529. Public Schools and the Battle For Children | Corey DeAngelis
In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Peterson and guest Corey DeAngelis examine public schools' shortcomings. They argue that schools spend exorbitantly yet deliver poor academic results, often promoting ideological agendas like gender theory rather than core subjects.
The discussion advocates for school choice through programs like education vouchers. DeAngelis contends that school choice empowers parents over government, drives better outcomes through competition, and elevates disadvantaged students' opportunities. However, the guests note teachers' unions often oppose school choice initiatives.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Mar 13, 2025 episode of the The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast
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1-Page Summary
Public School Problems and Reform Needs
Jordan Peterson and Corey DeAngelis discuss the failures of the public school system and the need for reform.
Public Schools: Costly Yet Underperforming
According to Peterson, public schools are "extraordinarily expensive" yet do a "dismal job" teaching basic literacy, with faculties of education promoting ineffective theoretical approaches. DeAngelis cites examples like Chicago's 0% math proficiency rate despite high spending.
Schools Promote Harmful Ideologies
DeAngelis criticizes schools for teaching gender ideology and critical race theory instead of focusing on academics. Peterson asserts that education faculties, which control teacher certification, have a radical left-wing bias and lower standards.
School Choice Benefits
Empowers Parents Over Government
DeAngelis advocates for parents to choose their children's education path, with "funding students not systems." Peterson agrees parents should protect children from ideologies.
Drives School Quality Through Competition
DeAngelis highlights how school choice fosters competition, with studies showing positive effects on public schools. Programs like Florida's vouchers demonstrate the potential to create opportunities, especially for disadvantaged students.
Boosts Student Outcomes
According to Peterson and DeAngelis, school choice is tied to benefits like higher graduation rates, reduced crime and teen pregnancy. DeAngelis cites how competition forces public schools to prioritize academics efficiently.
Unions Oppose School Choice
DeAngelis notes teachers' union donations heavily favor Democrats due to aligned interests. He accuses unions of lobbying against school choice and defying curriculum laws. Peterson emphasizes the GOP taking on school choice to counter left-wing education control.
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Counterarguments
- Public schools may be underperforming in some areas, but they also provide essential social services and equal opportunities for all students, regardless of their background.
- Theoretical approaches in education can be valuable, promoting critical thinking and adaptability in a rapidly changing world.
- The 0% math proficiency rate in Chicago could be due to a variety of factors, including socioeconomic challenges, and may not accurately reflect the efforts or potential improvements made by the schools.
- Gender ideology and critical race theory can be part of a comprehensive education that prepares students to understand and navigate a diverse society.
- Education faculties may have diverse political views, and what is perceived as a radical left-wing bias could be a commitment to social justice and equity in education.
- School choice could exacerbate inequalities by allowing students from more privileged backgrounds to cluster in certain schools, potentially leaving underfunded public schools with fewer resources.
- Funding students instead of systems might not address systemic issues within education and could lead to a lack of accountability for the quality of education provided by private institutions.
- Competition in education may not always lead to improved quality, as schools might focus on marketing and superficial metrics rather than substantive educational outcomes.
- The positive effects of school choice on public schools are debated, and some studies suggest that vouchers and charter schools do not consistently outperform traditional public schools.
- The link between school choice and benefits like higher graduation rates and reduced crime and teen pregnancy is complex and may involve other contributing factors.
- Teachers' unions support policies and candidates that they believe will best serve the interests of educators and students, which may not necessarily align with school choice initiatives.
- Unions may oppose certain school choice measures out of concern for the impact on public education funding, teacher job security, and educational equity.
- The GOP's support for school choice may be driven by a variety of motives, including ideological beliefs about government and market dynamics, rather than solely a response to left-wing education control.
Actionables
- You can research and support local candidates or initiatives that advocate for school choice to have a direct impact on education policies in your area. By understanding the positions of local school board members, city councilors, or state legislators on school choice, you can vote for those who align with your views on education reform. For example, before elections, review candidates' platforms, attend town hall meetings, or participate in online forums to ask questions about their stance on school choice and education funding.
