544. When the Right Goes Too Far | Dr. James Lindsay

James Lindsay brings up a controversial comparison, drawing parallels between the ideological tendencies of a segment within the political right, referred to as the "woke right," and those traditionally ascribed to the political left's radical arm, the "woke left."

"Woke Right" Mirrors "Woke Left" In Behaviors and Beliefs

Lindsay suggests that what's emerging as the "woke right" consists of individuals who, while identifying as conservatives or right-wing, exhibit behaviors reminiscent of those associated with the "woke left."

"Woke Right" Shows Cult-Like Adherence, Self-Victimization, and Aggressive Power Tactics

Lindsay, with support from discussions with Jordan Peterson, observes that the "woke right" engages in a "cult of transgression" akin to the "woke left." This involves behaviors that challenge societal norms, such as engaging in racism not in direct opposition to the "woke left's" anti-racism stance but rather to counter cultural expectations more broadly. Lindsay expresses concern about young men being lured into Nazism, which he sees as a response to the same vulnerability complex that previously targeted young women.

Both Lindsay and Peterson warn against motivations stemming from resentment, suggesting that such motivations are indicative of deeper, more concerning issues within an individual's psyche.

Parallels Exist Between "Woke Left" and "Woke Right" Thought Processes and Tactics

Lindsay argues that both the "woke right" and the "woke left" engage in "ideological flattening" or "dialectical flattening," where they paint everyone not on their side with the same broad oppositional brush. They target moderates by attributing to them the extremes of the opposite side, using terms like "DARVO" (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender) to frame themselves as victims when, in fact, they are the aggressors.

Dualistic Worldview: Society as "Oppressors" Vs. "Oppressed"

...

James Lindsay and Jordan Peterson engage in a thought-provoking discussion about the psychological underpinnings of "woke" ideology, drawing parallels between this behavior and certain personality disorders.

"Woke" Linked To Cluster B Personality Disorders: Narcissism, Machiavellianism, Psychopathy

James Lindsay postulates that "woke" psychology has connections to Cluster B personality disorders, suggesting that traits commonly found in narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy manifest in "woke" behaviors. He raises the possibility that the "woke" movement might be connected to psychological disorders, where distorted worldviews are created by disordered individuals who draw others into their pathocratic ideologies.

Lindsay and Peterson discuss the concept of the dark tetrad which includes narcissism, Machiavellianism, psychopathy, and the addition of sadism. Peterson describes traits of the dark tetrad such as using language solely for manipulation and viewing interactions as status games rather than communication. These types are portrayed as taking pleasure in the suffering of others, especially when feeling rejected or unsuccessful.

Traits Manifest in Behaviors Like Lack of Empathy, Need For Validation, and Use of Deception and Aggression

Although not directly addressed in the provided content, the discussions of Lindsay and Peterson suggest that traits such as lack of empathy, need for validation, and use of deception and aggression might be characteristics of "woke" behavior on both the political left and right. Lindsay mentions that "woke" individuals may redefine words like "racism" to manipulate others, which could demonstrate a lack of empathy and a propensity for deception.

"Woke" Aims to Overturn Perceived Unjust Social Order

How "Woke" Individuals Adopt Revolutionary Ideologies and Challenge Societal Norms

Lindsay connects "woke" behaviors to revol ...

Lindsay and Peterson address how social media platforms, through offering anonymity and algorithmic amplification, facilitate the proliferation of destructive and pathological online behaviors.

Social Media Enables Cluster B Traits' Influence

Social aggression and manipulation, which are characteristic of cluster B personality traits, can be exacerbated by the capabilities of social media. Individuals can easily hide behind multiple identities, switch accounts, and create artificial online environments without repercussions. Peterson underscores the problem by noting that during discussions about the "woke right," 30 percent of the comments might come from bots. This indicates the tactical deployment of bot networks to manipulate messaging within social spaces.

Individuals Can Switch Identities, Create Bot Networks, and Engage In Harassment Campaigns Without Facing Consequences

Further, the environment of social media allows for individuals to partake in "lulls culture online," engaging in behaviors, anonymously, for amusement, often without facing any real-world consequences. Lindsay points to swarm behavior, where a derisive reply rapidly accumulates an implausible number of likes, hinting at the manipulation of social interactions via bot networks. This anonymous maneuvering can inflict psychological torment through attacks like being "ratioed," where a disproportionate response can give the impression of mass ridicule.

James Lindsay touches upon the presence of foreign bot networks from countries like Russia, Iran, Qatar, China, and Pakistan. These networks employ social media influence campaigns, designed to tamper with public perception without directly suffering the outcomes.

Algorithm Design and Outrage Monetization Amplify "Woke" Pathologies

The conversation between Lindsay and Peterson suggests that anonymity, algorithmic amplification, and financial incentives have created a conducive environment for pathological behaviors to thrive. Social media platforms, described as "e ...

In a discussion featuring Jordan Peterson and James Lindsay, the two scholars delve into the contentious subject of how certain ideologies, though not directly named as "woke" in this segment of their conversation, might be influencing academia, media, and government, leading to a legitimacy crisis in these institutions.

"Woke" Ideology Has Corrupted Academia, Media, and Government Institutions

Institutions Compromised by Self-Interested Agendas

Peterson and Lindsay discuss how language and concepts within institutions like universities might be manipulated by ideologies for specific agendas. The conversation suggests that these ideologies could represent self-interested groups whose aim is to propagate a particular worldview or maintain power within the institutions.

Peterson metaphorically compares universities to "whale carcasses invaded by parasites," indicating a belief that these institutions have been undermined by individuals or groups prioritizing their own agendas over the foundational purposes of the institutions.

Capture of Institutions Leads To Legitimacy Crisis

Trust Erosion in Institutions Fuels Rise of Ideological Information Sources

Jordan Peterson and James Lindsay debate the diminishing reliability and trust in institutions, primarily focusing on the academic sphere. Peterson sees a conflict arising between President Trump and institutions like Harvard University, even suggesting that Trump might be on the right side of that particular conflict.

For instance, the president of Harvard argued against the withholding of research funds as a punitive measure. Yet Peterson challenges the credibility of researchers influenced by DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) agendas, ...

The rise of digital identification and 'social credit' systems has sparked intense discussions on their implications for individual freedoms and privacy.

Digital ID and "Social Credit" Systems Raise Concerns About Authoritarian Control

Jordan Peterson and James Lindsay express concerns that systems designed to track citizens' activities could potentially lead to authoritarian systems similar to those seen in China.

Systems Could Track Citizens' Activities, Rewarding or Punishing Based On State Ideology Adherence

Peterson discusses the danger of the internet in allowing individuals to escape the reputational consequences of their behavior, and expresses concern that electronic ID verification could pave the way to Chinese-style totalitarianism. Lindsay refers to China's social credit system as akin to a Pavlovian training mechanism, engineered to coerce citizens into adopting beliefs endorsed by the state.

Peterson brings up the example of a credit card in Australia that keeps track of the user's carbon footprint. He warns that while it currently permits free spending, the existing infrastructure could eventually lead to impositions on personal behavior.

Parallels Between "Social Credit" Systems and "Woke" Ideology Exploit Operant Conditioning and Human Vulnerabilities

Peterson airs concerns over privacy erosion with digital ID systems, suggesting tha ...