Podcasts > We Can Do Hard Things > 285. Narcissism vs. Emotional Immaturity: How to Set Boundaries with Family & Work on YOU with Lindsay C. Gibson

285. Narcissism vs. Emotional Immaturity: How to Set Boundaries with Family & Work on YOU with Lindsay C. Gibson

By Glennon Doyle & Audacy

Join hosts Abby Wambach, Glennon Doyle, Amanda Doyle, and their guest, Lindsay C. Gibson, in the podcast "We Can Do Hard Things" as they delve into the intricate relationship between emotional maturity and personal development. This episode examines critical facets of emotional maturation, including the importance of self-reflection in recognizing detrimental behaviors, how feedback from others can aid in self-improvement, and the role of psychotherapy—especially group therapy—in fine-tuning emotional intelligence and interpersonal dynamics. The discussion ventures into acknowledging the transformative power of introspection and guidance in shaping a more mature emotional landscape.

The conversation also navigates the treacherous waters of narcissism, laying bare its hallmarks such as erratic idealization and devaluation, exaggerated self-regard, and an insatiable craving for admiration. Lindsay Gibson, bolstered by insights from Wambach, unpacks the underlying insecurities that fuel narcissistic behavior, portraying a poignant exploration of the quest for validation. Furthermore, the discussion pivots to the lasting impact of emotionally immature parenting, where Gibson and the callers share poignant narratives on the insecurities and emotional dissonance borne from a childhood lacking unconditional support and the ensuing journey of healing.

285. Narcissism vs. Emotional Immaturity: How to Set Boundaries with Family & Work on YOU with Lindsay C. Gibson

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285. Narcissism vs. Emotional Immaturity: How to Set Boundaries with Family & Work on YOU with Lindsay C. Gibson

1-Page Summary

Criteria for becoming more emotionally mature, like self-reflection, listening to feedback, therapy

Emotional maturity involves key practices such as self-reflection, openness to feedback, and psychotherapy, as outlined by Lindsay Gibson and others. Self-reflection is essential in recognizing and altering counterproductive behaviors and thought patterns. Even experts like Gibson and Glennon Doyle recognize the necessity of examining their own reactions to grow emotionally; self-reflection is a process that allows for personal accountability and humility.

The input from trusted sources serves as a crucial complement to this inward journey, wherein feedback is used for enhancing self-awareness and addressing blind spots. Experiences, such as Gibson’s realization-triggered by feedback from her husband, highlight the value of perceiving others' views in personal growth.

Psychotherapy, particularly group therapy, is emphasized as another pivotal avenue for enhancing emotional maturity. It offers a unique setting for receiving live feedback on one’s behavior and enables therapist-guided insight into fulfilling needs in emotionally intelligent ways. The practice aids in real-time adjustment of behaviors, leading to more mature, nurturing interpersonal interactions.

Signs of narcissism like exaggerated idealization/devaluation, grandiose self-view, need for attention

Narcissism is characterized by patterns of idealization and devaluation, an inflated sense of self-importance, and a compulsive need for attention and validation. Lindsay Gibson and Wambach provide context to these behaviors, indicating the deep-rooted insecurities that drive them. A narcissist may swing between depicting someone as perfect and dismissing them entirely based on single instances of perceived failure, reflecting a volatile sense of self-worth.

Narcissists often demand to be the focal point in any scenario, indicating an enlarged self-view, and they may become manipulative if they sense a shift in attention away from themselves. Moreover, their pursuit of being considered extraordinarily special stems from a place of insecurity and a lack of true self-love, emphasizing their reliance on external approval to sustain their self-image.

Effects of emotionally immature parenting: insecure sense of self and lack of emotional attunement

Emotionally immature parenting profoundly affects a child's self-concept and emotional comprehension. Gibson explains that children of such parents are often valued conditionally, based on how well they adhere to roles that provide the parents with validation, rather than being loved for their individual selves. This conditional acceptance leads to insecurities and a compromised sense of self-worth.

