176. A conversation with my Mum
Dive into the complex tapestry of generational wisdom in "The Psychology of your 20s" podcast, featuring a heartfelt conversation with host Jemma Sbeg and her mother. In this intimate episode, Jemma’s mother reflects on her own formative decades, recounting the challenges of navigating an academic and professional world rife with gender discrimination while simultaneously embarking on the journey of motherhood. Her anecdotes of professional perseverance at the Federal Treasury and the personal battles with imposter syndrome underscore a narrative of resilience and determination, offering a unique perspective on the intersection of career and family life.
Listeners will be moved by the candid exploration of motherhood, feminist principles, and the evolving nature of the adult mother-daughter relationship. Jemma’s mother discusses the profound joys and fears that come with raising children, shedding light on the multi-layered role of a parent who champions feminist values and advocates for navigating personal boundaries. Witness the delicate evolution of their bond, as it matures into a dynamic of mutual respect and understanding, providing an insightful lens into the emotional availability that anchors their relationship through the trials and triumphs of life.
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Jemma's Mother's Journey
Jemma's mother recounts her past filled with determination as she journeyed through academia and the workforce while embracing motherhood. Dealing with academic failure, she took time off to work and travel which resulted in a renewed purpose and led her to complete her economics degree. In her professional life, she faced gender discrimination but made her mark in a male-dominated industry. With the challenge of imposter syndrome in leadership roles, especially at the Federal Treasury, she overcame doubts and built confidence.
Motherhood
Jemma's mother conveys the nuanced emotions of motherhood, representing the joys and vulnerabilities it encompasses. She recollects the anxiety that comes with watching her children grow and face difficulties, sharing an instance when Jemma called her late at night from overseas, symbolizing the perpetual concern parents carry. She emphasizes the significance of emotional availability for her children throughout all life stages and confesses the inherent trials of parenting, from allowing space for growth to facing the unpredictable elements of raising children.
Feminist Motherhood
Jemma's mother advocated for feminist values through parenting, raising her daughters to embrace equal rights and independence. By subverting gender norms, she encouraged her daughters to be active and pursue non-traditional experiences. As a leader, Jemma's mother indirectly influenced broader themes of equal opportunities and grew to become a vocal advocate for women's rights. She recognized the limitations of early "white feminism" and transitioned toward an inclusive interpretation that acknowledges the diverse experiences of women, promoting a broader and more intersectional feminist perspective.
Adult Mother-Daughter Relationship
The bond between Jemma and her mother has matured into one of mutual respect and intimacy. This newfound closeness brought a deepened understanding and appreciation of her mother's sacrifices, while still respecting personal boundaries, particularly around Jemma's dating life. Her mother continues to cherish Jemma's independence and provides guidance while respecting her daughter's individuality and decision-making, striking a balance between parental support and admiration for her autonomy. The relationship exhibits the delicate harmony of guidance and respect for one's independence in the adult phase of the mother-daughter connection.
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Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Imposter syndrome is a psychological pattern where individuals doubt their abilities and fear being exposed as frauds despite evidence of their competence. It can lead to feelings of inadequacy and hinder personal growth and success. People experiencing imposter syndrome often struggle with internalized beliefs that they are not as capable as others perceive them to be. This phenomenon can impact various aspects of life, including relationships and career advancement.
- White feminism is a term critiquing feminist movements that prioritize the concerns and experiences of white, cisgender, heterosexual, able-bodied women while marginalizing or ignoring the struggles faced by women of color and those from marginalized communities. It highlights the limitations of early feminist movements that primarily focused on issues relevant to white, middle-class women, neglecting the intersectionality of gender with race, sexuality, and other identities. The term aims to push for a more inclusive feminist perspective that acknowledges and addresses the diverse experiences and challenges faced by all women, not just those from privileged backgrounds.
