Podcasts > This American Life > 653: Crime Scene

653: Crime Scene

By This American Life

In this episode of This American Life, the summary explores the mental toll that crime scene work takes on people like cleaners and pathologists who are regularly exposed to death and tragedy. It delves into the complexities of interpreting crime scene evidence, showcasing how factors like lack of clues and changing environments can lead to divergent conclusions even among expert analysts.

The summary also touches on attempts by former offenders to make amends and steer youth away from crime. One individual, having relapsed into addiction, strives to be a positive influence by coaching baseball and mentoring kids from his old neighborhood—a role that his renewed sobriety enables him to fulfill.

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653: Crime Scene

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653: Crime Scene

1-Page Summary

Mental and Emotional Toll of Crime Scene Work

Crime scene cleaners like Neil Smither and pathologists like Dr. Drakovich are regularly exposed to death and tragic circumstances, taking a mental health toll. Smither notes he's become desensitized, viewing most people as "dirty" after observing how they live.

Challenges Interpreting Crime Scene Evidence

Ira Glass highlights the difficulties in interpreting crime scene evidence. Autopsy analyses of the same body can reach different conclusions, as seen in the Stephon Clark case. Factors like lack of evidence and changing crime scenes complicate analyses. Forensic pathologists like Dr. Drakovich must piece together subtle clues to determine causes of death, and colleagues may have diverging views interpreting the same evidence, as Togneri explains with a bite mark case.

Attempts to Make Amends, Help Kids Avoid Crime

Bobby, who relapsed into addiction and felt shame, has returned to his former neighborhood to coach a boys' baseball team and mentor troubled youth. Bobby recognizes his past behaviors in one kid, Benjamin, motivating him to be a steady role model. Staying sober enables Bobby to be that reliable presence, increasing his chances to positively influence the kids and guide them away from crime.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Neil Smither is a crime scene cleaner who specializes in cleaning up after traumatic events like homicides and suicides. Dr. Drakovich is a forensic pathologist who performs autopsies to determine causes of death in criminal cases. Both individuals work in fields closely related to crime investigation and are exposed to the aftermath of violent incidents.
  • Challenges in interpreting crime scene evidence can arise due to factors like the lack of evidence, evolving crime scenes, and differing expert opinions. Forensic pathologists must carefully analyze subtle clues to determine causes of death, which can lead to varying conclusions among colleagues. In cases like the Stephon Clark case, where autopsy analyses differ, the complexity of the evidence can complicate the investigative process. This complexity can also be seen in situations like interpreting bite marks, where different experts may have diverging views on the same evidence.
  • Forensic pathologists piece together subtle clues by meticulously examining evidence such as injuries, tissue samples, and other forensic findings to determine the cause of death. They analyze various factors like the nature of wounds, toxicology reports, and the circumstances surrounding the death to form a comprehensive understanding. This process involves a detailed investigation into the physical evidence present at the crime scene and the body itself. By interpreting these subtle clues, forensic pathologists aim to reconstruct the sequence of events leading to the individual's demise.
  • Bobby, who struggled with addiction in the past, has returned to his old neighborhood to coach a boys' baseball team and mentor troubled youth. His personal experiences with addiction and shame allow him to connect with and guide kids who may be facing similar challenges. By staying sober and being a positive role model, Bobby aims to influence the youth in a constructive way, steering them away from potential involvement in criminal activities.

