543. “You’re Not Gaining Weight Because You’re Lazy” | Dr. Mehmet Oz
In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Peterson and Dr. Mehmet Oz examine how the rise of new media platforms has disrupted traditional media institutions and changed public discourse. Their discussion explores institutional corruption, from scientific research and academic establishments to legacy media, with both speakers sharing personal experiences of facing pushback when challenging established narratives.
The conversation delves into America's current healthcare challenges, including the system's focus on treatment over prevention and the impact of chronic diseases on healthcare spending. Peterson and Oz discuss how the COVID-19 pandemic revealed systemic issues in healthcare institutions and explore emerging movements that question traditional medical and political structures, including the growing public demand for institutional transparency.
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1-Page Summary
Transformation of Media From Legacy to New Media
In a discussion between Jordan Peterson and Mehmet Oz, Peterson compares the impact of YouTube and similar platforms to the Gutenberg printing press, noting how free, permanent video content has disrupted traditional media. Oz highlights this transformation by pointing out that even lengthy interviews can now reach millions of listeners, though Peterson warns that this hyper-connectivity might allow oversimplified ideas to spread faster than nuanced content.
The conversation turns to legacy media's corruption, with Oz noting a significant shift around 2012 in how traditional media covered controversial topics. He describes facing backlash when raising concerns about arsenic in apple juice, which later proved valid. Both speakers express concern about legacy media's dependence on pharmaceutical advertising revenue, which potentially compromises objective health reporting.
Corruption in Scientific, Medical, and Academic Establishments
Peterson shares his personal experience of facing significant professional consequences after speaking out against the Canadian government in 2016. Oz points to systematic problems in scientific research, citing the example of Ancel Keys' flawed seven-country study that became dietary dogma despite contrary evidence.
Both speakers describe widespread corruption in academic and scientific institutions. Oz suggests that about half of current scientific publications may be suspect, while Peterson notes a concerning shift in psychology from relative independence to ideological corruption. They discuss how institutions frequently suppress dissent, even from respected experts, as evidenced by Oz's team threatening to resign over inviting Peterson to his show.
America's Public Health Crisis and Solutions
Oz emphasizes that chronic diseases consume 90% of America's healthcare budget, criticizing the healthcare system's focus on treatment over prevention. He describes his work with HealthCorps, an educational initiative helping young people make better health choices.
The COVID-19 pandemic exposed deeper systemic issues, with Peterson noting a substantial loss of public trust in health institutions. Oz expresses frustration about the reluctance to debate school closures openly during the pandemic, despite data suggesting they should remain open.
New Political Movements Challenging Status Quo
Oz and Peterson discuss emerging movements like "Make America Healthy Again" that challenge established medical and political systems. Oz links these movements to growing public frustration with institutional corruption and lack of transparency. He points to figures like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who, despite controversy, represent a broader pattern of questioning traditional healthcare narratives and established political structures.
1-Page Summary
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Counterarguments
- While YouTube and similar platforms have indeed disrupted traditional media, it's important to recognize that legacy media still plays a significant role in journalism and information dissemination. Many people continue to rely on traditional news outlets for in-depth reporting and analysis.
- The idea that hyper-connectivity leads to the spread of oversimplified ideas is a concern, but it's also true that the internet allows for the dissemination of complex and nuanced content. The challenge lies in how users engage with and curate their information sources.
- The claim that legacy media is corrupt could be seen as an overgeneralization. While there are instances of bias and problematic practices, many journalists and media outlets strive for integrity and accountability in their reporting.
- The reliance on pharmaceutical advertising revenue is a concern for legacy media, but it's also true that many media outlets have strict policies separating their editorial content from advertising influence.
- Speaking out against authorities can have professional consequences, but it can also lead to positive change and reform. Whistleblowers and dissenters have historically played crucial roles in improving systems and practices.
- While Ancel Keys' seven-country study has been criticized, it's also important to acknowledge that scientific understanding evolves over time, and what may have been accepted in the past can be challenged by new evidence and methodologies.
- The claim that about half of current scientific publications may be questionable is a strong statement that may not accurately reflect the state of scientific research. Peer review and replication studies are mechanisms that help ensure the reliability of scientific findings.
- The assertion of widespread corruption in academic and scientific institutions could overshadow the rigorous and ethical work conducted by many researchers and academics who contribute positively to their fields.