Contributions from Jenna and Courtney, alongside reflections from Doyle, highlight the absence of emotional mirroring and support that such children experience. They illustrate that emotionally immature parents might ignore or dismiss their child's emotional needs, which can result in the child doubting their feelings and requiring therapy to address these formative neglects later in life. The conversation also touches upon the complexities surrounding the decision to reconnect with emotionally immature parents after therapeutic understanding, acknowledging that maintaining distance might sometimes be a healthier choice.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Emotional mirroring in parenting involves caregivers reflecting and validating a child's emotions, helping them develop a secure sense of self. It is the process of acknowledging and resonating with a child's feelings, providing emotional support and understanding. This practice fosters emotional intelligence and self-awareness in children, laying the foundation for healthy relationships and self-esteem. Emotional mirroring is crucial for children to feel seen, heard, and accepted, promoting their emotional well-being and confidence.
  • In emotionally immature parenting, conditional acceptance means that a child's worth is based on meeting the parent's needs for validation rather than being loved unconditionally for who they are. This leads to the child feeling insecure and unsure of their self-worth, as their value is tied to fulfilling the parent's expectations. It can result in the child doubting their own feelings and struggling with a sense of identity, as their emotional needs are not consistently acknowledged or validated. This lack of unconditional love and acceptance can have long-lasting effects on the child's emotional well-being and self-esteem.
  • Reconnecting with emotionally immature parents after therapy involves considering the potential impact on one's emotional well-being and boundaries. It requires assessing whether the parents have shown growth and willingness to change. The decision may involve setting clear boundaries to protect oneself while maintaining a relationship. Therapy can help individuals navigate this complex decision-making process.

Counterarguments

  • While self-reflection is important, it can sometimes lead to excessive introspection and self-criticism if not balanced with self-compassion.
  • Openness to feedback is valuable, but it's also important to discern which feedback is constructive and aligns with one's values, as not all feedback may be beneficial or intended to support growth.
  • Psychotherapy is a powerful tool for emotional maturity, but it may not be accessible or appealing to everyone; alternative methods such as meditation, journaling, or peer support groups can also contribute to emotional development.
  • Narcissism is a complex personality disorder that may require professional intervention; simplifying it to a few behaviors might overlook the nuances and the spectrum of narcissistic traits.
  • The idea that all narcissists have deep-rooted insecurities could be an oversimplification; some may have a stable, albeit inflated, self-concept without the typical insecurity.
  • Emotionally immature parenting is not the sole cause of an insecure sense of self in children; genetics, peer relationships, and other environmental factors also play significant roles.
  • The concept of conditional love from parents might not account for cultural differences in parenting styles, where some behaviors perceived as emotionally immature in one culture may be considered normative or even beneficial in another.
  • The suggestion to maintain distance from emotionally immature parents after therapy may not consider the potential for reconciliation and healing in some family relationships, where both parties are willing to work towards improvement.

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285. Narcissism vs. Emotional Immaturity: How to Set Boundaries with Family & Work on YOU with Lindsay C. Gibson

Criteria for becoming more emotionally mature, like self-reflection, listening to feedback, therapy

Lindsay Gibson and other sources discuss the essential practices for developing emotional maturity, such as self-reflection, being receptive to feedback, and the beneficial role of psychotherapy.

Why self-reflection is critical for growth; examples of reflecting on behaviors/patterns to become aware then shift them

In fostering emotional maturity, Gibson underlines the importance of self-reflection, the first step of which is contemplating feedback and deciding what to think of it and what actions to take in response. Gibson believes that self-reflection is crucial for recognizing one’s behavior and patterns that may require change, citing how a high need to be right can indicate emotional immaturity—a trait that needs to be examined and questioned for growth.

Even for those like Gibson herself who are knowledgeable about emotional matters, everyday stressors can trigger emotionally immature reactions, such as her own experience of feeling irritated by her husband's actions, which upon reflection, she identified as a sign of her emotional immaturity. Glennon Doyle adds to this conversation by underscoring the necessity of humility and the courage required to admit to causing hurt, without it affecting one's sense of self. This is indicative of both emotional maturity and self-reflection.

Importance of seeking limited feedback from others as fact-finding to expand self-awareness

Gibson recommends seeking limited feedback from others, treating it as a fact-finding mission that can provide insights into areas where one might not be aware that they're causing issues. She emphasizes the importance of not being defensive and taking on one aspect at a time to prevent feeling overwhelmed. Feedback on how one's behavior is perceived by others is particularly invaluable for personal growth.

