Podcasts > The Megyn Kelly Show > New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

By SiriusXM

Join Megyn Kelly and a host of experts including Robert Hur, Mike Davis, Dave Aronberg, Jim Jordan, Jonna Spilbor, and Amy Chozick on "The Megyn Kelly Show" as they delve deep into current compelling legal cases and the challenges enveloping the realm of political journalism. Explore pressing topics such as the questioning of journalistic integrity, the increasing skepticism towards media narratives, and the profound effect of economic pressures on newsroom operations. This episode provides a candid discussion about the erosion of public trust, driven by unfortunate lapses in reporting accuracy and the evolution of journalism's mission.

Shift the focus to criminal legality as Megyn Kelly unpacks the perplexing Jennifer Dulos disappearance case, the scrutiny facing Bryan Kohberger's indictment in the Idaho murders, and the dramatic conviction of "Rust" armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. The episode casts a critical eye on the complexity of evidence, trial delays, and the intricate implications for those involved, such as Alec Baldwin. Expert opinions navigate through the labyrinth of legalities and responsibilities, providing insights into the processes and possible outcomes of these high-profile cases.

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New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

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New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

1-Page Summary

Issues with trust and bias in political journalism

Political journalism faces criticism for its perceived loss of integrity, objectivity, and authenticity. Discussions around liberal bias contrast with calls for journalistic objectivity, with some noting the influence of politics on the media's storytelling. For instance, Mike Davis compares the genuineness of individuals like Cassidy Hutchinson with inauthentic figures, while Megyn Kelly criticizes Hutchinson's testimony as exaggerated. Amy Chozick debates objectivity versus authenticity, highlighting issues with gotcha journalism.

Megyn Kelly and Dave Aronberg express skepticism toward journalistic motives and practices, indicating an erosion of trust, exacerbated by past reporting errors such as those during the Iraq War and Clinton scandals. Chozick emphasizes that shifts in journalism's mission, driven by economic pressures and resulting newsroom downsizing, contribute to the decreasing public trust.

The unresolved circumstances of Jennifer Dulos's disappearance continue to captivate attention. Jennifer, seen as intellectual and once living in a Connecticut mansion with her husband, Fotis Dulos, went missing after dropping off their children at school. Although her body was not found, Fotis was implicated in her suspected death and later committed suicide, maintaining his innocence until his death.

Michelle Traconis, Fotis Dulos’s girlfriend, was implicated as an accomplice in Jennifer’s disappearance due to evidence such as surveillance footage and Jennifer's blood-stained garments found in trash bags. Despite her defense's arguments, Traconis was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and evidence tampering. Interviews and DNA analyses reinforced her involvement. Megyn Kelly has discussed the case, noting the tragic loss for the Dulos children, now being raised by Jennifer's mother.

The trial date set for 2025 in the Idaho murders case

Evidence against Bryan Kohberger for the Idaho murders is under scrutiny. Megyn Kelly doubts the sufficiency of evidence for a conviction, with concerns over DNA traces, vehicle sightings, and cellphone data. The defense, led by Ann Taylor, has sought to delay the trial, filing for a venue change and questioning the grand jury indictment. Legal expert David Wohl notes delays are common in death penalty cases and suggests that the prosecution might offer a plea deal to avoid prolonged proceedings. The trial is slated for summer 2025.

Guilty verdict in the Rust armorer trial and what it means for Alec Baldwin

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed's guilty verdict as the armorer on the "Rust" film set has led to further discussion about Alec Baldwin’s potential culpability. The prosecution argued Gutierrez-Reed's failures in ammunition checks led to the shooting. While the defense pointed to chaos on set and lack of trust in bullet suppliers, her conviction brings Baldwin's actions into question. He was seen handling the weapon carelessly, and initial claims of not pulling the trigger are contested.

