526. Trump, Musk, Kennedy: the Dawn of Transparency | Michael Shellenberger
In this episode of The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast, Peterson and guest Michael Shellenberger delve into the looming threats to free speech and civil liberties. They examine the "censorship complex" revealed by the Twitter Files, highlighting the suppression of dissent and the spread of government propaganda.
The discussion also explores the rampant government corruption and potential waste within agencies like USAID. Shellenberger and Peterson emphasize the rise of populism and nationalism as a backlash against unaccountable bureaucracies and the erosion of Western values. As the US confronts a shifting global landscape, they argue for the restoration of principles like civic duty to guide the nation's vision amid technological transformations.
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The Threat to Free Speech and Civil Liberties
J.D. Vance warned at the Munich Security Summit that Europe's censorship push threatens NATO security. Joe Biden suggested the same could endanger shared US-European security interests.
The Twitter Files revealed a government-backed "censorship complex" suppressing dissent, per Michael Shellenberger. US elites historically generated propaganda to rally public support, accusing Trump of Russian collusion while dismissing the Hunter Biden laptop story.
Jordan Peterson connected free speech to innovation and security. Vance affirmed America's deep commitment to free speech against authoritarianism.
Government Corruption and Need For Reform
Elon Musk's team uncovered over $1 trillion in potential waste, fraud and abuse at USAID, Shellenberger said, highlighting mismanagement and derangement within the agency.
Most agencies lack means to track spending, enabling waste, Peterson noted from his past findings. Trump was willing to shut down corrupt institutions like USAID for a fresh start rather than reform them.
Rise of Populism and Nationalism
The public rejects elites' "globalist utopian" vision undermining sovereignty in favor of nationalism and populism, Peterson and Shellenberger argued. Figures like Vance and Musk advocate preserving Western civilization.
The "woke reign of terror" excesses fueled the populist backlash against eroding civil liberties and unaccountable bureaucracies.
Global Power Shifts and US Role
With "Pax Americana" ending, the US must rethink its role in a multipolar world, Shellenberger stated. While still strong, it cannot replicate its post-WWII dominance.
Restoring Western principles like self-sacrifice and civic duty is crucial, Peterson and Shellenberger argued. Technological transformation demands US vision and leadership amid AI and social media reshaping the world.
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Counterarguments
- Censorship concerns may be valid, but it's important to balance free speech with the need to combat misinformation and protect democratic processes.
- The Twitter Files must be scrutinized critically, considering potential biases and the full context of the revealed information.
- Accusations of propaganda and misinformation are serious and require thorough investigation, but they should not dismiss the importance of addressing foreign interference in elections.
- Free speech is crucial, but it must also consider the impact of hate speech and harmful rhetoric on society and individual rights.
- The commitment to free speech should not prevent the government from regulating speech that incites violence or spreads dangerous falsehoods.
- Claims of waste, fraud, and abuse in government agencies like USAID need to be substantiated with rigorous audits and should not lead to hasty conclusions about the necessity of these institutions.
- While tracking spending is essential, the complexity of government operations means that some inefficiencies are inevitable, and reforms may be more practical than complete shutdowns.
- Populism and nationalism can address certain public concerns, but they also risk oversimplifying complex issues and fostering division.
- Advocating for Western civilization can be seen as valuable, but it should not ignore the contributions and perspectives of other cultures and civilizations.
- Criticizing "woke" culture may resonate with some, but it's important to recognize the legitimate concerns about social justice and equality that underpin these movements.
- The end of "Pax Americana" presents challenges, but it also offers opportunities for more equitable global partnerships and shared leadership.
- While Western principles like self-sacrifice and civic duty are important, they should be integrated with a broader, more inclusive set of values that reflect a diverse society.
- US leadership in technology and social media must be exercised responsibly, with consideration for privacy, ethical standards, and the global impact of American companies.
Actionables
- You can start a personal audit of your online presence to ensure you're contributing to free speech and innovation. Review your social media accounts and blog posts, if any, to assess whether you're self-censoring or not engaging in discussions due to fear of backlash. Aim to express your opinions more freely, while respecting others, to foster an environment of open dialogue and innovation.
- Engage in local community efforts that promote transparency and accountability in spending. Volunteer with a local watchdog group or start a community initiative to track and report on the use of public funds in your area. This grassroots approach to fiscal responsibility can help reduce waste and fraud at a local level, mirroring the larger-scale efforts discussed.
- Educate yourself on the principles of Western civilization, such as self-sacrifice and civic duty, and integrate them into your daily life. This could involve reading historical texts or modern interpretations of these principles and then actively looking for ways to practice them, such as volunteering for a cause you believe in or participating in local governance to contribute to your community's well-being.