- Start a book club or discussion group with other parents to explore educational methods that prioritize academic achievement. This can be a space to share resources, such as books or articles, on effective teaching strategies and alternative education models. By collectively educating yourselves, you can better advocate for changes in your children's schools or consider alternative schooling options that focus on core academic skills.
- Volunteer to mentor or tutor students in your community, focusing on basic literacy and math skills. This personal involvement can help address the academic gaps you're concerned about while providing direct support to students who may be struggling. You can connect with local schools, libraries, or community centers to offer your time, or even start an informal group with friends or neighbors to tutor children in your community.
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Public School Problems and Reform Needs
Jordan Peterson and Corey DeAngelis discuss the public school system's failures and the deep-seated issues within the education system that impede effective reform.
Public Schools: Costly, Widespread Failure in Education
Public Schools Are a Costly Monopoly Poorly Teaching Basic Skills Like Literacy
Jordan Peterson describes the public school system as failures in many aspects, commenting that it is "extraordinarily expensive" and "expansive," but does a "dismal job" of educating children, specifically in teaching basic literacy. He points out that 50% of US state budgets are directed towards K-12 education, but there's still a geographic monopoly caused by school assignments based on addresses. DeAngelis criticizes this system, suggesting a lack of incentive to use funding wisely.
DeAngelis provides the example of Chicago public schools that, despite high per-student spending, show a 0% math proficiency rate. Peterson criticizes the theoretical approaches to literacy promoted by faculties of education, asserting that these approaches have devastated literacy rates. He suggests instead that elementary reading should be taught through phonetics.
Public School System Promotes Harmful Progressive Agendas
Schools Indoctrinate Students With Marxist, Anti-American, Gender Ideology
Corey DeAngelis criticizes public schools for introducing gender ideology and critical race theory into their curriculum instead of focusing on academic outcomes. He references how the COVID-19 pandemic exposed far-left ideologies, implying that the remote learning experience gave families a glimpse into the curriculum containing Marxism and other leftist ideologies.
DeAngelis talks about teachers reportedly infusing gender ideology into their teachings and discussing critical race theory, sometimes flaunting these actions on social media platforms. He mentions the reaction to parental complaints about such issues, with parents being labeled as domestic terrorists.
Additionally, DeAngelis points to a survey that found 36% of high school students felt their teachers often stated that America is a fundamentally racist country. He sees this as evidence of widespread indoctrination.
Education Faculties Controlling Teacher Certification Are Radically Left-Wing and Resistant to Reform
Peterson asserts that a significant portion o ...
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Public School Problems and Reform Needs
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- Public schools have successfully educated millions of students, with many going on to achieve higher education and successful careers.
- The cost of public education is often compared to the long-term benefits of an educated populace, which can lead to a more informed and productive society.
- Geographic assignment of schools is intended to ensure that all children have access to education, though it can be argued that this system needs reform to address disparities.
- While some schools may struggle with proficiency rates, there are many public schools that perform well, and proficiency rates can be influenced by a variety of socioeconomic factors.
- There are multiple methods of teaching literacy, and while phonetics is one approach, others may also be effective depending on the context and individual student needs.
- Public schools aim to teach a broad curriculum that prepares students for a diverse and complex world, and discussions of social issues are part of preparing students to be informed citizens.
- The inclusion of discussions around gender and race in schools reflects broader societal conversations and can be part of a comprehensive education that addresses current events and social issues.
- Labeling concerned parents as domestic terrorists is not a widespread practice, and there are legitimate avenues for parents to express concerns about their children's education.
- Surveys about student perceptions of America's history with racism can reflect the students' experiences and education on historical and contemporary social issues, and do not necessarily indicate indoctrination.
- The political leanings of education PhD ...
Actionables
- You can enhance your child's literacy by incorporating phonics-based learning apps into their daily routine, such as using an app that turns vocabulary building into a game, ensuring they get practice in a fun and engaging way.