Baldwin’s production role raises additional safety concerns. David Wohl mentions a 1993 incident that might be used in Baldwin's defense and speculates that, despite the armorer's conviction, Baldwin may not face criminal charges, though civil liabilities are possible. The uniqueness of the tragedy and the evidence introduced against Gutierrez-Reed could impact Baldwin’s upcoming legal challenges.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Amy Chozick's debate on objectivity versus authenticity in journalism revolves around the balance between presenting news objectively while also capturing the authentic essence of a story. She highlights the challenges journalists face in maintaining objectivity in their reporting, especially in today's media landscape where authenticity and personal narratives are increasingly valued. Chozick's discussions shed light on the evolving nature of journalism and the ongoing debate on how to best convey the truth while staying true to the authentic experiences of those involved.
  • Gotcha journalism is a style of reporting that aims to catch public figures, often politicians, off guard or reveal inconsistencies in their statements. It focuses on sensationalizing mistakes or controversial remarks rather than in-depth analysis of policies or issues. Critics argue that it can prioritize creating headlines over providing meaningful information to the public, leading to a shallow understanding of complex topics. This approach can contribute to a lack of trust in the media and public figures, as it may prioritize gotcha moments over substantive discussions.
  • Dave Aronberg is a former Florida state attorney known for his work in law and politics. His skepticism toward journalistic motives and practices may stem from his experiences with media coverage of legal cases and political events. Aronberg's perspective on journalism could be influenced by his observations of how the media operates and the impact it has on public perception. His views on the subject may reflect broader concerns about the integrity and trustworthiness of the media industry.
  • Economic pressures in journalism, such as declining advertising revenue and the rise of digital media, have forced news organizations to prioritize profitability over traditional journalistic values. This shift can lead to cost-cutting measures like newsroom downsizing and increased reliance on sensationalism to attract audiences. As a result, the focus of journalism may shift from providing in-depth, objective reporting to producing content that generates more clicks and revenue. This change can impact the public's trust in the media's credibility and objectivity.
  • Jennifer Dulos, a woman from Connecticut, went missing after dropping off her children at school. Her husband, Fotis Dulos, was implicated in her suspected death and later committed suicide. Michelle Traconis, Fotis Dulos's girlfriend, was also implicated as an accomplice in Jennifer's disappearance and was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and evidence tampering.
  • Hannah Gutierrez-Reed was the armorer on the "Rust" film set, responsible for managing and ensuring the safe handling of firearms during production. Her role involved overseeing the use of weapons on set, including conducting safety checks and providing guidance on firearm protocols. The armorer's primary duty is to maintain a safe working environment by handling and supervising all aspects related to firearms used in filming. In the context of the "Rust" tragedy, Gutierrez-Reed's responsibilities and actions as the armorer came under scrutiny following a fatal shooting incident involving actor Alec Baldwin.
  • Alec Baldwin's potential legal outcomes following the Rust armorer trial involve speculation on whether he will face criminal charges for his role in the shooting incident on set. Despite the armorer's guilty verdict, it is uncertain if Baldwin will be criminally charged, though civil liabilities could arise. The evidence presented in the trial and Baldwin's actions handling the weapon will influence the legal decisions ahead. The complexities of the case and Baldwin's position as a producer add layers to the potential legal ramifications he may face.

Counterarguments

  • Political journalism's integrity may not be entirely lost; there are still many journalists and outlets committed to factual reporting and balanced coverage.
  • The debate on liberal bias might overlook the existence of conservative media outlets and their influence, suggesting a more complex media landscape than a simple liberal bias.
  • The influence of politics on media storytelling can be seen as a reflection of the inherently political nature of news rather than a flaw in journalism.
  • Criticism of figures like Cassidy Hutchinson for authenticity may be subjective and overlook the complexities of personal experiences in political contexts.
  • Gotcha journalism, while criticized, can sometimes reveal important truths or contradictions that are in the public interest.
  • Skepticism towards journalistic motives and practices may ignore the ethical standards and rigorous fact-checking processes that many journalists adhere to.
  • Past reporting errors, while undermining trust, have also led to improved journalistic standards and practices over time.
  • Economic pressures and newsroom downsizing are industry-wide challenges that many journalists strive to overcome in order to maintain quality reporting.
  • The implication of Fotis Dulos in Jennifer Dulos's suspected death was based on evidence, and his suicide could be interpreted in various ways, not necessarily as an admission of guilt.
  • Michelle Traconis's conviction may be seen as just by some, but others may argue that the legal process should remain open to scrutiny and appeal.
  • Doubts about the sufficiency of evidence against Bryan Kohberger could be premature, as the full details of the prosecution's case may not yet be public.
  • The defense's efforts to delay the trial and change the venue in the Idaho murders case could be standard legal strategy to ensure a fair trial.
  • The guilty verdict in the Rust armorer trial does not necessarily imply Alec Baldwin's culpability, as responsibility for safety on set is typically shared among multiple parties.
  • Baldwin's production role and the incident on the "Rust" set could raise broader industry-wide issues about safety standards and practices rather than individual blame.
  • Speculation on Baldwin facing civil liabilities rather than criminal charges is just that—speculation—until the legal process is concluded.