- The focus on treatment over prevention in healthcare is a valid concern, but it's also important to recognize the complexities of healthcare systems and the efforts made to incorporate preventive measures within them.
- The reluctance to openly debate school closures during the pandemic was a contentious issue, but it's also true that public health decisions are often made with the best available evidence at the time, which can be limited during a crisis.
- Movements challenging the status quo can be beneficial, but it's also important to critically evaluate the evidence and arguments they present. Not all challenges to established systems are based on sound reasoning or evidence.
- Figures like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. may raise important questions, but their views should be examined critically, as with any public figure, to ensure that they are based on credible evidence and not contributing to misinformation.
Actionables
- You can diversify your information sources to develop a more nuanced understanding of complex issues. Instead of relying solely on traditional or mainstream media, seek out independent journalists, international news outlets, and subject matter experts who share their insights on platforms like Medium, Substack, or through their own newsletters. This approach helps you to encounter a variety of perspectives and can protect against the oversimplification of ideas.
- Start a personal "health first" initiative to shift your focus from treatment to prevention. Create a simple, daily checklist that includes activities like a 30-minute walk, preparing a home-cooked meal with fresh ingredients, and practicing mindfulness or meditation. By prioritizing these preventive measures, you can take proactive steps towards maintaining your health and potentially reduce the need for medical interventions.
- Engage in constructive dialogue with your community about health and media literacy. Organize informal discussion groups with friends or family where you can talk about the importance of critical thinking when consuming media, the role of advertising in shaping content, and the significance of preventive healthcare. These conversations can be held virtually or in person and don't require any special skills, just a willingness to listen and share thoughts respectfully.
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Transformation of Media From Legacy to New Media
Jordan Peterson and Mehmet Oz engage in a discussion that underlines the transformation of media as we shift from legacy to online platforms, changing the landscape of content consumption and production.
Shift From Legacy To Youtube Transforms Landscape
Online Platforms Offering Free, Permanent Video Disrupt Traditional Media and Pressure Legacy Networks
Jordan Peterson examines how the advent of YouTube and similar platforms offering free, permanent videos has vastly changed the traditional media landscape. The drop to nearly zero production and dissemination costs, compared to television, has posed a significant challenge for legacy media operations. He draws an analogy to the Gutenberg printing press, suggesting that new media platforms have had an analogous impact on communication by making video on demand both free and permanent.
Hyper-Connectivity Through New Media Speeds Sensational Ideas, Outpacing Nuanced Content
Mehmet Oz points to the massive reach and impact of new media, noting that even an interview with a duration of two hours and 42 minutes could garner over 5 million listens. This showcases the public's appetite for in-depth content, which new media platforms can satisfy. Meanwhile, Peterson warns of the dangers posed by hyper-connectivity, which may allow oversimplified and potentially harmful ideas to spread more rapidly than more nuanced and well-considered content.
Legacy Media Increasingly Corrupted and Ideologically Captured
Mehmet Oz Noted a 2012 Shift in Legacy Media's Reluctance to Cover Status Quo Challenges
Mehmet Oz observed a shift around 2012 in how legacy media covered stories that could challenge the status quo, specifically in public health issues. For instance, he faced a strong backlash from the media when he tried to raise awareness about arsenic in appl ...
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Transformation of Media From Legacy to New Media
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Clarifications
- The analogy between new media platforms like YouTube and the Gutenberg printing press highlights how both innovations revolutionized communication by making content more accessible and widespread. The Gutenberg press enabled the mass production of books, democratizing knowledge and challenging the dominance of handwritten manuscripts. Similarly, new media platforms democratize video content creation and distribution, disrupting traditional media models and empowering individuals to share their ideas globally. This comparison underscores the transformative impact of technological advancements on information dissemination throughout history.
- Around 2012, there was a noted shift in how legacy media outlets covered stories that could challenge the existing norms or practices, particularly in areas like public health. This shift was observed as a reluctance to address issues that could potentially disrupt the status quo or go against established narratives. Mehmet Oz's experience with trying to raise awareness about arsenic in apple juice and facing backlash from the media is an example of this shift in coverage dynamics during that time. The change in media behavior suggested a possible trend towards ...
Counterarguments
- While online platforms offer free content, they also rely on algorithms that can create echo chambers and misinformation, which is a different kind of challenge not necessarily present in legacy media.
