Podcasts > Unlocking Us with Brené Brown > Khaled Elgindy on his book: Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians, from Balfour to Trump

Khaled Elgindy on his book: Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians, from Balfour to Trump

By Vox Media Podcast Network

In "Unlocking Us with Brené Brown," Brene Brown converses with Khaled Elgindy about the deep-seated issues at the heart of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Elgindy dissects the critical implications of occupation, blockades, and the denial of rights, shedding light on the ways these elements feed into a cycle of violence and resistance. He delineates how Israel's strategic divide and conquer tactics exacerbate the situation, with the ongoing blockade of Gaza by Israel fueling wars and unsustainable ceasefires. This exposition exposes the asymmetrical power dynamics, with Israel's military superiority posing an existential threat to Palestinian existence, leading to widespread destruction and forced displacement.

The episode further delves into America's involvement in the conflict, with Elgindy articulating how the U.S. has historically aligned with Israeli interests to the detriment of the Palestinian cause. He scrutinizes the pattern of U.S. support for Israeli military endeavors and the reluctance to enact timely ceasefires, underlining how such stances perpetuate the conflict and ignore the Palestinians' plight. Despite the complexities, Elgindy shares an uplifting perspective on the power of nonviolent activism, encompassing both Israeli and Palestinian efforts, to forge a path toward peace. As Brown and Elgindy explore the influential role grassroots movements and societal shifts in the United States play in this regard, "Unlocking Us" illuminates the potential for collective action in altering national attitudes and advocating for change.

Khaled Elgindy on his book: Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians, from Balfour to Trump

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Khaled Elgindy on his book: Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians, from Balfour to Trump

1-Page Summary

Root causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Khaled Elgindy identifies occupation, the blockade of Gaza, and the systematic denial of Palestinian rights and territory as the fundamental causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He notes the divide and conquer approach of Israel, perpetuating divisions among Palestinians to maintain its occupation. With Hamas governing Gaza, Israel's blockade has resulted in wars and unsustainable ceasefires. The power asymmetry, with Israel as the dominant military force, threatens Palestinian existence and has led to extensive destruction and potential displacement. Elgindy points out that long-term grievances stem from military actions, economic deprivation, and significant injustices like land loss and occupation. These aspects, including the killing of Palestinian children and other violent acts, fuel resistance which is often seen as a response to prolonged subjugation. Despite perceived calmness for Israelis between 2008 and 2022, Elgindy emphasizes that the period saw a striking number of Palestinian casualties, signaling unresolved foundational injustices and protracted trauma.

U.S. complicity in the conflict

Elgindy criticizes the one-sided U.S. approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, contending it contributes to ongoing tensions and aligns with Israeli objectives, such as the isolation of Hamas and recognition of Fatah. He denounces the U.S. unconditional support for Israeli military tactics and the delay in pushing for ceasefires, which he attributes to the U.S. corresponding with Israel's aim of eliminating Hamas. The pattern of unconditionally backing Israel, according to Elgindy, perpetuates the power imbalance and overlooks Palestinian needs. The tendency of the U.S. to veto U.N. ceasefires, in conjunction with justifying Israeli military actions, is criticized for prolonging conflict and neglecting the need for a cohesive Palestinian leadership. Elgindy's assessment of the Biden administration reveals a "blind spot" towards the disproportionate Israeli power and suffering of Palestinians, leading to recklessness that impacts Gaza's populace and American credibility.

