Podcasts > The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast > 565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

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In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Vanessa Van Edwards joins Peterson to discuss the role of nonverbal communication in social interactions. They explore how body language elements like posture, eye contact, and hand gestures affect the way people perceive and respond to us, while examining the delicate balance between projecting warmth and demonstrating competence in social situations.

The conversation covers common signs of social anxiety and provides practical strategies for more effective communication. Van Edwards and Peterson share specific techniques for improving social interactions, from the mechanics of proper handshakes to the use of open-ended questions in conversation. They explain how understanding and implementing these nonverbal communication principles can help people navigate social situations with greater confidence.

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565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

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565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

1-Page Summary

Nonverbal Communication and Body Language Cues

In a discussion between Jordan Peterson and Vanessa Van Edwards, the experts explore how nonverbal communication shapes our social interactions. Van Edwards explains that effective communication relies heavily on posture, distance, and eye contact. She emphasizes that proper body alignment and maintaining 60-70% eye contact during conversations can significantly improve engagement and respect.

The experts highlight several key principles: maintaining an open posture by avoiding crossed arms, respecting personal space through appropriate physical distance, and using controlled hand gestures to enhance verbal communication. Peterson notes that upright posture and relaxed body language are crucial for projecting confidence.

Warmth Versus Competence in Social Interactions

Van Edwards describes how balancing warmth and competence is essential for building trust and credibility. She suggests that warm cues like genuine smiling and open body language create positive first impressions, while precision and organized communication demonstrate expertise. However, Peterson and Van Edwards warn that too much emphasis on either quality can backfire—excessive warmth might suggest incompetence, while pure competence without warmth can appear cold and unapproachable.

Overcoming Social Awkwardness and Anxiety

The conversation turns to common signs of social anxiety, with Van Edwards identifying a "trifecta of awkwardness" including hunched posture, fidgeting, and up-speak (ending sentences with an upward inflection). To overcome these challenges, she shares her personal approach of studying nonverbal behavior and preparing conversation starters. Both experts emphasize the importance of viewing social interactions as opportunities rather than sources of anxiety.

Strategies For Improving Charismatic Communication

Van Edwards and Peterson provide practical advice for enhancing charismatic communication. They discuss the mechanics of proper handshakes (firm but not too tight, like gripping a peach) and the importance of matching others' energy and tempo. Van Edwards recommends using open-ended questions to create engaging conversations, while Peterson emphasizes the value of maintaining eye contact and speaking without notes to demonstrate subject mastery. Both experts agree that developing an authentic communication style is crucial for effective interaction.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While maintaining 60-70% eye contact is generally recommended, cultural differences can dictate what is considered appropriate, and in some cultures, too much eye contact can be seen as aggressive or disrespectful.
  • Open posture and controlled hand gestures are generally positive, but they can be misinterpreted or overdone, leading to a perception of insincerity or artificiality.
  • The idea that upright posture and relaxed body language always project confidence may not account for individual differences in expression and the fact that some people may naturally have a more reserved or different demeanor that doesn't align with these norms.
  • Balancing warmth and competence is important, but the optimal balance can vary greatly depending on the context, the relationship between the individuals, and the cultural background of the parties involved.
  • The suggestion that excessive warmth might imply incompetence could be challenged by the argument that warmth and competence are not mutually exclusive and that in many professions, warmth is a key component of perceived competence.
  • The notion that precision and organized communication always demonstrate expertise might overlook the value of creativity, spontaneity, and emotional intelligence in communication.
  • The strategies for overcoming social awkwardness, such as studying nonverbal behavior, may not be suitable for everyone, as some individuals may find this approach too mechanical or inauthentic.
  • The advice on handshakes and matching energy and tempo may not be universally applicable, especially in a post-pandemic world where physical contact like handshakes might be less common or desirable.
  • The emphasis on maintaining eye contact and speaking without notes as demonstrations of subject mastery may not consider the diverse ways in which people process information and communicate effectively, including those with different learning and communication styles.
  • The assertion that developing an authentic communication style is crucial for effective interaction does not account for situations where conformity to certain communication norms is necessary for success or acceptance within a specific group or culture.

Actionables

  • You can practice mirroring body language during casual conversations to enhance rapport. Start by subtly adopting the posture, gestures, and facial expressions of friends or family members during a chat. This can make the interaction feel more connected and can be a safe space to experiment with balancing warmth and competence.
  • Create a personal inventory of open-ended questions to use in various social settings. Write down a list of questions tailored for different scenarios like networking events, casual meetups, or professional interviews. Having these questions ready can help you initiate and maintain engaging conversations, demonstrating both social grace and expertise.
  • Engage in daily posture checks using smartphone reminders. Set multiple alarms throughout the day to remind you to assess and adjust your posture. This can be as simple as straightening your back, relaxing your shoulders, or practicing a power pose. Over time, this will help in developing a habit of maintaining an upright and confident posture.

