Podcasts > Jocko Podcast > 512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

By Jocko DEFCOR Network

In this episode of Jocko Podcast, Vietnam War veterans Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal share their experiences as Navy SEALs. They discuss their different paths to joining the SEALs—Boyhan through the Naval Academy and Kuykendal after a chance encounter with SEAL instructors—and detail how SEAL teams operated in enemy territory during the Vietnam War, including their methods for overcoming equipment shortages and building intelligence networks.

The conversation explores the autonomy SEAL commanders had in planning and executing missions, as well as the extensive training that set them apart from other military units. Boyhan and Kuykendal also describe their transitions to civilian life after military service, with Boyhan managing New York's largest commercial hog operation and Kuykendal building a successful business, both applying the resilience and adaptability they developed as SEALs.

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512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

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512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

1-Page Summary

Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal: Backgrounds and Journeys To Becoming Navy Seals

Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal took distinctly different paths to join the Navy SEALs. Boyhan, influenced by his father's military background, pursued a career at the Naval Academy with initial aspirations to become a fighter pilot. After being dismissed from the pilot program, he was drawn to the SEALs by the prospect of double hazardous duty pay and an escape from traditional shipboard duty.

In contrast, Kuykendal's journey began with an impulsive decision following a difficult breakup. Initially intending to join the Marines, he ended up in the Navy simply because the Marine recruiter was unavailable. His introduction to the SEALs came by chance when SEAL instructors presented a film during his training.

SEAL Teams' Training, Preparation, and Combat in Vietnam War

Operating deep in enemy territory with limited support, SEAL teams demonstrated remarkable adaptability and combat effectiveness. Boyhan describes how his teams overcame equipment and supply shortages through resourceful tactics, from procuring essential supplies to modifying gear for better combat suitability. The teams navigated challenging terrain, set up hasty landing zones, and maintained operational effectiveness despite limited air support.

Kuykendal highlights how their extensive training, including rigorous practice scenarios like rescuing wounded soldiers under helicopter fire, set them apart from conscripted soldiers. The teams carried heavy firepower and demonstrated exceptional combat effectiveness in their operations against Viet Cong infrastructure.

Leadership and Operations of SEAL Platoons in Vietnam

SEAL commanders enjoyed significant autonomy in their operations, as noted by Jocko Willink, who contrasts this with the more structured approach of other military branches. Boyhan and Kuykendal exercised considerable freedom in strategic planning and execution, often adapting plans based on terrain and intelligence.

The teams built strong intelligence networks, working closely with local guides and interpreters. Their success relied heavily on rigorous training, discipline, and cohesion, with platoons often pushing for additional training exercises over breaks.

Legacy and Reputation of Vietnam-Era SEAL Teams

The Vietnam-era SEALs built a fearsome reputation that continues to inspire future generations. According to Boyhan, detailed records of operations were kept on index cards, documenting their extensive combat history. Jocko Willink expresses gratitude for the reputation established by these Vietnam-era SEALs, acknowledging how it benefited future generations of SEALs.

Speakers' Lives and Careers After Military Service

After their military service, both men found success in civilian life while maintaining their SEAL values. Boyhan managed New York's largest commercial hog operation before working with Stone Hearth pizza ovens. Kuykendal, despite early financial difficulties, built a successful business and later became involved in organizing SEAL reunions. Both men's post-military careers demonstrate the lasting impact of their SEAL training, particularly in terms of resilience and adaptability.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can reflect on your own life decisions by journaling about pivotal moments, much like the unexpected paths that led Boyhan and Kuykendal to the SEALs. Write down significant choices you've made, their outcomes, and how they've shaped your current situation, which can provide insight into your decision-making patterns and potential areas for personal growth.
  • Develop adaptability by setting up a "resourcefulness challenge" for yourself, similar to how SEAL teams overcame equipment shortages. For one week, limit yourself to using only a subset of your usual resources to complete daily tasks, encouraging creative problem-solving and reducing reliance on convenience.
  • Enhance your personal discipline by adopting a rigorous training routine in an area you wish to improve, drawing inspiration from the SEAL teams' extensive practice scenarios. Choose a skill, such as public speaking, coding, or a new language, and commit to daily, structured practice sessions that progressively increase in difficulty to build proficiency and resilience.

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512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal: Backgrounds and Journeys To Becoming Navy Seals

Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal both arrived at the SEAL teams through vastly different paths marked by personal aspiration and impulsive decisions.