Prospects for joint nonviolent activism

Elgindy, with Brene Brown, expresses optimism for nonviolent activism's role in ending the Israeli occupation and fostering political will in both Israeli and Palestinian societies. They discuss the significance of joint action, past nonviolent movements, and the potential of grassroots efforts. A notable generational shift in the U.S. attitude toward the conflict is observed, marked by protests and increasing public outrage over Israeli military actions. The potential for Israeli-Palestinian grassroots mobilization is exemplified by initiatives such as the Parent Circle Family Forum, which demonstrates the power of collective, bereaved individuals in advocating for peace. Furthermore, local U.S. actions, such as city council resolutions, reflect the impact of grassroots movements on high-level policies, emphasizing the influence of informed Americans in promoting nonviolent activism. Elgindy suggests that such movements can play a vital role in shifting national perspectives and advancing nonviolent change.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The "divide and conquer" approach of Israel in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict refers to the strategy of creating divisions among Palestinians to weaken their collective resistance against Israeli occupation. This tactic involves exploiting internal differences within Palestinian society, such as political, social, or factional divisions, to maintain control and prevent unified opposition to Israeli policies. By fostering discord and disunity among Palestinians, Israel aims to undermine their ability to effectively challenge the occupation and assert their rights and territorial claims. This strategy is seen as a means for Israel to exert influence and control over the Palestinian population by sowing internal strife and preventing cohesive resistance efforts.
  • The power asymmetry in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict highlights the significant difference in military capabilities between Israel and Palestine. This imbalance threatens the very existence of Palestinians as they face a dominant military force, leading to extensive destruction and potential displacement. The overwhelming military superiority of Israel creates a situation where Palestinians are at a severe disadvantage in terms of defending their rights and territory. This power dynamic contributes to the ongoing conflict and exacerbates the challenges faced by Palestinians in asserting their rights and achieving a just resolution.
  • Long-term grievances in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, such as economic deprivation, stem from disparities in resources and opportunities between Israelis and Palestinians. Land loss is a significant issue for Palestinians, as they have experienced displacement and restricted access to their ancestral lands due to Israeli settlements and occupation policies. These grievances contribute to a sense of injustice and frustration among Palestinians, fueling resistance and perpetuating the conflict. Economic deprivation and land loss are deeply intertwined with the historical and ongoing dynamics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
  • The U.S. alignment with Israeli objectives in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict refers to the consistent support and backing that the United States provides to Israel, often in line with Israel's strategic goals and interests in the region. This alignment includes political, military, and economic assistance that reinforces Israel's position and policies in the conflict. The U.S. alignment with Israeli objectives has been criticized for potentially perpetuating power imbalances and hindering efforts towards a more balanced approach to resolving the conflict. This alignment has implications for U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East and its role in the peace process between Israelis and Palestinians.
  • The statement "Delay in pushing for ceasefires corresponding with Israel's aim" suggests that the United States' reluctance to quickly advocate for ceasefires in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict aligns with Israel's goal of weakening or eliminating Hamas, a Palestinian political and militant group. This delay in promoting ceasefires can be seen as indirectly supporting Israel's strategic objectives in the region by allowing military actions to continue without immediate intervention to halt hostilities. The implication is that the U.S.'s actions, or lack thereof, may inadvertently align with Israel's interests in dealing with Hamas through military means rather than prioritizing immediate cessation of violence through diplomatic efforts.
  • The United States has historically used its veto power in the United Nations Security Council to block resolutions calling for ceasefires in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This action has been criticized for hindering international efforts to halt hostilities and protect civilians in the region. The U.S. veto power has often been seen as aligning with Israeli interests and policies, leading to accusations of bias and prolonging the conflict. By vetoing U.N. ceasefires, the U.S. has been perceived as prioritizing its strategic alliance with Israel over advocating for immediate peace initiatives in the region.
  • The reference to the Biden administration's "blind spot" towards Israeli power suggests criticism of the administration's perceived failure to adequately acknowledge and address the power dynamics favoring Israel over Palestinians in the conflict. This critique implies that the administration may not be effectively holding Israel accountable for its actions or considering the impact of Israeli military dominance on Palestinian suffering. The term highlights a perceived lack of balanced approach in U.S. policy towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict under the Biden administration. It indicates a concern that the administration's actions or inactions may inadvertently contribute to perpetuating the existing power imbalance in the conflict.
  • The Parent Circle Family Forum is an organization composed of Israeli and Palestinian families who have lost loved ones in the conflict. They come together to promote reconciliation, understanding, and peace-building through dialogue and shared experiences of grief. This initiative aims to humanize the "other" side, foster empathy, and challenge stereotypes by showing the common humanity and shared suffering among individuals affected by the conflict. The Parent Circle Family Forum serves as a powerful example of grassroots efforts to bridge divides and promote peace in the Israeli-Palestinian context.
  • Grassroots movements can influence high-level policies by mobilizing public support and raising awareness about specific issues. These movements often engage in advocacy efforts, such as organizing protests, lobbying policymakers, and creating public pressure for change. Through sustained activism and community involvement, grassroots movements can push for policy reforms and hold decision-makers accountable to address the concerns of the people they represent. Ultimately, the collective action and voices of grassroots movements can shape the political agenda and drive meaningful policy changes at the national level.

