In this episode of Jocko Podcast, Vietnam War veterans Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal share their experiences as Navy SEALs. They discuss their different paths to joining the SEALs—Boyhan through the Naval Academy and Kuykendal after a chance encounter with SEAL instructors—and detail how SEAL teams operated in enemy territory during the Vietnam War, including their methods for overcoming equipment shortages and building intelligence networks.
The conversation explores the autonomy SEAL commanders had in planning and executing missions, as well as the extensive training that set them apart from other military units. Boyhan and Kuykendal also describe their transitions to civilian life after military service, with Boyhan managing New York's largest commercial hog operation and Kuykendal building a successful business, both applying the resilience and adaptability they developed as SEALs.

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Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal took distinctly different paths to join the Navy SEALs. Boyhan, influenced by his father's military background, pursued a career at the Naval Academy with initial aspirations to become a fighter pilot. After being dismissed from the pilot program, he was drawn to the SEALs by the prospect of double hazardous duty pay and an escape from traditional shipboard duty.
In contrast, Kuykendal's journey began with an impulsive decision following a difficult breakup. Initially intending to join the Marines, he ended up in the Navy simply because the Marine recruiter was unavailable. His introduction to the SEALs came by chance when SEAL instructors presented a film during his training.
Operating deep in enemy territory with limited support, SEAL teams demonstrated remarkable adaptability and combat effectiveness. Boyhan describes how his teams overcame equipment and supply shortages through resourceful tactics, from procuring essential supplies to modifying gear for better combat suitability. The teams navigated challenging terrain, set up hasty landing zones, and maintained operational effectiveness despite limited air support.
Kuykendal highlights how their extensive training, including rigorous practice scenarios like rescuing wounded soldiers under helicopter fire, set them apart from conscripted soldiers. The teams carried heavy firepower and demonstrated exceptional combat effectiveness in their operations against Viet Cong infrastructure.
SEAL commanders enjoyed significant autonomy in their operations, as noted by Jocko Willink, who contrasts this with the more structured approach of other military branches. Boyhan and Kuykendal exercised considerable freedom in strategic planning and execution, often adapting plans based on terrain and intelligence.
The teams built strong intelligence networks, working closely with local guides and interpreters. Their success relied heavily on rigorous training, discipline, and cohesion, with platoons often pushing for additional training exercises over breaks.
The Vietnam-era SEALs built a fearsome reputation that continues to inspire future generations. According to Boyhan, detailed records of operations were kept on index cards, documenting their extensive combat history. Jocko Willink expresses gratitude for the reputation established by these Vietnam-era SEALs, acknowledging how it benefited future generations of SEALs.
After their military service, both men found success in civilian life while maintaining their SEAL values. Boyhan managed New York's largest commercial hog operation before working with Stone Hearth pizza ovens. Kuykendal, despite early financial difficulties, built a successful business and later became involved in organizing SEAL reunions. Both men's post-military careers demonstrate the lasting impact of their SEAL training, particularly in terms of resilience and adaptability.
1-Page Summary
Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal both arrived at the SEAL teams through vastly different paths marked by personal aspiration and impulsive decisions.
Boyhan, influenced by his father's experiences in the merchant marine and the army, followed his father's advice to join the Navy, seeking a cleaner and more comfortable living. Heeding this advice, Boyhan researched military academies, ultimately choosing the Naval Academy. Aiming to become a fighter pilot, he entered the jet pipeline and was close to completing his training until an accident during a landing broke the squadron's safety record, leading to his dismissal from the program.
Kuykendal, on the other hand, made a sudden decision to join the Navy after a painful breakup with his girlfriend. His choice was so impulsive that he intended to become a Marine but switched to the Navy simply because the Marine recruiter was out to lunch. Kuykendal's familiarity with the idea of military service was formed by his father's experiences as a commanding officer during World War II, though he himself had no knowledge of SEAL teams when he joined. His awareness of the SEALs came by chance when SEAL instructors presented a film during his A school, sparking his interest and leading him to pass a screening test.
The ...
Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal: Backgrounds and Journeys To Becoming Navy Seals
Seal Teams demonstrated remarkable adaptability and combat effectiveness during the Vietnam War, often facing limited support while infiltrating deep into enemy territory. Tom Boyhan's experiences breaking in new platoons and participating in operations underscore the ingenuity and resilience required in such conditions.
Tom Boyhan and his Seal Teams overcame shortages of food, appropriate boats, and other equipment by employing resourceful tactics. From stealing supplies to distracting chow hall workers to procure essentials like mayonnaise and peanut butter, Boyhan's team exhibited the ability to improvise under challenging circumstances. They borrowed small skimmers and engaged in dangerous operations like extracting key prisoners and initiating ambushes on Viet Cong leaders, despite being in a "fantasy world" as described by Boyhan, with reduced air support and limited understanding from allied forces.
While stationed in makeshift "porta campers" and dealing with the absence of swift boats or PBRs (Patrol Boat, River), Boyhan and fellow Seal Hal Kuykendal modified their gear for better suitability in the demanding combat situations they faced, such as opting for jeans over standard BDU pants and deliberately maneuvering in streams to evade booby traps.
Platoons coped with difficult terrain, like navigating through quarter-mile mud flats from the Gulf of Thailand to reach shorelines, and displayed tactical adaptability by setting up hasty landing zones (LZs) for swift actions. Boyhan recounted towing an IBS (Inflatable Boat, Small) while operating near enemy lines, showcasing an unwavering determination to succeed in missions.
The platoons overcame various operational hurdles, like dealing with tidal booby trap challenges during a rescue operation which relied on a model that Mr. Locke, an interpreter, had built from intel. With often sketchy air support, they had to be inventive, facing intense combat, navigating betraying mud conditions, and sometimes having to carry wounded teammates while under fire.