Boyhan's Navy Path Encouraged by Father; Kuykendal's Enlistment Was Impulsive

Boyhan Pursued a Pilot Career At the Naval Academy; Kuykendal, Unaware of Seal Teams, Grew Up In Texas

Boyhan, influenced by his father's experiences in the merchant marine and the army, followed his father's advice to join the Navy, seeking a cleaner and more comfortable living. Heeding this advice, Boyhan researched military academies, ultimately choosing the Naval Academy. Aiming to become a fighter pilot, he entered the jet pipeline and was close to completing his training until an accident during a landing broke the squadron's safety record, leading to his dismissal from the program.

Kuykendal, on the other hand, made a sudden decision to join the Navy after a painful breakup with his girlfriend. His choice was so impulsive that he intended to become a Marine but switched to the Navy simply because the Marine recruiter was out to lunch. Kuykendal's familiarity with the idea of military service was formed by his father's experiences as a commanding officer during World War II, though he himself had no knowledge of SEAL teams when he joined. His awareness of the SEALs came by chance when SEAL instructors presented a film during his A school, sparking his interest and leading him to pass a screening test.

Attracted to SEAL Teams For Hazard Pay and Escape From Traditional Navy Duty

The ...

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Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal: Backgrounds and Journeys To Becoming Navy Seals

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • Reflect on your own life-changing decisions by journaling to understand their origins and impacts. Write down any major decisions you've made impulsively or after significant life events, similar to how Kuykendal joined the Navy post-breakup. Assess how these decisions have shaped your current situation and what you've learned from them.
  • Explore new opportunities by setting up informational interviews with professionals in fields you're curious about. If you're drawn to a particular career or lifestyle, as Boyhan was to the SEALs for financial and lifestyle reasons, reach out to individuals already in those roles. Ask them about the pros and cons, and what day-to-day life is truly like, to gain a better understanding of whether it might suit you.
  • ...

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512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

Seal Teams' Training, Preparation, and Combat in Vietnam War

Seal Teams in Vietnam Faced Challenges With Limited Support, Operating Deep In Enemy Territory

Seal Teams demonstrated remarkable adaptability and combat effectiveness during the Vietnam War, often facing limited support while infiltrating deep into enemy territory. Tom Boyhan's experiences breaking in new platoons and participating in operations underscore the ingenuity and resilience required in such conditions.

Seal Platoons Thrived On Ingenuity Amidst Food, Boat, and Equipment Shortages

Tom Boyhan and his Seal Teams overcame shortages of food, appropriate boats, and other equipment by employing resourceful tactics. From stealing supplies to distracting chow hall workers to procure essentials like mayonnaise and peanut butter, Boyhan's team exhibited the ability to improvise under challenging circumstances. They borrowed small skimmers and engaged in dangerous operations like extracting key prisoners and initiating ambushes on Viet Cong leaders, despite being in a "fantasy world" as described by Boyhan, with reduced air support and limited understanding from allied forces.

While stationed in makeshift "porta campers" and dealing with the absence of swift boats or PBRs (Patrol Boat, River), Boyhan and fellow Seal Hal Kuykendal modified their gear for better suitability in the demanding combat situations they faced, such as opting for jeans over standard BDU pants and deliberately maneuvering in streams to evade booby traps.

Platoons coped with difficult terrain, like navigating through quarter-mile mud flats from the Gulf of Thailand to reach shorelines, and displayed tactical adaptability by setting up hasty landing zones (LZs) for swift actions. Boyhan recounted towing an IBS (Inflatable Boat, Small) while operating near enemy lines, showcasing an unwavering determination to succeed in missions.

The platoons overcame various operational hurdles, like dealing with tidal booby trap challenges during a rescue operation which relied on a model that Mr. Locke, an interpreter, had built from intel. With often sketchy air support, they had to be inventive, facing intense combat, navigating betraying mud conditions, and sometimes having to carry wounded teammates while under fire.

Seals Overcome Obstacles, Show Exceptional Combat Effectiveness

Despite logistical and support difficulties, Seal Teams achieved remarkable feats of combat effectiveness. This prowess was demonstrated through precise and successful operations, such as ambushes and direct combat with VC, leading to the capture of valuable intelligence.

The extensive training Seals received was a key factor in their effectiveness and resilience. Hal Kuykendal highlights their rigorous practice in scenarios like rescuing wounded soldiers under helicopter fire, contrasting with the limited training of conscripted soldiers dep ...

