In this episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, game creator Elan Lee and Ferriss discuss their approach to designing and testing casual games, including their latest project "Coyote." They share their philosophy of creating games that are quick to learn but offer strategic depth, explaining how they use low-cost prototypes and extensive playtesting with their community to refine game mechanics and instructions.
The conversation also explores the business side of bringing games to market. Lee describes the intricacies of pitching to retail buyers, including the timing of meetings and the value of working with experienced agents. He explains how his team at Exploding Kittens navigates retail partnerships, negotiates favorable terms, and addresses challenges like counterfeiting risks and return policies.

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Lee and Ferriss emphasize the importance of simplicity in game design, focusing on creating casual, fast-paced games that are "two minutes to learn, fifteen minutes to play." Rather than developing complex RPGs, they prioritize games that can be enjoyed during short sessions with friends and family. Lee maintains a notebook of game ideas and uses low-cost prototypes to test mechanics quickly, while Ferriss emphasizes swift, affordable prototyping.
Their game "Coyote" exemplifies their design philosophy of being "easy to learn, challenging to master." The game incorporates both cooperative and competitive play modes, with public card choices in cooperative mode and strategic elements, including sabotage options, in competitive mode. According to Ferriss, the game provides a "brain workout" experience by challenging cognitive flexibility.
Lee describes a rigorous multi-stage playtesting process involving "kiddie test pilots" recruited from their Kickstarter, Discord, and Reddit communities. Their team analyzes recorded gameplay sessions at 4x speed, looking for visual cues like eye rolls and confusion to identify areas needing improvement. With feedback from 400 test families, they continuously refined the game through multiple iterations.
The creators emphasize their "Clear Mind" philosophy when writing game instructions, with Lee approaching the task as if entirely ignorant of the game. This method helps anticipate and address potential questions before they arise, resulting in clear, concise instructions that new players can easily follow.
Lee explains that securing meetings with retail buyers requires strategic planning, suggesting that hiring a publisher with existing relationships can help bypass initial hurdles. Their pitching process involves careful preparation, including live gameplay demonstrations and engaging videos. Lee's agent prepares for up to a year to ensure successful pitches, even timing meetings for right after meals when buyers are likely to be more receptive.
The success of Exploding Kittens has given Lee's team significant leverage in retailer negotiations. They've been able to secure favorable terms and prime shelf placement, even bypassing typical rollout phases with major retailers like Walmart. Lee emphasizes the importance of working with experienced agents who understand the industry and can navigate complex contract terms, including return policies and counterfeiting risks.
1-Page Summary
Lee and Ferriss stress the significance of simplicity and fun in game design. According to Lee, any superfluous game components should be stripped away, as exemplified by replacing extraneous bingo chips with a more straightforward method using the back of cards.
Ferriss realized that an RPG would be too complex for him and his friends for casual play. Instead, he sought to create a casual, fast-paced game suitable for short sessions. Lee's goal was to design games that could be quickly learned and played, adhering to the mantra of "two minutes to learn, fifteen minutes to play". The game "Coyote" is an example of this philosophy, being a fast-paced national bestseller card game.
Lee maintains a notebook filled with game ideas, which he adds to each month, and uses simple prototypes, sometimes scribbled on cards, to explore these ideas. The focus is on using low-cost materials to test and iterate game mechanics quickly. Ferriss also underscores the importance of prototyping affordable and swiftly.
Lee and Ferriss draw on their game design expertise to make engaging, enjoyable games. They strive to develop games that are not just entertaining themselves but make the players entertaining, fostering interactions and creating memorable experiences.
"Coyote" is lauded as a game that embodies the "easy to learn, challenging to master" principle. Bushnell's Law is mentioned, emphasizing the delicate balance of difficulty in game design to avoid games being too easy or too challenging.
Game Design and Prototyping
Through extensive discussions on game development, Tim Ferriss and Elan Lee share insights into the multi-layered playtesting processes that have been crucial for refining their game designs.
Elan Lee discusses using their Kickstarter, Discord, and Reddit communities to recruit groups of families and friends who regularly play games to test prototypes. Lee's company sent out prototypes to these testers with the directive to play the game within 24 hours, record their session, and send back the video for analysis.
In analyzing playtesting feedback, Elan Lee and his team count visual cues like eye rolls and confusion when participants read the instructions to identify whether they enjoy the game or if there are areas in need of improvement. The team watches videos at 4x speed, flags moments indicating confusion or significant reactions, and uses Vimeo for people to upload their playtesting videos. A team reviews these flagged moments, assisting in identifying where changes might be needed, and feedback is used to make changes before distributing the next set of games.
Lee speaks to the importance of continuous iterative refinement, as they often played the game multiple times, implemented changes, and increased the number of test families—totaling 400—to perfect the game through multiple iterations. He illustrated this by testing various aspects of a game character to see which version would be the winner. Elan Lee and his daughter worked on a myriad of game designs, implying a process of iteration and testing different ideas, such as the game name 'Hurry Up Chicken Butt,' which was selected after testing.
Tim Ferriss mentions that simple games go through extensive development, testing, and revisions. He uses the example of action cards and variables in a card game to illustrate the meticulous iteration process. During playtesting, unengaging mechanisms, such as 'shouting' cards, were removed after they proved to be unfavorable. The playtesting journey involved both structured sessions and organic discussions, a blend of disciplined and flexible approaches to game development and iterati ...
Playtesting and Iteration
Navigating the crowded retail market is a challenge for any game creator. From securing meetings with tight-scheduled retail buyers to dealing with complex negotiations, Elan Lee and Tim Ferriss offer insights into the art of selling games to major retailers.
Pitching a new game to retailers requires more than just a creative idea; it involves strategic engagement and careful timing.
Elan Lee explains the difficulty of getting time with retail buyers due to their limited availability for new products. He suggests hiring a publisher who already has a meeting booked as a way to circumvent this challenge. It's critical to ensure your publisher adequately represents your game, focusing on the fun elements.
In preparing for meetings, Lee compares the process to rehearsing for a performance at Carnegie Hall. Lee's agent prepares for a year to ensure successful pitches, and they aim for meeting slots right after meals when buyers are likely in better moods. The approach involves engaging buyers with live gameplay, passionate videos, and engaging demonstrations, like bringing suitcases full of games (even unrelated ones) to convey an expansive brand presence.
Understanding and navigating the complexities of retailer agreements is paramount to protect creators' interests in the volatile retail market.
Lee emphasizes the intricacies of negotiating contract terms, including return policies and the risks of counterfeiting. He suggests collaborating with experienced agents or representatives who understand the industry and can foresee and address potential retail issues.
Agents who are experienced and know the retail market and buyer relationships are invaluable. They provide a bridge between creators and buyers while protecting the creators from the risks associated with retail policies.
The track record of Exploding Kittens and prior successes can significantly alter the dynamics of retailer nego ...
Pitching and Selling To Retailers
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