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The Threat to Free Speech and Civil Liberties
The Munich Security Summit and revelations from the Twitter Files have triggered debates concerning the sanctity of free speech and civil liberties, as experts raise concerns about government interference and the global impact on alliances such as NATO.
EU's Censorship Push and Impact on US-European Alliance
Biden: Censorship in Europe Threatens NATO Security
J.D. Vance, speaking at the Munich Security Summit, voiced concerns that Europe's trend toward censorship could endanger the NATO alliance. He underscored the significance America places on free speech, suggesting that Europe's move towards greater control over speech may put shared security interests at risk.
US Government's Role in Creating "Censorship Complex" to Suppress Dissent
Twitter Files Reveal Govt-Backed Censorship, Disinformation Against Trump and Conservatives
Michael Shellenberger discusses his involvement in unveiling the "Twitter files," which brought to light an alleged "censorship industrial complex." This complex involved government-run disinformation campaigns targeting former President Trump and conservative voices. The complex reportedly exerted pressure on social media companies to stifle dissent and manipulate public opinion through preemptive disinformation efforts.
Shellenberger also recalls how US elites historically generated propaganda to rally public support and dissent suppression. Recent examples cited include accusations of Russian collusion with former President Trump, the outrageous neglect of the lab-leak theory on COVID-19 origins, and the dismissal of the Hunter Biden laptop story. The Twitter files have exposed deep ties between tech companies and the government engaging in censorship.
Protecting the Fundamental Right of Free Speech
Free Speech: Western Civilization's Foundation, an American Value Against Authoritarianism
Jordan Peterson connects free speech with a country's ability to foster creative thought and innovation. He posits that stifling free speech can weaken a country's security by hindering the honest and innovative mechanisms upon which it depends.
Vance presented a robust defense of free speech in Munich, detailing its intrinsic value as per American ethos and enlightenment ideals that or ...
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The Threat to Free Speech and Civil Liberties
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Counterarguments
- The EU's approach to regulation may be driven by legitimate concerns over hate speech, misinformation, and the protection of democratic processes, which can be seen as complementary to free speech rather than in opposition to it.
- Government involvement in content moderation could be part of efforts to protect citizens from foreign interference, disinformation campaigns, or to uphold public order and safety.
- Historical use of propaganda by US elites could be interpreted as part of broader communication strategies in the national interest, rather than solely for dissent suppression.
- While free speech is crucial for innovation, some argue that unregulated speech can lead to the spread of harmful misinformation, which can undermine public trust and societal stability.
- The emphasis on free speech as a primary liberty might not fully account for the evolving understanding of human rights, which includes the protection of individuals from hate speech and discrimination.
- The US commitment to free speech, while strong, is not absolute, as there are legal limitations in place to balance against other rights and societal interests, such as incitement to violence or defama ...
Actionables
- You can start a personal "free speech journal" to track and reflect on instances where you feel your right to speak freely is challenged or upheld. This journal can serve as a personal audit of how free speech impacts your daily life. For example, note any situations at work, in social settings, or online where you self-censor or witness others doing so, and reflect on the potential reasons and consequences.
- Create a "value clarification chart" for yourself, listing core values such as free speech alongside other values you hold dear, and assess how your actions support these values. This could involve evaluating your social media behavior, the organizations you support, or the products you buy, ensuring that your actions align with your commitment to free speech and other personal values.
- Engag ...
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Government Corruption and the Need For Reform
Debates ignite as Elon Musk attempts to delve into the intricacies of government spending and expose the alarming extents of waste within USAID.
Waste and Mismanagement Within Usaid
In a stunning revelation, Michael Shellenberger discusses the potential for colossal taxpayer waste within the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), as Elon Musk's team works to uncover issues of corruption, fraud, and abuse. Jordan Peterson echoes these sentiments, suggesting that Musk's efforts might highlight up to a trillion dollars worth of waste.
Elon Musk's Team Uncovers Potential $1 Trillion Taxpayer Waste in Usaid Corruption, Fraud, and Abuse
Elon Musk and his team, gaining access to USAID's systems, unveil gross negligence and potential fraud leading to enormous taxpayer waste. This indicates more than just mismanagement but severe derangement and abuse of power within the agency, as described by Shellenberger. The exposure of this waste highlights the discrepancies between USAID's stated mission and the outcomes it achieves.
Difficulty In Tracking Government Spending
Shellenberger and Jordan Peterson discuss the hurdles concerning the measurement of governmental activity and efficiency. Peterson recounts his findings from 40 years prior, where he realized that governmental financial tracking is deeply flawed, with most estimates potentially being significantly inaccurate.