For example, when Gibson received feedback from her husband that compared her behavior to her mother's, it served as a wake-up call to reflect on—and alter—her actions.

Value of psychotherapy for gaining relational insights through group dynamics

Psychotherapy, specifically group therapy, is highlighted by Gibson as being extraordinarily beneficial in revealing the dynamics of personal ...

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Criteria for becoming more emotionally mature, like self-reflection, listening to feedback, therapy

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Emotional intelligence (EI) encompasses the ability to recognize, understand, and manage emotions effectively. It involves perceiving emotions in oneself and others, using emotional information to guide thinking and behavior, and adapting emotions to different situations. EI can be developed and is associated with positive workplace performance and effective leadership. Various models exist to measure EI, including trait-based and ability-based approaches.
  • Glennon Doyle is an American author, queer activist, and the creator of the online community Momastery. She is known for her books such as "Untamed," "Love Warrior," and "Carry On, Warrior." Doyle is also the founder of Together Rising, a nonprofit organization supporting women, families, and children in crisis.
  • Humility in admitting to causing hurt without affecting one's sense of self involves acknowledging one's mistakes or actions that have caused harm to others without letting it define one's self-worth. It requires separating the behavi ...

Counterarguments

  • Self-reflection, while important, can sometimes lead to excessive introspection and self-criticism if not balanced with self-compassion.
  • Feedback from others can be biased or inaccurate, and it's important to consider the source and context of the feedback before accepting it as truth.
  • Psychotherapy may not be accessible or affordable for everyone, and there are other ways to gain relational insights, such as through reading, workshops, or talking with trusted friends or mentors.
  • Group therapy dynamics may not always accurately reflect an individual's typical relational patte ...

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285. Narcissism vs. Emotional Immaturity: How to Set Boundaries with Family & Work on YOU with Lindsay C. Gibson

Signs of narcissism like exaggerated idealization/devaluation, grandiose self-view, need for attention

Understanding narcissism is crucial as it can manifest through behaviors such as excessive idealization or devaluation of others based on their actions, a heightened sense of self-importance, and a strong desire for constant attention and validation. This explanation draws on insights from Lindsay Gibson and Wambach.

Idealization when the narcissist depends on you; sudden devaluation after perceived disappointment

Narcissists tend to either overidealize people when they are in favor or devalue them sharply after feeling disappointed. Gibson describes how a child raised to believe their value only comes from being the greatest or receiving positive feedback may develop narcissistic traits, leading to cycles of idealization and devaluation in their relationships. The child may not feel individually seen or valued, triggering a deep insecurity and reliance on constant positive reinforcement to feel existent.

Inflated sense of self-importance and centering in all situations

Narcissists often carry a grandiose self-image, exhibit an inability to admit mistakes, and need to be seen as always right. They require being the center of attention, to the point where they might create chaos to restore attention to themselves. Being ignored or sidelined can trigger insecurity and prompt manipulative behavior to re-center themselves in any situation.

Intense need for validation through attention and being "most special"

The existential need ...

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Signs of narcissism like exaggerated idealization/devaluation, grandiose self-view, need for attention

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In the context of narcissism, overidealization involves excessively praising or valuing someone, often to an unrealistic degree. Devaluation, on the other hand, is the sudden and severe decrease in the value or worth attributed to that person, typically following a perceived disappointment or threat to the narcissist's self-image. This pattern of idealization and devaluation can create unstable and tumultuous relationships, as the narcissist's perception of others fluctuates dramatically based on their own emotional needs and insecurities. This behavior is often rooted in deep-seated issues related to self-worth and validation.
  • The link between a child's upbringing and the development of narcissistic traits is rooted in how parental influences shape a child's self-worth and perception of validation. Children raised in environments where their value is solely tied to external achievements or praise may internalize a need for constant validation, leading to narcissistic tendencies. This upbringing can foster a sense of insecurity and a reliance on external approval to feel a sense of self-worth, contributing to the development of narcissistic behaviors in adulthood. Understanding these early dynamics is crucial in comprehending how narcissistic traits can stem from childhood experiences and parental influences.
  • ...