Despite logistical and support difficulties, Seal Teams achieved remarkable feats of combat effectiveness. This prowess was demonstrated through precise and successful operations, such as ambushes and direct combat with VC, leading to the capture of valuable intelligence.
The extensive training Seals received was a key factor in their effectiveness and resilience. Hal Kuykendal highlights their rigorous practice in scenarios like rescuing wounded soldiers under helicopter fire, contrasting with the limited training of conscripted soldiers dep ...
Seal Teams' Training, Preparation, and Combat in Vietnam War
During the Vietnam War, the leadership and operations of SEAL platoons were marked by significant autonomy and strategic agility, as recounted by SEAL commanders such as Boyhan and Kuykendal.
Both Boyhan and Kuykendal were given extensive latitude to make on-the-spot decisions and adapt to the rapidly changing situations they encountered during their missions in Vietnam.
Boyhan exercised considerable autonomy in strategizing and executing missions, often adjusting plans due to terrain or operational intelligence. For instance, he changed the approach to an operation due to muddy conditions and the risk of being exposed in daylight. Autonomy was also apparent in Boyhan's ability to choose team members and in his collaboration with experienced enlisted personnel, such as Barry Enoch. This autonomy extended to his approach to logistics, as he demonstrated when borrowing boats from the Vietnamese Navy under his own initiative.
Jocko Willink emphasizes this autonomy, contrasting it with the army or Marine Corps where specific missions are assigned. SEAL team commanders like Boyhan enjoyed a high degree of trust and were even told to "just go do it and stay out of my hair" by operational commanders, which highlights the high level of trust and independence they were granted.
Boyhan and Kuykendal used local guides and sources to acquire critical enemy intelligence and plan their operations. Kuykendal's use of an interpreter during operations suggests local personnel played a role in assisting SEAL teams. The SEAL teams even built their own intelligence network and worked closely with agents, such as Mr. Locke, who gathered actionable information on VC infrastructure from defectors. The intelligence collected, whether from guides, captured documents, or direct reconnaissance, was indispensable in their high-contact success rates.
The SEAL platoons, including those led by Boyhan and Kuykendal, were exemplars of discipline and cohesion, owing largely to their rigorous training and determination to exceed standard operational expectations.
Kuykendal's comfort in calling for fire and Boyhan's tactical acumen in setting up classic ambushes and making critical decisions under fire reflects comprehensive training and preparedness. The platoons would push for extra training iterations, preferring additional exercises over breaks. As Boyhan mentioned, his team had ...
Leadership and Operations of Seal Platoons in Vietnam
Vietnam-era Seal teams are recognized for their significant contributions to the proud history and feared reputation of the Seal teams that inspire future generations of warriors.
Tom Boyhan revealed that detailed records of SEAL operations in Vietnam were kept on 3x5 index cards. Including a barn dance number for each operation, these cards indicated the organization and tracking of SEAL activities.
SEAL Team One, Charlie Platoon, established a combat record in Vietnam that contributed to their fearsome reputation, remembered and praised by people like Barry, as conveyed by Jocko Willink. Willink himself expresses pride and gratitude, acknowledging the reputation built by the Vietnam-era SEALs that his generation of SEALs benefitted from.
Their exploits are considered legendary, as seen through the actions of Chief Petty Officer Enoch and others whose leadership in combat situations contributed to the teams' revered reputation. Boyhan's description of the SEALs' losses, such as a helicopter crash, underscores the brotherhood within the small community and the depth of their sacrifices.
Boyhan also emphasized the collective effort of Charlie Platoon's performance in combat operations, memorializing their collective effort and sacrifices. While there is no specific information provided about SEAL combat exploits and sacrifices being memorialized, the reverence for these actions is implicit in the respect and awe they command among professionals like Willink.
Barry's decision-making a ...
Legacy and Reputation of Vietnam-Era Seal Teams
Former SEAL team members Boyhan and Kuykendal have embodied the core values of resilience, adaptability, and service in their post-military careers with remarkable success.
Both Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal have reflected on their transitions from military service to civilian life with various career endeavors that showcase their ongoing commitment to service.
Boyhan transitioned to civilian life by completing a cross-country trip and hiking the Pacific Crest Trail. His intent to become a veterinarian changed after being deemed too old at 31 for admission to Cornell. He managed the largest commercial hog operation in New York State for 15 years, and then shifted his career to work at a company that manufactured Stone Hearth pizza ovens. Boyhan also enjoyed adventures such as packing with llamas and another extensive hike with his wife.
Kuykendal, after enduring severe financial difficulties due to soaring interest rates in the late 1970s, rebounded to pay off his debts. He later started a successful business in 1984, attesting his resilience and adaptability. Jocko Willink, host of the discussed podcast, acknowledges Kuykendal's entrepreneurial success, implying that Kuykendal is modest about his achievements.
Reflecting the close-knit nature of the SEAL community, Boyhan and Kuykendal, alongside their comrades, remained interconnected after their military service.
Kuykendal opened up about his life after the SEAL teams, describing his "several crash and burns" and his ultimately successful career trajectory. The SEAL training proved to be influential throughout his life, as it played a crucial role in his ability to overcome challenges. The training instilled in them by Captain Shibley, a respected leader as Kuykendal recounts, was instrumental in their post-service lives.
Kuykendal took on the responsibility of hosting SEAL reunions after a comrade had to stop due to family illness. He managed to sustain this tradition by moving the event to various locations, eventually joining the board that organized the reunions now incorporated into the "spouse's dinner" of the old frogs and seals.
Moreover, museum involvement demonstrates their desire to preserve history and honor service. Kuykendal speaks of ...
Speakers' Lives and Careers After Military Service
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