Podcasts > The Peter Attia Drive > #323 - CRISPR and the future of gene editing: scientific advances, genetic therapies, disease treatment potential, and ethical considerations | Feng Zhang, Ph.D.

#323 - CRISPR and the future of gene editing: scientific advances, genetic therapies, disease treatment potential, and ethical considerations | Feng Zhang, Ph.D.

By Peter Attia, MD

In this episode of The Peter Attia Drive, Dr. Feng Zhang explains the origins and development of CRISPR gene editing technology, from its initial discovery as a bacterial defense system to its groundbreaking applications in treating genetic diseases. He delves into the capabilities and potential of CRISPR, as clinical trials explore therapies based on precisely editing genes responsible for conditions like sickle cell anemia.

Zhang also touches on the challenges facing CRISPR-based treatments, including efficient delivery methods and ethical considerations around germline editing. While acknowledging limitations like editing large genes and polygenic traits, the episode provides insights into this revolutionary technology and its promise for addressing genetic disorders.

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#323 - CRISPR and the future of gene editing: scientific advances, genetic therapies, disease treatment potential, and ethical considerations | Feng Zhang, Ph.D.

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#323 - CRISPR and the future of gene editing: scientific advances, genetic therapies, disease treatment potential, and ethical considerations | Feng Zhang, Ph.D.

1-Page Summary

The origins and development of CRISPR gene editing technology

Feng Zhang explains that CRISPR (Clustered Regularly Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats) was first discovered in bacterial DNA as repetitive, palindromic sequences with short gaps in between. Researchers like Francisco Mojica found these unique segments matched viral DNA, indicating CRISPR's role in bacterial immunity.

CRISPR uses guide RNA to direct Cas proteins to cleave matching viral DNA

When bacteriophages infect bacteria, CRISPR produces guide RNA to recognize the virus DNA. If Cas proteins find a match, they cut the viral DNA, defending against infection. This understanding laid the groundwork for developing CRISPR-Cas9 as a gene editing tool, a process Zhang contributed to.

The capabilities and applications of CRISPR, especially in treating genetic diseases

CRISPR enables precise gene editing by guiding Cas9 to target DNA sequences

Zhang describes CRISPR as a two-part system: Cas9 performs editing, directed to specific sequences by guide RNA. This allows targeted gene disruption, correction, or insertion of genetic material.

CRISPR shows promise for treating monogenic diseases like sickle cell

Diseases caused by single gene mutations like sickle cell anemia and Huntington's could potentially be treated by inactivating or correcting the causative mutations using CRISPR.

Clinical trials explore CRISPR-based therapies and delivery methods

Approaches include ex vivo gene editing of patient cells and re-introduction (for sickle cell), and in vivo delivery of CRISPR components via nanoparticles (for liver diseases) or viral vectors (for eye diseases like LCA10).

The challenges and limitations of CRISPR-based therapies, including delivery and ethics

Efficient in vivo delivery remains a major obstacle

Zhang notes Cas9's large size complicates packaging into viral vectors. Nanoparticle formulations are being developed to improve delivery, but efficiency is still limited.

Ethical concerns around germline editing and unintended effects

Zhang mentions the ethical debate over germline editing, with consensus against pursuing it currently due to safety concerns like unintended mutations from mosaic editing.

