Jocko Underground: Accept That The People Around You May Not Want To Do Their Best
In this episode of Jocko Podcast, Jocko Willink examines the reality of performance distribution in organizations, where typically 10% of employees are high performers, 80% are average, and 10% are low performers. He explains how leaders can effectively manage this distribution through strategic resource allocation, focusing more on developing high and middle performers while still providing growth opportunities for lower performers.
Willink addresses the challenge of maintaining personal excellence while leading others who may not share the same drive for high performance. He explores how building genuine relationships with employees at all performance levels, engaging in open communication, and demonstrating authentic interest in their goals can create an environment of trust and improved team productivity.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Oct 13, 2025 episode of the Jocko Podcast
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1-Page Summary
The Reality of Performance Distribution in Organizations
Jocko Willink discusses how employee performance typically follows a bell curve distribution: 10% are high performers, 80% are average performers, and 10% are low performers. He emphasizes that leaders must accept and effectively manage this reality, as not every employee can be a top performer.
Strategies For Managing Low-performing Employees
Willink recommends quarterly check-ins with low-performing employees, offering additional training and opportunities for growth with realistic expectations. However, he advises leaders to focus more resources on developing high performers and elevating middle performers rather than concentrating excessive effort on the lowest performers.
The Balance Between Personal Excellence and Influencing Others
According to Willink, leaders shouldn't let others' mediocrity discourage their pursuit of excellence. He advocates for "getting after it" - maintaining high personal standards while leading by example. This approach, combined with empathy and respect, can inspire others to improve their performance.
Importance Of Building Relationships and Trust With Employees
Willink emphasizes the significance of building genuine connections with all employees, regardless of their performance level. He suggests engaging in authentic discourse and showing sincere interest in employees' objectives without judgment. Through open communication and prioritizing staff wellbeing, leaders can foster trust and loyalty, ultimately leading to improved team productivity and morale.
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Counterarguments
- The bell curve distribution of employee performance is a generalization and may not apply to all organizations or industries; some may find a different distribution based on their unique circumstances.
- While focusing on high and middle performers might be more efficient, it could also lead to a neglect of low performers who might have untapped potential or could significantly improve with the right attention and resources.
- Quarterly check-ins might not be sufficient for some low-performing employees who may require more frequent support and feedback to improve.
- The strategy of focusing more on high performers could potentially create a divisive culture and reduce overall team cohesion, as low performers might feel undervalued or marginalized.
- The pursuit of personal excellence is important, but leaders must also ensure that their high standards do not create an unattainable benchmark for others, which could lead to demotivation.
- While leading by example is a powerful leadership tool, it must be coupled with direct mentorship and support to be effective; not all employees will be inspired to improve solely by observation.
- Building relationships and trust is important, but there must also be a balance with accountability; too much emphasis on empathy without accountability can lead to complacency.
- Authentic discourse is valuable, but leaders must also be prepared to have difficult conversations and provide constructive criticism when necessary.
- Prioritizing staff wellbeing is crucial, but it should not come at the expense of meeting organizational goals and maintaining high performance standards.
- Improving team productivity and morale through trust and relationships is a long-term process and might not yield immediate results; leaders must manage expectations around the timeline for seeing the benefits of these efforts.
Actionables
- You can create a peer recognition program to motivate and elevate middle performers by pairing employees to acknowledge each other's strengths and contributions weekly, fostering a culture of appreciation and growth.
- This strategy encourages employees to look for the positive in their colleagues' work, which can help shift the performance distribution. For example, after a team meeting, encourage team members to send a quick message to a peer they felt contributed well, explaining what they did and why it was impactful. This not only boosts morale but also helps employees understand what behaviors are valued.
- Implement a "challenge of the month" for your team to inspire innovation and excellence, where each member tackles a new, small-scale project outside their usual responsibilities.
- This approach gives employees a chance to step out of their comfort zones and develop new skills, which can help shift their position on the performance curve. For instance, if someone is in sales, the challenge could be to come up with a marketing idea, fostering cross-functional understanding and potentially uncovering hidden talents.
- Start a "lunch and learn" series where team members take turns leading informal sessions on topics they're passionate about, not necessarily related to work, to build genuine connections.
- This can help build relationships and trust within the team by showing interest in each other as individuals. For example, an employee might lead a session on their hobby of astronomy, sharing knowledge and perhaps even sparking new interests among colleagues. This can lead to more open communication and a sense of community in the workplace.
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The Reality of Performance Distribution in Organizations
Jocko Willink discusses how employee performance in most organizations typically follows a predictable pattern that leaders must understand and manage effectively.