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Seal Teams' Training, Preparation, and Combat in Vietnam War

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can enhance problem-solving skills by practicing "survival weekends" where you limit resources and simulate challenging scenarios. For example, plan a camping trip with minimal supplies and create objectives that require creative solutions, like building a shelter with natural materials or navigating without a compass.
  • Develop adaptability by engaging in role-playing games that require tactical decision-making. Create a game with friends where each person must adapt to new rules or challenges that are introduced at random intervals, fostering the ability to think on your feet and adjust strategies quickly.
  • Improve your resourcefulness by setting up a "blackout box challenge" at home. ...

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512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

Leadership and Operations of Seal Platoons in Vietnam

During the Vietnam War, the leadership and operations of SEAL platoons were marked by significant autonomy and strategic agility, as recounted by SEAL commanders such as Boyhan and Kuykendal.

Autonomy Granted to Seal Commanders Boyhan and Kuykendal

Both Boyhan and Kuykendal were given extensive latitude to make on-the-spot decisions and adapt to the rapidly changing situations they encountered during their missions in Vietnam.

Autonomy in Strategy and Execution

Boyhan exercised considerable autonomy in strategizing and executing missions, often adjusting plans due to terrain or operational intelligence. For instance, he changed the approach to an operation due to muddy conditions and the risk of being exposed in daylight. Autonomy was also apparent in Boyhan's ability to choose team members and in his collaboration with experienced enlisted personnel, such as Barry Enoch. This autonomy extended to his approach to logistics, as he demonstrated when borrowing boats from the Vietnamese Navy under his own initiative.

Jocko Willink emphasizes this autonomy, contrasting it with the army or Marine Corps where specific missions are assigned. SEAL team commanders like Boyhan enjoyed a high degree of trust and were even told to "just go do it and stay out of my hair" by operational commanders, which highlights the high level of trust and independence they were granted.

Utilizing Local Intelligence

Boyhan and Kuykendal used local guides and sources to acquire critical enemy intelligence and plan their operations. Kuykendal's use of an interpreter during operations suggests local personnel played a role in assisting SEAL teams. The SEAL teams even built their own intelligence network and worked closely with agents, such as Mr. Locke, who gathered actionable information on VC infrastructure from defectors. The intelligence collected, whether from guides, captured documents, or direct reconnaissance, was indispensable in their high-contact success rates.

Training, Discipline, and Cohesion Vital in Seal Platoons For Success

The SEAL platoons, including those led by Boyhan and Kuykendal, were exemplars of discipline and cohesion, owing largely to their rigorous training and determination to exceed standard operational expectations.

Training and Combat Preparedness

Kuykendal's comfort in calling for fire and Boyhan's tactical acumen in setting up classic ambushes and making critical decisions under fire reflects comprehensive training and preparedness. The platoons would push for extra training iterations, preferring additional exercises over breaks. As Boyhan mentioned, his team had ...

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Leadership and Operations of Seal Platoons in Vietnam

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The autonomy granted to SEAL commanders, while beneficial in many respects, could potentially lead to a lack of cohesion with larger military strategies or create conflicts with other units not privy to the SEALs' operational independence.
  • Relying heavily on local intelligence can sometimes be a double-edged sword, as it may expose SEAL teams to misinformation or manipulation by enemy sympathizers.
  • The emphasis on rigorous training and discipline, while generally positive, might not fully account for the psychological toll and stress on SEAL team members, which could affect long-term operational effectiveness and personal well-being.
  • The narrative may overemphasize the success of SEAL operations without adequately addressing instances where high autonomy and creative tactics did not yield the desired outcomes or led to unforeseen complications.
  • The focus ...

Actionables

  • You can enhance decision-making skills by setting up a "choose your own adventure" game with friends or family, where each person leads a scenario and others face the consequences of their decisions. This game can mimic the autonomy in decision-making by allowing the leader to make choices on strategy, execution, and team roles, while others provide feedback on the outcomes.
  • Develop a habit of gathering 'local intelligence' by starting a neighborhood information exchange group. This could be a social media group or a regular meetup where neighbors share insights about community events, safety concerns, and local businesses, mirroring the importance of local intelligence for SEAL teams.
  • F ...

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512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

Legacy and Reputation of Vietnam-Era Seal Teams

Vietnam-era Seal teams are recognized for their significant contributions to the proud history and feared reputation of the Seal teams that inspire future generations of warriors.

Seal Teams in Vietnam Built a Fearsome Reputation Inspiring Future Generations

Seal Combat Exploits and Sacrifices Memorialized

Tom Boyhan revealed that detailed records of SEAL operations in Vietnam were kept on 3x5 index cards. Including a barn dance number for each operation, these cards indicated the organization and tracking of SEAL activities.

