Podcasts > The Mel Robbins Podcast > Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

By Stitcher

This episode of The Mel Robbins Podcast delves into the complex world of narcissistic personalities and how to navigate relationships with such individuals. Ramani Durvasula, a narcissism expert, joins Mel Robbins to distinguish narcissistic traits from mere inflated egos, providing insights into the lack of empathy, entitlement, and emotional dysregulation that characterize narcissists.

The pair offer practical strategies for dealing with narcissists, emphasizing the importance of setting internal boundaries, managing interactions strategically, and avoiding power struggles. They also explore the emotional toll of being around narcissists, especially within family dynamics, and the need for support and self-care when faced with their manipulative behaviors.

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Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

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Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

1-Page Summary

Identifying and understanding narcissistic personality traits

Experts like Ramani Durvasula and Mel Robbins distinguish narcissistic personality traits from simply having an inflated ego. Narcissists exhibit a constellation of traits like lack of empathy, entitlement, arrogance, grandiosity, need for admiration, and difficulty regulating emotions, per Durvasula. They differ from those with inflated egos, who can be superficially charming.

Strategies for dealing with narcissistic individuals

Attempting to set boundaries with narcissists often leads to more conflict, as they tend to disregard or undermine boundaries. Durvasula and Robbins advise setting internal boundaries instead of confronting them directly. Manage interactions strategically by anticipating narcissistic behaviors and disengage from power struggles to avoid their drama.

The impact of narcissistic relationships

Being around narcissists can leave you feeling drained and annoyed due to their self-absorption and lack of interest in others, Robbins observes. Durvasula highlights the toll of dealing with a narcissist's need for attention and emotional volatility, especially when children are involved and custody battles arise.

Durvasula warns of narcissistic parents using grandchildren for manipulation or adult children exploiting aging parents financially. She emphasizes radical acceptance - recognizing you cannot change the narcissist, only your response. Seek support and maintain boundaries to preserve your well-being.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While setting internal boundaries is useful, some experts may argue that external boundaries are also necessary and can be effective if enforced consistently and with the support of a therapist or support system.
  • The idea that setting boundaries with narcissists often leads to conflict might be too generalized; some individuals may have success with clear, firm boundaries.
  • The notion that inflated egos and narcissistic traits are distinct could be oversimplified; there may be a spectrum of behaviors with overlap between the two.
  • The advice to disengage from power struggles with narcissists might not always be feasible, especially in professional settings where one must engage with narcissistic individuals.
  • The impact of being around narcissists can vary greatly from person to person; some individuals may develop coping strategies that mitigate the feeling of being drained or annoyed.
  • The concept of radical acceptance might not be the best approach for everyone; some people may find that actively confronting or challenging the narcissistic behavior is more therapeutic or effective for them.
  • The recommendation to seek support and maintain boundaries, while generally sound, may not acknowledge the complexity and difficulty in doing so for some individuals, especially if the narcissist is a close family member or partner.
  • The characterization of narcissistic individuals as manipulative or exploitative may not account for the nuances of individual situations and could risk stigmatizing people with narcissistic personality disorder.

Actionables

  • Create a personal energy budget to manage interactions with challenging individuals by assigning a 'spend limit' of time and emotional energy for each encounter. This helps you decide in advance how much of your resources you're willing to invest in a conversation or relationship, much like a financial budget helps you manage your money. For example, decide that you'll only spend 15 minutes on a phone call with a person who tends to drain your energy, or allow yourself to engage in a difficult conversation only once a week.
  • Develop a 'narcissist interaction playbook' with scripted responses for common scenarios you face. This can help you maintain composure and boundaries without getting emotionally entangled. For instance, if you know a family member often boasts about their achievements to seek admiration, prepare a neutral response like, "That's interesting, I'm glad you feel proud of your work," which acknowledges their statement without feeding into the need for excessive admiration.
  • Use a 'relationship traffic light' system to evaluate and categorize your relationships based on how they affect your well-being. Green could represent healthy, reciprocal relationships; yellow for those that require caution and strong boundaries; and red for toxic relationships that might need to be limited or ended. This visual tool can help you quickly assess and make decisions about how to interact with different individuals in your life. For example, if a relationship is consistently marked red, it might be time to consider distancing yourself or seeking external support to navigate the relationship.

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Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

Identifying and understanding narcissistic personality traits

Experts like Ramani Durvasula and Mel Robbins delve into the nuances of narcissistic personality traits, distinguishing them from simply having an inflated ego and highlighting the potential for harm.