Employee Performance Follows Bell Curve
Willink acknowledges the existence of a bell curve in employee performance within organizations.
Top 10% High, Middle 80% Average, Bottom 10% Low Performers
Within this bell curve, there is a top ten percent of employees who are high performers. These individuals often deliver exceptional results and are usually recognized as the standout contributors. Conversely, at the other end of the spectrum, there is a bottom ten percent of staff who exhibit low performance. These may be employees struggling to meet the basic requirements of their roles or failing to keep pace with their peers. In between these two groups lies the middle eighty percent, where the majority of employees’ performance varies but is generally considered to be average.
Performance Distribution Is a Reality Leaders Must Manage
Not all Employees Can Be Top Performers ...
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The Reality of Performance Distribution in Organizations
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Clarifications
- A bell curve distribution of employee performance is a concept that illustrates how employee performance tends to cluster around an average level, resembling the shape of a bell when graphed. It suggests that a small percentage of employees are high performers, another small percentage are low performers, and the majority fall within the average performance range. This distribution model helps leaders understand and manage the varying levels of performance within their teams and organizations. By recognizing this pattern, leaders can tailor their management strategies to support different performance levels effectively.
- The categorization of top 10%, middle 80%, and bottom 10% in performance assessment is a common method used to understand the distribution of employee performance within organizations. The top 10% represents high performers who consistently exceed expectations, while the bottom 10% consists of low performers who struggle to meet job requirements. The middle 80% encompasses the majority of employees whose performance falls within an average range. This categorization helps leaders identify and manage performance effectively across different levels of achievement.
- Understanding the performance distribution within an organization helps leaders tailor their manageme ...
Counterarguments
- The bell curve model may not accurately represent all organizations or industries, as performance distribution can be affected by numerous factors such as company culture, industry standards, and the nature of the work being performed.
- Assuming a fixed percentage of high and low performers can lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy where employees are pigeonholed, potentially stifling growth and improvement.
- The concept of average performance is relative and can vary greatly between organizations, making it difficult to apply a one-size-fits-all approach to employee development.
- The bell curve approach to performance management may inadvertently promote mediocrity by not providing enough incentive for the middle 80% to strive to become top performers.
- This model does not account for the dynamic nature of employee performance, where individuals can move between categories over time due to personal development, changes in motivation, or shifts in job requirements.
- The focus on individual performance may overlook the importance of team dynamics and h ...
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Strategies For Managing Low-performing Employees
Proper management of low-performing employees can ensure that every team member has the opportunity to improve and contribute effectively to their organization.
Support Low-performing Employees With Leader Check-Ins
Offering Training and Opportunities With Realistic Expectations
Jocko advises that leaders check in periodically with low-performing employees, perhaps quarterly. These check-ins serve as opportunities to offer supplementary support, such as additional training or chances to take on new responsibilities—for example, running a student council—to help them gain crucial experience. It's important that these opportunities are presented with realistic expectations, even if employees initially resist or refuse.
Focus Resources on High-Performers, Not Low-performers
Rather than dedica ...
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Counterarguments
- Periodic check-ins may not be sufficient for all low-performing employees, as some may require more frequent support and guidance to truly improve.
- Additional training and new responsibilities could overwhelm low-performing employees if not carefully tailored to their individual needs and capacities.
- Realistic expectations are crucial, but there's a risk of setting the bar too low, which could inadvertently signal a lack of confidence in the employee's ability to improve.
- Focusing resources predominantly on high-performers might create a culture where low and middle performers feel undervalued, potentially leading to decreased morale and increased turnover in these groups.
- Elevating middle performers is a sound strategy, but it should not come at the expense of supporting low performers, who may have untapped potential or may be struggling due to external factors.
- The strategy does not address the root causes of low performance, which could be due to a variety of factors including misma ...
Actionables
- Create a "growth opportunity board" in your workspace where you can post various skill-enhancing tasks and projects for your team to volunteer for, ensuring that everyone, including low performers, has a chance to take on new challenges. This board can be a physical space in the office or a digital platform where tasks are categorized by skill level and include a brief description, necessary resources, and potential mentors available for guidance.
- Develop a peer mentorship program where high-performers can pair up with middle or lower-performing colleagues to share insights and provide one-on-one support. This not only helps to distribute your resources effectively but also fosters a collaborative environment where knowledge and skills are shared, potentially leading to improved performance across the board.
- Implement a m ...
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The Balance Between Personal Excellence and Influencing Others
Jocko Willink, a former Navy SEAL and leadership expert, offers guidance on how a leader can focus on personal excellence without being discouraged by others’ mediocrity—and how this can indeed inspire change in others.