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New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

Issues with trust and bias in political journalism

The landscape of political journalism is scrutinized as voices within the industry question the integrity, objectivity, and trustworthiness that underpin journalistic practices.

Liberal bias and trusting objectivity

Discussions unfold around the perceived liberal bias in journalism, contrasting the aspirations of objectivity against the realities of media influence and storytelling.

Authenticity versus gotcha journalism

Mike Davis suggests there is a lack of authenticity within political journalism, comparing the authenticity of particular individuals, such as Cassidy Hutchinson, to that of a stripper. Megyn Kelly criticizes Hutchinson's testimony during the January 6th hearing, labeling it as inauthentic and exaggerated. Amy Chozick further explores this dichotomy through fictional characters, engaging in debates over objectivity versus authenticity, and calling into question the practice of gotcha journalism, which aims to catch people out, as opposed to presenting a balanced narrative with clear opinions.

State of journalism today

An implied criticism of journalistic practices emerges, with figures like Megyn Kelly and Dave Aronberg reflecting skepticism toward reporting, questioning the motives behind where and why information is shared, and suggesting a lack of authenticity in the recounting of events. This ties into a broader concern over the influence of politics on journalistic objectivity, including judicial decisions being influenced by political pressures, as Mike Davis notes regarding a judge's actions following a political chal ...

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Issues with trust and bias in political journalism

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Mike Davis highlights the potential impact of political pressures on judicial decisions, suggesting that judges may be influenced by external factors when faced with political challenges. This connection underscores concerns about the impartiality and objectivity of the judiciary in cases where political interests intersect with legal matters. Davis's observation implies that the integrity of judicial decisions could be compromised when political considerations play a significant r ...

Counterarguments

  • Trust in journalism is not solely dependent on the industry's actions; it also reflects the public's increasing polarization and confirmation bias, where individuals may trust only sources that align with their pre-existing beliefs.
  • The perception of liberal bias in journalism may be countered by the existence of prominent conservative media outlets, which suggests a more balanced media landscape than the criticism implies.
  • Authenticity in journalism is subjective, and what one may perceive as a lack of authenticity, others might see as a necessary approach to uncovering truth or holding power to account.
  • Criticisms of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony as inauthentic could be challenged by the argument that personal testimonies are inherently subjective and can be authentic from the individual's perspective.
  • The practice of gotcha journalism, while criticized, can be defended as a method to reveal inconsistencies or dishonesty in public figures, which is a valuable service to the public.
  • Concerns about political influence on journalistic objectivity can be met with the argument that journalism has always operated within a political context, and that awareness of this can lead to better, more critical reporting.
  • Skepticism towards reporting may be countered by the fact that jour ...

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New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

Updates on the cases related to Jennifer Dulos's death

The mysterious and tragic series of events surrounding Jennifer Dulos's disappearance and the subsequent legal developments continue to unfold in Connecticut.

Fotis Dulos's murder of Jennifer Dulos

Jennifer Dulos, a mother described as beautiful and intellectual, married Fotis Dulos after they met at Brown University. Despite living in a large mansion in Farmington, Connecticut, their marriage eventually struggled. The police centered their investigation on Fotis Dulos, who was in the process of divorcing Jennifer, after she went missing following the drop-off of their five children at school. Despite never finding her body, authorities believe Fotis was responsible for Jennifer's death.

Fotis Dulos took his own life while under investigation, having denied any involvement in his wife's disappearance in a Dateline interview. His girlfriend at the time of Jennifer's death, Michelle Traconis, was tried for her alleged involvement.

Michelle Traconis's role as alleged accomplice

Michelle Traconis moved into the Dulos family home with her daughter while Fotis was still legally married to Jennifer. The evidence against her included surveillance footage of her with Fotis, disposing of garbage bags in dumpsters in Hartford, Connecticut, on the night Jennifer is believed to have been murdered. Among the retrieved items were Jennifer's bloody shirt and bra, which, along with cellphone location data, implicated Fotis and suggested Traconis's involvement.

