Podcasts > This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von > E523 Georges St-Pierre

E523 Georges St-Pierre

By Theo Von

In this episode of This Past Weekend w/ Theo Von, former UFC champion Georges St-Pierre sheds light on the demanding psychological pressures and obsessive pursuit of perfection that drove his athletic prowess, as well as the anxiety and negative visualization tactics he employed to avoid psychological scarring. St-Pierre also shares insights into his contentious relationship with UFC president Dana White over contract negotiations, the UFC's monopolistic influence, the competitive advantages created by performance-enhancing drugs, and the physicality debate surrounding male-to-female transgender athletes.

Beyond the octagon, St-Pierre provides a glimpse into his post-fighting endeavors, including his passion for paleontology and his entrepreneurial venture into home fitness. The episode also delves into the motivations rooted in St-Pierre's childhood experiences, such as being bullied and his profound encounter with a silverback gorilla that shaped his perspective.

E523 Georges St-Pierre

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E523 Georges St-Pierre

1-Page Summary

The Psychology and Mentality of Being an Elite Fighter

Georges St-Pierre, a former UFC champion, reflects on his obsessive-compulsive tendencies and calculating nature which fueled his perfectionism but also led to intense anxiety before fights. He visualized negative scenarios like being dropped, but forced positive outcomes to prevent psychological scarring. Despite disliking the brutality of fighting, he endured it to achieve the lifestyle he desired.

The Business and Politics of Professional MMA

St-Pierre shares insights into his contentious relationship with UFC president Dana White, with clashes driven by St-Pierre's growing leverage as a champion to negotiate better compensation and control. St-Pierre highlights the UFC's monopoly power hindering athletes' ability to negotiate, unlike sports with competition. He calls for fighters to unite and obtain better representation.

Ethical and Fairness Issues in Combat Sports

St-Pierre expresses concern over unfair competitive advantages gained through performance-enhancing drugs, questioning the UFC's commitment to fair testing and regulation. He firmly believes male-to-female transgender fighters have an inherent physical edge over biological women, advocating for separate divisions to ensure fairness.

Transitioning from Fighting to Entrepreneurship and Paleontology

Since retiring, the perfectionist drive that fueled St-Pierre's fighting career has shifted into business pursuits like his home fitness brand Base Block Pro, for which he maintains an active role. While passionate about paleontology, he found the patience required for fieldwork challenging.

Personal Life and Early Experiences

St-Pierre had a profound encounter with a silverback gorilla that highlighted the power of wild animals despite his own fighting skills. He also shares how being bullied as a child motivated him to begin martial arts training, ultimately leading to his MMA career.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While St-Pierre's obsessive-compulsive tendencies may have fueled his perfectionism, it's also possible that his success was due to a combination of innate talent, hard work, and good coaching, rather than solely his psychological traits.
  • The visualization of negative scenarios could be argued as a common practice among athletes to prepare for adversity, not necessarily unique to St-Pierre or indicative of psychological scarring.
  • Some might argue that enduring the brutality of fighting for lifestyle benefits raises ethical questions about the motivations behind participating in violent sports.
  • The contentious relationship with Dana White could be seen as a typical power struggle between an athlete and management, which is common in many professional sports.
  • The UFC's monopoly power might be defended by some as a result of the organization's successful branding and promotion of the sport, which has benefited fighters by increasing visibility and earnings potential.
  • The call for fighters to unite for better representation could be met with skepticism regarding the feasibility and effectiveness of such unity in an individualistic sport like MMA.
  • Concerns over performance-enhancing drugs are widespread in sports, and some might argue that the UFC has made significant efforts to combat doping, such as partnering with the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA).
  • The issue of male-to-female transgender fighters competing against biological women is complex, and some might argue for a more nuanced approach than separate divisions, considering scientific, ethical, and inclusivity factors.
  • Transitioning from fighting to entrepreneurship is not unique to St-Pierre, and some might question whether his success in business is due to his fame rather than business acumen.
  • The challenge of patience in paleontology could be seen as a personal limitation rather than a reflection on the field itself, which many find rewarding despite its slow pace.
  • The encounter with a silverback gorilla, while profound, might not be directly relevant to St-Pierre's fighting skills or career, but rather a personal anecdote illustrating respect for nature.
  • The narrative of overcoming childhood bullying through martial arts is a common trope that could be criticized for oversimplifying the complex journey and motivations involved in becoming a professional fighter.

