Join Peter Attia and guest Jason McCarthy on "The Peter Attia Drive" as they delve into the multifaceted world of rucking and the birth of GoRuck from a blend of military experience and entrepreneurial innovation. Immerse yourself in the foundational story of Jason's life-altering decision to enlist in the military after the pivotal events of 9/11 and how his journey through the Special Forces shaped the creation of GoRuck. The discussion candidly explores the transition from military to civilian life and the personal trials that Jason endured, which ultimately led to the inception of a brand that intertwines physical fitness with a deep sense of community.
As they examine the intricacies of rucking, Attia and McCarthy cover everything from beginner tips to the nuances of selecting the right gear, such as footwear and rucksacks versus weight vests. Learn about the physical and mental health benefits of rucking, including key advice for preventing injuries and how to start incorporating this form of exercise into your regimen. The episode also illuminates the spectrum of GoRuck events, from accessible community-building challenges to the intense dedication required for extreme endurance tests, highlighting the company's commitment to fostering strength, endurance, and camaraderie among participants of all ages and backgrounds.
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Jason McCarthy joins the military after witnessing the events of 9/11 and the aftermath that instilled a sense of duty and a desire for service. The influence of his family's military background, coupled with the urgency of the unfolding wars, drives him to enlist as a way to fulfill his destiny in combat. Despite his eligibility for officer candidacy, the immediate need for Special Forces soldiers leads him to enlist directly. Guided by the example of Johnny Michael Spann and the communal solidarity post-9/11, his journey into the service begins with determination to contribute to his country's efforts.
Exiting the military, Jason McCarthy confronts a difficult transition to civilian life, characterized by a loss of identity and purpose previously rooted in the military's structure and camaraderie. Reading Sebastian Junger's "Tribe" helps him understand societal challenges that exacerbate soldiers' difficulties post-service. He grapples with isolation, the struggle to build new relationships, and his self-view tainted by the feeling of quitting. Personal losses, including a failed marriage and homelessness, coincide with his reintegration. However, with time, support through the GI Bill, and reconnecting with the value of collective endeavor, he pivots toward creating a positive civilian identity anchored in his military experiences.
The development of GoRuck and its events, while not fully detailed in the provided text, builds on Jason McCarthy's Special Forces training experiences. He harnesses the community-building and mental health benefits of rucking to formulate the ethos of GoRuck challenges. The GoRuck footwear line, along with advice on preventing common injuries, underscores the priority of safety and proper technique in these activities. Beginners are encouraged to start rucking with any backpack and manageable weight, focusing on proper posture and gradual progression to avoid injuries and maximize the exercise potential.
Jason McCarthy, paired with Peter Attia, differentiates the rucksack and weight vest in terms of ergonomics and function, with the rucksack favored for its comfort and posture benefits. Aesthetic differences and tactical uses are also discussed, noting that rucksacks blend more seamlessly into civilian life. The choice ultimately hinges on training goals, ergonomics, and personal preferences, including whether to use chest straps or hip belts for additional support.
GoRuck's events are steeped in the ethos of Special Forces training, designed to forge camaraderie and individual resilience through rigorous, team-based endurance activities. The flagship GoRuck Challenge has evolved into diverse events that cater to varying levels of fitness and demographic groups, including children. These events challenge participants in different environments and under harsh conditions while emphasizing teamwork. Training for GoRuck's extreme events requires building endurance beyond the event's demands, reinforcing the role of community and the growth of rucking as an increasingly popular activity.
1-Page Summary
The journey of Jason McCarthy to the military, as recounted by Attia, is rooted in the seismic impact of 9/11 and underscored by a tradition of service.
After the tragic events of 9/11 that left him with feelings of sadness, anger, and rage, Jason McCarthy felt compelled to serve his country as a military-age male with no dependents or attachments. The images of military action and sense of duty entwined with familial ties pushed him toward the decision to enlist. Inspired by the communal spirit seen in New York post 9/11 and the example set by Johnny Michael Spann, the first casualty of the war and a former Marine who joined the CIA, McCarthy knew that his path would intersect with military service.
