Podcasts > The Tim Ferriss Show > #821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

By Tim Ferriss: Bestselling Author, Human Guinea Pig

In this episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, game creator Elan Lee and Ferriss discuss their approach to designing and testing casual games, including their latest project "Coyote." They share their philosophy of creating games that are quick to learn but offer strategic depth, explaining how they use low-cost prototypes and extensive playtesting with their community to refine game mechanics and instructions.

The conversation also explores the business side of bringing games to market. Lee describes the intricacies of pitching to retail buyers, including the timing of meetings and the value of working with experienced agents. He explains how his team at Exploding Kittens navigates retail partnerships, negotiates favorable terms, and addresses challenges like counterfeiting risks and return policies.

#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Aug 5, 2025 episode of the The Tim Ferriss Show

Sign up for Shortform to access the whole episode summary along with additional materials like counterarguments and context.

#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

1-Page Summary

Game Design and Prototyping

Lee and Ferriss emphasize the importance of simplicity in game design, focusing on creating casual, fast-paced games that are "two minutes to learn, fifteen minutes to play." Rather than developing complex RPGs, they prioritize games that can be enjoyed during short sessions with friends and family. Lee maintains a notebook of game ideas and uses low-cost prototypes to test mechanics quickly, while Ferriss emphasizes swift, affordable prototyping.

Their game "Coyote" exemplifies their design philosophy of being "easy to learn, challenging to master." The game incorporates both cooperative and competitive play modes, with public card choices in cooperative mode and strategic elements, including sabotage options, in competitive mode. According to Ferriss, the game provides a "brain workout" experience by challenging cognitive flexibility.

Playtesting and Iteration

Lee describes a rigorous multi-stage playtesting process involving "kiddie test pilots" recruited from their Kickstarter, Discord, and Reddit communities. Their team analyzes recorded gameplay sessions at 4x speed, looking for visual cues like eye rolls and confusion to identify areas needing improvement. With feedback from 400 test families, they continuously refined the game through multiple iterations.

The creators emphasize their "Clear Mind" philosophy when writing game instructions, with Lee approaching the task as if entirely ignorant of the game. This method helps anticipate and address potential questions before they arise, resulting in clear, concise instructions that new players can easily follow.

Pitching and Selling To Retailers

Lee explains that securing meetings with retail buyers requires strategic planning, suggesting that hiring a publisher with existing relationships can help bypass initial hurdles. Their pitching process involves careful preparation, including live gameplay demonstrations and engaging videos. Lee's agent prepares for up to a year to ensure successful pitches, even timing meetings for right after meals when buyers are likely to be more receptive.

The success of Exploding Kittens has given Lee's team significant leverage in retailer negotiations. They've been able to secure favorable terms and prime shelf placement, even bypassing typical rollout phases with major retailers like Walmart. Lee emphasizes the importance of working with experienced agents who understand the industry and can navigate complex contract terms, including return policies and counterfeiting risks.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Lee and Ferriss prioritize simplicity in game design, focusing on creating casual, fast-paced games that are easy to learn and quick to play. They emphasize developing games that can be enjoyed in short sessions with friends and family, rather than complex RPGs. Their design philosophy centers on creating games that are easy to learn but offer depth and challenge for players, promoting both cooperative and competitive play modes in their games.
  • The "Clear Mind" philosophy in writing game instructions involves approaching the task as if entirely ignorant of the game to anticipate and address potential questions before they arise. This method results in clear, concise instructions that new players can easily follow. It aims to simplify complex game mechanics and ensure that players can grasp the rules quickly. By adopting this philosophy, game designers can enhance the overall player experience and reduce confusion during gameplay.
  • To secure meetings with retail buyers, strategic planning is essential. Hiring a publisher with established relationships can help overcome initial obstacles. Preparation is key, involving live gameplay demonstrations and engaging videos. Timing meetings strategically, such as right after meals, can increase the chances of a successful pitch.
  • The success of Exploding Kittens, a card game created by Elan Lee, Matthew Inman, and Shane Small, was significant in the tabletop gaming industry. The game's massive popularity, fueled by a successful Kickstarter campaign, helped Lee's team gain leverage in negotiations with retailers, securing favorable terms and prime shelf placement. This success allowed them to bypass traditional rollout phases with major retailers like Walmart, showcasing the game's impact on their ability to navigate the industry and establish strong partnerships. The game's unique and engaging gameplay, combined with clever marketing strategies, contributed to its widespread recognition and commercial success.
  • Experienced agents in the gaming industry play a crucial role in negotiating favorable terms with retailers, navigating complex contract terms, and mitigating risks like counterfeiting. They leverage their industry knowledge and relationships to secure prime shelf placement and advantageous deals for game creators. Agents also assist in understanding and negotiating return policies, ensuring creators are protected in their retail partnerships. Their expertise helps game creators focus on game development while the agents handle the business aspects of selling to retailers.