Narcissism is a rigid and predictable personality style, distinct from just having an inflated ego

Narcissists exhibit a constellation of traits including lack of empathy, entitlement, arrogance, grandiosity, need for admiration, and difficulty regulating emotions

Robbins describes individuals with narcissistic personality traits as those who tend to make everything about themselves. They might erupt or sulk when things don't go their way, stir trouble for attention, and generally lack interest in others unless they need something from them. Durvasula elaborates by explaining that narcissism is not solely about an inflated ego; it includes a spectrum of behaviors like variable empathy, entitlement, arrogance, grandiosity, the need for constant admiration and validation, a tendency to envy others, and a need for control. She notes that narcissism is a very predictable and rigid personality style, which contrasts with the variable nature of an inflated ego.

Recognizing the difference between someone who is merely annoying versus someone with a harmful narcissistic personality

Narcissists can be damaging and hurtful, while people with an inflated ego may simply be teddy bear-ish and superficially charming

Durvasula distinguishes between the annoying, yet ultimately benign, behaviors of someone with an inflated ego and the more dangerous and harmful patterns exhibited by narcissists. Those with inflated egos can still exhibit traits of sweetness and presence. In contrast, narcissists present a consistently harmful constellation of traits that defines their personality.

Durvasula provides insight into the narcissist's conceptualization of love, which t ...

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Identifying and understanding narcissistic personality traits

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Narcissists often view love as transactional, where they expect something in return for their affection. Their love can be intense but tends to be short-lived, as they may lose interest once their needs are met or if the relationship no longer serves them. This perspective on love can lead to unstable and tumultuous relationships characterized by a lack of genuine emotional connection and a focus on fulfilling their own desires.
  • Narcissism and psychopathy are distinct personality traits. Narcissists typically exhibit traits like lack of empathy, entitlement, and a need for admiration. Psychopaths, on the other hand, display cold, callous behavior, deceitfulness, and a lack of empathy and remorse. While narcissists may have insecurities and anxiety, psychopaths are characterized by a lack of emotional depth and a tendency towards calculated ...

Counterarguments

  • Narcissism can sometimes be misdiagnosed or over-applied to individuals who may simply have strong personalities or who are going through a difficult phase, rather than having a clinical personality disorder.
  • The concept of narcissism is culturally and socially influenced, and behaviors considered narcissistic in one culture may not be viewed the same way in another.
  • Some argue that certain narcissistic traits, like confidence and self-promotion, can be beneficial in moderation and are often necessary for success in competitive fields.
  • The distinction between narcissism and psychopathy is not always clear-cut, as there can be overlap in traits and behaviors, making it challenging to differentiate in practice.
  • The idea that narcissists cannot experience love in a long-term, companionate way may not hold true for all individuals with narcissistic traits; human emotions and relationships are complex and can't always be categorized neatly.
  • Labeling individuals as narcissists based on a set of traits can be stigmatizing and may overlook the underlying causes or co-occurring conditions that contribute to their behavior.
  • The rigidity of narcissistic personality style as described might be an oversimplification, as individuals with narcissistic traits can sometimes exhibit flexibility and adapt their behaviors in response to therapy or life changes.
  • The assertion that narcissists h ...

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Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

Strategies for dealing with narcissistic individuals

Engaging effectively with narcissists requires unconventional strategies focused on personal boundaries and well-being, rather than attempting to change the narcissist's behaviors.

Attempting to set boundaries with a narcissist is often futile and will only lead to more conflict

Setting boundaries with narcissistic individuals is typically ineffective and can create more problems, as Robbins likens to hugging a porcupine. Narcissists will often ignore or challenge the boundaries you establish, creating further friction, as seen in examples like a silent-treating, sullen mother or in post-separation abuse scenarios where legal battles become a tool for narcissists to control and punish their ex-partner.

Narcissists will frequently disregard or undermine any boundaries you try to establish

Durvasula notes that narcissists tend to target vulnerabilities, especially around issues they know you care about deeply, such as child custody. A listener experiences this when their mother first seems accepting of boundaries but then later rejects them.

The key is to set internal boundaries for yourself rather than directly confronting the narcissist

In response to a listener considering reopening communication with their narcissistic father after five years, Durvasula warns that the pattern of hurt is likely to continue. Instead of direct confrontation, Robbins and Durvasula advise setting internal boundaries. Durvasula offers the example of a woman who leveraged a custody agreement to create a favorable outcome for herself by expressing enthusiasm for her anticipated free time, flipping the power dynamic.