Actionables

  • You can use visualization techniques to manage anxiety by imagining yourself in a challenging situation and then picturing a successful outcome. For instance, if public speaking makes you nervous, visualize yourself on stage, feeling the initial discomfort, and then see yourself delivering a powerful speech that engages the audience. This mental rehearsal can build confidence and reduce anxiety over time.
  • Develop a personal reward system to endure unpleasant tasks that lead to desired outcomes. If you dislike a particular aspect of your job but appreciate the lifestyle it affords you, set up small rewards for completing those tasks, like treating yourself to a favorite coffee or taking a short walk after a tough meeting. This can help you associate positive feelings with the task and make it more bearable.
  • Advocate for fairness in your community or workplace by supporting or creating initiatives that promote equal opportunities. If you notice an unfair advantage or policy in your environment, you could start a conversation with peers or superiors about implementing fairer practices. For example, if you see that certain team members are consistently given preferable assignments, suggest a rotation system to ensure everyone gets equal exposure and opportunity.

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E523 Georges St-Pierre

The psychology and mentality of being an elite fighter

Georges St-Pierre, a former UFC champion, reveals the mental and psychological challenges he faced as an elite fighter, including his obsession with perfection and his sharp awareness of the risks of fighting.

Georges St-Pierre was a perfectionistic, obsessive-compulsive fighter who constantly agonized over potential negative outcomes before fights.

St-Pierre discusses his obsessive nature, indicating that he may have obsessive-compulsive tendencies though not officially diagnosed. This nature led him to endlessly calculate outcomes even subconsciously, an attribute he believes can be valuable for athletic performance. Nevertheless, he acknowledges the importance of knowing when to let go, comparing it to punching in and punching out; sometimes a difficult but necessary discipline.

St-Pierre admits to enduring an extreme level of nervousness leading up to fights, as he always perceived fight day as the worst day of his life. This nervousness resulted in a poor night's sleep and waking up feeling anxious on the day of the fight. Even after his fights, he would often feel ashamed and not proud, especially following a loss, which led him to seek the assistance of a sports psychologist.

The fighter describes preparing for fights by visualizing a plethora of scenarios, including negative outcomes. He stressed the importance of ending these intense visualization sessions on a victorious note to avoid mental scarring. For instance, if he visualized getting dropped in a fight, he would always end the scenario with himself regaining control.

St-Pierre viewed fighting as a necessary sacrifice to achieve the freedom and lifestyle he desired, despite deeply disliking the act of fighting itself.

St-Pierre frankly stated that although he appreciated the science of the sport and enjoyed camaraderie during training, he found the act of fighting unbearable and extremely uncomfortable. The uncertainty of the outcome—getting hurt, humiliated, or achieving victory—made the process deeply disturbing for him. However, he endured this discomfort because he saw it as a necessary means to attain the life and freedom he desired outside the Octagon.

St-Pierre credits his ability to step outside his comfort zone and learn from failures as key to his success, in contrast to others who stayed in their comfort zones.

Georges St-Pierre highlighted the necessity of stepping out of one's comfort zone for improvement—a practice he regularly adopted, unlike many athletes who choose to remain within their familiar zones. ...

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The psychology and mentality of being an elite fighter

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Counterarguments

  • While St-Pierre's perfectionism and obsessive tendencies may have contributed to his success, it's also possible that these traits could lead to burnout or mental health issues, suggesting that a more balanced approach could be beneficial for some athletes.
  • The view of fighting as a necessary sacrifice might not resonate with all fighters; some may find intrinsic joy and fulfillment in the competition itself, rather than viewing it as a means to an end.
  • The emphasis on ste ...

Actionables

  • You can embrace discomfort by setting a weekly challenge to do something you fear or dislike, tracking your feelings and outcomes in a journal. This could be as simple as initiating a conversation with a stranger or trying a new food you've always avoided. The act of consistently facing small fears can help you grow more comfortable with discomfort, much like St-Pierre did with fighting.
  • Develop a "perfectionist recovery" routine by deliberately practicing an activity with the intention of not achieving perfection. For example, if you're learning to draw, set a timer for five minutes and create a quick sketch without erasing any mistakes. This exercise can help you to appreciate the learning process and reduce the stress associated with perfectionism.
  • Create a personal "freedom ...

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E523 Georges St-Pierre

The business and politics of professional MMA

In the combat sports landscape, few organizations hold as much sway and influence as the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC). Georges St-Pierre, a former champion, provides a candid perspective on the challenging business dynamics and politics within professional mixed martial arts (MMA), particularly in relation to the UFC and its president, Dana White.

St-Pierre had many clashes with UFC president Dana White over control and compensation, as his leverage increased as a champion.

The transcript reveals that St-Pierre's relationship with Dana White was often contentious, framed as a "chess game" based on their conflicting interests. These confrontations were rooted in St-Pierre's growing power as a champion, which afforded him the leverage to push back against the UFC on certain demands.