While originally considering joining the CIA's paramilitary side, during an interview, he was advised to first gain military experience. Despite his initial interest in officer candidacy due to his college education, the urgent buildup to the Iraq War convinced him to enlist directly, foregoing the traditional officer route in favor of a program that guaranteed slots in Special Forces training, provided he passed each phase. He joined the army, motivated by the wars he felt were passing him by, and a conviction that combat was his destiny.
Special Forces training is designed to be physically challenging in order to prepare soldiers for the endurance needed in high-stress situations.
Jason describes rucking, carrying a weighted pack, as the foundation of Special Forces training, which he was not acquainted with before joining the military. Rucking is an ever-present aspect of the training regimen, beginning with simpler tasks and advancing to complex scenarios that integrate team tactics while carrying significantly heavy weights. Initially, trainees might carry a "rubber duck" rifle during ruck run competitions for distances of 10 or 12 miles, but the weight and complexity of equipment increase, with rucksacks eventually weighing around 85 pounds. This shift from individual to team load carrying embeds the ethos of collective endurance. The training emphasizes operation under exhaustion and without lucid t ...
How Jason found his way to the military after 9/11
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The podcast shares Jason McCarthy's emotionally charged journey as he transitioned out of military service, delving into the myriad challenges that accompanied his return to civilian life.
Jason McCarthy recounts the value of the camaraderie and knowledge gained while serving, especially when deployed in Iraq in 2007. His decision to leave the military, stemming from the completion of his initial five-year contract, was jarring, made difficult by the stark contrast between the military environment and civilian life. Jason faced an overwhelming shift in identity, purpose, and daily structure.
He grappled with the emotional contemplation of mortality, differing from the hypothetical scenarios in training, and he pulled strength from his team and training. McCarthy recalls reading Sebastian Junger's "Tribe," finding parallels in societal problems contributing to the difficulties soldiers face when leaving the structured, purpose-filled environment of the military.
Upon returning to civilian life, Jason faced a devastating loss of identity and a vacuum of the profound community and purpose he had known. This tumultuous period was compounded by a lack of geographical and temporal alignment with friends from the service. The sense of quitting plagued him, affecting his self-view and leading to a rejection of military-structured routines, including physical training. He concealed his military past, even resorting to lying, as he struggled with isolation, the challenge of building new relationships, and a deep-seated shame for leaving while successful.
Personal complications further intensified Jason’s challenges. With his wife deployed abroad, the strain on their relationship led to emotional turmoil as he considered returning to the military or joining the CIA while his wife faced her own career compromises— a dynamic that culminated in their divorce. This period included grappling with the loss of their relationship, sleeping on a friend's couch, and the strain of trying to salvage their marriage remotely, only to reunite and remarry years later.
Post-military life left Jason with no job and a failed marriage, leading to a reclusive phase filled with whiskey and reflection. With some savings and the support of the GI Bill for business school, ...
Jason's transition out of the military and the challenges he faced
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While the GoRuck Challenge event has now become a signature for the brand, its origins and development were not outlined in the provided transcript chunk.
Jason McCarthy acknowledges the influence his Special Forces training, especially the aspect of rucking, had on the development of GoRuck's events. He explains that rucking fosters community through ruck clubs, echoing the teamwork spirit learned in the military. Peter Attia touts rucking as great for both physical exercise and mental health, suitable for various levels of fitness training, and an opportunity for silent reflection or social interaction. McCarthy advises beginners to start with comfortable weights, and he highlights that carrying a load on the shoulders provides resistance training starting from the upper body. Rucking is viewed as an integral human activity, historically significant, and both an "unlock" in life and a promotion of active living with a forward-moving mental outlook.