Counterarguments

  • The Israeli government argues that the occupation and security measures, including the blockade of Gaza, are necessary for the safety and security of its citizens in the face of threats from militant groups.
  • Some argue that the divide among Palestinians is also a result of internal political rivalries and not solely due to Israeli policies.
  • There is a perspective that Israel's military actions are often defensive responses to attacks from Palestinian militants, rather than unilateral aggression.
  • Critics of the Palestinian leadership claim that corruption and mismanagement have also contributed to the economic deprivation of the Palestinian people.
  • Some believe that the resistance includes acts of terrorism that cannot be justified as a response to occupation and that these acts exacerbate the conflict.
  • Supporters of the U.S. policy argue that the U.S. support for Israel is based on shared democratic values and strategic interests, and that the U.S. does push for peace negotiations.
  • It is contended that the U.S. has a right to exercise its veto power in the U.N. when it believes resolutions are unbalanced or counterproductive to peace efforts.
  • Some argue that the Biden administration is aware of the complexities of the conflict and is working within those constraints to achieve a sustainable solution.
  • Critics of nonviolent activism suggest that while it is ideal, it may not be sufficient to address the deep-seated issues and power imbalances in the conflict.
  • There is skepticism about the impact of grassroots movements on high-level policies, with some believing that real change can only come through official diplomatic channels.
  • Some argue that local U.S. actions, such as city council resolutions, may not have a significant impact on foreign policy or the dynamics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
  • There is a view that grassroots movements in the U.S. may not fully understand the complexities of the conflict and could inadvertently support one side over the other.

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Khaled Elgindy on his book: Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians, from Balfour to Trump

Root causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Khaled Elgindy delves into the political and social dynamics that fuel the longstanding Israeli-Palestinian conflict, marking occupation, blockades, and loss of rights as primary factors.

Occupation, blockades, and loss of Palestinian rights and territory

Longstanding injustices have created deep grievances and trauma

Elgindy maps the political landscape of Palestine, divided between two main parties: Fatah and Hamas. With Hamas in control of Gaza, Israel has put the region under a blockade in an attempt to topple the Hamas government. This action has led to repeated wars, cycles of violence, and ceasefires followed by minor, unsustainable concessions.

He critically views the divide and conquer strategy of Israel as a colonial power, aiming to fragment Palestinians, perpetuate divisions, and thus help maintain the occupation. By doing so, Israel prevents the rise of a unified Palestinian leadership capable of credible negotiations.

Elgindy also points to the significant asymmetry in power between Israel and Palestinians. Israel, being the most powerful military force in the region, poses an existential threat to Palestinian existence. The severe destruction in Gaza, resulting in the demolition of homes, universities, mosques, and infrastructure, has led to the potential forced displacement of over a million Palestinians.

The Israeli occupation, which started in 1967, represents an era that many expect to see end as a fundamental precondition in peace discussions, yet it lingers. Settlements built in occupied territories are deemed illegal under international law and the UN charter, which rejects territorial acquisition by force and stresses the necessity for negotiation in resolving conflicts.