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565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

Nonverbal Communication and Body Language Cues

Understanding nonverbal communication is essential in our daily interactions as it significantly affects perception and interpersonal relationships. Experts Jordan Peterson and Vanessa Van Edwards delve into this topic, highlighting how posture, distance, and eye contact all play vital roles in social dynamics.

Importance Of Understanding Nonverbal Signals in Social Interactions

It's been noted that technical professionals, such as engineers, often lack knowledge of basic social cues like eye contact, which can hinder their social interactions. Peterson emphasizes the necessity of eye contact in engaging an audience and checking their reception of the message.

Posture, Distance, Eye Contact Affect Perception

Edwards highlights the importance of the angles at which people interact, with the brain preferring parallel lines as an indication of engagement. She points out that our posture, including the distance between our ears and shoulders, can project confidence or fear. She also notes how critical eye contact is in creating a connection, which is significant for a speaker's stage presence. Peterson remarks on Edwards' attentiveness to eye contact, influencing the perception of her engagement in discussions.

Key Nonverbal Communication Principles

Several nonverbal communication principles are highlighted as key to successful interactions and the projection of confidence and openness.

Alignment and Facing Convey Engagement and Respect

Alignment, such as mirroring someone’s cues, displays engagement and is seen as a form of nonverbal respect. It involves synchronizing verbal, vocal, and nonverbal cues with another person, similar to how we dress up for interviews to meet others on common ground. Fronting, making sure your body or camera is in line with the person you're engaging with, is a simple cue that can be used to denote comfort and respect.

Avoiding Crossed Arms Signals Comfort and Openness

Edwards stresses that avoiding crossed arms signals comfort and openness. Showing space between the torso and arm, for example, indicates one isn't trying to block or protect the torso, which is a sign of feeling safe rather than discomfort.

Maintaining Appropriate Physical Distance Demonstrates Social Awareness

The concept of proxemics plays an essential role in signaling intimacy, with four basic distances: public, social, personal, and intimate. Close talkers, those who speak less than 18 inches from someone's face, violate social etiquette by entering the intimate zone without consent, often causing discomfort.

Specific Nonverbal Cues to Monitor and Manage

Understanding certain body language cues can help project confidence, enhance communication, and mainta ...

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Nonverbal Communication and Body Language Cues

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Counterarguments

  • While eye contact is generally important, cultural differences can affect how it's perceived; in some cultures, direct eye contact may be seen as disrespectful or aggressive.
  • The idea that technical professionals often lack knowledge of social cues is a stereotype that may not hold true for all individuals in those fields.
  • The concept of mirroring as a form of engagement and respect can sometimes be perceived as mimicry or inauthentic behavior, which can be off-putting.
  • Fronting, or aligning oneself directly with another person, might not always be comfortable or appropriate in all social or cultural contexts.
  • The notion that avoiding crossed arms always signals comfort and openness may not account for personal habits or physical conditions that make certain postures more comfortable for individuals.
  • Proxemics and the interpretation of physical distance can vary greatly across different cultures, and what is considered appropriate in one culture may be seen as too distant or too intrusive in another.
  • The recommendation to maintain 60-70% eye contact does not account for neurodiversity; individuals with autism spectrum disorder, for example, may find sustained eye contact uncomfortable or challenging.
  • The emphasis on upright posture ...

Actionables

  • You can practice nonverbal communication with a friend using silent role-play scenarios to enhance your understanding of social cues. Set up a series of situations where you and a friend communicate only through gestures, facial expressions, and body language. After each scenario, discuss what you thought the other person was trying to convey and provide feedback on how clear the communication was.
  • Improve your public speaking by recording yourself giving a speech and then analyzing your nonverbal cues. Watch the recording to observe your posture, hand gestures, and eye contact. Take notes on areas where your body language could be more confident or engaging, and then practice the speech again, incorporating these improvements.
  • Enhance your social awareness by observing people's interactions in a public setting, li ...

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565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

Warmth Versus Competence in Social Interactions

In social interactions, finding a delicate balance between warmth and competence is pivotal for establishing trust and credibility.

Balancing Warmth and Competence For Trust and Credibility

Vanessa Van Edwards and Jordan Peterson detail how social cues contribute to the perception of warmth and competence.