- The impact of new media platforms is significant, but comparing it to the Gutenberg printing press might be an overstatement, as the printing press revolutionized literacy and information dissemination in a way that is foundational to modern society.
- Hyper-connectivity does not inherently favor sensational ideas; it also allows for the rapid spread of educational content and can facilitate nuanced discussions among interested communities.
- Legacy media is not universally corrupted or ideologically captured; many legacy outlets maintain high journalistic standards and have implemented strict editorial guidelines to ensure unbiased reporting.
- The shift in legacy media's coverage of certain issues may not solely be due to reluctance ...
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Corruption in Scientific, Medical, and Academic Establishments
Mehmet Oz and Jordan Peterson discuss the evolving problems of corruption within media, extending into the scientific and academic fronts.
Science and Academia Influenced by Donors, Funding, and Politics
Peterson recounts his personal struggle after speaking out against the Canadian government in 2016. Losing two of his three income sources, experiencing a decade-long battle with his regulatory agency, and facing significant financial and emotional stress, he paints a picture of the consequences of challenging authority.
Oz suggests that the intellectual elite often avoid challenging assumptions that lead to bad science, resulting in the fester of bad ideas within industries. He cites Ancel Keys' seven-country study promoting a low-fat diet—conducted during Lent and skewed as a result—as an example. This study became dogma with political backing, leading to contrary evidence like the Minnesota Heart Study being suppressed.
Peterson reflects on a shift in the field of psychology, which has gone from relatively free of careerism and corruption to now being ideologically corrupt. He criticizes the current research environment where careerism prevails, requiring ideological purity for grants, and emphasizes the rise in administrative power over faculty, which may indicate increased corruption.
Oz also criticizes the academic community for insincere concern over disadvantaged patients, alluding to hypocrisy and careerism over truth. He points out that about half of the scientific publications today may be suspect, suggesting that tenure, pride, and ego have surpassed the quest for truth.
Institutions and Bodies Have Suppressed Dissent and Alternatives, Even From Respected Experts
Oz shares an episode from his show where his team threatened to resign over an invitation to Peterson, indicating suppression and unwillingness to entertain alternative viewpoints, even from reputable experts. He also shares his struggles to get government data on arsenic levels in apple juice and describes the personal attacks faced amid the GMO labeling debate instead of direct arguments over the issues.
Peterson delves into research ethics boards, describing them as corrupt and counterproductive. He mentions mainstream scientific publications losing reliability and trustworthiness due to ideological corruption.
The discussion touches on the suppression surrou ...
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Corruption in Scientific, Medical, and Academic Establishments
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Ancel Keys' seven-country study was a landmark research project in the 1950s that aimed to investigate the relationship between diet and heart disease. It suggested a link between high saturated fat intake and heart disease, promoting the adoption of low-fat diets. However, criticisms later emerged regarding the study's methodology and the selective data used, leading to debates about the validity of its conclusions. The study's influence on dietary guidelines and public health policies has been significant, shaping nutritional recommendations for decades.
- The GMO labeling debate revolves around whether genetically modified organisms (GMOs) in food products should be required to be labeled as such. Proponents argue for transparency and the right to know what is in their food, while opponents raise concerns about the potential impact on consumer perceptions and the food industry. This debate has sparked discussions about consumer rights, food safety, and the role of biotechnology in agriculture. The issue has led to differing opinions among the public, policymakers, and industry stakeholders.
- Research ethics boards, also known as Institutional Review Boards (IRBs), are committees responsible for reviewing and approving research studies involving human subjects to ensure ethical standards are met. They assess the potential risks and benefits of research protocols, safeguarding the rights and welfare of participants. These boards play a crucial role in upholding ethical principles in research and ensuring compliance with regulations and guidelines. Researchers must obtain approval from these boards before initiating studies involving human subjects to protect participants and maintain research integrity.
- [restricted term] was a drug that gained attention as a potential treatment for COVID-19 early in the pandemic. However, its effectiveness and safety in treating the virus became a subject of controversy and debate among the scientific and medical communities. Some studies suggested benefits, while others raised concerns about ...
Counterarguments
- The scientific method inherently includes mechanisms such as peer review and replication to correct errors and biases over time, suggesting that while individual studies may be flawed, the process is self-correcting.
- The prevalence of bad science may be overstated; many studies are conducted with integrity and contribute valuable knowledge, even if some are flawed or biased.
- The influence of donors and politics on research can be mitigated by policies that enforce transparency and conflict-of-interest disclosures.