Elgindy speaks to the deep trauma inflicted upon Palestinian families, particularly through military actions that include the killing of children, creating long-term grievances. These grievances are tied to the systematic denial of rights, economic deprivation, land loss, and the occupation itself. Resist ...

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Root causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Fatah and Hamas are two major Palestinian political parties with differing ideologies and approaches to governance. Fatah is a secular nationalist party that historically dominated the Palestinian Authority, while Hamas is an Islamist organization known for its militant activities and control over the Gaza Strip. The rivalry between Fatah and Hamas has been a significant factor in Palestinian politics, shaping internal dynamics and influencing relations with Israel. Their divergent strategies and goals have often led to tensions and conflicts within Palestinian society.
  • The divide and conquer strategy of Israel in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict involves tactics aimed at creating divisions among Palestinians to weaken their collective strength and resistance against Israeli occupation. This strategy includes supporting rival Palestinian factions, exacerbating internal conflicts, and fostering disunity to prevent the emergence of a unified Palestinian leadership capable of negotiating effectively with Israel. By perpetuating divisions and preventing Palestinian unity, Israel aims to maintain control over the occupied territories and hinder the prospects of a comprehensive peace agreement.
  • The asymmetry in power between Israel and Palestinians is significant due to Israel's superior military capabilities, including advanced weaponry and defense systems, compared to the Palestinians. This power imbalance affects various aspects of the conflict, such as the ability to control territory, conduct military operations, and influence negotiations. Palestinians face challenges in defending themselves and their rights against a much stronger Israeli military presence, impacting the dynamics of the conflict and contributing to the ongoing tensions.
  • The period between 2008 to 2022 was relatively calm for Israelis in terms of lower casualties, while approximately 6,000 Palestinians were killed during the same time frame. This disparity in casualties highlights the asymmetry in the co ...

Counterarguments

  • The Israeli government argues that the blockade on Gaza is a security measure in response to threats from militant groups, not solely an attempt to topple the Hamas government.
  • Some argue that Israel's military actions are defensive measures taken in response to rocket attacks and other forms of aggression from Palestinian territories.
  • There is a perspective that the divide between Fatah and Hamas is a result of internal Palestinian political dynamics rather than solely an Israeli strategy.
  • Critics of the international law interpretation regarding settlements argue that the status of the territories is disputed and that historical and biblical connections justify Israeli claims.
  • Some contend that the occupation is a complex issue with historical roots in wars and security concerns, and not merely a unilateral act of aggression.
  • It is argued that Israel has made multiple offers for peace and territorial compromise, which have been rejected by Palestinian leadership.
  • There are voices within Israel that believe the country has a right to exist and defend itself, and that the existential threat is mutual.
  • Some suggest that Palestinian leadership bears some responsibility for the humanitarian situa ...

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Khaled Elgindy on his book: Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians, from Balfour to Trump

U.S. complicity in the conflict

Khaled Elgindy and Brown discuss the United States’ approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, suggesting that America's policies have consistently been one-sided and contributory to the ongoing tensions.

Unconditional U.S. support for Israeli military assaults

The United States has been critiqued for its approach to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, viewing it predominantly through an Israeli perspective, as Khaled Elgindy points out. Elgindy mentions that the U.S. endorsed a divide and conquer strategy that saw the split between Palestinian factions as beneficial, supporting the isolation of Hamas in Gaza while recognizing Fatah in the West Bank. The conversation suggests that the U.S. makes strategic decisions, such as selectively allowing Israel to build settlements, even though claiming settlements are problematic.