Her lawyers claimed the footage was not definitive enough to confirm her presence, but Michelle Traconis was found guilty on charges of conspiracy to commit murder and tampering with evidence. Crucial in the case against her was an omitted trip on a list detailing her activities and interviews where she admitted to lying about her location on the morning Jennifer disappeared. David Wohl noted Traconis admitted to being with Fotis when ...

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Updates on the cases related to Jennifer Dulos's death

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Jennifer Dulos disappeared after dropping off her children at school in May 2019. Her disappearance sparked a massive search effort and a high-profile investigation. Despite extensive searches, her body has never been found.
  • The timeline of events surrounding Jennifer Dulos's disappearance is as follows: Jennifer Dulos went missing after dropping off her children at school. Fotis Dulos, her estranged husband, was the focus of the investigation. Fotis Dulos died by suicide while under investigation. Michelle Traconis, his girlfriend, was later tried for her alleged involvement in the case.
  • Michelle Traconis was accused of being an accomplice in the disappearance and presumed murder of Jennifer Dulos. Evidence against her included surveillance footage showing her with Fotis Dulos disposing of items bel ...

Counterarguments

...

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New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

The trial date set for 2025 in the Idaho murders case

Evidence against Bryan Kohberger

David Wohl and Megyn Kelly discuss the evidence against Bryan Kohberger, with Kelly expressing concern that the current evidence, including a spot of DNA on a knife sheath snap, sightings of a white Hyundai similar to Kohberger's around the area, and cell phone tower evidence, may not be sufficient for a conviction.

Defense strategy to delay trial

While the defense strategy has not been explicitly stated, Wohl and Kelly, along with Jonna Spilbor, analyze potential defense strategies for Bryan Kohberger involving his attorney Ann Taylor. Taylor has filed motions for a change of venue and questioned the validity of the grand jury indictment. These motions and challenges, such as disputing the validity of genetic genealogy evidence and requesting more time before the trial, suggest an intention to delay proceedings.

A summer 2025 trial date has been set, and Wohl notes that in death penalty cases, lengthy pre-tr ...

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The trial date set for 2025 in the Idaho murders case

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Genetic genealogy evidence involves using DNA testing to establish familial relationships between individuals, aiding in investigations by providing genetic data that can link suspects to crimes or victims. This type of evidence can be crucial in criminal cases where traditional investigative methods may not yield conclusive results. By analyzing genetic markers and patterns within DNA samples, investigators can potentially identify suspects or victims based on their genetic profiles. This method has become increasingly common in modern forensic investigations, offering a powerful tool for law enforcement agencies to solve cases.
  • A grand jury indictment is a formal charging document issued by a grand jury, which is a group of citizens empowered to determine if there is enough evidence to bring criminal charges against a person. It signifies that the grand jury has found probable cause to believe that the individual committed a specific offense. This step is crucial in the legal process as it initiates the formal prosecution of the accused individual. The indictment outlines the charges against the defendant and serves as the basis for the upcoming trial proceedings.
  • In death penalty cases, lengthy pre-trial periods are common due to the complexity and seriousness of these cases. The extensive legal procedures, including evidence gathering, motions, and jury selection, contribute to the extended pre-trial phase. The defense often utilizes this time to thoroughly prepare their case and explore all possible legal avenues. Delays can al ...

Counterarguments

  • Concerns about the sufficiency of evidence against Bryan Kohberger might be premature, as additional evidence could be presented at trial that has not been made public during pre-trial proceedings.
  • The defense's strategy to delay the trial could be a standard legal tactic to ensure a thorough and fair defense, rather than an attempt to simply prolong proceedings.
  • The motions for a change of venue and questioning the validity of the grand jury indictment could be legitimate concerns about the possibility of an impartial trial, rather than tactics to delay the trial.
  • Lengthy pre-trial periods, while common in death penalty cases, are not necessarily beneficial to the defense, as they can also cause financial and emotional strain on the defendant.
  • The prosecution's potential offer of a plea deal for life in prison without parole might not be solely to avoid dela ...

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New Biden Memory Revelations, and Movie Set Shooting Verdict, with Jonna Spilbor, David Wohl, Dave Aronberg, Mike Davis, and Amy Chozick | Ep. 744

Guilty verdict in the Rust armorer trial and what it means for Alec Baldwin

Megyn Kelly, David Wohl, and Jonna Spilbor discuss Hannah Gutierrez-Reed’s guilty verdict and how evidence presented there pertains to Alec Baldwin’s role and potential culpability in the tragic shooting on the "Rust" movie set.

