472: Avoiding the Pressure Won't Get You Anywhere. W/ Matt Hasby
In this episode of the Jocko Podcast, Matt Hasby shares his journey from a troubled childhood to becoming a Navy SEAL and leader. Hasby recounts the challenges he faced during SEAL training, such as swimming and diving, and how he persevered through grit and adaptability.
The episode explores Hasby's combat deployments to Ramadi and other high-intensity operations, where he honed skills like breaching and sniping. Hasby discusses his progression through leadership roles, highlighting the nuances of balancing operational urgency with team welfare. After retiring, Hasby now applies his combat-tested leadership principles at Echelon Front, helping clients develop organizational and individual leadership capabilities.
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1-Page Summary
Matt Hasby's Background and Upbringing
Matt Hasby's upbringing, marred by a troubled childhood in North Dakota and Arizona, shaped his early years but fueled his determination to become a Navy SEAL. Despite facing challenges like starting fires and learning disabilities, he focused intensely on his fitness. At 17, inspired by the book "Rogue Warrior," Matt trained rigorously for SEAL qualifications such as swimming and running.
Matt's SEAL Training, Deployments, and Leadership Experiences
Training Challenges
Matt struggled initially with crucial aspects of SEAL training like swimming, diving, and surviving Hell Week's extreme conditions. Yet he persevered, altering techniques and pushing through difficulties, displaying the grit that enabled him to ultimately join SEAL Team 3.
Deployment to Ramadi
In Ramadi, Matt was immediately thrust into intense combat, engaging enemy snipers and surviving ambushes. He honed skills as a breacher and sniper while navigating operational challenges and witnessing casualties. Sanger-Katz notes his keen adaptability and resilience during this deployment crucible.
Leadership Roles
Matt progressed through leadership roles like Platoon LPO and Chief, deploying to Iraq and Afghanistan. These positions demanded a nuanced balance of maintaining operational urgency and ensuring team welfare. His experiences highlighted communication's importance and the differences between operating and leading effectively.
Matt's Transition to Civilian Life and Current Role
After retiring in 2022, Matt embarked on a civilian career path aided by mentors like Carlos. This eventually led him to join Echelon Front, where he applies combat-tested leadership principles from his SEAL background to help develop organizational and individual leadership capabilities. Sanger-Katz underscores Matt's ability to leverage his experiences to positively impact clients through Echelon's tailored training approaches.
1-Page Summary
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Actionables
- You can use personal challenges as a catalyst for growth by writing down past difficulties and identifying the strengths you developed as a result. For example, if you had a tough time in school, you might have developed perseverance or creative problem-solving skills that you can now apply to your career or personal goals.
- Enhance your resilience by setting a tough physical or mental challenge for yourself each month, like learning to swim if you're not confident in the water or taking on a complex puzzle. This practice will help you develop the tenacity to push through obstacles, similar to how rigorous training prepares individuals for demanding situations.
- Improve your adaptability by volunteering for a role or project outside your comfort zone, which will force you to learn new skills and adapt quickly to unfamiliar situations. For instance, if you're an accountant, you might volunteer to help organize a community event, which would require different skills and problem-solving approaches.
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Matt Hasby's Background and Upbringing
The story of Matt Hasby offers a deep dive into the circumstances that shaped his life, from a troubled childhood to his aspirations of becoming a Navy SEAL.
Matt's North Dakota and Arizona Roots
Matt's Troubled Childhood: Fires, School Issues, Bakery Work
Matt Hasby was born in North Dakota, a place he fondly remembers growing up, though his early years were fraught with difficulties. His father left when he was born, and his mother, a single parent, married the man he considers his father when Matt was two. They moved periodically between Arizona and their family's home state of North Dakota.
Matt got into trouble for starting fires as a child and faced learning disabilities in school, which exacerbated his behavior problems. Mrs. A, his notably harsh teacher, would manage the special classroom Matt was sent to, a place filled with kids facing diverse and serious challenges. His mother moved them back to North Dakota to provide more supervision and stability when Matt was in fourth grade.