Counterarguments

  • Narcissism is a complex personality trait, and not all individuals who exhibit some of these behaviors may qualify for a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).
  • Idealization and devaluation can also occur in other psychological conditions and interpersonal dynamics, not exclusively in narcissism.
  • The development of narcissistic traits can be influenced by a variety of factors, including genetics and environment, not solely by how one is raised.
  • Some individuals may display confidence and self-importance without it being pathological or narcissistic.
  • Seeking attention and validation is a normal human need to some extent, and not all who seek these are narcissists.
  • The ability to admit mistakes and not always needing to be the center of attention can vary greatly among individuals with narcissistic traits.
  • The concept of narcissism can sometimes be used too broadly, potentially leading to mislabeling or misunderstanding of individuals' behaviors.
  • There are therapeutic approaches that can help ...

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285. Narcissism vs. Emotional Immaturity: How to Set Boundaries with Family & Work on YOU with Lindsay C. Gibson

Effects of emotionally immature parenting: insecure sense of self and lack of emotional attunement

Gibson and callers such as Jenna and Courtney discuss the profound impact emotionally immature parenting can have on children, influencing their sense of self and emotional development.

Child feels they must fulfill a designated role that is rewarded vs being accepted fully

Gibson suggests that emotionally immature parents, being self-absorbed and having poor empathy, fail to mirror their child's emotions and meet their developmental needs. These parents may conditionally love their child for fulfilling a specific role—"my little man," "my little princess"—rather than for who the child truly is. This conditional acceptance forces the child into a role that benefits the parents, not the child, contributing to insecurity and a lack of genuine self-worth.

Absence of mirroring child's emotions and meeting developmental needs

Jenna brings up the possibility that her mother is a narcissist, but feels more aligned with the concept of emotional immaturity when she thinks about her mother's behavior. Furthering the conversation, Doyle reflects on parental patterns of negating a child's feelings rather than providing comfort. She suggests that explaining away or intellectualizing a child's hurt, instead of acknowledging their emotions, can lead to the child questioning their own fee ...

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Effects of emotionally immature parenting: insecure sense of self and lack of emotional attunement

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Emotionally immature parenting involves caregivers who struggle to understand and respond to their children's emotions and needs effectively. This can lead to children feeling insecure, lacking a strong sense of self-worth, and struggling with emotional regulation. The implications of emotionally immature parenting can manifest in children feeling pressured to fulfill specific roles dictated by their parents rather than being accepted for who they truly are. This dynamic can impact a child's emotional development and sense of self in significant ways.
  • Mirroring a child's emotions involves the parent reflecting back the child's feelings, validating them, and helping the child understand and regulate their emotions. Meeting a child's developmental needs means providing the necessary support, guidance, and resources to help the child grow physically, emotionally, and mentally in a healthy way. This process is crucial for building a strong sense of self and fostering emotional well-being in children. Parents who effectively mirror their child's emotions and meet their developmental needs contribute to the child's overall emotional intelligence and self-confidence.
  • Emotional immaturity in parenting typically involves a lack of emotional awareness, empathy, and the ability to meet a child's emotional needs. On the other hand, narcissistic parenting often involves a focus on the parent's own needs, a sense of entitlement, and a lack of empathy for the child's emotions. While emotionally immature parents may struggle to attune to their child's feelings and developmental needs, narcissistic parents may prioritize their own desires and validation over their child's well-being. Both emotional immaturity and narcissism can impact a child's sense of self and emotional development, albeit through different mechanisms.
  • Emotional neglect in childhood can lead to unresolved emotional issues that may manifest later in life. Therapy can help individuals process and heal from the impact of em ...

Counterarguments

  • While emotionally immature parenting can contribute to an insecure sense of self, it is not the sole determinant; genetics, peer interactions, and other environmental factors also play significant roles in a child's development.
  • Some children may adapt to the conditional love of emotionally immature parents by developing resilience and independence, which can be positive traits in adulthood.
  • It is possible for emotionally immature parents to still provide some level of emotional support and mirroring, even if inconsistent, which can mitigate the negative effects on a child's development.
  • Children may find alternative sources of emotional support, such as from other family members, mentors, or friends, which can help compensate for the lack of emotional attunement from their parents.
  • Intellectualizing a child's hurt is not always detrimental; in some contexts, it can help the child develop coping mechanisms and a more analytical approach to their emotions.
  • Reconnecti ...

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