Anticipate the narcissist's behaviors and plan accordingly to protect your own well-being

Managing interactions strategically, such as not inviting a narcissist to events to avoid disruption or making reservations that don't require a full party to account for their possible late arrival, can help maintain one’s own peace of mind.

Disengage from power struggles and avoid getting drawn into the narcissist's drama

Recognize that a narcissist is unlikely to cha ...

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Strategies for dealing with narcissistic individuals

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While setting boundaries with narcissists can be challenging, it's not always futile; boundaries can be an important part of self-care and may sometimes be recognized by the narcissist, especially if enforced consistently and with consequences.
  • Narcissists may sometimes respect boundaries if they understand there's something in it for them or if the boundaries are enforced by an authority they recognize.
  • Direct confrontation with a narcissist can be necessary in certain situations, such as legal proceedings or when establishing clear rules in a professional setting, and can be done effectively with the right support and preparation.
  • Anticipating a narcissist's behavior can be seen as manipulative or dishonest, and it may not always be possible or healthy to plan one's life around another's potential actions.
  • Completely disengaging from power struggles can sometimes lead to the narcissist having undue influence or control, especially in situations where they have power or authority, l ...

Actionables

  • Develop a personal mantra to reinforce your internal boundaries when interacting with difficult individuals. Choose a phrase that resonates with your values and repeat it silently to yourself during challenging interactions. This can help maintain your composure and remind you of your commitment to self-care. For example, if someone is trying to draw you into an argument, you might repeat, "I choose peace over conflict," to keep your internal boundary strong.
  • Create a visual reminder of your well-being plan to anticipate and handle stressful encounters. Design a simple infographic or flowchart that outlines your responses to potential scenarios with a difficult person. Keep it on your phone or in your journal for quick reference. For instance, if you know a meeting with a certain individual might be trying, your chart could include steps like taking deep breaths, not responding to provocations, and having an exit strategy.
  • ...

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Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

The impact of narcissistic relationships on one's own well-being

Dealing with a narcissist in any type of relationship — be it a romantic partner, a family member, or someone in your daily life — can be extraordinarily challenging and have far-reaching effects on one’s own well-being.

Being in a relationship with a narcissist can be draining and leave you feeling annoyed or frustrated

It's commonly felt that being around a narcissist can leave you feeling drained and annoyed. Robbins mentions her own experiences of feeling this way when she has had to be around such individuals. Narcissists often make interactions all about themselves and display little interest in the lives or well-being of others. For example, Mel Robbins observes that narcissists are emotionally immature, tend to create distractions, and never ask about others’ lives, all of which show their lack of concern for anyone but themselves.

Dealing with a narcissist's constant need for attention, entitlement, and emotional volatility takes a toll

Ramani Durvasula discusses the significant emotional toll that being in a relationship with a rageful narcissist can take, particularly highlighting the challenges faced when children are involved and feel scared of the narcissistic parent. Such a relationship can be a constant battle, grappling with whether to endure the relationship for the child’s benefit or leave and face the challenges that come with custody arrangements. Additionally, mental health services, which are crucial for both the child and the non-narcissistic parent, can become more difficult to secure once divorced.

Further, the emotional weight of having a narcissistic mother who attempts to "punish" by cutting her children out of her life during disagreements adds to the draining nature of the relationship. This behavior is frustrating as it indicates the narcissist's desire to focus on her own needs over the well-being of her children.

Durvasula also relates her own feelings of sadness and isolation, which have led to a decrease in trust towards others, as a result of dealing with narcissists. She stresses ...

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The impact of narcissistic relationships on one's own well-being

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Narcissistic behavior can sometimes be misinterpreted, and what may seem like narcissism could be a person's coping mechanism for insecurity or past trauma.
  • Not all self-centered behavior is indicative of narcissistic personality disorder; some individuals may exhibit these traits without having the disorder.
  • The impact of a narcissistic relationship can vary greatly from person to person, and some individuals may find ways to manage the relationship without significant detriment to their well-being.
  • It's possible for people with narcissistic tendencies to change over time, especially with therapy and a genuine desire to improve their relationships.
  • The perception of narcissists moving on quickly and finding happiness in new relationships may not always be accurate, as they could be facing similar challenges in their new relationships.
  • Some individuals may have the resilience or support systems in place to cope with the challenges of a narcissistic relationship without experiencing long-term negative effects.
  • The idea that narcissists perform love for social approval may not always hold true; some may genuinely attempt to connect but struggle with emotional ...