St-Pierre indicates that his leverage allowed him to assert his interests more forcefully than other fighters might have been able to do. As his value to the organization grew, so did his bargaining position. He speaks about the importance of getting a share of the pay-per-view revenue to motivate him to participate in promotions and interviews. St-Pierre also notes that as a champion, his time became more valuable and this changed the dynamics of negotiations.

St-Pierre advises that fighters should be well-managed and unafraid to negotiate for what they are worth, but he acknowledges that many in the industry may feel intimidated or unsure of how to approach such negotiations effectively.

The UFC's monopoly power made it difficult for fighters to have strong negotiating power, unlike in other sports with more competition.

St-Pierre discusses the UFC’s dominant position in MMA, likening it to a monopoly. Because the UFC is the most prestigious organization in the sport, it becomes difficult for fighters to hold a strong position in negotiations. Contrastingly, in sports where multiple leagues exist, athletes are often able ...

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The business and politics of professional MMA

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Clarifications

  • In professional MMA, negotiations between fighters and organizations like the UFC involve discussions on compensation, fight terms, and promotional obligations. Fighters with leverage, often champions or popular athletes, can negotiate for a share of pay-per-view revenue and better terms. The UFC's dominant position in the sport can limit fighters' negotiating power compared to sports with more competition. Lack of a strong fighters' union or association can put fighters at a disadvantage in negotiations.
  • The pay-per-view revenue is crucial for fighters as it directly ties their earnings to the success of the event. Fighters often negotiate for a share of this revenue to increase their compensation. This incentivizes fighters to promote the event, participate in interviews, and attract viewers, as their earnings are linked to the event's financial success. Essentially, the more pay-per-view buys an event gets, the more money the fighters involved can potentially earn.
  • A fighter's championship status in MMA can significantly impact their negotiating power with organizations like the UFC. Champions often have more leverage due to their value to the promotion, allowing them to push for better compensation and control over certain aspects of their career. This leverage can lead to more favorable terms in negotiations, such as a share of pay-per-view revenue and increased influence in decision-making processes. Additionally, as champions become more prominent, their time and value to the organization increase, altering the dynamics of their contractual discussions.
  • The UFC's monopoly power in MMA means that it holds a dominant and nearly exclusive position in the industry, making it the most prominent and prestigious organization in the sport. This dominance can limit fighters' negotiating power and leverage, as there are few alternative platforms for them to compete on or seek better terms. Unlike in sports with multiple competing leagues, MMA fighters often have fewer options for securing favorable contracts and compensation due to the UFC's overwhelming influence.
  • In the context of the lack of diverse representation in the UFC, it typically refers to the underrepresentation of fighters from various backgrounds, such as different ethnicities, nationalities, or genders, in prominent positions or opportunities within the organization. This lack of diversity can impact the perspectives and experiences brought to the forefront in the sport, potentially influencing decision-making processes and opportunities available to a wider range of fighters. It can also relate to the absence of diverse voices in leadership roles or decision-making positions within the UFC, which may affect the inclusivity and fairness of policies and practices within the organization. Addressing this issue could involve promoting greater inclusivity and representation of fighters from diverse backgrounds, ensuring a more equitable and varied representation of perspectives and talents within the sport.
  • Fighters' unions or associations in the context of professional MMA are organizations formed by fighters to collectively advocate for their rights and interests. These groups aim to provide fighters with a unified voice in negotiations with promotions, such as the UFC, to address issues like fair compensation, healthcare, and working conditions. By banding together, fighters can potentially increase their bargaining power and influence within the industry, similar to how labor unions operate in other sectors. The presence of a strong fighters' union or association can help balance the power dynamics between fighters and promotions, leading to more equitable treatment and opportunities for athletes in the sport.
  • The Professional Fighters League (PFL) is a mixed martial arts (MMA) organization that operates as a competitor to the UFC. PFL differentiates itself with a unique format featuring regular season, playoffs, and championship events, offering fighters the opportunity to compete for significant prize money. It aims to provide a platform for fighters to showcase their skills and p ...