Counterarguments

  • While simplicity in game design can attract a wider audience, it may not satisfy players seeking deep, immersive experiences that complex games provide.
  • Games that are "two minutes to learn, fifteen minutes to play" might lack replayability and depth that keep players engaged over the long term.
  • Focusing on casual games for short sessions might overlook the market segment that prefers lengthy, involved gaming sessions.
  • Keeping a notebook of ideas and low-cost prototyping is a good practice, but it may not always capture the nuances and potential issues of more complex game designs.
  • The "Coyote" game's design philosophy of being easy to learn but challenging to master is a common approach, but not all games need to follow this model to be successful or enjoyable.
  • The use of "kiddie test pilots" and feedback from 400 test families is a robust playtesting strategy, but it may not represent the broader demographic of all potential players.
  • Analyzing recorded gameplay sessions at 4x speed could potentially miss subtle but important player reactions or feedback.
  • The "Clear Mind" philosophy for writing instructions is beneficial, but it may not account for all types of learning styles and player interpretations.
  • Strategic planning for securing meetings with retail buyers is important, but it may not guarantee success, as the retail landscape is highly competitive and subject to change.
  • Relying on a publisher with existing relationships can be helpful, but it may also limit a game designer's control over the process and potentially reduce profits.
  • Having leverage in retailer negotiations due to past success is advantageous, but past performance does not always predict future results, and market dynamics can shift.
  • Securing favorable terms and prime shelf placement with major retailers is beneficial, but it may not be sustainable or possible for all game designers, especially new entrants to the market.
  • Working with experienced agents is crucial, but it can also be costly and may not always lead to the best outcomes for smaller or independent game designers.

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free
#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

Game Design and Prototyping

Creators Emphasize Simple, Fun Game Design

Lee and Ferriss stress the significance of simplicity and fun in game design. According to Lee, any superfluous game components should be stripped away, as exemplified by replacing extraneous bingo chips with a more straightforward method using the back of cards.

A Casual, Fast-Paced Game For Friends and Family, Not a Complex RPG

Ferriss realized that an RPG would be too complex for him and his friends for casual play. Instead, he sought to create a casual, fast-paced game suitable for short sessions. Lee's goal was to design games that could be quickly learned and played, adhering to the mantra of "two minutes to learn, fifteen minutes to play". The game "Coyote" is an example of this philosophy, being a fast-paced national bestseller card game.

Experimenting With Mechanics Using Low-cost Prototypes to Test and Iterate

Lee maintains a notebook filled with game ideas, which he adds to each month, and uses simple prototypes, sometimes scribbled on cards, to explore these ideas. The focus is on using low-cost materials to test and iterate game mechanics quickly. Ferriss also underscores the importance of prototyping affordable and swiftly.

Creators Leveraged Their Game Design Expertise to Develop Engaging Gameplay

Lee and Ferriss draw on their game design expertise to make engaging, enjoyable games. They strive to develop games that are not just entertaining themselves but make the players entertaining, fostering interactions and creating memorable experiences.

"Easy to Learn, Challenging to Master" Rule

"Coyote" is lauded as a game that embodies the "easy to learn, challenging to master" principle. Bushnell's Law is mentioned, emphasizing the delicate balance of difficulty in game design to avoid games being too easy or too challenging.

...

Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary

Registered users get access to the Full Podcast Summary and Additional Materials. It’s easy and free!
Start your free trial today

Game Design and Prototyping

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While simplicity in game design can be beneficial, it may not cater to all audiences; some players prefer complex games that offer deep strategic layers and rich narratives.
  • Casual, fast-paced games are great for quick sessions, but they might lack the depth and replayability that keep players engaged over the long term.
  • The "two minutes to learn, fifteen minutes to play" mantra might oversimplify some games, potentially leading to a lack of depth or strategic complexity that some players seek.
  • Low-cost prototyping is efficient, but it may not always capture the nuances of the final player experience, especially where physical components and artwork contribute significantly to the game's appeal.
  • Expertise in game design does not guarantee that every game will be engaging or enjoyable for every player, as personal preferences vary widely.
  • The "easy to learn, challenging to master" principle is a solid design goal, but not all g ...