Actionables

  • Create a personal energy budget to manage interactions with high-maintenance individuals by setting clear boundaries on the time and emotional resources you're willing to invest in them. Think of your energy as a finite resource, like money, and decide in advance how much you're willing to "spend" on someone who may not reciprocate. For example, you might decide to only meet in group settings or limit one-on-one time to a specific duration.
  • Develop a self-care routine that includes activities to recharge after emotionally taxing encounters, such as mindfulness, exercise, or a hobby that brings you joy. After an interaction with a person who leaves you feeling drained, engage in an activity that helps you recover your energy and emotional balance. For instance, if you enjoy painting, set aside time to work on a canvas after a challenging meeting.
  • Keep a private journal to document your feelings and experiences in rela ...

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Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)

Navigating narcissistic relationships with family members

Navigating relationships with narcissistic family members can be incredibly challenging, especially when they employ manipulative tactics involving the younger generation or attempt to exploit members financially.

When a parent or adult child is narcissistic, they may use the grandchildren as leverage for manipulation and control

Durvasula describes scenarios where narcissistic individuals may use children or grandchildren as leverage in manipulative behavior. For instance, they may use custody disagreements to punish another parent or require two-party consent for mental health services post-divorce. Grandparents may even face situations where their adult children use the connection to the grandchildren as a tool for manipulation, exerting control through strategies like the silent treatment or blame.

Radical acceptance is key - recognize that you cannot change the narcissist, only your own response

Key to navigating this contentious relationship is radical acceptance, focusing on one's own responses rather than attempting to change the behavior of the narcissist. A person may have to accept that they won't see their grandchildren at all times and decide on the non-negotiable events they are willing to 'take the fight' for. Managing interaction with a narcissistic child can sometimes involve a "ritualistic dance" to maintain access to grandchildren. Robbins and Durvasula emphasize that understanding the situation as unchangeable allows one to act according to their values and better protect themselves from emotional harm.

If a narcissistic family member is introducing a new partner, gently remind the family member of their authentic self and interests

When dealing with a family member who may be in a relationship with a narcissist, Durvasula recommends a gentle approach. Rather than confronting the child directly about their partner's potential narcissism, one should refer to positive patterns from the child's past and check-in on their well-being without criticizing the partner. This "breaking the shelf" method reminds the family member of who they were before the relationship and may help them see changes in themselves without feeling alienated from their relatives.

Protect yourself financially and legally if dealing with an aging narcissistic parent who may attempt to exploit you

Du ...

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Navigating narcissistic relationships with family members

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • "Radical acceptance" is a concept from dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) that involves fully accepting reality without judgment or resistance, even if it is difficult or painful. It means acknowledging and embracing things as they are, rather than fighting against them. This approach encourages individuals to let go of the struggle against circumstances they cannot change and focus on responding effectively to the situation. Radical acceptance promotes mindfulness, emotional regulation, and the ability to make choices aligned with personal values.
  • A "ritualistic dance" in the context of dealing with narcissistic family members involves a strategic and often repetitive process of interacting with the narcissistic individual to maintain access to grandchildren. It may entail carefully navigating conversations and situations to ensure continued contact with the grandchildren while managing the challenging dynamics of the relationship. This term suggests a deliberate and cautious approach to communication and behavior to balance the need for connection with the grandchildren and the complexities of dealing with a narcissistic family member. The goal is to establish boundaries and protect oneself emotionally while still engaging with the family member to maintain a relationship with the grandchildren.
  • When the text mentions adopting a professional mindset akin to a nurse dealing with an abusive patient, it is suggesting approaching the situation with a level of detachment and professionalism similar to how a nurse might handle a difficult patient. This means maintaining boundaries, staying focused on providing care or support, and not taking the abusive behavior personally. It emphasizes the need to prioritize self-care, seek su ...

Counterarguments

  • While radical acceptance is important, it may not always be the best approach for everyone; some individuals may find that setting firm boundaries or seeking legal action is more effective for their situation.
  • Focusing solely on changing one's own response to a narcissist's behavior might not address the root of the problem and could potentially enable the narcissist's behavior if not paired with appropriate boundaries and consequences.
  • The advice to protect oneself financially and legally from aging narcissistic parents could be seen as overly cautious or mistrustful, and it may not take into account the complexity of family dynamics and the potential for reconciliation or positive change.
  • The suggestion to remind family members of their authentic self when they introduce a new partner could be perceived as intrusive or patronizing, and it may not respect the family member's autonomy or the validity of their choices in partners.
  • Seeking support and maintaining boundaries is sound advice, but it may not be sufficient for a ...

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