- The claim that about half of scientific publications may be suspect could be an exaggeration, as many publications undergo rigorous peer review and editorial processes.
- The suppression of dissenting viewpoints is not universally endorsed or practiced in academia, and many institutions actively encourage debate and critical thinking.
- Research ethics boards are designed to protect participants and ensure the integrity of research, and while there may be bureaucratic challenges, their role is crucial for ethical oversight.
- The scientific community has shown a capacity to engage with alternative treatments and viewpoints, as evidenced by the numerous studies conducted on COVID-19 treatments, including [restricted term].
- The assertion that science requires a ...
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America's Public Health Crisis and Solutions
The discussion covers America's public health issues, highlighting the pervasive chronic disease epidemic, the COVID-19 pandemic exposing flaws in the health system, and the need for individuals to take charge of their own health.
Chronic Disease Epidemic in America Strains Healthcare System
Mehmet Oz underscores the seriousness of America's chronic disease epidemic, emphasizing that such diseases consume 90% of the nation's healthcare budget.
Preventative Public Health Overlooked For Profitable Treatment Models, NIH Minimally Funds Prevention Research
Oz comments on the root cause of common chronic diseases, metabolic syndrome, which affects the body's ability to manage calories resulting in fat storage and a cycle of health problems. Industry influence has shifted towards treatment models rather than preventative measures. He criticizes this focus on cure over prevention, lamenting that dramatic surgeries make for popular television but overshadow the importance of preventive strategies. Oz implies that the federal government has only minimally supported the prevention side of healthcare.
The "Make America Healthy Again" Movement Empowers Individuals to Take Charge of Their Health and Wellbeing
Oz describes his involvement with HealthCorps, an educational initiative that has helped reduce soft drink consumption among youth. This program can instill self-worth and mental resilience, leading to a stronger belief in their ability to contribute to society. He advocates for delivering health messages in a way young people find appealing, framing the rejection of harmful substances as a form of counterculture.
Covid-19 Pandemic Exposed Flaws, Eroding Trust in Health and Science
The COVID-19 crisis has brought to the forefront the existing issues in America's healthcare structure.
School Closure Controversies Reflect Reluctance For Evidence-Based Public Health Debate
Peterson identifies the pandemic as the catalyst for a substantial loss of faith in public health. Oz voices frustration about the hesitation to debate openly on keeping schools open during the pandemic, despite data suggesting they should not be closed.
"Make America Healthy Again" Movement: Alternative Health Perspectives
Oz ...
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America's Public Health Crisis and Solutions
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Counterarguments
- While chronic diseases do consume a significant portion of healthcare spending, it's important to recognize that acute care, mental health, and other areas also require substantial investment and attention.
- Metabolic syndrome is a complex condition, and while it does affect the body's ability to manage calories, genetics, environment, and socioeconomic factors also play critical roles in its development.
- The focus on treatment models in the healthcare industry is driven by immediate patient needs and the development of new medical technologies, which can sometimes offer more immediate and tangible outcomes than preventative measures.
- The federal government does fund prevention research, though the balance between prevention and treatment funding can be debated. Programs like the CDC's National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion work to address prevention.
- Empowering youth is important, but reducing soft drink consumption is just one aspect of a comprehensive approach to improving public health. Other factors such as education, access to healthy foods, and physical activity are also critical.
- The COVID-19 pandemic did expose flaws in the healthcare system, but it also led to unprecedented scientific collaboration and rapid vaccine development, demonstrating the system's capacity for innovation and response.
- The loss of faith in public health during the pandemic may be more nuanced, with some public health measures receiving broad support, while others were more controversial and debated.
- The reluctance to openly debate certain public health decisions during the pandemic may have been due in part to the urgency of the situation and the need for swift action based on the best available evidence at the time.
- The "Make America Healthy Again" movement's call for alternative health perspectives should be balanced with the need for evidence-based practices and the potential risks of promoting unpro ...
Actionables
- You can start a personal health journal to track your dietary habits, exercise, and how you feel after certain activities or meals, which can help you identify patterns related to metabolic syndrome.
- Keeping a detailed record over time allows you to see the impact of your lifestyle choices on your health. For example, you might notice that reducing sugar intake improves your energy levels, or that certain exercises alleviate stress.
- Create a "health accountability group" with friends or family where you share goals, successes, and challenges in making healthier choices.