Other limitations include editing large genes and polygenic traits

Newer CRISPR variants like base editing and prime editing aim to address some limitations, but the complexity of biology means simple gene fixes may not always have predictable outcomes.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • CRISPR (Clustered Regularly Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats) are unique DNA sequences found in the genomes of bacteria and other microorganisms. These sequences act as a form of bacterial immune system, allowing the organism to recognize and defend against invading viruses by targeting and cleaving their DNA. Researchers have harnessed this natural defense mechanism to develop CRISPR-Cas9 as a powerful gene editing tool with various applications in genetic research and potential therapeutic interventions.
  • CRISPR plays a crucial role in bacterial immunity by storing genetic information from past viral infections. When a virus attacks again, the bacteria use CRISPR to produce guide RNA that matches the viral DNA. This guide RNA helps Cas proteins locate and cut the invading viral DNA, providing a defense mechanism for the bacteria. This process allows bacteria to remember and defend against specific viruses they have encountered before.
  • Guide RNA in CRISPR directs Cas proteins to specific locations on DNA, like viral DNA, by binding to complementary sequences. This binding activates the Cas protein to cut the DNA at that precise location, allowing for targeted modifications. Essentially, guide RNA acts as a molecular GPS, guiding the Cas protein to the correct spot for gene editing. This process is fundamental to how CRISPR technology achieves precise genetic modifications.
  • CRISPR-Cas9 is a gene editing tool that utilizes a bacterial defense system to precisely modify DNA sequences. Cas9 is an enzyme that acts like molecular scissors, cutting DNA at specific locations guided by RNA molecules. This technology allows scientists to edit genes by either disrupting, correcting, or inserting genetic material with high precision. CRISPR-Cas9 has revolutionized genetic research and holds great potential for treating various genetic diseases.
  • Monogenic diseases are disorders caused by mutations in a single gene. CRISPR technology shows promise in treating monogenic diseases by targeting and modifying the specific gene responsible for the disorder, potentially correcting the genetic mutation at its root. This precision allows for the inactivation or correction of the causative gene mutation, offering a potential therapeutic approach for conditions like sickle cell anemia and Huntington's disease. Clinical trials are exploring the use of CRISPR to address monogenic diseases by editing patient cells ex vivo or delivering CRISPR components in vivo to target the genetic abnormalities directly.
  • In vivo delivery of CRISPR components involves introducing CRISPR-Cas9 machinery directly into the body to target specific cells or tissues for gene editing. This can be achieved using various methods such as viral vectors or nanoparticles to transport the CRISPR components effectively. For example, in liver diseases, nanoparticles can be used to deliver CRISPR components to the liver cells for targeted gene editing. In eye diseases like LCA10, viral vectors are utilized to transport CRISPR components to the cells in the eye for therapeutic purposes.
  • Ethical concerns around germline editing involve debates on the morality and implications of making heritable changes to the DNA of future generations. This type of editing could impact not just the individual being treated but also their descendants. Safety risks, unintended consequences, and the potential for altering the human gene pool are key considerations in these discussions.
  • Base editing and prime editing are advanced CRISPR technologies that offer more precise ways to modify DNA compared to traditional CRISPR-Cas9. Base editing allows for the direct conversion of one DNA base to another without cutting the DNA double helix, while prime editing enables the insertion, deletion, or substitution of DNA sequences with high accuracy and efficiency. These newer CRISPR variants provide researchers with additional tools to address specific types of genetic mutations that were challenging to correct using earlier gene editing methods.

Counterarguments

  • CRISPR's precision is sometimes overstated, as off-target effects can occur, leading to unintended genetic modifications.
  • The promise of CRISPR for treating monogenic diseases may not extend to complex diseases caused by multiple genetic and environmental factors.
  • The ethical debate over germline editing is not just about safety but also concerns about eugenics, social inequality, and the potential for "designer babies."
  • The effectiveness of CRISPR in clinical applications has yet to be proven on a large scale, and long-term safety data is still lacking.
  • CRISPR-based therapies may be expensive and inaccessible to many, raising issues of healthcare equity.
  • The immune response to Cas9 or other CRISPR components could limit the effectiveness and repeatability of treatments.
  • The development of viral vectors and nanoparticles for CRISPR delivery raises concerns about potential long-term effects and the body's immune response to these delivery systems.
  • The focus on CRISPR may divert resources and attention from other potentially valuable genetic research and therapies.
  • The regulatory landscape for CRISPR therapies is still evolving, which could impact the speed and manner in which treatments become available.
  • CRISPR's ability to edit large genes and address polygenic traits is not just a technical challenge but also a conceptual one, as our understanding of gene networks and interactions is still incomplete.

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#323 - CRISPR and the future of gene editing: scientific advances, genetic therapies, disease treatment potential, and ethical considerations | Feng Zhang, Ph.D.

The origins and development of CRISPR gene editing technology

CRISPR gene editing technology has revolutionized modern science, stemming from its discovery in bacterial DNA sequences. CRISPR systems were not only a fascinating molecular phenomenon but also laid the groundwork for significant advances in genetic engineering.