Actionables

  • You can design a simple card game using everyday items to encourage social interaction and cognitive exercise. Start by selecting a common theme, like animals or colors, and create a set of rules that can be explained in under two minutes. Use a deck of regular playing cards to represent different elements of your theme, and introduce a twist, such as a card that reverses the gameplay direction or a rule that requires quick decision-making, to add a layer of strategy that's easy to grasp but hard to master.
  • Organize a game night with friends where you collectively create a game from scratch, focusing on cooperation and competition. Each person could contribute an idea for a game mechanic, such as trading resources or guessing clues, and together you can decide on how these can be incorporated into a game that can be played within fifteen minutes. This activity not only serves as a fun social gathering but also as a live workshop for understanding game design principles.
  • Challenge yourself to improve your cognitive flexibility by inventing daily mini ...

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free
#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

Playtesting and Iteration

Through extensive discussions on game development, Tim Ferriss and Elan Lee share insights into the multi-layered playtesting processes that have been crucial for refining their game designs.

Creators Used Rigorous, Multi-Stage Playtesting to Refine the Game

Recruiting "Kiddie Test Pilots" for Feedback Sessions

Elan Lee discusses using their Kickstarter, Discord, and Reddit communities to recruit groups of families and friends who regularly play games to test prototypes. Lee's company sent out prototypes to these testers with the directive to play the game within 24 hours, record their session, and send back the video for analysis.

Analyzed Videos to Find Pain Points, Confusion, and Improvements, Making Iterative Game Changes

In analyzing playtesting feedback, Elan Lee and his team count visual cues like eye rolls and confusion when participants read the instructions to identify whether they enjoy the game or if there are areas in need of improvement. The team watches videos at 4x speed, flags moments indicating confusion or significant reactions, and uses Vimeo for people to upload their playtesting videos. A team reviews these flagged moments, assisting in identifying where changes might be needed, and feedback is used to make changes before distributing the next set of games.

Prototypes Tested With Pilots For Polishing and Refinement

Lee speaks to the importance of continuous iterative refinement, as they often played the game multiple times, implemented changes, and increased the number of test families—totaling 400—to perfect the game through multiple iterations. He illustrated this by testing various aspects of a game character to see which version would be the winner. Elan Lee and his daughter worked on a myriad of game designs, implying a process of iteration and testing different ideas, such as the game name 'Hurry Up Chicken Butt,' which was selected after testing.

Tim Ferriss mentions that simple games go through extensive development, testing, and revisions. He uses the example of action cards and variables in a card game to illustrate the meticulous iteration process. During playtesting, unengaging mechanisms, such as 'shouting' cards, were removed after they proved to be unfavorable. The playtesting journey involved both structured sessions and organic discussions, a blend of disciplined and flexible approaches to game development and iterati ...

Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary

Registered users get access to the Full Podcast Summary and Additional Materials. It’s easy and free!
Start your free trial today

Playtesting and Iteration

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While recruiting playtesters from Kickstarter, Discord, and Reddit can provide a diverse range of feedback, it may also introduce bias as these communities might not represent the general population of game players.
  • The directive to play the game within 24 hours could pressure testers, potentially affecting their play experience and the feedback they provide.
  • Analyzing videos at 4x speed might lead to missing subtle but important feedback cues that could be crucial for game improvement.
  • Relying heavily on visual cues like eye rolls could result in misinterpretation of feedback, as such reactions can be ambiguous and have different meanings across cultures or individuals.
  • The iterative refinement process, while thorough, could be time-consuming and resource-intensive, which might not be feasible for smaller game development teams or indie creators.
  • The process of selecting a game name like 'Hurry Up Chicken Butt' after testing could be criticized for not being data-driven if the decision was based solely on subjective feedback without considering broader market appeal or branding strategy.
  • The claim that simple games undergo extensive development might be challenged by pointing out successful simple games that did not require such rigorous testing and iteration.
  • The removal of game mechanisms like 'shouting' cards based on playtesting feedback might not be the best decision if the sample size of testers ...

