Podcasts > Tommy T Podcast - Mscs Media > Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

By Mscs Media Audio

In this episode of the Tommy T Podcast, Dr. Natanya Wachtel explores the potential of psychedelics like psilocybin mushrooms to treat mental health issues more effectively than traditional medications. The discussion delves into the mind-body connection and the placebo effect, examining how belief and mindset can contribute to healing and self-actualization.

Wachtel also shares insights into the Evermore app, which aims to foster empathy, community, and mental health support for youth, particularly marginalized groups. The conversation touches on the impacts of AI and technology on mental health, both positive and negative, and the importance of human connections in promoting well-being.

Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

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Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

1-Page Summary

Mental Health and PTSD

Natanya Wachtel discussed the potential of psychedelics like psilocybin mushrooms to treat mental health issues like depression, anxiety, and PTSD more effectively than traditional medications. She highlighted how psychedelics may work at the cellular level, enabling beneficial changes in brain pathways and neuron connectivity. The conversation covered the importance of proper clinical evaluation, setting, and guidance like trip sitters for safe psychedelic use, as well as challenges around accessibility and affordability.

AI, Technology, and the Future

The panel explored how AI and technology negatively impact mental health through filters creating unrealistic standards, distortion of reality, and manipulation of information. However, Wachtel mentioned using empathy-based AI like the Evermore app to improve communication, cultivate empathy, and support mental health in youth through mentorship and community.

Helping Youth and Marginalized Groups

Wachtel is involved with the Evermore app, providing mentorship, community, and mental health support specifically for youth of color. The app aims to inspire positive futures through anonymous sharing in a supportive environment. The importance of community, empathy and human connections across groups was emphasized by Wachtel and others as crucial for improving mental health.

Placebo Effect and Self-Healing

Drawing from Dr. Joe Dispenza's book, Wachtel explored the placebo effect - how belief and mindset alone can contribute to healing through the mind-body connection. She posited that techniques like self-suggestion and "downloading" intentions to the brain could activate the placebo effect and self-healing through the power of belief.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Psychedelics like psilocybin mushrooms have shown promise in treating mental health issues due to their potential to induce profound changes in consciousness. Research suggests that these substances may help alleviate symptoms of conditions like depression, anxiety, and PTSD by affecting brain pathways and neural connections. Proper clinical evaluation, guidance, and a controlled setting are crucial for safe and effective psychedelic use. Accessibility and affordability remain significant challenges in the medical use of psychedelics.
  • The placebo effect is a phenomenon where a person experiences a real improvement in their condition after receiving a treatment that has no therapeutic effect, solely because they believe it will work. Self-healing through belief and mindset involves harnessing the power of one's thoughts and beliefs to positively influence physical health and well-being, often by triggering the body's natural healing mechanisms. This process highlights the strong connection between the mind and body, suggesting that our mental state can play a significant role in our physical health outcomes. By cultivating a positive mindset and belief in the body's ability to heal, individuals may enhance their own healing processes and well-being.

Counterarguments

  • While psychedelics show promise, their long-term effects are not fully understood, and they may not be suitable for everyone.
  • The therapeutic use of psychedelics requires careful screening for potential contraindications, such as a personal or family history of psychosis.
  • Accessibility and affordability challenges for psychedelics could be exacerbated by regulatory hurdles and the potential for commercial exploitation.
  • The impact of AI and technology on mental health is complex and can also include positive aspects, such as increased access to information and social connectivity.
  • Empathy-based AI applications are still in their infancy, and their effectiveness compared to human interaction in supporting mental health is not yet conclusively proven.
  • There is a risk that apps like Evermore could inadvertently expose vulnerable youth to online risks if not properly monitored and safeguarded.
  • While community and empathy are important, individualized professional mental health care remains critical for many mental health conditions.
  • The placebo effect is not a reliable treatment method and should not replace evidence-based medical interventions.
  • The concept of "downloading" intentions to the brain is metaphorical and lacks a clear scientific basis, potentially misleading individuals about how change and healing occur.

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Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

Mental Health and PTSD

In discussions about the complexities of mental health, the conversation pivoted towards the evolving acceptance and interest in using psychedelics, such as psilocybin, to treat conditions like depression, anxiety, PTSD, and other issues. The conversation covered the impacts of mental health, which cuts across all demographic lines, and how social media and societal stressors play a role in mental health challenges.

Psilocybin and psychedelics for depression, anxiety, PTSD, and other mental health issues

How psychedelics and functional mushrooms work to treat mental health issues at a cellular level and change brain pathways

Natanya Wachtel spoke about her shift in focus towards psychedelics after noting the limited effectiveness of traditional medicines like Cymbalta. She was struck by stories of those with PTSD undergoing life-changing experiences under clinical supervision with psychedelics, resulting in the cessation of their PTSD symptoms. Psychedelics like mushrooms are suggested to work on mental health issues more effectively than traditional medications, possibly through changes in brain cells and neuron activity, which can produce a variety of benefits including a therapeutic gut-brain connection.