- Intersectional feminist perspective considers how various aspects of a person's identity (such as race, class, gender, sexuality) intersect and overlap to shape their experiences of discrimination and privilege. It acknowledges that individuals can face different forms of oppression based on the combination of these factors. This perspective aims to address the complexities of inequality by advocating for inclusive and diverse approaches to feminism that recognize and uplift the voices of marginalized groups. By understanding and addressing these intersecting systems of power, intersectional feminism seeks to create a more equitable and just society for all.
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Jemma's Mother's Journey
Jemma's mother shares a story of determination and perseverance as she navigates her journey through academia, motherhood, and the professional workforce, challenging norms and overcoming self-doubt along the way.
Overcoming obstacles to complete university degree
Originally part of the economics department, Jemma's mother faced the challenge of being asked to leave her university after failing two years, as she was struggling to find her path and manage life expenses. Initially enrolled in a psychology degree, she knew becoming a clinical psychologist was not the right fit for her.
Taking a year off to work and travel overseas, Jemma's mother gained perspective, met individuals without the opportunities she had, and found the motivation to return to university. With a fresh sense of purpose and enjoyment, she completed her degree, overcoming the early academic setbacks.
Becoming a mother and raising three daughters
In her personal life, Jemma's mother tackled the responsibilities of motherhood, raising three daughters with the same resilience and strength she applied to her educational endeavors.
Challenging gender norms and facing discrimination in the workplace
Jemma's mother made significant strides in her career by breaking into a male-dominated industry. She faced criticism for her focused pursuit of opportunities, criticism that might not have been directed at her if she were a man. In professional settings, she frequently found herself among senior men during important meetings, highlighting the gender imbalance in such environments.
To assert her presence and gain respect, she chose to be addr ...
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Jemma's Mother's Journey
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Imposter syndrome is a psychological pattern where individuals doubt their abilities and fear being exposed as frauds despite evidence of their competence. It can lead to self-doubt, hinder personal growth, and impact relationships. The term was first introduced in 1978 and often affects high achievers who struggle to internalize their accomplishments. It can be particularly challenging in professional settings where individuals may feel like they don't belong or deserve their success.
- A male-dominated industry is a field or sector where men significantly outnumber women in terms of employment and leadership positions. This imbalance can create challenges for women in terms of career advancement, equal opportunities, and recognition. Women in male-dominated industries often face gender biases, stereotypes, and barriers that can impact their professional growth and success. Efforts to promote diversity and inclusion aim to address these disparities and create more equitable workplaces.
- In professional settings, gender imbalance often occurs when there are significantly more men than women in leadership positions or decision-making roles. This imbalance can lead to challenges for women in terms of representation, opportunities, and being taken seriously. Women may face discrimination, biases, and unequal treatment due to this gender disparity. Efforts to address gender imbalance include promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives to create more balanced and fair workplaces.
- The Federal Treasury role typically involves overseeing government finances, managing budgets, and implementing economic policies at the national level. It is a key department responsible for financial planning, revenue collection, and expenditure allocation for the gover ...
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Motherhood
Jemma Sbeg's Mother offers a heartfelt glimpse into the experiences and emotions she has encountered throughout her journey as a parent, acknowledging the challenges and the rewarding aspects of raising children.
Watching children grow up and face difficulties causes uncertainty and vulnerability for parents
Jemma Sbeg's Mother talks about the vulnerability and uncertainty she feels as her children grow up and navigate the world on their own. She speaks about the conflicting desires a parent has for their children to become independent and successful, yet also being acutely aware of the myriad of things that can go wrong.
She shares a personal moment of anxiety when Jemma once called her at 3 am from overseas. This incident underscores the enduring worry parents endure when their children face hardships, regardless of the distance that separates them.
Importance of being available emotionally for children, not just when young but throughout life
Jemma Sbeg's mother recognizes the misconception that parents are only needed during the early stages of a child's life. She asserts the importance of finding ways to be there for your children at all ages and stages, emphasizing that it is not only challenging but one of the joys of parenting.