Warmth Cues Like Smiling, Open Body Language, and Vocal Enthusiasm Create a Positive First Impression

Van Edwards explains that on stage, to build trust quickly, one should aim to make eye contact with audience members. Visible hands during greeting suggest openness and trustworthiness. Expressing genuine happiness, such as verbalizing excitement about being present, can also convey warmth. Eye contact physiologically produces a feeling of warmth and signals genuineness and engagement.

Cues Like Precision, Organization, and Gestures Demonstrate Expertise

In demonstrating competence, Van Edwards emphasizes using visuals during presentations to reduce the audience's cognitive load, showing organization and clarity in communication. Hand gestures can increase understanding and hence the perception of expertise. A person who is highly competent speaks clearly, does not rely on notes or waste movement, and their focused action indicates clarity and precision of thought.

Potential Pitfalls Of Emphasizing one Over the Other

Missteps can occur when there is an imbalance between displaying warmth and competence.

Excessive Warmth May Imply Incompetence or Indecision

Excessive warmth might be mistaken for a lack of competence, and cues such as using appeasement signals in a negotiation could lead others to question one's competence. High warmth can lead to being seen as more accessible and less serious, which might result in frequent interruptions.

Competence Without Warmth Appears Cold

Competence that lacks warmth can come off as cold or intimidating. Van Edwards suggests avoiding nonverbal cues that might indicate coldness, such as touching the face or disengaging from proximity. Charismatic people, to prevent being perceived solely as competent and cold, should also focus on being likable.

Importance Of Understanding the Situation and Audience

Recognizing the context and audience is critical when choosing how to balance warmth a ...

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Warmth Versus Competence in Social Interactions

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Warmth and competence are not the only factors in establishing trust and credibility; other factors like consistency, integrity, and past behavior also play significant roles.
  • Some cultures may value directness and competence over warmth, which could mean that the balance between warmth and competence might need to be adjusted based on cultural expectations.
  • In certain professional or crisis situations, competence may need to be prioritized over warmth to ensure safety and effectiveness.
  • The perception of warmth and competence can be subjective and influenced by biases, potentially leading to misinterpretation of social cues.
  • Overemphasis on nonverbal cues of warmth and competence might lead to neglecting the content of communication, which is also crucial in social interactions.
  • The dichotomy between warmth and competence might oversimplify co ...

Actionables

  • You can practice mirroring body language during casual conversations to enhance warmth. When chatting with friends or colleagues, subtly adopt their posture or gestures. This nonverbal mimicry can foster a sense of connection and trust without appearing forced or insincere.
  • Develop a habit of preparing a 'competence checklist' before formal meetings or presentations. List the key points you need to cover, any data or references to support your arguments, and rehearse a few gestures that emphasize your main points. This preparation ensures you convey competence effectively while still allowing room for warmth through your engagement with the audience.
  • Create a personal feedback loop by asking for speci ...

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565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

Overcoming Social Awkwardness and Anxiety

Jordan Peterson and Vanessa Van Edwards delve into the behaviors associated with social anxiety and offer strategies for developing social skills and fostering a confident, positive mindset.

Recognizing Common Patterns of Awkward Behavior

Cues Like Hunched Posture, Fidgeting, and Up-speak Signal Unsurety

Van Edwards discusses a "trifecta of awkwardness" in first impressions, including a hunched posture or "turtling," which shortens vocal power and can make someone sound nervous. Both Van Edwards and Peterson discuss up-speak (ending sentences with an upward inflection as if asking a question), which can communicate submissiveness or nervousness and signal to others to scrutinize rather than listen.

Behaviors From Lack of Social Awareness or Practice

Van Edwards recognized in her own past behavior signs of trying too hard to be liked, such as excessive nodding and smiling, which can stem from a lack of social awareness. Peterson and Van Edwards both speak to patterns of immaturity in social situations, like immature strategies that signal submissiveness, including a prey posture and excessive smiling.

Strategies For Developing Social Skills

Mastering Nonverbal Communication Skills

Van Edwards underscores the importance of improving nonverbal communication, such as body posture and vocal inflections. She also explains how she dialed back excessive nodding and gesturing to improve her nonverbal cues. Peterson and Van Edwards agree that being conscious of these cues is crucial for developing effective social skills.

Building a Repertoire of Conversation Starters and Behaviors

Vanessa Van Edwards took an educational approach to overcoming her social awkwardness by studying nonverbal behavior and memorizing flashcards with conversation starters to help alleviate anxiety about initiating conversations.

Cultivating a Mindset of Confid ...