Psychedelic retreats, trip sitters, microdosing

Discussions included experiences with Turkey Tail mushrooms, which an individual found healing, and topics covered the need for the right guide during psychedelic healing processes. The uniqueness of MDMA, ketamine, and psilocybin compounds and their varying workings were also discussed. Natanya Wachtel emphasized the importance of clinical evaluation, especially if considering psychedelics while on other medications.

Personal experiences highlighted the significance of setting and intent in psychedelic use. The conversation pointed to places in Brooklyn and retreats like those in Costa Rica as spaces where psychedelics are used under guidance, emphasizing the role of ...

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Mental Health and PTSD

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Psychedelics like psilocybin are being explored for their potential to treat mental health conditions due to their ability to induce profound changes in consciousness. Research suggests that these substances may work on mental health issues by affecting brain pathways and neural connections, leading to therapeutic effects. Controlled administration of psychedelics in clinical settings has shown promising results in alleviating symptoms of conditions like depression, anxiety, and PTSD. The use of psychedelics for mental health treatment is a growing area of interest but is still subject to ongoing research and regulatory considerations.
  • Psychedelic retreats are structured environments where individuals can safely explore the effects of psychedelics under supervision. Trip sitters are individuals who provide support and guidance during psychedelic experiences to ensure safety and comfort. Microdosing involves taking sub-perceptual doses of psychedelics to potentially benefit mental health without inducing a full psychedelic experience. These practices are often used in conjunction with therapy to enhance the therapeutic effects of psychedelics for mental health treatment.
  • Legal inconsistencies regarding substance use across different states can arise due to varying state laws and regulations concerning the use of certain substances like psychedelics. Some states may have more lenient laws regarding the possession or use of these substances for therapeutic purposes, while others may have stricter regulations or even criminalize their use. This can create challenges for individuals seeking access to psychedelic-assisted therapy or plant-based medicine depending on where they reside within the United States. The lack of uniformity in laws across states can impact the availability and legality of these treatments, leading to disparities in access and potential legal risks for individuals seeking alternative mental health therapies.
  • Trip sitters are individuals who supervise and provide support during psychedelic experiences to ensure the safety and well-being of the person undergoing the journey. They are typically experienced and trained in handling the effects of psychedelics and guiding individuals thro ...

Counterarguments

  • Concerns about the long-term effects of psychedelics on mental health are not fully understood, and more research is needed to ensure safety.
  • The effectiveness of psychedelics may be overstated without considering the potential for placebo effects or the impact of the therapeutic environment.
  • Psychedelics are not a one-size-fits-all solution and may not be suitable for all individuals with mental health conditions.
  • The potential for abuse and the development of psychological dependence on psychedelics cannot be ignored.
  • The role of trip sitters and the environment in which psychedelics are taken may be overemphasized, detracting from the need for comprehensive mental health treatment.
  • Legalization and accessibility of psychedelics could lead to increased recreational use and potential public health issues.
  • The cost and qualifications of trip sitters could create a barrier to access and may not be regulated, leading to inconsistent quality of care.
  • M ...

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Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

AI, Technology, and the Future

A group of speakers delve into the complex relationship between AI, technology, society, and mental health, weighing both the detrimental and beneficial influences tech can have on our lives.

How AI and technology are negatively impacting society and mental health

The speakers voice concerns about online platforms exacerbating mental health issues through filters and idealized portrayals of life that don't reflect reality. Such portrayals create unrealistic standards, fuel dissatisfaction in personal relationships, and contribute to a distorted sense of reality. There is a consensus that the evolution of AI technology is likely to have severe negative ramifications for society and individual mental well-being, particularly as it becomes increasingly difficult to discern real from manufactured content, which could mislead the public and stir unnecessary panic, as with AI-generated images depicting false catastrophic events.

Participants express being overwhelmed by the manipulative potential of such technology, fearing that the direction of technological progress might not only lead to a societal reset but could also signify a return to more oppressive times. It is argued that the advance of technology could disconnect people from simple, soothing activities like star-gazing, increasing stress and dependence on technology. With a plan that seems to stupefy the population through passive entertainment like TV and video games, technology is suggested to be reducing societal engagement and mental well-being.