CRISPR systems were first discovered in bacterial DNA sequences in the 1980s

A group of Japanese researchers studying E. coli DNA sequences discovered regions within the bacterial genomes that had repetitive DNA sequences not typical of gene-encoding sequences. These repetitions were grouped together and interspaced by short, fixed-length gaps, forming a pattern. Feng Zhang explains that the most obvious signals when observing bacterial DNA are the CRISPR repeats, due to their conserved sequences that repeat many times. The sequences were palindromic, which means reading the repeat sequences from the top strand and in reverse on the bottom, they appeared almost the same. These sequences, later named CRISPR (Clustered Regularly Interspaced Short Palindromic Repeats), describe the appearance of these patterns.

Researchers observed repeating DNA sequences with short, unique segments in between

Feng Zhang discusses Francisco Mojica looking at the repeating sequences within the bacterial genome. It was Mojica’s work in the early 2000s that found that the non-repeating sequences between CRISPR repeats matched sequences from viruses, suggesting a role in bacterial-viral interactions. Mojica's discovery set the stage for the development of CRISPR as a tool for gene editing, as it indicated that these sequences were derived from viruses and foreign to the bacteria.

The function of CRISPR as a bacterial immune system was deciphered in the early 2000s

Researchers found the unique spacer segments matched viral DNA sequences, indicating CRISPR's role in fighting off viruses

Zhang reflects on the realization that the snippets of genetic information of the virus acquired by the bacteria, usually about 30 letters long, were sufficient for the bacteria to uniquely recognize the virus. Once a bacterium integrated a piece of the virus’s DNA into their CRISPR system, they effectively acquired immunity against that virus.

CRISPR systems use guide RNA to direct Cas proteins to cleave matching viral DNA, provid ...

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The origins and development of CRISPR gene editing technology

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • A palindromic sequence in DNA is a sequence where reading it in one direction on one strand matches the sequence in the opposite direction on the complementary strand. This symmetry is due to the specific pairing of nucleotides (A with T, C with G). Palindromic sequences play a role in various biological processes and can form structures like hairpins. They are common in genetic material and have specific functions in DNA replication, repair, and gene regulation.
  • CRISPR repeats are specific DNA sequences found in bacterial genomes that are characterized by their repetitive and palindromic nature. These repeats are interspaced with unique segments that match sequences from viruses, suggesting a role in bacterial-viral interactions. The significance of CRISPR repeats lies in their function as a key component of the bacterial immune system, allowing bacteria to acquire immunity against specific viruses by storing genetic information from past viral infections. This stored information is used by the CRISPR system to recognize and defend against future viral invasions through a mechanism involving guide RNA and Cas proteins.
  • In CRISPR systems, guide RNA plays a crucial role in directing Cas proteins to target and cleave specific DNA or RNA sequences. The guide RNA is formed by the CRISPR RNA and the Cas protein, working together to identify and bind to complementary sequences in the genetic material of invading viruses. This binding triggers the Cas protein to cut the viral DNA or RNA, providing a defense mechanism for the bacteria against viral infections. The specificity of the guide RNA in recognizing and guiding the Cas proteins to the target sequences is essential for the precision and effectiveness of CRISPR-based gene editing and immune responses.
  • Cas proteins are enzymes that are part of the CRISPR system in bacteria. They work alongside guide RNA to target and cleave specific sequences of viral DNA tha ...

Counterarguments

  • The discovery of CRISPR systems in the 1980s was significant, but it took many years of research by various scientists to understand their function and potential for gene editing.
  • While CRISPR technology has indeed revolutionized genetic engineering, there are still ethical and safety concerns regarding its use, especially in human germline editing.
  • The role of CRISPR as a bacterial immune system is well-established, but the complexity of immune responses in bacteria is not fully understood, and CRISPR is just one part of a larger immune strategy.
  • The efficiency of the Cas9 enzyme is notable, but off-target effects can occur, leading to unintended genetic modifications.
  • The development of CRISPR-Cas9 has been revolutionary ...

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#323 - CRISPR and the future of gene editing: scientific advances, genetic therapies, disease treatment potential, and ethical considerations | Feng Zhang, Ph.D.

The capabilities and applications of CRISPR, especially in treating genetic diseases

The episode dives into the potential of CRISPR technology, highlighting its revolutionizing role in treating genetic diseases through precise gene editing.