Leaders Should Not Let Others' Mediocrity Discourage Excellence
Jocko advises leaders, such as a high school principal, to continue striving for personal excellence and lead by example. He emphasizes that one should not let the lack of ambition in others stop them from achieving their personal best. By persistently showcasing one's dedication to excellence, there is the potential to influence others around them to improve their own standards and performance.
"Inspire Others: Lead By Example Through Self-Improvement"
Willink advocates for the principle of "getting after it," which involves maintaining a relentless pursuit of excellence and setting a positive example for others to follow. He communicates the notion that consistent personal improvement and excellence can serve as an inspiration to those around you, encouraging them to elevate their own performance.
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Counterarguments
- Personal excellence may sometimes create a gap between leaders and their teams, potentially leading to feelings of disconnect or intimidation rather than inspiration.
- Leaders who focus too much on their own excellence might inadvertently neglect the needs and development of their team members.
- The concept of "getting after it" and a relentless pursuit of excellence could contribute to a culture of overwork and burnout if not balanced with self-care and recognition of personal limits.
- Not everyone is motivated by the same factors; what inspires one person to elevate their performance might not work for another, and a leader's example is not always enough to motivate change.
- The balance between personal excellence and building relationships is complex, and leaders might struggle to find the right approach that works for all team members.
- Empathy and respect are crucial, but there may be situations where more direct or assertive forms of feedback and leadership are necessary to address underperformance or misconduct.
- Understanding personal struggles is important, but leaders also need to maintain a certain level of performance an ...
Actionables
- You can start a "Personal Excellence Journal" to track your daily progress and reflect on your leadership journey. Each day, write down one action you took that demonstrates personal excellence and one interaction where you led by example. This practice not only keeps you accountable but also serves as a reminder of your commitment to excellence and the influence you have on others.
- Create a "Trust-Building Challenge" for yourself where you focus on one relationship at work each week. During that week, engage in activities that build trust, such as having lunch with the person, offering help on a project, or simply listening to their concerns. This helps balance your pursuit of excellence with the essential task of fostering strong relationships.
- Develop an "Empathy Map" for someone in your team who might be s ...
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Importance Of Building Relationships and Trust With Employees
Building relationships and fostering trust are cornerstones for any effective leader, as Jocko Willink discusses how these attributes support employees and enhance overall team performance.
Leaders Should Personally Connect With Every Employee
Building Trust: Enhancing Support for all Employees
Although not explicitly stated, the significance of relationship-building comes from the advice for leaders to periodically check in with all employees, indicating that support should be universal. Willink talks about the necessity of establishing trust with employees by engaging in authentic discourse, impacting individuals positively without casting judgment, and expressing a genuine interest in their objectives and passions.
He warns against making subordinates feel scrutinized for their vocational ambitions. Rather, he suggests posing insightful inquiries to gain a deeper comprehension of their perspectives. Moreover, Willink touches on the crucial aspect of communication with every team member, regardless of their output or interests. He emphasizes the need not to overly focus resources on those who may not currently excel but maintains it’s critical to offer unwavering support and sustain a healthy rapport.
Open Communication, Constructive Feedback, and Employee Wellbeing Bridge Performance Gaps and Foster a Cohesive Workforce
Relationship-Focused Leaders Improve Team Pe ...
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Counterarguments
- While building relationships and fostering trust are important, there is a risk of blurring professional boundaries, which could lead to favoritism or a lack of objectivity in decision-making.
- Personal connections with every employee might not be scalable in large organizations, and leaders may need to rely on a tiered approach to management.
- Authentic discourse is valuable, but leaders must balance this with the need to maintain professional distance and ensure that personal biases do not affect their judgment.
- Universal support for all team members is an admirable goal, but resources are often limited, and leaders may need to prioritize support based on strategic objectives and individual performance.
- Open communication and constructive feedback are important, but there must be clear guidelines to ensure that feedback is productive and does not inadvertently harm employee morale.
- Prioritizing employee wellbeing is crucial, but it should not come at the expense of meeting business goals and maintaining high performan ...
Actionables
- You can create a "trust jar" where you write down instances when you've successfully connected with a colleague on a personal level. Keep this jar on your desk and add to it each time you have a meaningful interaction, which will serve as a visual reminder of the trust you're building and encourage you to seek out more of these interactions.
- Start a "walk-and-talk" initiative where you invite different team members for a brief walk, perhaps during a coffee break or lunch. Use this time to discuss non-work-related topics or delve into their personal goals and interests. This breaks down formal barriers and fosters genuine connections in a relaxed setting.
- Implement a "skill-sharing session" once ...
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