SEAL Team One, Charlie Platoon, established a combat record in Vietnam that contributed to their fearsome reputation, remembered and praised by people like Barry, as conveyed by Jocko Willink. Willink himself expresses pride and gratitude, acknowledging the reputation built by the Vietnam-era SEALs that his generation of SEALs benefitted from.

Their exploits are considered legendary, as seen through the actions of Chief Petty Officer Enoch and others whose leadership in combat situations contributed to the teams' revered reputation. Boyhan's description of the SEALs' losses, such as a helicopter crash, underscores the brotherhood within the small community and the depth of their sacrifices.

Boyhan also emphasized the collective effort of Charlie Platoon's performance in combat operations, memorializing their collective effort and sacrifices. While there is no specific information provided about SEAL combat exploits and sacrifices being memorialized, the reverence for these actions is implicit in the respect and awe they command among professionals like Willink.

Vietnam-Era Seals Exemplified Leadership, Adaptability, and Mission Commitment as Enduring Seal Principles

Barry's decision-making a ...

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Legacy and Reputation of Vietnam-Era Seal Teams

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Jocko Willink is a former Navy SEAL officer, author, and podcaster known for his leadership philosophy and teachings based on his military experience. In the context of Vietnam-era SEAL teams, Willink often speaks about the legacy and reputation established by those teams, highlighting their contributions and sacrifices that have influenced subsequent generations of SEALs. Willink's message typically emphasizes the respect and gratitude he holds for the Vietnam-era SEALs, acknowledging their pivotal role in shaping the ethos and standards of the SEAL community.
  • The ethos mentioned reflects the deep bond and reliance among SEAL team members. ...

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512: Into the Delta. Charlie Platoon, SEAL Missions in Vietnam. With Hal Kuykendal and Tom Boyhan

Speakers' Lives and Careers After Military Service

Former SEAL team members Boyhan and Kuykendal have embodied the core values of resilience, adaptability, and service in their post-military careers with remarkable success.

Post-Vietnam Paths: Boyhan in Farming & Business, Kuykendal, Entrepreneurial Success

Both Tom Boyhan and Hal Kuykendal have reflected on their transitions from military service to civilian life with various career endeavors that showcase their ongoing commitment to service.

Boyhan transitioned to civilian life by completing a cross-country trip and hiking the Pacific Crest Trail. His intent to become a veterinarian changed after being deemed too old at 31 for admission to Cornell. He managed the largest commercial hog operation in New York State for 15 years, and then shifted his career to work at a company that manufactured Stone Hearth pizza ovens. Boyhan also enjoyed adventures such as packing with llamas and another extensive hike with his wife.

Kuykendal, after enduring severe financial difficulties due to soaring interest rates in the late 1970s, rebounded to pay off his debts. He later started a successful business in 1984, attesting his resilience and adaptability. Jocko Willink, host of the discussed podcast, acknowledges Kuykendal's entrepreneurial success, implying that Kuykendal is modest about his achievements.

Seal Community Men: Reunions, Museum Support, Training's Impact on Lives and Careers

Reflecting the close-knit nature of the SEAL community, Boyhan and Kuykendal, alongside their comrades, remained interconnected after their military service.

Kuykendal opened up about his life after the SEAL teams, describing his "several crash and burns" and his ultimately successful career trajectory. The SEAL training proved to be influential throughout his life, as it played a crucial role in his ability to overcome challenges. The training instilled in them by Captain Shibley, a respected leader as Kuykendal recounts, was instrumental in their post-service lives.

Kuykendal took on the responsibility of hosting SEAL reunions after a comrade had to stop due to family illness. He managed to sustain this tradition by moving the event to various locations, eventually joining the board that organized the reunions now incorporated into the "spouse's dinner" of the old frogs and seals.

Moreover, museum involvement demonstrates their desire to preserve history and honor service. Kuykendal speaks of ...

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Speakers' Lives and Careers After Military Service

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can start a "resilience journal" to document and reflect on daily challenges and your responses to them. By keeping track of situations that require adaptability, you'll become more aware of your resilience over time. For example, if you encounter a setback at work, write down the problem, your initial reaction, and the steps you took to overcome it. This practice can help you identify patterns in your behavior and encourage a mindset of continuous improvement.
  • Create a personal "adaptability plan" for unexpected life changes, similar to how a business might have a contingency plan. Start by identifying potential life changes or challenges you might face, such as a job loss or a move to a new city. Then, outline actionable steps you would take to adapt to these situations, such as updating your resume or researching new communities. Having a plan in place can reduce anxiety about the unknown and help you feel more prepared to handle change.
  • Volunteer for a community service project that pushes you ...

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