In North Dakota, Matt worked at his mother's bakery, making cookies and cakes, and later at a Wendy's at the age of 16. Despite an arrest for having a suspended license he was unaware of, mere days before joining the Navy, Matt's commitment to entering the military didn't waver.
Matt's Interest in Navy Seals Sparked by "Rogue Warrior"
Matt Aimed to Become a Seal, Enhancing His Fitness and Applying To the Navy
Influenced by the book "Rogue Warrior," Matt's interest in becoming a Navy SEAL was sparked. He focused on just gr ...
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Matt Hasby's Background and Upbringing
Additional Materials
Actionables
- You can draw inspiration from overcoming personal challenges by writing your own narrative of resilience, focusing on the obstacles you've faced and how you've worked to overcome them, similar to how Matt's determination led him to pursue his goal of becoming a Navy SEAL despite his difficult upbringing.
- Start by jotting down the major challenges in your life and the steps you took to address them. This could be anything from dealing with a difficult job, overcoming a fear, or managing a personal crisis. Reflect on the qualities you developed as a result, such as perseverance or adaptability. Share this narrative with friends or family for feedback, or keep it as a personal reminder of your strength when facing future challenges.
- You can set a long-term personal goal and create a step-by-step plan to achieve it, mirroring Matt's focus on graduating high school and joining the SEALs.
- Identify a goal that is meaningful to you, whether it's career-oriented, educational, or personal growth. Break down the goal into smaller, manageable tasks and set deadlines for each. For example, if your goal is to run a marathon, your plan might include weekly running targets, cross-training days, and dietary adjustments. Track your progress and adjust your plan as needed to stay on course.
- You can ...
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Matt's SEAL Training, Deployments, and Leadership Experiences
Matt's journey through SEAL training, deployments, and into leadership roles is a testament to his resilience and dedication to serving as a SEAL.
Training Challenges: Matt's Struggles With Swimming and Diving
As Matt recounts, his journey to becoming a SEAL faced early challenges, especially in swimming and diving. With no pre-BUD/S training program in place, he had about three weeks of repetitive activities before starting the first phase, where he tackled a significant challenge with a 50-meter underwater swim. His inefficient underwater form consumed too much oxygen and was critiqued as possibly the worst an instructor had ever seen. However, after extra weekend practice, he altered his technique, deciding to glide more and be comfortable with not moving. This change proved successful as he passed, while every other candidate who swam after him failed.
Matt's difficulties extended to Hell Week as well. His failure to drink enough water, combined with the cold, led to him being dead last in a critical run. Facing repeated runs and collective punishment, Matt found himself desperately trying to keep up, reaching a physical brink where he developed swimmer’s induced pulmonary edema and required emergency evacuation to a hospital.
Matt also struggled with diving due to no prior experience, despite earning a scuba license. He faced continual challenges with pool competency tests and an instructor who seemed particularly tough on him, repeatedly failing Matt for unconvincing reasons. However, after being observed by the training board and dealing with an impossible "whammy knot," they recognized the failing as unjustified and allowed him to move forward, an unprecedented decision.
Matt Joins SEAL Team 3
After joining SEAL Team 3, starting with BUD/S Class 239, Matt's resilience was on full display, overcoming significant challenges during training. His role as a sniper and breacher was honed not in the classroom, but in the unforgiving landscapes of deployment, where he skilfully managed the risks of explosive breaching and faced the intensity of close combat and leadership responsibilities.
Matt's Deployment to Ramadi Was a Baptism by Fire, With Intense Combat and Platoon Casualties
Deployed to Ramadi, Matt's experiences ranged from intense firefights to witnessing the casualties of platoon mates. His SEAL team arrived under attack, with SEAL snipers engaging insurgents within the first hours. Matt adapted quickly to the combat environment, engaging with enemy snipers, surviving an RPG blast that destroyed his sniper rifle, and fighting his way through ambushes—all while displaying the adaptability and nerve of a seasoned SEAL.