- By integrating technology that focuses on phonetic learning, you're providing an alternative to the methods you may feel are ineffective in schools. For example, an app that uses colorful animations to associate sounds with letters can make learning to read more interactive and enjoyable for children, potentially increasing their engagement and retention of literacy skills.
- Start a local book club for parents and children that focuses on American history and civic values to counterbalance perspectives you're concerned about in school curricula.
- This creates a community space for learning and discussion that aligns with your values. For instance, the club could read biographies of influential Americans who embody the principles you admire, followed by group discussions that allow for a deeper understanding of the country's history and values from various viewpoints.
- Volunteer to mentor or tutor students in subjects ...
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School Choice and Competition: Rationale and Benefits
Corey DeAngelis and Jordan Peterson highlight the importance of school choice, offering compelling reasons why it benefits students, parents, and the overall educational system.
School Choice Empowers Parents to Direct Education
Parents, Not Government, Should Choose Children's Educational Path
Corey DeAngelis strongly advocates for parents to direct the upbringing of their children, as they have the fundamental right to choose their educational path. He asserts children belong to their parents rather than the government or the teachers' unions. Explaining the parents should have the power to direct educational funding to the schools of their choice, DeAngelis discusses the concept of funding students rather than systems. This idea, encapsulated in the phrase "funding students not systems," has become a strategic cornerstone in the argument for school choice, suggesting that the money should follow the child.
Jordan Peterson believes that parents, being deeply concerned about their children's future and rights, should have the option to choose high-quality educational institutions and protect them from ideological influences, giving them a good start in life.
Competition and Options Drive Schools to Improve Quality and Responsiveness
DeAngelis emphasizes that the right to choose fosters competition among schools. He describes the typical voucher amount in school choice programs as about half of what is spent per student in government schools, indicating efficiency along with parental empowerment. Additionally, DeAngelis highlights that education savings accounts in Arizona, which allow for paying micro schools, show the mechanism that empowers parents to choose alternative educational settings for their children.
Peterson and DeAngelis also discuss the potential for school choice to create parental involvement and concur that parents knowing their children best should be the ones making education-related decisions.
School Choice Can Produce Better Outcomes For Students
DeAngelis points to 26 out of 29 studies that find positive effects of private school competition on public school outcomes. This indicates that broadening choice and increasing competition could benefit students, including those from lower income families, by creating a larger variety of educational opportunities that drive enhancements in schools.
In Florida, over 100,000 kids, predominantly low-income and non-white, already benefit from the private school choice program. This illustrates the equalizing potential of school choice programs.
School Choice Boosts Graduation, Cuts Crime, Lowers Teen Pregnancy
Peterson discusses the benefits attributed to programs like Head Start, which potentially increase graduation rates, reduce incarceration, and lower teen pregnancy rates. DeAngelis echoes this perspective by explaining how the Milwaukee voucher program led to significant crime reduction. Additionally, he mentions a study where a charter school lottery win in New York City eradicated the likelihood of criminal behavior in male students.
DeAngelis also references a study that showed a 38% reduction in paternity disputes, potentially in ...
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School Choice and Competition: Rationale and Benefits
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Counterarguments
- School choice may lead to the defunding and weakening of public schools as resources are diverted to private institutions.
- Not all parents have the time, knowledge, or resources to make informed decisions about their children's education, potentially exacerbating educational inequalities.
- Increased competition might not always lead to improved quality, as schools may focus on marketing or superficial metrics rather than substantive educational improvements.
- Voucher programs and education savings accounts could inadvertently fund schools that discriminate or do not adhere to certain educational standards.
- The positive effects of private school competition on public school outcomes are not universally agreed upon, with some studies showing mixed or negative impacts.
- School choice could lead to greater segregation in schools, with students from more affluent families clustering in certain schools, leaving disadvantaged students behind.
- The benefits attributed to programs like Head Start may not be solely due to school choice but rather to the additional resources and attention provided to at-risk students.
- The reduction in crime rates or paternit ...
Actionables
- You can research and compare the educational outcomes of schools in your area to make informed decisions for your children's education. Look into the performance statistics, special programs, and extracurricular activities offered by both public and private schools. For example, if you're considering a charter school, check their standardized test scores and college acceptance rates compared to nearby public schools.