Elgindy criticizes a key U.S. policy of giving Israel "love, assurances, carrots" to feel secure enough to make concessions, contrasting it with the pressure applied to Palestinians to reform. He argues this exacerbates the conflict by worsening the power imbalance. Elgindy mentions that Joe Biden offered Israel unconditional support to deal with Hamas, suggesting that the U.S. perspective aligns closely with Israeli objectives, even when it leads to suffering in Gaza. He cites Biden's initial reluctance to push for a ceasefire, influenced by Israel's goal of completely eradicating Hamas rather than just suppressing it.

Elgindy also discusses the damage inflicted on Gaza and criticizes the Biden administration for what appears to be indifference to the reality of Israeli power, and a blindness to Palestinian humanity. Elgindy concludes by stating that the failure to address Palestinian suffering and needs has deepened the conflict and fostered a new generation of traumatized individuals.

Repeated diplomatic stalling and vetoing of U.N. ceasefires

The United States has been said to veto ceasefire resolutions at the Security Council multiple times. Elgindy expresses that the American stance is entangled in the zero-sum logic that equates ceasefires with allowing Hamas to rebuild, thus framing any cessation of violence as a potential risk for further attacks.

The approach is seen as flawed, deepening the divide and misunderstanding the Palestinians' need for cohesive and legitimate leadership. Elgindy characterizes the U.S. rationalization or minimization of Palestinian death and destruction, implying a systemic b ...

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U.S. complicity in the conflict

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the "divide and conquer" strategy alludes to tactics that exploit divisions within the Palestinian factions to weaken their unified stance against Israeli actions. By supporting one faction over another, external powers can manipulate internal dynamics to maintain control and influence outcomes in the conflict. This strategy aims to fragment the Palestinian leadership and society, making it harder for them to present a cohesive front in negotiations or resistance efforts. Ultimately, this approach can serve to perpetuate the power imbalance and hinder prospects for a unified Palestinian response to Israeli policies and actions.
  • In the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the term "zero-sum logic" suggests a belief that any gains made by one party must result in an equivalent loss for the other. Equating ceasefires with allowing Hamas to rebuild implies a perspective that sees any pause in hostilities as potentially strengthening Hamas, the Palestinian militant group, which could be perceived as detrimental to Israel's security. This viewpoint may lead to a reluctance to support ceasefires out of concern that it could empower Hamas to regroup and pose a greater threat in the future.
  • U.S. policies minimizing Palestinian suffering and death suggest that American actions or statements downplay the impact of Palestinian casualties and destruction in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This approach can be seen as disregarding the full extent of harm experienced by Palestinians, potentially leading to a lack of empathy or urgency in addressing their needs. By minimizing Palestinian suffering, U.S. policies may inadvertently contribute to perpetuating the conflict and hindering efforts towards a peaceful resolution. This dynamic underscores the importance of considering the human cost of the conflict and the implications of policy decisions on all affected parties.
  • Understanding the blind spot towards Palestinian needs and legitimate leadership involves recognizing a lack of consideration for the aspirations and requirements of Palestinians in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This blind spot often results in overlooking the im ...

Counterarguments

  • The U.S. support for Israel is based on shared democratic values and strategic interests in a region where democratic allies are scarce.
  • The U.S. recognizes the complexity of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and believes that Israel has the right to defend itself against terrorist threats.
  • The U.S. has consistently advocated for a two-state solution, which reflects a recognition of the legitimate aspirations of both Israelis and Palestinians.
  • The U.S. provides aid to the Palestinian Authority and supports economic development and institution-building in the West Bank as part of its efforts to promote peace.
  • The U.S. has historically been a key broker in peace negotiations, and its engagement is often seen as essential for any lasting resolution to the conflict.
  • The U.S. vetoes at the U.N. Security Council may be seen as efforts to prevent resolutions that could undermine direct negotiations between the parties or that are viewed as one-sided against Israel.
  • The U.S. m ...