CRISPR allows for precise, programmable gene editing by delivering a Cas9 enzyme and guide RNA

The Cas9 enzyme can be directed to specific DNA sequences by the guide RNA

Dr. Feng Zhang speaks about gene editing as a two-part system: the delivery technology and the medicine or 'payload' technology. CRISPR uses guide RNA to direct the enzyme Cas9 to specific DNA sequences for editing. This RNA-guided process is more precise compared to older systems like zinc finger nucleases or TALENs that used proteins for DNA recognition. Cas9 can open host DNA and find its match without its own helicase and then make cuts where it matches the guide RNA.

This enables targeted disruption, correction, or insertion of genetic material

CRISPR's precision allows for the modification of specific genes, with transformative effects in various fields, particularly by creating transgenic mice in biomedical research. Zhang uses the analogy of smartphone apps to describe CRISPR's efficiency, where different software (guide RNA) can be loaded onto a single device (Cas9) to target varying genes. CRISPR RNA is easy to synthesize, and after the completion of the Human Genome Project, it is now possible to target almost any gene to perform cuts, edits, or insertions, as needed.

CRISPR has shown promise for treating monogenic genetic disorders

Diseases like sickle cell anemia, Huntington's, and metabolic disorders are caused by single gene mutations

Zhang underscores the capability of CRISPR to treat genetic diseases where pathogenic mutations cause the production of a mutant protein detrimental to the patient. For instance, Huntington's disease involves an expanded sequence of DNA repeats; CRISPR could potentially shorten these. Likewise, sickle cell anemia, caused by a single point mutation, is more prevalent in black populations due to its protective effect against malaria.

CRISPR can be used to inactivate or correct the causative mutations in these diseases

For diseases like sickle cell anemia, CRISPR targets the mutation causing the disease, possibly providing a lasting solution by expressing the fetal version of hemoglobin to lessen the disease's symptoms. Zhang explains that gene editing therapy, involving cutting DNA rather than making a point mutation, can potentially treat other diseases like Huntington's and metabolic liver disorders by inactivating genes to stop the production of toxic proteins.

CRISPR-based therapies are in clinical trials for some genetic diseases

Approaches include ex vivo gene editing of patient cells, followed by re-introduction

CRISPR's promise in treating sickle cell disease involves a potential one-time cure by ex vivo gene editing. Doctors can harvest the patient's bone marrow cells, modify them in the lab with mRNA for Cas9 and guide RNA, then reintroduce these edited cells. This process aims to correct the sickle ...

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The capabilities and applications of CRISPR, especially in treating genetic diseases

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Zinc finger nucleases (ZFNs) and TALENs are older gene-editing technologies that, like CRISPR, can target specific DNA sequences for editing. They work by fusing a DNA-binding domain to a DNA-cleavage domain, allowing for precise modifications in the genome. These technologies were significant advancements before CRISPR became widely adopted for gene editing.
  • Transgenic mice in biomedical research are mice that have had their genetic makeup altered to carry genes from other organisms. These genetic modifications help scientists study specific genes and their functions, model human diseases, and test potential treatments. Transgenic mice play a crucial role in understanding gene function, disease mechanisms, and developing new therapies in biomedical research.
  • The Human Genome Project was an international research initiative that aimed to map and sequence all the genes in the human genome. It started in 1990 and was completed in 2003, providing a foundational understanding of human genetic makeup. The project significantly advanced genetics and molecular biology, leading to breakthroughs in medicine, biotechnology, and various scientific fields.
  • Ex vivo gene editing involves modifying cells outside the body before reintroducing them, while in vivo gene editing occurs directly within the body. Ex vivo editing is often used for diseases like sickle cell anemia, where cells are taken out, edited, and then put back into the patient. In contrast, in vivo editing involves delivering gene-editing tools directly to the target tissue within the body for diseases like liver disorders or eye diseases. Each approach has its own set of challenges and benefits depending on the specific disease being targeted.
  • Lipid nanoparticles are tiny particles made of lipids that can carry genetic material like CRISPR components into cells. In the context of CRISPR delivery, lipid nanoparticles are used to transport the Cas9 enzyme and guide RNA to target cells, such as hepatocytes in the liver, for gene editing purposes. These nanoparticles protect the CRISPR components and help them enter the cells efficiently, enhancing the effectiveness of the gene editing process. This method is being explored as a way to deliver CRISPR components for treating genetic diseases like amyloidosis or reducing cholesterol levels in cardiovascular disease.
  • The PCSK9 gene encodes a protein that regulates the levels of LDL cholesterol in the blood. Mutations in the PCSK9 gene can lead to higher LDL cholesterol levels, increasing the risk of cardiovascular diseases. Inhibiting PCSK9 function can lower LDL cholesterol levels, reducing the risk of heart disease. Me ...