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Overcoming Social Awkwardness and Anxiety

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While nonverbal cues like hunched posture and up-speak can signal unsurety, they can also be cultural mannerisms or habits that don't necessarily reflect a person's confidence level.
  • Excessive nodding and smiling might be misinterpreted as a lack of social awareness, but in some cultures or contexts, these behaviors are polite and expected.
  • Nonverbal communication skills are important, but overemphasis on controlling nonverbal cues can lead to inauthentic interactions or increased anxiety.
  • Memorized conversation starters can be helpful, but they might also come off as rehearsed or impersonal, which could hinder genuine connection.
  • Viewing social interactions as opportunities is positive, but it's also important to acknowledge and validate the feelings of those who experien ...

Actionables

  • You can practice mirroring techniques with a friend to enhance your nonverbal communication. Set up a casual role-play scenario where you both take turns leading a conversation. Pay close attention to each other's body language, and try to subtly mimic the other's posture, gestures, and facial expressions. This exercise can help you become more attuned to nonverbal cues and improve your own body language in social interactions.
  • Start a daily gratitude journal focusing on social interactions to shift your mindset. Each day, write down three social encounters you had, what went well in them, and how luck or the contributions of others played a role. This practice encourages you to see social interactions as positive experiences and reduces self-doubt by acknowledging external factors that contribute to successful encounters.
  • Create a "convers ...

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565. Unlocking the Hidden Power Of Body Language | Vanessa Van Edwards

Strategies For Improving Charismatic Communication

Vanessa Van Edwards and Jordan Peterson provide insights into how one can improve charismatic communication by mastering first impressions, effectively structuring conversations, and developing a personal communication style.

Mastering the Mechanics of First Impressions

It's critical to manage the initial interactions with others, as they set the tone for ongoing relationships.

Greeting With a Firm Handshake or Open-Palm Gesture

According to Peterson, a handshake should be firm, like gripping a 10-pound object, and match the grip of the person you’re shaking hands with. Edwards suggests offering the handshake with a vertical palm, thumb toward the sky to avoid submissive or dominance gestures. Use a firm grip that is not too tight—like squeezing a peach—and if it’s a first meeting, three pumps will suffice; one may be enough for subsequent engagements. For those comfortable with hugging, approach with two open palms but be prepared to pivot to a handshake if the other person shows discomfort. She emphasizes being assertive with your greeting to make a clear first impression, even if someone else may wish to match you.

Matching Energy and Tempo For Alignment

Van Edwards talks about mirroring, particularly during salary negotiations; she describes how matching the interviewer’s energy can positively affect the outcome. Peterson details how aligning physiological tendencies, like matching the tempo of someone else's speech or handshake, gives off a sense of connection and mutual attentiveness.

Effectively Structuring Conversations

Skillfully crafted dialogues can lead to more engaging and memorable interactions.

Using Open-Ended Questions to Draw the Person Out

Edwards advocates asking open-ended questions that break away from the typical conversation script. These questions should elicit positive responses and allow you to exhibit your warmth and competence when reciprocated.

Balancing Verbal and Nonverbal Cues For Clarity

Combining verbal articulation with nonverbal expressions can greatly enhance communication clarity. Edwards recommends using purposeful gestures and leaning in to convey engagement and competence. Peterson adds that making constant eye contact and not relying on notes when speaking can show command of the subject matter.

Developing a Personal Communication Style

Authenticity is at the core of a personal communication style that resonates with others.

Emphasizing Authentic and Comfortable Nonverbal Beha ...

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Strategies For Improving Charismatic Communication

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While managing initial interactions is important, it can also be argued that relationships are dynamic and can evolve over time, regardless of first impressions.
  • A firm handshake is generally seen as positive, but cultural differences and personal preferences can make alternative greetings more appropriate in some contexts.
  • Matching energy and tempo can be effective, but over-mirroring may come across as inauthentic or manipulative to some individuals.
  • Open-ended questions are valuable, but there are situations where direct and closed questions are more efficient and appropriate.
  • Balancing verbal and nonverbal cues is crucial, but overemphasis on nonverbal cues can sometimes lead to misinterpretation, especially across different cultures.
  • Authentic nonverbal behaviors are important, but what is considered authentic can vary greatly between individuals and ...

Actionables

  • Create a personalized greeting ritual by combining a unique verbal greeting with a nonverbal gesture, like a nod or a smile, to make a memorable first impression that goes beyond the typical handshake.
    • This approach helps you stand out and can be tailored to different contexts, such as a casual "Hey there!" with a wave in informal settings or a respectful "Good to see you" with a slight bow in more formal situations.
  • Develop a "conversation menu" of diverse open-ended questions categorized by context, such as work, social, or family events, to ensure you can engage anyone in meaningful dialogue.
    • For example, at a networking event, you might ask, "What's the most exciting project you're working on right now?" while at a family gathering, you could opt for, "What's a favorite memory that has shaped who you are today?"
  • Practice mirroring exercises with a friend where you ta ...

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