In this Jocko Podcast episode, Ben Sledge shares his journey from a religious upbringing in 1980s Oklahoma through his military service in Afghanistan and Iraq. As a psychological operations specialist, Sledge worked alongside infantry units in combat zones, including the particularly dangerous area of Ramadi. His experiences during deployment presented numerous challenges, from navigating complex military operations to confronting moral dilemmas in combat situations.
The discussion covers Sledge's struggles with PTSD, depression, and substance abuse after returning to civilian life, and his path to recovery through professional help and spiritual guidance. Through writing his memoir and working with other veterans, Sledge found purpose in supporting fellow service members, emphasizing the military principle of never leaving anyone behind. The episode explores themes of belonging, faith, mental health, and the importance of community in veterans' lives.

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Ben Sledge grew up in 1980s Tulsa, Oklahoma, in a religious family with military roots. His father, a male nurse working in an AIDS ward, faced significant ostracism from their church community during the epidemic. This early exposure to discrimination shaped Ben's worldview. As a teenager, Ben's interest in metal music clashed with his church's conservative views during the Satanic Panic, leading to experiences like forced CD burnings at youth camps. These early experiences of being an outsider influenced his ongoing quest for belonging and acceptance.
Ben joined the Army Reserves in 1999, serving in a psychological operations (PsyOps) unit. His deployment to Afghanistan involved diplomatic work, rebuilding efforts, and intelligence gathering while embedded with various infantry units. Ben faced numerous dangerous situations and moral dilemmas, particularly under the leadership of "Major Death Wish." His service in Ramadi, Iraq, was notably intense, with the area described as a "meat grinder" due to high violence levels and IED threats. Working alongside Marines under the call sign "Berserker," Ben witnessed the challenging dynamics between military operations and civilian safety.
Upon returning from service, Ben struggled with PTSD, depression, and substance abuse. He engaged in reckless behavior and misused his GI Bill funds for excessive partying. His mental health deteriorated to the point of a suicide attempt, but the realization that giving up would mean letting his enemies win helped him find resilience. With support from Dr. Kent Corso and loved ones, Ben eventually sought professional help, overcoming his belief that "real men don't do counseling."
Through counseling and spiritual exploration, Ben found his way back to faith, guided by Father Rochefort, a Marine Corps chaplain. Writing his memoir, "Where Cowards Go to Die," served as a therapeutic outlet for processing his wartime experiences. Ben now mentors veterans, speaks on leadership and mental health, and has started a business to help veterans share their stories.
Ben credits mentors like his friend Gonzo and Father Rochefort for guiding him through his darkest periods. Their examples of compassionate leadership significantly influenced his development. Today, Ben actively supports other veterans, regularly checking on his military community and sharing his experiences to offer hope and guidance. He emphasizes the warrior ethos of never leaving a fallen comrade behind, demonstrating this through his ongoing commitment to veteran support and mentorship.
1-Page Summary
Ben Sledge’s early life and family experiences, particularly his upbringing in 1980s Tulsa, Oklahoma, deeply influenced his worldview and his search for belonging.
Ben was born into a religious family, with a military history tracing back to his grandfathers serving in World War II and his father's medical career during the challenging era of the AIDS epidemic.
Ben's father, a male nurse, was often ostracized in the '80s, especially because he worked in an AIDS wing during the early days of the epidemic. People at their church would look at the Sledge family with disgust and refused to sit next to them because Ben's father treated homosexual men and women with AIDS. This fear and misinformation extended to young Ben, who was advised by his mother not to disclose his father's workplace specifics. Despite the stigma, his father was inspired to start the first AIDS wing in a hospital and cared deeply for the marginalized. Ben's family faced ostracization from friends and congregation members, which led to Ben developing a compassionate but troubled view of the close-knit community he lived in.
Ben's love for metal music and goth culture clashed with his church's conservative views during the Satanic Panic.
As a teenager, Ben enjoyed bands like Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, and Anthrax, a preference that was unacceptable in the church. His surroundings included activities like playing records backward to find Satanic messages and CD burning events to reject non-Christian music, influenced by movements like the one led by Tipper Gore. Sledge describes attending concerts and enjoying typical teenage activities with his "kind of fringe" friends. However, his personal choices, particularly his musical tastes, became grounds for emotional manipulation, such as at church camps where CD and cassette bur ...
Ben Sledge's Upbringing and Early Life Experiences
Ben Sledge's military service in the Army Reserves has taken him through challenging and intense experiences in both Afghanistan and Iraq, where he faced not only the dangers of combat but also complex moral dilemmas.
Ben Sledge joined the Army Reserves on December 16th, 1999, after becoming disillusioned with church experiences in his native Oklahoma. Influenced by his grandfather and aiming to alleviate his parents' concerns, Ben initially wanted to join the Marines but was persuaded by a recruiter to join a special operations reserve unit, specifically civil affairs and psychological operations (PsyOps). He was enticed by the skills he would acquire, such as diplomacy and languages, which would serve him in and out of the military. Ben aimed to go to college and soon found himself at the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In March 2003, while still in college, he learned he would be deployed to Afghanistan in two months.
Civil affairs and psychological operations were essential during the Vietnam War due to civilian interference on the battlefield. Ben's unit often made numerous friends or was frequently shot at. They were required to engage with the local populace, requiring interpreters and geopolitical expertise, including understanding local culture, history, and population dynamics. These roles were crucial for successful operations and avoiding detrimental impacts on the battle space. Ben was assigned to Task Force 1-77, controlling sections of the city and embedding with infantry units like the 1-26 (Bushmaster) and the 1-18. His team also collaborated with SEAL Team Five and possibly the second ranger bat at Shark Base.