McCarthy and Attia discuss the importance of supportive footwear in preventing injuries during rucking. They mention GoRuck's footwear line, which caters to activities such as lifting, dragging, and rucking, and emphasize an eight-millimeter drop to support the foot's arches and prevent injuries such as shin splints.
McCarthy emphasizes the need for proper weight and technique when rucking to prevent common injuries. He advises starting with a lighter weight, avoiding running with a ruck, and ensuring the rucksack is lowered before landing to prevent breaking legs. Attia shares his personal experiences with ...
The origin story of GoRuck and how the GoRuck Challenge event began
Peter Attia and Jason McCarthy delve into the specifics of rucking gear, explaining the ergonomic differences between using a rucksack and a weight vest for training and their suitability for activities like hunting.
Peter Attia asks Jason McCarthy to explain the ergonomic differences between a rucksack and a weight vest in the context of physical training. McCarthy points out that weight vests are integral for soldiers and police officers as they simulate wearing a bulletproof vest, aligning with the "train like you fight" philosophy. However, Attia and McCarthy discuss potential downsides of using a weight vest, including that it can negatively affect one's posture by causing downward compression and hunched shoulders. This is because the weight vest restricts deep breathing, causing a more pronounced curvature of the neck and lower back.
In contrast, rucksacks are favored by McCarthy for being more comfortable and posture corrective. He explains that when properly adjusted and cinched down tightly, a rucksack encourages the shoulders to roll back, which supports solid posture and prevents unhealthy curvature of the spine. Additionally, a rucksack allows for deeper breaths compared to the restrictive nature of a weight vest as it does not hinder the formation of the air cavity in the front of the belly.
Attia and McCarthy also touch on the visual and aesthetic differences between weight vests and rucksacks, noting that rucksacks are less conspic ...
Differences between rucksacks, weight vests, footwear choices, and other gear
The podcast reveals how GoRuck taps into the foundational aspects of Special Forces training with its endurance challenges, known for rucking, and developing a culture that fosters teamwork and personal tenacity.
GoRuck is framed as a company that organizes events based on the concept of Special Forces training. Participants in GoRuck events adopt the mentality of "iron sharpening iron," with a mutual motivation not to cheat. The training for these events involves not only rucking and high-intensity CrossFit but also the fundamental principle of integrity in preparing for physical challenges reminiscent of military service. The approach is about more than physical exercise; it instills values and camaraderie reminiscent of elite military units.
Described as "Fight Club with Backpacks," the GoRuck Challenge is an event that culminates these training practices into intense team-based endurance exercises. Founded by Jason McCarthy, the GoRuck Challenge started as five-hour events but expanded to "Tough Challenges" lasting 10-12 hours, with variations stretching to 24 hours. In these challenges, the weight carried by participants is determined by body weight and the entire event is overseen by Special Forces cadre.
Activities include rigorous exercises such as "Indian runs," calisthenics, and carrying heavy logs. Originally, participants carried bricks and duct tape provided by McCarthy, but the events have since become more participant-driven, with people bringing their own materials. McCarthy, who hosted these challenges across the country, often performed reconnaissance on Fridays to prepare for the weekend's events. These grueling weekends might include back-to-back events, demonstrating the demanding nature of both organizing and participating in these challenges.
The GoRuck Challenge has grown from humble beginnings to over 10,000 events since 2010. Originally McCarthy did not prescribe specific training for the events; people simply needed to show up. The events are seen as a rite of passage, leaving participants wanting more despite the hardships they face. The company hosted over a thousand events per year before the pandemic, indicating GoRuck's significant cultural impact, with most participants completing the challenges they signed up for.
GoRuck events emphasize teamwork, often requiring participants to aid teammates struggling to keep pace. McCarthy recounts an incident where a participant was asked to give up his ruck to help maintain the team’s speed, which ultimately strengthened the group's bond. The events are conducted under various conditions, from the brutal heat of Key West to historical treks across Normandy. Participants may be required to choose between individual exertion and group cohesion, often s ...
GoRuck's events and the extreme endurance challenges they organize
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