- Start a parent discussion group in your community to share experiences and information about different schooling options. This could be a monthly meetup where parents talk about the pros and cons of the schools their children attend, share insights about alternative educational programs, and discuss ways to maximize the benefits of school choice policies.
- Volunteer to serve on th ...
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Political Dynamics and Opposition From Teachers' Unions to School Choice
The dialogue between Jordan Peterson and Corey DeAngelis explores the intertwined relationship between teachers' unions, the Democratic Party, and the opposition to school choice initiatives, highlighting the political and ideological challenges that impede educational reform.
Teachers' Unions Hold Significant Political Influence and Back the Democratic Party
Teachers' Union Donations Favor Democrats, Aligned With Unions' Interests
DeAngelis notes that teachers' unions contribute significantly to the Democratic Party, suggesting a symbiotic relationship. He provides the example that 99.9% of financial contributions from Randi Weingarten's union, the American Federation of Teachers, went to the Democratic Party. This financial backing is seen by DeAngelis as akin to a "money laundering operation," since the Democrats benefit from these contributions and, in return, promote the unions' interests.
Unions and Left-Wing Interests Oppose School Choice Initiatives
DeAngelis accuses the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) and its leader, Randi Weingarten, of lobbying to make it harder to reopen schools during the COVID-19 pandemic to secure additional funding. The conversation implies political opposition to school choice, referencing a case where a "lefty judge" struck down a voucher program and suggesting that those aligned with unions, which traditionally back the Democratic Party, may oppose such initiatives.
DeAngelis criticizes the hypocrisy of Democrats and union-supported entities in opposing certain school choice programs while supporting other government-backed individual assistance programs like Pell Grants and Medicaid vouchers.
The dialogue also touches upon the issue of curricular content in public schools, including allegedly Marxist and gender ideologies. DeAngelis argues that school choice allows parents to choose schools better aligned with their values. Furthermore, he discusses the possibility of schools defying bans on ideological curriculums such as Critical Race Theory, possibly indicating that unions and administrators are bypassing laws intended to prevent such teachings.
DeAngelis further highlights that during the pandemic, schools' reliance on remote learning systems revealed to parents the types of ideologies their children were being exposed to, sparking concern about the curricular content. He mentions that school administrators are admitting on undercover videos to teaching CRT by calling it something else.
Overcoming Obstacles Is Crucial For Expanding School Choice
Gop Should Prioritize School Choice to Wi ...
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Political Dynamics and Opposition From Teachers' Unions to School Choice
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Counterarguments
- Teachers' unions argue that their political contributions are a form of advocating for public education and teachers' rights, rather than a quid pro quo with the Democratic Party.
- Some educators and policy analysts believe that school choice can lead to a decrease in funding and resources for public schools, which serve the majority of children.
- Critics of school choice argue that voucher programs and charter schools lack the accountability and transparency that public schools are subject to.
- There is a concern that school choice could exacerbate segregation by race and class, as families with more resources are better positioned to navigate the choice system.
- Some opponents of school choice contend that it undermines the communal aspect of public education, where schools serve as a unifying social institution within communities.
- Critics of the argument against ideological curriculums suggest that teaching about systemic issues like racism is not inherently ideological but rather an important part of a comprehensive education.
- There is debate over whether the GOP's focus on school choice is genuinely about i ...
Actionables
- You can research and compare the educational platforms of local political candidates to make informed voting decisions that align with your views on school choice. Look up their past voting records, public statements, and policy proposals on education to see how they align with your values and the importance you place on school choice. For example, if a candidate has consistently supported policies that limit school choice, and this is a critical issue for you, consider supporting an alternative candidate who prioritizes educational freedom.
- Start a blog or social media page to share information and personal stories about the impact of school choice on families. By highlighting real-life examples of how school choice has benefited or could benefit children, you can contribute to the conversation and potentially influence public opinion. For instance, interview parents who have navigated the school choice system successfully and share their experiences and outcomes.
- Engage in local school boar ...
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