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Khaled Elgindy on his book: Blind Spot: America and the Palestinians, from Balfour to Trump

Prospects for joint nonviolent activism

Brene Brown and Elgindy explore the potential for nonviolent activism to end the occupation and create political will in both Israel and Palestine. They touch upon the importance of joint Arab-Jewish-Israeli-Palestinian action, the historical context of nonviolent resistance, and the significance of grassroots initiatives and generational shifts in the U.S. regarding the conflict.

Generational shifts in attitudes towards the conflict

Growing outrage in the U.S. over Israeli military actions

Elgindy observes a generational shift within the U.S. regarding the conflict, with protests on college campuses, civil disobedience, and public figures from this administration being heckled. This generational shift is particularly pronounced among young people, evidencing a changing American outlook on the conflict.

Potential for joint Israeli-Palestinian grassroots mobilization

Elgindy highlights the importance of nonviolent resistance, especially when it involves joint action and mobilization. He acknowledges the intertwined lives and shared spaces, such as Jerusalem, that make building a culture for nonviolent activism in both societies a necessity.

He brings attention to past movements such as the first intifada and the Great March of Return in Gaza, recognizing their influence on mobilizing international opinion and changing political dynamics, despite the difficult circumstances they faced.

Brown refers to the Parent Circle Family Forum—a group of bereaved individuals from both sides—demonstrating the potential for joint Israeli-Palestinian grassroots mobilization. Elgindy unders ...

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Prospects for joint nonviolent activism

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Brene Brown is a well-known research professor who focuses on topics like vulnerability, courage, and empathy. Elgindy is a common surname, and without further context, it's challenging to pinpoint a specific individual. In this text, they are discussing the potential for nonviolent activism to address the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Brown's expertise in human behavior and Elgindy's perspective on the conflict contribute to the discussion on joint nonviolent activism.
  • The first intifada, which occurred from 1987 to 1993, was a Palestinian uprising against Israeli occupation characterized by widespread civil disobedience and protests. It drew international attention to the Palestinian cause and shifted the dynamics of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Great March of Return in Gaza, starting in 2018, involved mass protests at the Gaza-Israel border, calling for the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their ancestral lands. This event aimed to draw global awareness to the humanitarian situation in Gaza and put pressure on Israel and the international community to address Palestinian grievances.
  • The Parent Circle Family Forum is an organization composed of bereaved families from both Israeli and Palestinian backgrounds who have lost loved ones in the conflict. They come together to promote reconciliation, understanding, and peace-building efforts through dialogue and joint activities. The group serves as a powerful example of individuals transcending their personal grief to work towards fostering empathy and reconciliation between the two communities. Their work emphasizes the human cost of the conflict and the shared des ...

Counterarguments

  • The effectiveness of nonviolent activism in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict may be limited by the asymmetry of power between the two sides and the complex geopolitical factors at play.
  • Joint Arab-Jewish-Israeli-Palestinian action, while ideal, faces significant challenges due to deep-seated mistrust, divergent narratives, and the current political climate in both societies.
  • The historical context of nonviolent resistance shows a mixed record of success, and some may argue that certain nonviolent movements have not led to substantial or lasting change.
  • Grassroots initiatives in the U.S. may not accurately reflect the perspectives or priorities of those living in Israel and Palestine, and could be seen as external interference.
  • Outrage in the U.S. over Israeli military actions may not be representative of the broader American public opinion, which has traditionally been supportive of Israel.
  • The potential for joint Israeli-Palestinian grassroots mobilization may be overstated, considering the ongoing political divisions and the lack of a unified leadership that can represent both communities.
  • Shared spaces like Jerusalem are deeply contested, and the idea of building a culture for nonviolent activism may be overly optimistic given the city's religious and historical significance to both Israelis and Palestinians.
  • Past movements such as the first intifada and the Great March of Return may be viewed by some as having ultimately failed to achieve their objectives and leading to further entrenchment of the status quo.
  • The Parent Circle Family Forum, while a powerful symbol of reconciliation, may not be indicative of broader societal readiness to engage in joint mobilization efforts.
  • Local actions like city councils passin ...

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