Counterarguments

  • While St-Pierre's leverage as a champion gave him a stronger bargaining position, it's possible that his individual success and fame do not necessarily translate to the same level of leverage for other fighters, who may not have the same marketability or negotiating skills.
  • The UFC's share of pay-per-view revenue is a business model decision, and the organization might argue that this structure is necessary to cover operational costs and invest in the growth of the sport.
  • The value of a champion's time increasing could be seen as a natural progression in any sport or entertainment industry, and not unique to St-Pierre or the UFC.
  • The advice for fighters to be well-managed and negotiate for fair compensation could be criticized for not acknowledging the reality that not all fighters have access to high-quality management or the financial means to secure such representation.
  • The UFC's dominant position in the market could be defended on the grounds that it has invested heavily in promoting MMA globally and that its success has benefited fighters by providing a larger platform and audience.
  • The lack of competition in MMA could be attributed to the UFC's effectiveness in promoting its brand and athletes, which could be seen as a testament to its business acumen rather than a deliberate attempt to suppress competition.
  • The absence of a strong fighters' union is a complex issue, and the ...

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E523 Georges St-Pierre

Ethical and fairness issues in combat sports

Former mixed martial artist Georges St-Pierre raises significant concerns about fairness in combat sports, discussing both the prevalence of performance-enhancing drugs and the debate surrounding transgender athletes.

St-Pierre is concerned about the use of performance-enhancing drugs in MMA and believes it gives some fighters an unfair advantage.

St-Pierre emphasizes the major problem with performance-enhancing drugs in MMA. He believes these drugs give fighters unnatural advantages in stamina, strength, recovery, reaction time, and even creativity. He shares his personal observations, witnessing the stark contrast in performance when his peers use such substances. St-Pierre's advocacy for drug testing during his career, especially before his fights against Hendrix and BGP, was driven by his commitment to the traditional martial arts values of respect and fairness. He felt that the system failed to support these values adequately, which contributed to his sabbatical from the sport for over four years.

St-Pierre wished the UFC had a more robust and independent drug testing regime when he was competing, rather than one controlled by the promotion.

St-Pierre criticizes the UFC's drug testing practices, pointing out that many champions faced losses when USADA enforcement began. This change hinted at the previous imbalance due to unchecked performance-enhancing drug use. With subtle hints about how athletes might avoid testing and the possibility of organizing defenses for failed tests using excuses like tainted supplements, he suggests that the UFC might prioritize profits over sport integrity. He advocates for independent drug testing to minimize corruption and conflicts of interest within the organization, citing examples of how critical test results could be suppressed by the promotion to protect profits from major events.

St-Pierre believ ...

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Ethical and fairness issues in combat sports

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) is a combat sport that combines various fighting techniques like striking, grappling, and ground fighting from different martial arts disciplines. It originated from inter-stylistic contests in Japan and Brazil, evolving into a regulated sport with organizations like the UFC promoting events with fighters from diverse backgrounds. MMA fighters compete in a cage or ring, aiming to win by knockout, submission, or judges' decision. The sport has gained popularity worldwide for its dynamic and versatile nature, showcasing athletes' skills in both stand-up and ground fighting.
  • The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) is an independent organization responsible for overseeing anti-doping efforts in the United States, particularly in Olympic and Paralympic sports. USADA conducts testing, manages results, and promotes clean competition by preventing the use of performance-enhancing substances. It operates under the World Anti-Doping Code and is known for its rigorous anti-doping programs to maintain the integrity of sports. Travis Tygart has been the CEO of USADA since 2007.
  • Cisgender, often shortened to cis, describes individuals whose gender identity aligns with the sex they were assigned at birth. This term is used to differentiate individuals who are not transgender. The prefix "cis-" is Latin for "on this side of," contrasting with "trans-" meaning "across from" or "on the other side of." The concept of cisgender is important in discussions about gender identity and diversity.
  • Transgender athletes competing in combat sports can raise complex debates due to concerns about fairness and physical advantages. The discussion often revolves around the potential differences in strength, speed, and other physical attributes ...

Counterarguments

  • The effectiveness of performance-enhancing drugs can vary, and not all athletes who use them may gain a significant advantage, as success in combat sports also heavily relies on skill, strategy, and mental toughness.
  • Some argue that the UFC's partnership with USADA represents one of the most rigorous anti-doping programs in professional sports, suggesting that while not perfect, it has made significant strides in catching and deterring drug cheats.
  • There is a debate within the scientific community about the extent of physical advantages held by transgender women, with some research suggesting that hormone therapy can significantly reduce any physiological benefits related to muscle mass and strength.
  • The creation of separate divisions for transgender athletes could lead to further stigmatization and marginalization of an already vulnerable group, and it may not be ...

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E523 Georges St-Pierre

Transitioning from a fighting career to other pursuits

Georges St-Pierre, widely known for his illustrious fighting career, is now finding equal success and fulfillment in entrepreneurial ventures and other interests, like paleontology, following his retirement from mixed martial arts.

Entrepreneurial Ventures Post-Retirement

Since retiring, St-Pierre has channeled his perfectionist drive and competitive spirit into his home fitness equipment brand, Base Block Pro.