Counterarguments

  • While crime scene cleaners and pathologists may experience a mental health toll, some individuals may have effective coping mechanisms or support systems that mitigate these effects.
  • Not all individuals who work in crime scene cleanup or pathology may become desensitized or have their perception of people negatively affected; some may maintain a compassionate outlook or separate their work from their personal views.
  • The challenge of interpreting crime scene evidence is not unique to this field; many professions require critical analysis of complex data, and differing conclusions can be a sign of a healthy scientific process that encourages further investigation and peer review.
  • The complexity of forensic analyses and the possibility of changing crime scenes are inherent to the nature of the work, but advancements in technology and methodology can improve the accuracy and reliability of forensic evidence over time.
  • While forensic pathologists must piece together subtle clues, the field of forensic science is continually evolving, and collaboration among experts can lead to more accurate determinations of causes of death.
  • Diverging views among colleagues when interpreting the same evidence can be beneficial, as they can lead to more thorough discussions and considerations of alternative explanations, ultimately strengthening the conclusions reached.
  • Bobby's efforts to mentor troubled youth and guide them away from crime are commendable, but it's important to recognize that the impact of one individual, while significant, is part of a larger societal effort that includes education, community support, and social services.
  • Staying sober is an important aspect of Bobby's ability to influence the kids positively, but it's also crucial to acknowledge the role of a supportive community, access to resources, and the individual agency of the kids themselves in their paths away from crime.

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653: Crime Scene

Mental and Emotional Toll of Crime Scene Work

Crime scene work significantly impacts the mental health of those on the frontline, from cleaners to pathologists, who are regularly exposed to death and tragic circumstances.

Stress and trauma of being exposed to death regularly

Cleaners like Neil Smither, who began his crime scene cleanup business after being laid off, have shifted perspectives due to constant exposure to gruesome scenes. Now, four years on from never having seen a dead body, he deals primarily with decompositions and suicides, approaching what many would find distressing with an almost routine attitude.

Pathologists like Dr. Drakovich are also exposed to the emotional toll crime scenes inflict. Handling scenes that could be plagued with aspects of violence, loss, and grief, they must conduct their analyses while managing the psychological impacts of such work.

Cleaners become desensitized; view people as "dirty"

Neil Smither has been changed by his work, to the extent that he views most people as "dirty." After being exposed to many crime scenes and observing how people maintain their living spaces, his perception of what is normal has been significantly altered. Smither now sees "dirt baggery," born from dirty houses filled with old newspapers, uncleaned bathrooms, too many cats, and hoarding situations, as the norm, no ...

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Mental and Emotional Toll of Crime Scene Work

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Neil Smither is a crime scene cleaner who specializes in cleaning up after traumatic events like decompositions and suicides. Crime scene cleanup involves the removal of biohazardous materials, sanitizing the area, and restoring it to a safe and habitable condition. These professionals play a crucial role in restoring spaces affected by tragedies while also facing the emotional toll of regularly encountering distressing scenes. Crime scene cleaners like Neil Smither often develop a desensitization to the graphic nature of their work over time.
  • Pathologists like Dr. Drakovich play a crucial role in examining evidence at crime scenes to determine cause of death and gather forensic information. They face challenges such as dealing with graphic and emotionally distressing scenes, maintaining objectivity in their analysis, and coping with the psychological impact of regularly encountering violent and tragic circumstances. Their work involves not only conducting autopsies but also collaborating with law enforcement to provide critical insights for investigations.
  • "Dirt baggery" is a term used to describe a state of extreme untidiness or filthiness in living spaces. It implies a level of disorganization and uncleanliness that goes beyond typical messiness. In the context of the text, it suggests that Neil Smither, due to his exposure to crime scenes, now perceives such extreme levels of dirtine ...

Counterarguments

  • While crime scene work can impact mental health, not all individuals may experience the same level of stress or trauma, and some may have effective coping mechanisms or resilience.
  • Desensitization can be a natural psychological defense mechanism rather than a negative outcome, allowing professionals to continue their work effectively.
  • The view that people are "dirty" based on their living conditions could be seen as a biased generalization and not representative of the general population.
  • The altered perception of what is normal for Neil Smither may not be universal among crime scene cleaners; others may maintain a separation between their work and personal judgments.
  • The connection between crime scene work and addiction, as implied with Bobby's example, may not be direct or applicable to all individuals in the field.
  • ...