Actionables

  • You can gather feedback on creative projects by setting up a simple online form and sharing it with friends or social media followers. Ask them to record their first impressions or thoughts while engaging with your work, whether it's a piece of art, writing, or a DIY project. This can provide insights similar to the playtesting videos, helping you understand where viewers might be confused or delighted.
  • Enhance your instructional materials, like recipes or DIY guides, by asking a friend who's unfamiliar with the process to follow your instructions. Note where they hesitate or ask questions, and use this feedback to refine your guide. This mirrors the approach of writing game instructions as if knowing nothing about the game, ensuring clarity and accessibility for beginners.
  • When organizing your workspace or home, consider the ...

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free
#821: My Two-Year Secret Project, COYOTE — The Strategies and Tactics for Building a Bestseller from Nothing with Elan Lee of Exploding Kittens

Pitching and Selling To Retailers

Navigating the crowded retail market is a challenge for any game creator. From securing meetings with tight-scheduled retail buyers to dealing with complex negotiations, Elan Lee and Tim Ferriss offer insights into the art of selling games to major retailers.

Creators Navigated Pitching Games To Major Retailers

Pitching a new game to retailers requires more than just a creative idea; it involves strategic engagement and careful timing.

Securing Meetings With Time-Pressed Retail Buyers

Elan Lee explains the difficulty of getting time with retail buyers due to their limited availability for new products. He suggests hiring a publisher who already has a meeting booked as a way to circumvent this challenge. It's critical to ensure your publisher adequately represents your game, focusing on the fun elements.

Strategic Approach: Pitches With Props, Videos, Demonstrations

In preparing for meetings, Lee compares the process to rehearsing for a performance at Carnegie Hall. Lee's agent prepares for a year to ensure successful pitches, and they aim for meeting slots right after meals when buyers are likely in better moods. The approach involves engaging buyers with live gameplay, passionate videos, and engaging demonstrations, like bringing suitcases full of games (even unrelated ones) to convey an expansive brand presence.

Creators Structured Deals With Retailers to Protect Interests

Understanding and navigating the complexities of retailer agreements is paramount to protect creators' interests in the volatile retail market.

Risks of Return Policies, Counterfeits, and Retail Challenges

Lee emphasizes the intricacies of negotiating contract terms, including return policies and the risks of counterfeiting. He suggests collaborating with experienced agents or representatives who understand the industry and can foresee and address potential retail issues.

Experienced Agents and Representatives Navigate Negotiation Complexities

Agents who are experienced and know the retail market and buyer relationships are invaluable. They provide a bridge between creators and buyers while protecting the creators from the risks associated with retail policies.

Leveraged Success Secures Favorable Terms and Distribution

The track record of Exploding Kittens and prior successes can significantly alter the dynamics of retailer nego ...

Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary

Registered users get access to the Full Podcast Summary and Additional Materials. It’s easy and free!
Start your free trial today

Pitching and Selling To Retailers

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While hiring a publisher can help secure meetings, it may not be financially viable for all creators, and it could reduce the profit margin and control over the game.
  • Engaging buyers with props and demonstrations is useful, but it may not always be practical or cost-effective, especially for small developers or those with limited resources.
  • Experienced agents can be beneficial, but they also come with costs and may not always align with the creator's vision or interests.
  • A track record of success certainly helps in negotiations, but it may not be necessary for all situations, and relying solely on past successes can lead to complacency and a lack of innovation.
  • Dictating deal terms based on past sales assumes that past performance will continue, which may not always be the case in a rapidly changing market.
  • The strategy of leveraging strong sales history to demand favorable terms might not be applicable to new creators who h ...

Actionables

  • You can create a mock negotiation scenario to practice contract discussions with friends or colleagues. By simulating a meeting with a retailer, you'll gain confidence in negotiating terms like return policies and addressing potential risks. For example, set up a role-play where one person acts as the buyer and the other as the game creator, and go through the motions of negotiating shelf placement and return agreements.
  • Develop a personal branding strategy to establish yourself as a creator with a track record. Start by documenting and sharing your game development process on social media platforms, focusing on milestones and successes. This can include posting behind-the-scenes content, testimonials from players, and any awards or recognitions your games receive, which over time can help you build a reputation that may lead to better negotiation leverage with retailers.
  • Engage with local gaming communities to test and showcase your games, whi ...

Get access to the context and additional materials

So you can understand the full picture and form your own opinion.
Get access for free

Create Summaries for anything on the web

Download the Shortform Chrome extension for your browser

Shortform Extension CTA