Evidence against Hannah Gutierrez-Reed as armorer

During Gutierrez-Reed's trial, the prosecution argued she did not thoroughly check the dummy ammunition, which they likened to playing a "game of Russian roulette." Evidence suggested that the supplier of the bullets had a chaotic warehouse, potentially leading to the presence of live rounds on set. Wohl criticizes Gutierrez-Reed for not distinguishing live rounds from dummy rounds while loading the gun, leading to a negligent reliance on her to have loaded the gun correctly. Despite this, the armorer's defense claimed the set was chaotic, and she could not trust the bullet supplier, suggesting a lack of accountability. They also argued the responsibility for safety fell uphill to the production, implicating Baldwin as part of that hierarchy.

Implications for Alec Baldwin's culpability

In light of the armorer's trial, discussions have turned to Baldwin's actions. Outtakes show him handling the gun carelessly, which Kelly says could affect his defense since industry standards dictate that every person who handles a gun should check it. Kelly and Wohl discussed that on a movie set, there is a big difference in gun handling responsibilities compared to a gun range. Baldwin's defense initially claimed he never pulled the trigger, a statement Wohl found unbelievable. Wohl suggests Baldwin should have admitted to pulling the trigger but claimed reliance on set professionals. Baldwin's role as a producer may also lead to questions about overall set safety.

Evidence shows Baldwin using the gun to point and firing blanks after "cut" was called. Gutierrez-Reed claimed Baldwin was distracted during firearms training, potentially aiding his defense by attributing the responsibility to others. Alternatively, the prosecution might depict Baldwin's action in firing the gun as grossly negligent.

The assistant director, David Halls, who last handled and provided the gun to Baldwin, may signal a protocol breach, where normally the armorer is responsible until the firearm reaches the act ...

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Guilty verdict in the Rust armorer trial and what it means for Alec Baldwin

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The trial proceedings discussed involve the legal case against Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the armorer on the "Rust" movie set. The prosecution argued that Gutierrez-Reed failed to properly check the ammunition, leading to a tragic incident. The defense countered by suggesting a chaotic set environment and shared responsibility for safety. The implications for Alec Baldwin's culpability revolve around his actions with the gun on set and the chain of responsibility for firearm safety.
  • On a movie set, industry standards for handling guns involve strict protocols to ensure safety. Every person handling a gun is expected to check it thoroughly before and after each use. These standards are in place to prevent accidents and ensure the well-being of everyone on set. Failure to adhere to these standards can lead to serious consequences and legal implications.
  • On a movie set, the armorer is responsible for managing and handling all firearms and ensuring their safe use. The producer oversees various aspects of the film's production, including budgeting, scheduling, and overall project management. The assistant director assists the director in managing the set, coordinating activities, and ensuring that filming proceeds smoothly. Each role plays a crucial part in maintaining safety and efficiency on set.
  • The past incident from 1993 could be used by Baldwin to argue that checking for live rounds was not a standard practice in the industry at that time. Testimony from Joel Souza might be used to show that the presence of live ammunition on set was unlikely, potentially supporting Baldwin's lack of suspicion. These past incidents and testimonies are being referenced to provide context and potentially influence the perception of Baldwin's actions and level of responsibility in ...

Counterarguments

  • The armorer's responsibility is to ensure the safety of the firearms on set, but it is also the collective responsibility of the entire production team, including the actors, to maintain a safe working environment.
  • While the set may have been chaotic, it is the armorer's duty to maintain strict protocols regarding weapons safety, regardless of external circumstances.
  • The claim that Alec Baldwin never pulled the trigger could be supported by mechanical malfunction or a misinterpretation of events, though this seems unlikely given the nature of firearms.
  • Baldwin's role as a producer does imply a higher level of responsibility for overall set safety, but it does not necessarily mean he is directly responsible for the specific incident involving the firearm.
  • Careless handling of the gun by Baldwin, if true, would be a serious breach of protocol, but it does not automatically imply intent or direct culpability in the tragic outcome.
  • The assistant director's involvement in handling the firearm could indicate a systemic failure in safety protocols rather than individual negligence.
  • The guilty verdict for Gutierrez-Reed may not necessarily be an indicator of Baldwin's legal outcome, as each case is judged on its own merits and specific circumstances.
  • Past inciden ...

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