Most Agencies Lack Means to Track and Report Public Money Use, Enabling Waste and Mismanagement
Peterson conveys that the government's inability to effectively monitor and report spending has resulted in unchecked wastefulness. The Treasury Department's policy of not questioning invoices presents opportunities for fraudulent activities through shell companies. These shortcomings make assessing the impact and productivity of governmental budgets particularly challenging.
Dismantling Bureaucracies and Rebuilding Government
In the wake of these revelations, the Trump administration takes a radical approach to addressing government corruption by shutting down USAID. This move points to a recognition withi ...
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Government Corruption and the Need For Reform
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Counterarguments
- The extent of the waste uncovered by Elon Musk's team may be exaggerated or require further verification by independent audits.
- The claim of $1 trillion in waste could be a hyperbolic figure that needs to be substantiated with detailed evidence.
- Shutting down USAID might have negative consequences for international development and humanitarian efforts that rely on its support.
- There may be more effective ways to reform USAID and similar institutions without completely dismantling them, such as increased oversight, improved transparency, and stricter financial controls.
- The Trump administration's approach to shutting down agencies could be seen as too radical and may not address the root causes of corruption or inefficiency.
- The use of tactics for regime change being repurposed domestically could be a misinterpretation of legitimate political strategy and oversight.
- The narrative might oversimplify the complexity of government spending and the challenges of tracking and managing public funds.
- The involvement of high-profile figures like Elon Musk and Jordan P ...
Actionables
- You can scrutinize your local government's spending by requesting budget reports and attending town hall meetings to ask questions about specific expenditures. By becoming an informed citizen, you can help ensure that your community's funds are used effectively and raise awareness of any potential waste or fraud.
- Start a community watch group focused on fiscal responsibility that meets regularly to review public spending and discuss ways to improve transparency and accountability. This group could create a shared online document where members can log and track questionable expenses they come across in public records.
- Encourage your repres ...
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Rise of Populism and Nationalism Against Globalism
The public is increasingly turning away from the globalist vision of the elites and embracing nationalism and populism, with figures like J.D. Vance and Elon Musk advocating for the preservation of Western civilization and national character.
Rejection of "Globalist Utopian" Agenda by American Public
Voters Reject Condescending Elites Undermining National Sovereignty and Values for a Borderless Vision
Jordan Peterson describes the rise of so-called populism as a rebellion by the grounded working class against condescending elites. This rejection comes as a response to elites undermining national sovereignty and pushing a borderless vision. Shellenberger criticizes Justin Trudeau's "global monoculture" vision, seeing it as soulless and potentially leading to a global government. He argues voters are rejecting establishment policies and the undermining of democracy.
Renewed National Pride and Cultural Protection
J.D. Vance and Elon Musk Advocate For Nationalism Preserving Western Civilization and Nation-State Character
J.D. Vance gave a speech that could be connected to nationalism through technology leadership. Shellenberger highlights ARC as a central event for intellectual life, celebrating human uniqueness and Western civilization. Michael Shellenberger speaks to individual pride in acting responsibly within society, contrasting with figures exemplifying "toxic masculinity," like Andrew Tate. The union of figures such as Trump, Musk, and Vance is seen as centered around preserving nationalism. Vance talked at the Munich Security Summit about national conservatism, including free speech and the issue of mass migration.
Backlash Against Eroding Civil Liberties and Government Power Weaponization
Public Outrage Over "Woke Reign of Terror" Excesses and Unaccountable Bureaucracies Fuels Populist, Anti-Establishment Sentiments
Peterson points to public outrage against the perceived "woke reign of terror" by elite groups like the WEF, contributing to populist sentiments. He criticizes the elite for mistaking intellect for moral superiority, leading to potentially crooked endeavors. Shellenberger disc ...
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Rise of Populism and Nationalism Against Globalism
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Counterarguments
- Globalism can foster international cooperation, which is essential for addressing global challenges such as climate change, pandemics, and international security.
- Nationalism can sometimes lead to isolationism, which might hinder a country's economic growth and its ability to influence global affairs.
- Populism may not always represent the interests of the entire nation, as it often appeals to specific groups and can be divisive.
- The concept of Western civilization is complex and diverse, and not all aspects of it may be worth preserving; some traditions may need to evolve to reflect contemporary values.
- Elites are not a monolithic group, and many work within national and international frameworks to address the concerns of various populations.
- Democracy is a system that includes checks and balances, and the establishment often plays a role in maintaining these checks against potential abuses of power.
- The term "woke reign of terror" is subjective and may not accurately reflect the intentions or actions of those advocating for social justice and equality.
- Science and expertise are crucial for informed policymaking, and while there have been historical misuses, they are not inherently tools for control.