Deployed outside the wire every day, Ben's team's lack of an officer led to them picking up "Major Death Wish" last minute as they were headed overseas, whose leadership led to dysfunction and risk. Another friend, Kyle, replaced Ben's team as they were rotated out; Kyle had been on stop loss due to a shortage of specialized soldiers for the two-front war. Ben was injured and spent his last month in Kandahar with a broken arm. His unit encountered many dangerous situations, like being attacked nearly every other day even within their base. He described the mistreatment of captured men and the consequences of bad intelligence during operations. Ben also discussed the moral dilemmas he faced, such as when "Death Wish" exhibited behavior that put the team in danger during patrols.
Ben's service included witnessing violence and engaging in combat, where he and his fellow soldiers earned Army Commendation Medals with valor for their actions. During his deployment, his wife filed for divorce, adding personal turmoil to his experiences. These struggl ...
Ben's Military Service in Afghanistan and Iraq
Ben Sledge's transition from active duty to civilian life emerges as a narrative marked by severe mental health challenges including deviations in behavior and moral conflicts which together precede his eventual road to recovery.
Upon returning from service, Ben Sledge’s mental health plummeted. Jocko Willink mentions shell shock, a form of PTSD, connecting it with modern soldier experiences, which may relate to what Ben Sledge faced post-deployment. Sledge himself opens up about the guilt he felt over the death of a fellow soldier, an event that heavily impacted his mental well-being.
His struggle included misuse of GI Bill funds for large parties, suggesting potential substance use issues. He recounts his time in college where he partied excessively to numb the pain of lost comrades and war trauma. Placed on SSRIs to combat post-traumatic stress, Sledge clarifies the confusion around its diagnosis, distinguishing PTSD from transition disorders, noting many who have not served in combat might be dealing with the latter. Furthermore, he sheds light on the concept of moral injury, which involves psychological damage from violating one’s personal ethics in war contexts.
Ben also hints at engaging in reckless behavior, such as asking to be punched in the face after being injected with Novocaine, as a method of coping with his trauma. Sledge reflects on the challenges of returning home to an unwelcoming atmosphere when he was not picked up from the airport, magnifying his sense of isolation. He admits hitting "every veteran trope," including unemployment and a disconnect with civilian life, being mostly surrounded by unaware civilians in the reserves. Sledge grappled with the fear of losing his security clearance, which held him back from discussing his struggles with fellow reservists.
Feeling aimless between Austin and Houston, Ben came close to ending his life as a way to escape internal torment he could not alleviate. This period was marked by a profound sense of daily misery and culminated in a fateful moment with a bottle in hand, contemplating suicide. The realization that giving up would mean letting his enemies win spurred newfound resilience. He the ...
Ben's Mental Health and Reintegrating Into Civilian Life
Ben's post-war journey is one marked by personal struggle, spiritual discovery, and a strong sense of purpose, all of which are reflected in his ongoing work with veterans and his efforts to share his story.
Ben's parents advised him to critically discover his own faith. Meeting regularly with a counselor helped him process his moral injury, but full honesty was initially a hindrance to his healing. After a friend suggested going to church, Ben reconsidered faith and the alignment of his values. This led to an encounter with Father Rochefort, a Marine Corps chaplain, and a return to spiritual introspection. An outreach event at a bar and the unconventional measures taken by a church with music like the Foo Fighters' helped Ben connect with a supportive community.
Ben describes his Christian journey as one of growth, humility, and grace. He exemplifies his faith through actions and deeds rather than vocal pronouncements. He's critical of those who claim Christianity without understanding its tenets and advocates living a faith of active value and compassion. Ben keeps a connection with "the church world" and cherishes a strong community of friends.
Writing his memoir, "Where Cowards Go to Die," was a cathartic confession for Ben. Revisiting wartime memories was difficult, evoking tears at times, yet it also provided veterans with a method to express unspoken experiences. Contemplating how to present his war experiences, Ben chose to recount them honestly, reflecting an internal struggle against sanitization. His Medium articles explore various topics with nuance, avoiding inflammatory rhetoric.
While Solid Copy Media, the business Ben is working on, isn't mentioned explicitly, it implicitly suggests he's helping veterans and others to tell their ...
Ben's Healing, Faith, and Purpose After the War
The narrative of Ben Sledge highlights the critical value of community, the powerful impact of mentorship, and the irreplaceable role of camaraderie in supporting veterans through difficult times.
Ben Sledge's journey was significantly influenced by mentors who provided him with guidance, support, and a compassionate model of leadership. His friend Gonzo, who was a part of his leadership team and one of his close friends and mentors, played a pivotal role in his development. Gonzo’s mentorship, which included lighthearted policies to ease fear, leading by example, and providing rest and recuperation, helped Ben navigate the complexities of combat and prepare for his role as a non-commissioned officer.
Similarly, Father Rochefort, a Vietnam veteran and a revered figure in the Marines, served as a legendary figure who inspired Sledge through his faith journey. Even after his death, the impact Rochefort had on Sledge's development as a compassionate leader was evident. Another example of impactful mentorship came from a friend who didn’t react with repulsion to Ben's combat stories but instead provided support, acceptance, and a resilient model for Ben to emulate.
Ben knows the value of mutual support among veterans. He makes it a point to check on his acquaintances regularly, thus emphasizing the importance of the veteran community. He is deeply involved in mentoring relationships, extending the same kind of support he received dur ...
Importance of Community, Mentorship, and Supporting Veterans
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