Building Business with a Fighter's Mentality

St-Pierre discusses his involvement with Base Block Pro, noting that the products are designed for home training and sold internationally. He suggests that this entrepreneurial pursuit represents a shift from his fighting career to business. St-Pierre recommends kinesthetic training, which uses body weight, and emphasizes that his products cater to this form of exercise. He asserts that working out with body weight reduces the risk of injury and is more efficient than traditional weightlifting. He even personally offers to send some fitness equipment to the interviewer, Theo Von, demonstrating his active role in the enterprise and implying the personal connection he maintains with his brand and his customers. Reflecting on his transition, St-Pierre mentions, "I'm more of an entrepreneur now and that's my goal. I'm very lucky. I was able to transfer that, that hunger that I had in mixed martial arts. Now I transfer it into, you know, into a business."

Passion for Paleontology

While he remains a fan of paleontology, St-Pierre came to realize that he did not have the patience or meticulous nature necessary to be a successful paleontologist himself.

Engaging with Paleontology in Retirement

St-Pierre expresses his enduring love for pal ...

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Transitioning from a fighting career to other pursuits

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While St-Pierre may have found success in his entrepreneurial ventures, it's not uncommon for athletes to face significant challenges when transitioning to business due to a lack of formal business training or experience.
  • Recommending kinesthetic training using body weight is a valid approach, but it may not be suitable for everyone's fitness goals, such as those looking to significantly increase muscle mass or strength through traditional weightlifting.
  • Personal engagement in business, like offering to send fitness equipment to an interviewer, is a positive gesture but may not necessarily scale or be indicative of the overall customer experience with Base Block Pro.
  • Transitioning the drive from a sports career to business is commendable, but the skills and environment are very different, and success in one does not always guarantee success in the other.
  • While St-Pierre's passion for paleontolo ...

Actionables

  • You can explore a new hobby by dedicating one day each month to learning about a subject you've always been curious about, like paleontology, through online courses or local museum visits.
    • This approach allows you to dive into a new interest without the pressure of becoming an expert. For example, if dinosaurs fascinate you, you might spend a day at a natural history museum or take a virtual tour of a paleontological site, giving you a taste of the field in a fun and manageable way.
  • Start a small-scale home fitness challenge with friends or family using everyday household items as equipment to promote health and camaraderie.
    • Instead of investing in professional gear, get creative with items like chairs for dips, stairs for cardio, and water bottles for weights. This can make fitness more accessible and enjoyable, and you can track progress together through a shared online document or app.
  • Reflect on your past experiences and identi ...

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E523 Georges St-Pierre

Personal interests and experiences outside of fighting

Georges St-Pierre, commonly known as GSP, shares personal stories that reveal his respect for wildlife and detail his journey from a bullied child to a mixed martial arts (MMA) champion.

St-Pierre had a profound experience trekking with mountain gorillas in Rwanda, which gave him a deep respect for the power and danger of wild animals.

St-Pierre recounts his adventure in Rwanda, where he went trekking with mountain gorillas. He describes an intense interaction with a silverback gorilla, where he realized his own vulnerability despite being a skilled fighter. St-Pierre was extremely cautious in the presence of the silverback, acknowledging the gorilla could have easily overpowered and killed him.

During the trek, St-Pierre followed strict guidelines: he was instructed not to eat, to avoid eye contact with the gorillas, not to run away but instead to move out of the way with a submissive posture if approached, to speak softly, and to never touch the females or the young. The silverback eventually acknowledged St-Pierre’s submissiveness by turning his back and looking over his shoulder, indicating he did not perceive him as a threat. St-Pierre expressed his awe at the muscle definition of the gorillas and recommended the experience, adding that the fees paid for the trek contribute to gorilla conservation in Rwanda.

St-Pierre was bullied as a youth, which motivated him to start martial arts training for self-defense, ultimately ...

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Personal interests and experiences outside of fighting

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can foster a deeper appreciation for wildlife by volunteering at a local animal sanctuary or rehabilitation center. This hands-on experience will give you a personal connection to animals and their well-being, similar to the profound respect gained from close encounters with wildlife. For example, assisting with the care of injured wildlife or habitat restoration projects can provide a meaningful understanding of the importance of conservation.
  • Practice conflict resolution by enrolling in a martial arts class that emphasizes discipline and self-control. Martial arts can be a transformative tool for building confidence and learning to handle confrontations peacefully, much like the cautious approach taken when meeting a dominant animal. Look for classes that focus on the philosophy and respect aspects of martial arts, not just the physical techniques.
  • Encourage a balanced approach to personal goals by setting up a mentorshi ...

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