Describing her mother as a "wonderful role model" brimming with "a lot of wisdom," Jemma implies that her mother's emotional availability and support have continued into her adulthood.
Making mistakes but trying your best as a parent
Jemma Sbeg's mother opens up about the emotional ...
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Motherhood
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Emotional availability in the context of parenting refers to the ability of a parent to be present, responsive, and attuned to their child's emotional needs. It involves being open, supportive, and engaged in a child's emotional experiences, providing a secure and nurturing environment for them to express themselves. Parents who are emotionally available create a strong emotional bond with their children, fostering trust, communication, and healthy emotional development. This concept highlights the importance of not only meeting a child's physical needs but also their emotional well-being throughout different stages of life.
- In the context of the text, "a lot of wisdom" implies that Jemma's mother possesses a significant amount of knowledge, experience, and good judgment. This phrase suggests that Jemma's mother is seen as someone who offers valuable insights and guidance based on her life experiences and understanding of various situations. It indicates that Jemma holds her mother in high regard for her ability to provide wise advice and support.
- Emotional challenges in parenting encompass the difficulties and struggles parents face when dealing with their children's emotions, such as sadness, pain, or anxiety. These challenges arise from the desire to support and nurture their children while also allowing them the space to grow and learn from their experiences. Parents may find it emotionally taxing to balance their protective instincts with the need for their children to develop independence and resilience. Und ...
Counterarguments
- While parents often feel uncertainty and vulnerability as their children grow up, some argue that this can be mitigated by fostering open communication and trust, which can help both parents and children feel more secure.
- The idea of emotional availability throughout life can be challenging due to various factors such as geographical distance, personal boundaries, or evolving parent-child dynamics in adulthood.
- While striving to do one's ...
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Feminist Motherhood
Feminist motherhood entails raising children, particularly daughters, with the belief in equal rights and opportunities, and embodying those principles as they evolve through time. It's a form of parenting that promotes equal opportunities, challenges gender norms, supports independence, and evolves to be more inclusive over time.
Promoting equal opportunities and independence in daughters
Jemma reflects on her non-traditional upbringing, where she and her sisters were raised to explore, take risks, and behave without strict adherence to traditional gender roles. This allowed Jemma and her siblings to jump, run, climb, and be more independent, a child-rearing approach promoted by her mother and her stay-at-home father, Bart. This unique upbringing subverted gender norms and emphasized equal opportunities.
Living according to feminist principles but becoming more vocal advocate for women over time
Jemma notes that her mother faced societal expectations and prejudice when dropping her off at school, contrasting with the societal praise that stay-at-home dads received for being involved. Jemma's mother instilled in her daughters the idea that their life doesn’t have to follow a straight line, and taking time to figure things out is acceptable. This promotes the value of independence and the importance of equal opportunities for women.
Furthermore, Jemma's mother, who took on a leadership role and expressed satisfaction in setting organizational tone and values, indirectly supported broader themes of equal opportunities, reflecting this value in her daughters' upbringing. She realizes that as she's gotten older, she has become more of a feminist advocate for her daughters and young women in general.
Evolving away from narrowly-defined "white feminism" of the past
Jemma and her mother both dis ...
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Feminist Motherhood
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- White feminism is a term used to criticize feminist movements that prioritize the experiences and perspectives of white, cisgender, heterosexual, and able-bodied women while overlooking the intersectional nature of oppression faced by women of color and those with different identities. It highlights a historical trend within feminism that centered on the concerns of privileged white women, often excluding or marginalizing the experiences of women from diverse backgrounds. The term aims to draw attention to the need for a more inclusive and intersectional approach to feminism that addresses the multiple layers of discrimination faced by women beyond just gender.
- Intersectionality is a concept that recognizes how various aspects of a person's identity, like race, gender, class, and sexuality, can intersect and create unique experiences of discrimination and privilege. It highlights the importance of considering these intersecting identities when addressing social issues and advocating for equality. Intersectionality aims to move beyond simplistic analyses of discrimination by acknowledging the complexity of how different forms of oppression can overlap and impact individuals. It emphasizes the need to understand and address the interconnected nature of social inequalities to create more inclusive ...