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653: Crime Scene

Challenges Interpreting Crime Scene Evidence

Ira Glass discusses the complexities and challenges that arise during the interpretation of crime scene evidence, particularly with regards to autopsy reports and varying factors that make definitive findings difficult.

Differences in autopsy analyses of same body

When it comes to autopsy analyses, even the same body can yield different conclusions based on who is conducting the procedure and when.

Official/county autopsy happens first, changes crime scene

The county coroner typically conducts the official autopsy first. In the case of Stephon Clark, who was shot by Sacramento police, the county coroner's report suggested that Clark was hit by seven bullets with only three shots to the back.

Independent/family autopsy lacks complete info from first

A second, independent autopsy was conducted at the request of Stephon Clark's family by forensic pathologist Bennett Amalu. However, Dr. Judy Melanick points out that a second autopsy is done after the official one, which alters the condition of the body, leaving the second pathologist at a disadvantage.

Autopsy analyses can reach different conclusions from same evidence

Discrepancies between autopsy reports are frequent; Bennett Amalu's analysis differed from the county's, finding eight gunshot wounds with six to the back. This contrasted with the county's conclusion which later reaffirmed seven bullets and posited that the first shot likely hit the thigh, suggesting that Clark might have been walking towards the officers.

Multiple factors make definitive findings difficult

Determining the cause of death and interpreting crime scene evidence can be fraught with difficulties due to a myriad of factors.

Lack of evidence, changing crime scenes complicate analyses

Lack of sufficient evidence and the inevitable changes that a crime scene goes through can complicate the analysis process. These variations can lead to discrepancies between different examinations.

Require piecing together subtle clues to determine cause of death

Forensic pathologists like Dr. L.J. Drakovich sometimes have to rely on minute clues that can be easily unnoticed. For instance, during one investigati ...

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Challenges Interpreting Crime Scene Evidence

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Stephon Clark, a young black man, was fatally shot by Sacramento police officers in 2018. The official autopsy conducted by the county coroner reported that Clark was hit by seven bullets, with three shots to the back. A second, independent autopsy requested by Clark's family revealed discrepancies, with the forensic pathologist finding eight gunshot wounds, six of which were to the back. These differing conclusions between the two autopsies highlighted the challenges and complexities in interpreting crime scene evidence, especially in cases involving controversial incidents like police shootings.
  • The presence of two holes in the tongue of a deceased young woman is significant in determining the cause of death because it is an unusual finding, especially in cases of self-inflicted gunshot wounds to the mouth. This detail suggests a potential discrepancy from typical patterns seen in such cases, leading to a different interpretation of the injuries. Forensic pathologists like Dr. L.J. Drakovich use such subtle clues to differentiate between suicide and homicide scenarios based on the unique nature of the injuries observed. This specific detail underscores the meticulous and detailed analysis required in forensic investigations to accurately determine the circumstances surrounding a person's death.
  • Forensic professionals may encounte ...

Counterarguments

  • Autopsies conducted by different professionals at different times can provide valuable second opinions that may uncover details missed in the initial examination.
  • The official autopsy is typically conducted with a fresh crime scene, which may provide the most accurate information before any potential contamination or alteration.
  • Independent autopsies, while disadvantaged by not having the first look, can still bring new techniques or perspectives that may be beneficial in the investigation.
  • While discrepancies in autopsy reports can be problematic, they can also stimulate further investigation and discussion, which may lead to a more thorough understanding of the case.
  • The challenges in determining the cause of death and interpreting crime scene evidence underscore the importance of having multiple experts and cross-disciplinary teams working together to corroborate findings.
  • The reliance on subtle clues is a testament to the skill and attention to detail required in forensic pathology, and while it may lead to different int ...

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653: Crime Scene

Attempts to Make Amends, Help Kids Avoid Crime

In a tale of personal redemption and community service, a man named Bobby has taken on the role of coach to positively influence young boys and turn them away from the crime-ridden paths he once walked.