Natanya Wachtel touches on the possibility of technology reaching a point where it could control the mind, while Jay Savino worries that reliance on AI and social media platforms like TikTok could erode genuine human connections. Further despair is voiced over Elon Musk's technological advancements, such as brain chips, and the social divide with some rejecting technology altogether. Disturbing references to the elite's pursuit of an "artificial God intelligence" evokes unease regarding the control and direction of technology’s societal impact.

Using empathy-based AI and technologies to imp ...

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AI, Technology, and the Future

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • AI-generated images depicting false catastrophic events are computer-generated visuals created using artificial intelligence algorithms. These images can be manipulated to appear realistic and depict scenarios that never occurred in reality. They have the potential to mislead viewers and create panic by presenting fabricated disasters or events as if they were genuine, blurring the line between fact and fiction in the digital realm.
  • Elon Musk's technological advancements, like brain chips, refer to his ventures in developing neural interface technology through his company Neuralink. These brain chips aim to create a direct interface between the human brain and computers, potentially enabling enhanced communication and control ov ...

Counterarguments

  • Online platforms also offer support communities and access to mental health resources, which can be beneficial for those who may not have access to such support in their offline lives.
  • AI and technology can enhance critical thinking and media literacy by encouraging users to question the authenticity of content and seek out reliable sources.
  • Technology can connect people to nature through apps and platforms that promote outdoor activities, environmental education, and star-gazing events.
  • Passive entertainment like TV and video games can also have positive effects, such as providing relaxation, improving cognitive skills, and offering educational content.
  • The advancement of technology can lead to increased societal engagement through digital activism, online community building, and greater access to information.
  • Technology can empower individuals with tools for self-expression, creativity, and personal growth, which can contribute positively to mental well-being.
  • Concerns about mind-controlling technology may be overblown, as there are ethical frameworks and regulations in place to prevent misuse and protect individual autonomy.
  • Elon Musk's technological advancements could also lead to breakthroughs in medical science, such as helping people with paralysis regain mobility or communication abilities.
  • The pursuit of advanced AI could lead to significant societal benefits, such as improve ...

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Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

Helping Youth and Marginalized Groups

Natanya Wachtel and others are advocating for increased support for the mental health of youth, emphasizing the power of community, mentorship, and empathy.

Evermore app to provide mentorship, mental health support and community for youth of color

Natanya Wachtel is actively discussing the Evermore app, designed to provide mentorship, mental health support, and a sense of community specifically for youth of color. Although not a licensed therapist, Wachtel is passionate about mental health and has surrounded herself with knowledgeable individuals to develop the app, which includes features to detect self-harm and harmful intentions towards others. The app is aimed at Gen Z but is also suitable for adults, using game theory components to engage users and a Buzzfeed-style quiz to help them imagine positive futures.

The Evermore app functions as a closed-loop system where users can anonymously share experiences, such as bad breakups, without the pressure of competition or performance, in a supportive environment. Its goal is to inspire young people to envision future possibilities, offering a form of hope to escape from negative spirals. The framework used in the app, unlocking the "superhero within," can be adapted for adults, though presented differently.

Wachtel found inspiration in Ivy's initial project and decided to become more involved in the Evermore app due to its impact and potential. Committed to the app's mission over financial return, she is determined to make health and education appealing to prevent suicide, starting with raising awareness. Furthermore, Wachtel underscores the significance of individuals feeling seen and acknowledged, drawing attention to resources like the national suicide hotline.

Importance of community, empathy and human connections across groups to improve mental health

The importance of community and empathy is a recurring theme, which Wachtel champions by advocating for the impact of personal energy and care through actions such as sending handwritten cards. Tommy T and Jay Savino also reflect on the profound effect of empathy and human connection, with S ...

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Helping Youth and Marginalized Groups

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The "superhero within" framework in the Evermore app is a concept that encourages users to tap into their inner strength and resilience, likening them to superheroes facing challenges. This framework aims to empower users to see themselves as capable of overcoming difficulties and envisioning positive futures. By adopting this mindset, individuals are encouraged to believe in their own potential and ability to navigate life's obstacles with courage and determination. The app uses this framework to inspire hope and motivation among users, especially youth, by framing their struggles as opportunities for growth and transformation.
  • Women Who Create, a nonprofit mentor and scholarship program for women of color, faced challenges last year due to a lack of donations. This financial difficulty impacted the o ...

Counterarguments

  • The Evermore app's reliance on non-licensed individuals for mental health support may raise concerns about the quality and safety of the advice given, compared to professional mental health services.
  • The app's features for detecting self-harm and harmful intentions could potentially lead to privacy issues or false positives, which might cause undue stress for users.
  • While game theory components and quizzes can be engaging, there is a risk that they oversimplify complex mental health issues or fail to provide the depth of support some individuals may need.
  • The focus on youth of color, while addressing a specific need, might unintentionally exclude or overlook other marginalized groups who also require mental health support.
  • Prioritizing the mission over financial return is noble, but long-term sustainability of the app may be compromised if there isn't a viable business model to support its operations.
  • The effectiveness of community and empathy in improving mental health, while widely supported, may not be sufficient for individuals with severe mental health conditions who might r ...