Counterarguments

  • Ethical concerns: There are significant ethical considerations regarding the use of CRISPR technology, especially in germline editing, which can affect future generations.
  • Off-target effects: While CRISPR is precise, there is still the potential for off-target mutations, which could lead to unintended consequences or new diseases.
  • Accessibility and inequality: Advanced therapies developed using CRISPR may be expensive, potentially leading to inequalities in access to treatment.
  • Immune response: The introduction of CRISPR components into the body could elicit an immune response, which may limit the effectiveness of the treatment or cause adverse effects.
  • Long-term effects: The long-term effects of CRISPR-based treatments are still unknown, and there may be unforeseen risks associated with permanent genetic alterations.
  • Technical challenges: Delivery of CRISPR components to specific tissues or cell types remains a significant challenge, and the efficiency of editing can vary.
  • Regulatory hurdles: CRISPR-based therapies face stringent regulatory processes, which can dela ...

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#323 - CRISPR and the future of gene editing: scientific advances, genetic therapies, disease treatment potential, and ethical considerations | Feng Zhang, Ph.D.

The challenges and limitations of CRISPR-based therapies, including delivery and ethics

Feng Zhang, Peter Attia, and others delve into the complexities of CRISPR-Cas9 gene editing, including its delivery methods, ethical controversies, and limitations.

Efficient in vivo delivery of CRISPR components remains a key challenge

The podcast opens with discussions on the importance of delivery methods for the success of CRISPR-based therapies. They talk about the success and limitations in targeting cells, mentioning specific cells in the liver and eye. Zhang acknowledges that although CRISPR components like Cas9 can already be delivered to some cells in vivo, the large size of proteins like Cas9 and Cas-13 poses substantial challenges. Nanoparticle formulations and various viral vectors are being developed to improve the efficiency of in vivo delivery, yet no method has achieved complete efficiency. For instance, even though lipid nanoparticles can deliver Cas9 and guide RNA to the liver, when it comes to gene editing for repairing vision, the combined inefficiencies of the delivery system with gene editing result in incomplete restoration.

The large size of Cas9 protein makes it difficult to package into viral vectors for delivery

Zhang discusses how the size of the Cas9 protein, which is 1,300 amino acids long, and Cas-13, which is roughly 1,000 amino acids, complicate their packaging into viral vectors. This issue has led to the exploration for new, more compact proteins. Although some have been discovered, they often lack the specificity or activity of Cas9.

Nanoparticle and other formulations are being developed to improve in vivo delivery

Attia talks about the lipid nanoparticle delivery system used in the liver, and Zhang indicates that large-scale mRNA production and the formulation of nanoparticles are steps toward improving in vivo delivery and reducing costs over time.

The long-term safety and potential for unintended effects of germline editing are ethical concerns

The podcast addresses the ethical considerations of gene editing, including the debate surrounding germline modification. A controversial case from 2018 involved editing the embryos of a couple where the father was HIV positive, resulting in the births of mosaic baby girls, meaning the editing was not entirely successful and introduced unintended effects. Multinational working groups are now tasked to tackle these ethical discussions, with a general consensus against pursuing germline editing at the moment.

There is ongoing debate about whether germline editing should be pursued, even for severe genetic diseases

Zhang states the technological capability exists to treat disorders of inborn errors of metabolism or other genetic mutations with gene editing. There's a debate and ongoing discussions about the suitability of germline editing for conditions with severe implications, such as Huntington's disease and inborn errors of metabolism. One alternative solution offered is pre-implantation genetic testing to screen out embryos with mutations.