Neighbor/coach Bobby tries to redeem past, guide kids' futures

Bobby's journey is as transformative for him as it hopes to be for the children he mentors. By returning to a place of former turmoil, he forges a future of hope.

Returned to neighborhood parks where he once used drugs

Bobby chooses the very fields he once used as a refuge to give back—transforming an abandoned lot from his scene of despair into a nurturing ground for the community's youth. This field, where he coaches Little League, is symbolic of both his downfall and his determined climb back to a life of purpose.

Volunteers to coach troubled boys' baseball team

By coaching the boys’ baseball team, Bobby takes a direct approach in guiding troubled youth toward better choices. They recognize him as "coach," a mark of respect and acknowledgment of his stable presence.

Sees his old behaviors in kids; tries to be steady role model

Bobby identifies with one of the kids, Benjamin, who exhibits emotional and potentially violent reactions akin to Bobby's former self. This recognition fuels his commitment to be a role model, illustrating the power of change and the importance of addressing one's emotions constructively.

Staying clean enables him to be reliable presence

Remaining clean is more than a personal victory for Bobby—it enables him to be that reliable presence for the kids, offering steady guidance amid the fight against old haunts and habits. He notes the profound impact of stayi ...

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Attempts to Make Amends, Help Kids Avoid Crime

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Bobby, a man with a troubled past involving drug use, has returned to his old neighborhood to coach young boys and steer them away from a life of crime. By volunteering to coach a troubled boys' baseball team, Bobby aims to be a positive influence and role model, drawing from his own experiences to guide the kids towards better choices. His commitment to staying clean and being a reliable presence for the children showcases his dedication to their well-being and highlights the transformative power of personal responsibility and community care. Through his actions and interactions with the boys, Bobby demonstrates the impact of consistent mentoring in fostering growth, resilience, and success in the face of adversity.
  • Bobby coaching in the same neighborhood where he once used drugs is significant because it symbolizes his personal transformation and redemption journey. By returning to the place of his past struggles, he demonstrates a commitment to giving back and making a positive impact on the community. Coaching in this familiar yet challenging environment allows Bobby to connect with the youth on a deeper level, drawing from his own experiences to guide them away from similar pitfalls. It showcases his resilience and determination to turn a negative past into a source of inspiration and hope for the future.
  • Benjamin's emotional and potentially violent reactions mirror the behavior that Bobby, the coach, used to display in the past. This similarity serves as a catalyst for Bobby to become a stable role model for Benjamin and the other boys, guiding them away from negative paths. Bobby's personal experiences allow him to empathize with Benjamin's struggles and provide the support needed to steer him towards healthier emotional responses. Benjamin's reactions highlight the importance of positive mentorship and guidance in helping troubled youth navigate their emotions and behaviors.
  • Staying clean from drugs and maintaining sobriety is crucial for Bobby as it allows him to be a consistent and dependable figure for the children he mentors ...

Counterarguments

  • While Bobby's personal transformation is commendable, it's important to recognize that not all individuals with a troubled past may be suitable or effective as mentors for youth.
  • The story focuses on Bobby's perspective and his impact, but it doesn't address the children's viewpoints or measure the long-term effectiveness of his mentoring.
  • The narrative implies that Bobby's presence alone can significantly influence the kids' futures, but it may oversimplify the complex factors that contribute to youth crime and overlook the need for broader community support and resources.
  • The success of Bobby's coaching is highlighted, but there may be challenges and failures that are not mentioned, which could provide a more balanced understanding of the difficulties involved in such interventions.
  • The story celebrates Bobby's sobriety as a key factor in his ability to mentor, but it doesn't address the ongoing support and resources that might be necessary for someone in recovery to maintain their sobriety while taking on the stress of mentoring at-risk youth.
  • The emphasis on Bobby's role as a male role model may unintentionally undervalue the contributions of female mentors or other figures in th ...

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