- Charac ...
Actionables
- You can start a blog or social media page focused on local culture and traditions to foster a sense of national pride. Share stories, recipes, and history that highlight your country's unique aspects, encouraging others to celebrate and preserve them. For example, if you're from Italy, post about traditional Italian festivals or family stories related to regional dishes.
- Engage in community volunteer work that supports local businesses and crafts. By helping at a farmer's market or a local artisan fair, you contribute to the economic and cultural vitality of your community. This could involve setting up stalls, promoting the events online, or even offering free workshops on traditional crafts.
- Create a reading group that focuses on books and literature from ...
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Global Power Shifts and the Future U.S. Role
As the geopolitical landscape evolves, experts suggest that America must reassess its role as an indispensable superpower. This includes addressing how foundational principles of Western civilization must be reclaimed to navigate technological and geopolitical transformations.
America's Position as Indispensable Superpower Is Challenged
End of Post-Cold War "Pax Americana": U.S. Must Rethink Role in Multipolar World
Shellenberger indicates that the era known as "Pax Americana," marked by U.S. global dominance, has ended. America must reconsider its role now that traditional methods of exerting influence, like via USAID, may not be effective or go unchallenged. There are concerns about the voids in global power that could arise if critical channels of American soft power are shut down. With other nations like Russia and China potentially filling these voids, Shellenberger stresses that America’s geographical advantages and resources, including AI and energy, still place it in a strong position, but that it must adapt to the changing multipolar world dynamics.
Shellenberger also discusses the post-Cold War hubris that led to foreign policy failures, including the turmoil following the fall of communism and military interventions in the Middle East and Eastern Europe.
There is no consensus on the U.S.'s new role within the Republican Party or elsewhere. The U.S. remains secure, flanked by oceans and with military might, yet, Shellenberger notes, it cannot replicate its post-WWII role in the modern multipolar context.
Reaffirming Foundational Principles of Western Civilization
The conversation turns to foundational values of Western civilization, focusing on the principles of self-sacrifice, hard work, and delayed gratification.
Restoring Faith in Self-Sacrifice, Delayed Gratification, and Civic Duty Is Crucial for U.S. Progress
Jordan Peterson introduces the principle of voluntary self-sacrifice as an antidote to power and hedonism, emphasizing the Passion of Christ as its embodiment and a source of stability in Western culture. Shellenberger touches on the Enlightenment's contribution to defining citizenship and its responsibilities for preserving civilization's values. However, Peterson criticizes the Enlightenment for weakening the religious moral framework by separating myth from reality, further encouraging moral decay and power struggles. Shellenberger echoes the sentiment, pointing out the need to revisit the principles America was founded on, such as self-sacrifice and civic duty, to progress.
Uncertainty and Opportunities in Technological and Geopolitical Transformation
Legacy and new technologies are reshaping the world, and America stands at a c ...
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Global Power Shifts and the Future U.S. Role
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Counterarguments
- America's role as an indispensable superpower may not need to be reassessed if it can effectively adapt its existing strategies to the new geopolitical realities.
- Other nations filling voids in global power does not necessarily mean negative outcomes; multipolarity could lead to a more balanced and stable international order.
- The U.S. might still exert significant influence through soft power channels by innovating its approach to diplomacy and international relations.
- The post-Cold War hubris could be viewed as a series of strategic decisions with mixed outcomes, rather than outright failures.
- There may be a consensus on the U.S.'s new role that is emerging but not yet fully articulated within the Republican Party or other political entities.
- The foundational principles of Western civilization could be reinterpreted and modernized rather than simply reclaimed, to better align with contemporary societal values.
- The Enlightenment's contribution to separating myth from reality can be seen as a positive development that has fostered critical thinking and scientific advancement.
- The role of technology in reshaping the world could be approached with a more nuanced view that considers both the risks and benefits of technological advancements.
- The leadership of individuals like Elon Musk may not be universally seen as imperative, and colle ...
Actionables
- You can foster a global perspective by starting a book club focused on international affairs and cultural understanding. By selecting books from authors around the world, especially from emerging powers like China and Russia, you'll gain insights into the multipolar world dynamics and understand different viewpoints on global leadership and power shifts. This can be a simple yet effective way to broaden your understanding of international relations and the role of the U.S. in the world.
- Engage in community service projects that emphasize self-sacrifice and civic duty. Look for local initiatives that require collaboration and long-term commitment, such as mentoring programs, environmental conservation efforts, or community-building activities. These projects can help you practice the principles of self-sacrifice and civic duty, reinforcing the values discussed in the podcast and contributing to societal progress.
- Create a personal "tech and ethics" discussion group on social media platforms ...
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