Join David Remnick and Deborah Treisman as they welcome Teju Cole on "The New Yorker: Fiction" podcast for a contemplative journey through the intricacies of life and art. In this episode, Cole explores the poignant metaphor of swimming as a means to understand our place in an ever-changing world. He delves into the concept of momentum, both in the context of reading and navigating life's currents, considering the tangible sense of anonymity and freedom found beneath the water's surface. Here, swimming becomes a gateway to pondering the notions of identity and the liberating effects of 'swimmingness'.
The conversation also traverses the delicate art of storytelling and the appreciation of cultural beauty. Cole seeks an authentic experience of beauty, one devoid of pretense, and instead rooted in a quietly profound engagement with the world. The duo focuses on personhood versus collective identities, scrutinizing how stories often blur the unique with the broader narratives. Emphasizing the respect for our 'heartbroken little era,' they critique the cynicism in certain artistic expressions and celebrate an honest, empathetic approach to the shared journey of life. "The New Yorker: Fiction" invites listeners to reflect on individuality, sensitivity, and the resonating power of storytelling.
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Teju Cole draws a parallel between swimming and navigating life, emphasizing the continuous motion required to find and maintain one's place in the world. He sees swimming as a metaphor for the joy derived from being in harmony with the dynamic currents of existence. Cole contemplates the concept of momentum in swimming, likening it to reading and life, where constant balance and adaptation are necessary. He remarks on the sensation of losing personhood when submerged in water, describing it as an envelopment in an indifferent element, leading to anonymity and a release from the constraints of identity. He is attracted to the notion of 'swimmingness' and its ability to provide an otherworldly experience of purity and freedom.
Cole ruminates on the complexities of appreciating art and culture authentically, aspiring to experience beauty without the pretenses or burdens of cultural sophistication. He narrates a character's confrontation with unexpected beauty and the deep emotional response it inspires. Describing receptivity to the world's subtleties, Cole emphasizes that true appreciation involves quiet engagement and presence, allowing for an immersive experience that connects us to something larger. He views storytelling not as a means to instruct, but as a way to offer immersive experiences that can resonate deeply with individuals.
The discussion with Treisman and Cole centers on the challenges of portraying individual versus collective identities in storytelling. They examine how language tends to simplify complex individual experiences into broader group narratives. Treisman addresses the notion of using composite groups to absolve personal accountability, while Cole contemplates the uniqueness of "one person only," which resists being defined in composite terms. They share an understanding of the significance of individual encounters, and the conversation underlines the importance of acknowledging the irreplaceable nature of each person.
Cole and Treisman reflect on the importance of respecting the sensitivity of our era, advocating for an approach that avoids mockery of our "heartbroken little era." They discuss life as a dynamic pouring in and out, mirroring the ebb and flow of human existence. The narrative depicts a transition from individual awareness to a collective recognition of sorrow, highlighting empathy and a resolve to honor the shared human experience. Emphasizing the sincerity in artistic expressions, they critique the cynicism found in lesser works and advocate for genuine engagement with the complex tapestry of life.
1-Page Summary
Teju Cole delves into swimming as a profound metaphor for momentum, position, and the transcendence of individual identity.
Teju Cole ponders the dynamic nature of finding one's place in the world, drawing a parallel to swimming where "every water has the right place to be, but that place is in motion." He suggests that just as swimming requires constant adaptation and movement to find the right place, life demands continuous adjustment and progress. Cole reflects on the joy his partner finds in swimming, capturing the essence of being in the right rhythm with the water.
Cole notes the necessity of maintaining the right momentum and not failing the water when swimming. It’s a process that requires being in a particular place that is, by its nature, always moving. The significance of preserving momentum extends beyond the water—it is a metaphor for the flow in reading and in life, where each action is reminiscent of balancing in the ever-moving water.
In his reflections, Cole speaks to the loss of individuality that comes with being submerged in water. He notes that in the water, a person has no personhood and is enveloped in an element indifferent to their existence. Furthermore, when swimming, aspects of ...
Swimming as a Metaphor
Teju Cole explores the challenges of appreciating art and culture in a meaningful way that’s devoid of pretension, submerging into the beauty of the world, and how one receives the emotions that art and nature can evoke.
Teju Cole delves into the complexity of writing about Bach and the inconveniences related to the association of his music with high culture. He reveals a desire to enjoy art for its inherent beauty without the need for cultural signaling or the burden of proving one's cultural sophistication.
Cole narrates an anecdote in which a character ponders how every body of water has unique characteristics and how its misuse may well involve failing to recognize beauty in its rawest form. In his quest to genuinely appreciate cultural works, Cole aims to situate himself directly in beauty's path.
Cole describes a moment when a character encounters a fox illuminated by a street lamp, its outline drawn in phosphorescent chalk. The scene, glowing and indescribable, represents a confrontation with unexpected beauty. This illustrates how one may confront beauty in everyday life and be moved beyond words.
Through a narrative voice, Teju Cole speaks to the notion of receptivity — explaining a moment when a character regards a fox and the pears as a gift, akin to the way Bach's music is presented as a gift. This interaction is about more than simply observing the scene; it’s about how the world is internalized and received.
Cole further explains that appreciating the world can mean ...
Art, Culture, and Sensitivity
The nuanced conversation surrounding Anne Carson's work, as presented by Treisman and Cole, examines the intricate relationship between an individual and collective identities, and how these concepts are navigated through language and storytelling.
Treisman and Cole delve into the complexities of representing singularity versus composite groups in narrative frameworks. They question the legitimacy of collective representation and the ease with which it can overshadow the significance of individual experience.
Treisman discusses the idea of composite entities, such as groups identified as migrants, swimmers, the selfish, or the damned. She notes that when one speaks about a group rather than an individual, it provides a way to escape personal liability. This point is highlighted in the fact that one character, Chandler, stands as a singularity against the backdrop of the composite concept of refugees, marking his distinct status as an individual with a name and character.
Discussing the contrast between the collective and the individual, Cole focuses on the title "One equals one," implying an exploration of encountering another as an equal—a singular, irreplaceable person. He suggests that sentences may encapsulate groups but fall short in capturing the essence of an individual's personhood.
Moreover, the conversation between Treisman and Cole emphasizes a sha ...
Personhood and Groups
The contemplation of what it means to truly experience life and the way we view our existence within the collective journey of humanity is explored through a poignant narrative and insightful discussion.
Through literary introspection, a profound sentiment is shared about respecting the sensitivity of our current times. The narrator reflects on the need to refrain from ridiculing our "heartbroken little era," a term that expresses both the fragility and tenderness of the period in which we live. This reflection arrives as a pivotal moment of insight that accelerates the heartbeat, sparked by the context of disciplined emotional containment that precedes it. Teju Cole and Deborah Treisman delve into the complexity of reconciling inner tranquility with the simultaneous suffering of others, a stark dichotomy that underscores the human condition.
The discussion captures the oscillation of existence—a notion paralleled by the image of Chandler, a character who is likened to a receding tide, epitomizing the ebb and flow of being. Being alive is characterized not as a static state but as a dynamic "pouring in and out," a sequence of acquiring and relinquishing, being replenished and then finding oneself hollow again.
Cole articulates a transition in how characters morph from states of individual immersion to a recognition of a collective sorrow. It is this shift that underpins a newfound sensitivity and the resolve not to disparage the shared plight of humanity, which he ...
Not Mocking Our Times
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