- This group could meet weekly to discuss progress, share healthy recipes, or even organize group exercises. It's a way to encourage preventive health measures within your community. For instance, if someone discovers a new healthy snack, they can share it with the group, or you can collectively decide to cut down on soft drink consumption for a month and observe the effects.
- Educate yourself on the basics of evidence-based health practices by reading articles from reputable so ...
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New Political Movements Challenging Status Quo
Mehmet Oz and others discuss challenging established politics and medicine, revealing public frustration with institutional corruption and transparency issues, and aligning with new political movements like "Make America Healthy Again."
Figures Like Oz and Kennedy Jr. Challenge Established Politics and Medicine
New Political Movements Leverage Public Frustration With Institutional Corruption and Transparency Issues
Mehmet Oz, linking to figures like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., focuses on issues like institutional corruption, lack of transparency, and the suppression of alternative viewpoints. Oz experienced backlash for his viewpoints, particularly on GMO labeling and treatment options during the COVID-19 pandemic, and his concerns for others without similar resources echo a broader pattern of retaliation that prevents speaking out.
Oz discusses the crisis in America, exacerbated by COVID, which he sees as an opportunity and a risk. He has engaged in controversies and challenges within the scientific, medical, and academic communities. On his show, Oz discussed vaccines with Bobby Kennedy, a conversation deemed controversial. Despite warnings of Kennedy being "anti-vax," Oz notes that Kennedy's book states he is not against vaccinations.
Similarly, Jordan Peterson points to the difficulty people face in accepting views from figures like RFK Jr., as it requires a significant reevaluation of beliefs. Peterson's remarks highlight public skepticism toward scientific and medical establishments, which are perceived to be driven by a political agenda or vested interests.
Movements Like "Make America Healthy Again" Show Public Desire for New Societal Solutions
Oz is part of the "Make America Healthy Again" movement, suggesting a public desire for societal solutions that challenge traditional medicine and empower individuals. He argues for using medications only as crutches and stresses personal agency in health. He’s also focused on longevity and wellness through technologies and customized AI recommendations, moving away from established healthcare methodologies.
The developers of such movements are seen as paragons for change; for instance, Oz suggests that the questioning of expert advice in medical decisions heavily influenced the election in Pennsylvania. This represents a larger "tsunami" of change backed by people whose anger at perceived expert betrayal motivates them to vo ...
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New Political Movements Challenging Status Quo
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Counterarguments
- The challenges to established politics and medicine by figures like Mehmet Oz and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. may not always be based on peer-reviewed science or consensus within the scientific community, which could potentially lead to the spread of misinformation.
- Leveraging public frustration with institutional corruption and lack of transparency can be constructive, but it is important to ensure that the proposed alternatives are credible and evidence-based.
- Movements like "Make America Healthy Again" may oversimplify complex medical issues and underestimate the value of traditional medicine, which is supported by extensive research and clinical trials.
- Skepticism towards scientific and medical establishments should be balanced with an understanding of the rigorous processes involved in scientific discovery and the benefits of evidence-based medicine.
- Emphasizing personal agency in health is important, but it should not overshadow the role of societal factors, such as access to healthcare, environmental influences, and socioeconomic status, which also significantly impact health outcomes.
- While questioning expert advice can be a part of healthy skepticism, it is crucial to differentiate between well-founded critique and baseless doubt, as the latter can undermine public health efforts and trust in expertise.
- Movements for transparency and accountability are necessary, but they should not dismiss the expertise and dedication of the majority of medical professionals and researchers who work within established systems.
- Advocating for individual choice in h ...
Actionables
- You can start a personal health journal to track the relationship between your lifestyle choices and health outcomes. By documenting your daily habits, such as diet, exercise, sleep patterns, and how you feel physically and mentally, you'll create a personal dataset that can help you understand the impact of your choices on your health. For example, if you notice that you feel more energetic on days when you eat certain foods or get a specific amount of sleep, you can adjust your habits to optimize your well-being.
- Engage in community discussions online to share and learn about alternative health practices. Find forums, social media groups, or local online communities where members discuss non-traditional health approaches and share experiences. This can help you learn from others' insights and contribute your own observations, fostering a collaborative environment for health empowerment. For instance, if you've found success with a particular meditation technique or dietary supplement, sharing it could help others who are looking for new methods to enhance their health.
- Experiment with hea ...
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