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Dr. Natanya Wachtel, Jay Savino. Behavioral Psychology Scientist, Magic of Fungi. Potions in Motion Founder & CEO | Mscs Media #374

Placebo Effect and Self-Healing

Natanya Wachtel delves into the fascinating intersection of belief, mindset, and the mind-body connection to explore the placebo effect and its role in self-healing.

The science, evidence and possibilities around the mind-body connection and the placebo effect for healing

Wachtel’s own experiences have led her to embrace the potential that the mind possesses in contributing to physical healing, an idea she argues modern society may have distanced itself from.

Drawing inspiration from Dr. Joe Dispenza’s book "You Are The Placebo," Wachtel investigates how beliefs and mindset can promote healing — a probing into the mind-body connection and the placebo effect. She explains the placebo effect as the phenomenon where a patient's condition improves using an inert substance or a sham intervention, purely because of their belief in the treatment.

Wachtel finds it intriguing how someone could get better without the actual medicine or surgery and explores what mechanisms might be operating beneath the surface. She raises examples of the placebo effect in action, such as with cancer treatments and mental health medications, where proving effectiveness against a placebo in controlled trials is a significant challenge.

To support the credibility of self-healing, Wachtel underlines the necessity of substantial research and meta-analyses using large population sizes.

In discussing psychedelics, Wachtel posits that the intention and belief in their efficacy can trigger the brain to produce the necessary chemicals for the desired effect. This concept parallels her idea of "downloading" instructions to the brain to actualize improvements in life, epitomizing the utilization of the mind to induce physical changes.

Techniques to activate the placebo effect and self-healing

While Wachtel doesn’t explicitly list specific tech ...

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Placebo Effect and Self-Healing

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The placebo effect is a phenomenon where a person experiences a real improvement in their condition after receiving a treatment that has no therapeutic effect. This improvement is attributed to the individual's belief in the treatment rather than the treatment itself. The mind-body connection plays a crucial role in how beliefs and mindset can influence physical healing through the placebo effect. Self-healing involves utilizing the power of the mind to induce positive changes in health outcomes, often through belief, intention, and the activation of the placebo effect.
  • The mind-body connection explores how thoughts, emotions, and beliefs can influence physical health and healing processes. This connection suggests that mental states can impact bodily functions and overall well-being. Research indicates that factors like stress, mindset, and beliefs can affect the body's immune system, hormones, and even recovery from illnesses. Understanding and harnessing this connection can potentially enhance self-healing and well-being.
  • Beliefs and mindset can promote healing through the placebo effect by influencing the brain's response to a treatment. When a person believes a treatment will work, their brain can release chemicals that help alleviate symptoms, even if the treatment itself is inert. This mind-body connection showcases the power of the brain in influencing physical health outcomes. The placebo effect highlights how our beliefs and expectations can play a significant role in the healing process.
  • The placebo effect in cancer treatments and mental health medications occurs when patients experience improvements in their conditions after receiving a treatment that has no therapeutic effect. This phenomenon highlights the significant role of belief and mindset in influencing health outcomes. In cancer trials, researchers often compare the effectiveness of a new treatment to a placebo to determine the true impact of the medication. Similarly, in mental health studies, the placebo effect can complicate the evaluation of new drugs by showing improvements even when the patient receives a placebo instead of the actual medication.
  • To activate the placebo effect and self-healing through leveraging belief and intention involves using the power of the mind to influence physical well-being. By cultivating strong beliefs in the effectiveness of a treatm ...

Counterarguments

  • The placebo effect, while significant, should not be overestimated as it cannot replace conventional medical treatments for many serious conditions.
  • The role of belief and mindset in healing is complex and not fully understood; it may not be as direct or powerful as suggested.
  • Improvements attributed to the placebo effect in clinical trials may sometimes be due to natural disease progression, regression to the mean, or other confounding factors.
  • The ethical implications of using placebos or self-deception in treatment are contentious, as they may involve withholding information or consent from patients.
  • The evidence supporting the efficacy of psychedelics is still emerging, and their use is not universally accepted or legal in many jurisdictions.
  • While research and meta-analyses are important, they must be carefully designed to avoid biases and misinterpretation of the placebo effect's role in healing.
  • The concept of "downloading" instructions to the brain is metaphorical and lacks a clear scientific basis for how this process would work physiologically.
  • Self-suggestion and the power of intention, although potentially beneficial, may not be sufficient ...

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