Matt shared leadership challenges when an ineffective leader initially led his team. Following advice and proper channels, the issue was managed internally until it was out of his control. Eventually, the unit's operational tempo called for a new leader, tightening the group's bond. A fresh leadership brought about the mix of high-intensity combat with periods of planning and support, demonstrating their resilience and the SEALs' ability to adapt to rapid-change scenarios.
Matt Showed Resilience During Deployment as a Breacher and Sniper
During deployment, Matt operated as a breacher and sniper, roles which saw him engaging in direct combat, training others, and grappling with operational and leadership challenges. Whether dealing with ambiguity in battle, mastering breaching techniques, or facing the complexities of command, Matt balanced tactical expertise with genuine concern for his team's ...
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Matt's SEAL Training, Deployments, and Leadership Experiences
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Actionables
- You can build resilience by setting a personal challenge in an unfamiliar area, such as learning a new language or instrument, and sticking with it for a set period, regardless of the difficulty.
- This mirrors the perseverance shown in SEAL training and can be done by dedicating a small amount of time each day to practice, using free online resources or apps designed for beginners. The key is to focus on incremental progress and not give up when obstacles arise.
- Enhance your adaptability by changing your daily routine in small ways, like taking a different route to work or trying new foods.
- This strategy helps you become more comfortable with change and uncertainty, similar to adapting to combat environments. Start with one change per week and reflect on how it affects your mood and thinking. It's about learning to be flexible and resourceful in everyday situations.
- Improve your leadership skills by volunteering to lead a proj ...
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Matt's Transition to Civilian Life and Current Role
The journey from a two-decade naval career to a fulfilling civilian life is both challenging and rewarding, exemplified by Matt Hasby's experience at Echelon Front.
After 20 Years in the Navy, Matt Pursued a New Career Path
After 20 years of service, Matt Hasby embarked on a new career path. In his last year in the Navy, he began to take steps towards transition by starting school and enjoying increased autonomy over his schedule. This newfound freedom allowed him to explore various interests that would facilitate his move into the civilian workforce.
Matt retired in 2022 and celebrated this milestone with an epic retirement party. Prior to retiring, Matt participated in Field Training Exercises with someone named JP and attended a muster with Echelon Front, which contributed to his exposure to this group.
Transitioning to civilian life, he had the fortune of being mentored by Carlos, who instructed him on the importance of networking which eventually opened doors to the world of consulting. Post-retirement, Matt aimed to de-risk himself from business and invested effort into networking. He landed a role at a major consulting firm, which he started while still finishing up in the Navy.
Echelon Front Role: Matt Applies Seal Team Leadership Principles to Enhance Leadership Skills In Organizations and Individuals
Matt Hasby's military experience has made him a valuable asset at Echelon Front. There, he directly interacts with clients, applying SEAL team leadership principles that are essential for enhancing leadership in organizations and individuals.
He speaks fondly of his role, finding true enjoyment when he manages to win over initially skeptical individuals. Matt recounts turning a doubtful person into one of the most engaged participants by the end of a training session, highlighting ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Matt's Transition to Civilian Life and Current Role
Additional Materials
Actionables
- You can prepare for significant life transitions by creating a detailed plan with milestones. Start by identifying the end goal of your transition, such as a new career or retirement. Break down the process into smaller, manageable steps, like completing specific courses, updating your resume, or attending networking events. Set deadlines for each milestone to keep yourself on track and adjust as necessary.
- Enhance your leadership skills by practicing principles from various disciplines in everyday situations. For instance, if you admire the leadership principles used by SEAL teams, try applying them to your family or community group. Take charge of a project, encourage open communication, and lead by example. Reflect on the outcomes and tweak your approach based on what works best in your environment.
- Broaden your professional network by offering value to others before asking for help. Instead of ...
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