Regulations vary globally, with some countries banning or restricting germline modifications

When discussing the regulation of gene editing, Attia implies a global variation in how such technologies are received and governed. Zhang refers to legal regulations in the US that prevent germ ...

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The challenges and limitations of CRISPR-based therapies, including delivery and ethics

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • CRISPR-Cas9 gene editing is a molecular biology technique that allows precise modification of living organisms' genomes by cutting DNA at specific locations using the Cas9 nuclease guided by synthetic RNA. This technology is significant for its applications in biotechnology and medicine, enabling targeted gene editing for various purposes like creating new medicines, genetically modified organisms, and potentially treating genetic diseases. The technique has sparked ethical debates, especially regarding its use in human germline genetic modification. The development of CRISPR-Cas9 earned Jennifer Doudna and Emmanuelle Charpentier the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 2020.
  • In vivo delivery methods in the context of CRISPR-based therapies involve techniques to transport CRISPR components like Cas9 and guide RNA into living organisms, targeting specific cells for gene editing. These methods are crucial for the success of gene editing treatments. Scientists are exploring various approaches such as nanoparticle formulations and viral vectors to enhance the efficiency of delivering CRISPR components in vivo. The challenge lies in achieving effective and precise delivery to the desired cells within the body for therapeutic purposes.
  • Nanoparticle formulations in the context of CRISPR-based therapies involve using nanoparticles to deliver CRISPR components like Cas9 and guide RNA to target cells in the body. These nanoparticles are designed to improve the efficiency of in vivo delivery by protecting the CRISPR components and facilitating their uptake by cells. Nanoparticles offer advantages such as high surface-area-to-volume ratio, tunability, and the ability to interact with biomolecules for targeted delivery. However, challenges like nanotoxicity and biodistribution need to be addressed for effective use in gene editing therapies.
  • Viral vectors are modified viruses used to deliver genetic material into cells for various purposes like gene therapy. They leverage the natural ability of viruses to transport genetic material into host cells. Different types of viral vectors have specific strengths and limitations, making them suitable for different applications. In gene therapy, viral vectors are commonly used due to their efficiency in delivering genetic cargo into target cells.
  • Germline editing involves making changes to the genetic material in reproductive cells, such as sperm and eggs, which can be passed on to future generations. This type of genetic modification raises ethical concerns due to the potential long-term implications and the ability to alter the traits of offspring. Germline editing is distinct from somatic cell editing, which targets non-reproductive cells and does not affect future generations. The debate around germline editing often revolves around balancing the potential benefits for treating genetic diseases with the ethical considerations and risks involved.
  • Inborn errors of metabolism are genetic disorders caused by defects in enzymes that affect the body's ability to convert substances. These disorders can lead to the accumulation of toxic substances or a reduced ability to produce essential compounds. They are also known as congenital metabolic diseases or inherited metabolic disorders.
  • Polygenic traits are characteristics influenced by multiple genes, each contributing a small effect to the overall trait. These traits are not controlled by a single gene but are the result of interactions between various genetic factors. Polygenic traits are common in complex human characteristics like height, intelligence, and susceptibility to diseases. Rese ...

Counterarguments

  • While efficient in vivo delivery is challenging, some argue that the rapid pace of biotechnological innovation could soon overcome these hurdles, as has been seen with other once-difficult delivery mechanisms for therapies.
  • Regarding the size of Cas9, alternative smaller Cas proteins, like CasX and CasY, have been identified and may offer solutions to the packaging issues, though they may require further development to match Cas9's efficiency and specificity.
  • Nanoparticles and viral vectors are not the only delivery methods being explored; physical methods like microinjection or electroporation and chemical methods like cell-penetrating peptides could also offer viable alternatives.
  • Ethical concerns about germline editing are significant, but some bioethicists argue that with proper oversight and consent, germline editing could be ethically permissible, especially if it prevents serious genetic diseases.
  • The debate on germline editing often includes the argument that with adequate safeguards, it could be more humane to correct genetic diseases at the germline level rather than subjecting individuals to lifelong treatments.
  • While regulations do vary globally, some argue that international consensus and cooperation could lead to standardized regulations that balance innovation with ethical considerations.
  • The difficulty in editing large genes and targeting polygenic traits is acknowl ...

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