Counterarguments
- While feminist motherhood aims to promote equal opportunities, it is important to recognize that individual children may have different needs and preferences that may not align with the ideals of challenging traditional gender roles.
- The concept of feminist motherhood may inadvertently pressure some mothers to conform to a specific set of beliefs or parenting styles, which could be at odds with their personal values or cultural practices.
- The emphasis on independence in children, while generally positive, must be balanced with teaching interdependence and the value of community and collaboration, which are also important life skills.
- The narrative of feminist motherhood often centers on the experiences of daughters, potentially overlooking the importance of raising sons with feminist principles and the role they play in gender equality.
- The evolution of feminist motherhood towards inclusivity is commendable, but it is important to ensure that this inclusivity does not become superficial and that it genuinely addresses the complexities of intersectionality.
- The praise ...
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Adult Mother-Daughter Relationship
The relationship between a mother and her daughter naturally evolves over time. Jemma Sbeg and her mother reflect on the transition from childhood to adulthood, noting the changes that have cultivated an intimate, respectful, and close bond while maintaining healthy boundaries and appreciating independence.
Increased closeness, respect, intimacy compared to teen years
As Jemma transitioned into adulthood, there appears to have been a noticeable shift in her relationship with her mother. What started as an independent streak during her teenage years—where Jemma felt she didn't need her parents—morphed into a desire for their support while navigating university and personal challenges like heartbreak. Jemma’s mother similarly notes the transition to a different kind of closeness in adulthood, where grown-up conversations and mutual respect are appreciated.
Jemma expresses profound respect for her mother, even considering her a personal hero, and the duo share a relationship that ventures into friendship territory, suggesting a level of intimacy and closeness beyond the traditional mother-daughter dynamic. This evolution is characterized by Jemma’s mature understanding of the sacrifices her mother made and the lessons on independence and problem-solving she was taught.
Still setting boundaries on sharing certain personal information
Despite this closeness, Jemma and her mother recognize the importance of boundaries, particularly around personal information. Conversations about Jemma's dating life have boundaries, with her mother indicating discomfort with knowing too much about her daughter's casual relationships. By not discussing people she dates by name or introducing them to her mother until a relationship is serious, Jemma maintains her independence while navigating her personal life.
Appreciating daughter's independence while maintaining parental guidance and support
The relationship is also marked by a balancing act where Jemma's mother appreciates and supports her daughter's independence but continues to provide guidance. Remin ...
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Adult Mother-Daughter Relationship
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- The boundaries around personal information in the mother-daughter relationship involve limiting discussions about Jemma's dating life to maintain privacy and independence. Jemma refrains from sharing details about casual relationships with her mother and only introduces serious partners. This approach allows Jemma to navigate her personal life independ ...
Counterarguments
- While the relationship between Jemma and her mother has evolved into one of increased closeness and respect, it's possible that not all adult mother-daughter relationships follow this pattern; some may remain distant or become more strained with time.
- The transition from seeking independence in teenage years to desiring parental support in adulthood may not be universal; some individuals may continue to prioritize independence and not seek increased parental involvement.
- The idea that the relationship ventures into friendship territory could be problematic for some, as it may blur the lines between parental roles and friendship, potentially leading to conflicts or a lack of necessary parental authority.
- Setting boundaries on sharing personal information is important, but the degree to which boundaries are set can vary greatly among different mother-daughter relationships, and some may find a more open exchange to be beneficial.
- The appreciation of a daughter's independence while providing guidance and support is a delicate balance, and some mothers may struggle to find the right level of involvement without overstepping or under-supporting.
- Reminiscing on childhood play and autonomy can be positive, but it can also lead to nostalgia that overlooks current challenges or issues in the adult relationship.
- Expressing pride in a child's achievements is important, but it's also crucial to recognize that a ...
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