493. The Brutal Shadow of Equity In Canada | Celina Caesar-Chavannes
The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast hosts Celina Caesar-Chavannes, a former member of Canada's Liberal party. Caesar-Chavannes reflects on her transition from a successful career in healthcare management to federal politics, where she felt her role under Prime Minister Trudeau was largely symbolic. She details her growing disillusionment with the government's centralized decision-making and lack of transparency, culminating in her public resignation from the Liberal caucus in 2019.
Caesar-Chavannes candidly discusses her confrontations with Trudeau, the personal risks she took to speak out against unethical treatment, and the aftermath—a year of unemployment and mental health struggles. The conversation examines her journey to find purpose through writing, aiming to promote ethical political leadership.
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1-Page Summary
Celina Caesar-Chavannes' Background and Entry into Politics
Celina had a successful career in healthcare management prior to politics, starting a research firm that grew to lead national epidemiology studies. She aimed to address the gaps she saw in caring for those with neurological conditions through a national brain strategy and senior care policy.
She joined the Liberal party, and was swiftly appointed as Prime Minister Trudeau's parliamentary secretary. However, Caesar-Chavannes felt her role was symbolic rather than substantive, as she was sidelined from key discussions and restricted from publicly engaging.
Tensions Within the Trudeau Government
Caesar-Chavannes grew disillusioned with the centralized decision-making in Trudeau's government. The SNC-Lavalin scandal involving Jody Wilson-Raybould's ousting exacerbated her view of lacking transparency and accountability.
She risked her career to speak out against the unethical treatment she says she experienced from the Prime Minister's Office, culminating in confrontational encounters where she describes experiencing Trudeau's contempt and hatred.
Resignation and Aftermath
In 2019, after tense clashes with Trudeau, Caesar-Chavannes resigned from the Liberal caucus, putting her future at risk but preserving her integrity.
Jobless for a year after resigning, Caesar-Chavannes grappled with potential blacklisting and a mental health crisis. She eventually found purpose in writing her memoir to advocate for ethical political leadership.
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Clarifications
- The SNC-Lavalin scandal involved allegations that Canadian officials pressured the former Attorney General, Jody Wilson-Raybould, to intervene in a criminal case against the engineering firm SNC-Lavalin. The controversy centered on whether the government sought to secure a deferred prosecution agreement for the company, which would allow it to avoid a trial on corruption charges. Wilson-Raybould's testimony suggested inappropriate political interference in the legal process, leading to concerns about the rule of law and government ethics. The scandal raised questions about transparency, accountability, and the independence of the judiciary in Canada.
- The Canadian political system operates as a parliamentary democracy and a constitutional monarchy. The Prime Minister is the head of government, leading the executive branch, while the monarch is the head of state. Members of Parliament (MPs) are elected to represent constituencies in the House of Commons, where the government is formed by the party with the most seats. The Senate, the upper house, reviews legislation but has less power than the House of Commons. The judiciary is independent of the legislative and executive branches.
- A parliamentary secretary is a Member of Parliament chosen by the Prime Minister to assist a specific cabinet minister. They act as a liaison between the minister and the backbench MPs, helping with administrative tasks and representing the minister when needed. While they do not hold a cabinet position, they play a crucial role in supporting the government's agenda and communicating with other members of Parliament. Their duties can vary depending on the needs of the minister they are assigned to assist.
Counterarguments
- Caesar-Chavannes' perception of her role as symbolic might not fully account for the complexities of political office and the division of responsibilities within a party or government.
- The centralized decision-making in Trudeau's government could be defended as a necessary aspect of maintaining party unity and effective governance, especially in times of crisis or when swift action is needed.
- The SNC-Lavalin scandal, while controversial, has been subject to various interpretations, and some argue that the government's actions were in the economic interest of protecting jobs.
- Speaking out against the Prime Minister's Office could be seen as a breach of party loyalty, which some might argue is essential for the functioning of a cohesive government.
- Resigning from the Liberal caucus may not necessarily be viewed as preserving integrity; some might argue it could have been more effective to work for change within the party structure.
- The notion of being blacklisted could be challenged by the idea that political careers often have ups and downs, and finding employment post-politics can be challenging for a variety of reasons not necessarily related to blacklisting.
- Writing a memoir and advocating for ethical political leadership is a subjective endeavor, and others might argue that Caesar-Chavannes' perspective is just one of many in the political landscape.
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Celina Caesar-Chavannes' political and professional background prior to entering politics
Celina Caesar-Chavannes is known for her professional achievements in the healthcare sector before she made her foray into politics.
Celina Caesar-Chavannes had a successful career as an entrepreneur, running a research-focused healthcare management firm for over a decade
Celina's pre-political career was marked by a substantial contribution to the Canadian healthcare industry, particularly within pharma clinical trials and research projects.
She had a Bachelor of Science in Human Biology and two MBAs, and gained extensive experience managing pharmaceutical clinical trials and research projects, particularly in the field of neurology and brain health
Celina Caesar-Chavannes holds a Bachelor of Science in Human Biology from the University of Toronto and two MBAs, one in healthcare management and an executive MBA from the Rotman School of Management at the University of Toronto. She fell in love with research after receiving an A in a fourth-year undergraduate course. She worked as a research coordinator at the TANS Neuroscience Building, and later decided to pursue her MBA to advance her career as a research manager. In 2005, she started Resolve Research Solutions, managing the business aspects of clinical trials for principal investigators and focusing on clinical trials, including a project on pediatric epilepsy. Her company grew to co-chair national epidemiology studies with the Public Health Agency of Canada, and she received accolades including the Black Business and Professional Association Harry Jerome Award for Young Entrepreneur and the Toronto Board of Trade Entrepreneur of the Year Award.
Celina's decision to run for office was motivated by a desire to address gaps and inequities in Canada's healthcare system, particularly for those caring for loved ones with neurological conditions
Celina Caesar-Chavannes ventured into politics to ...
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Celina Caesar-Chavannes' political and professional background prior to entering politics
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Clarifications
- Resolve Research Solutions was a company founded by Celina Caesar-Chavannes in 2005. The company focused on managing the business aspects of clinical trials for principal investigators, with a particular emphasis on projects related to healthcare, including a notable project on pediatric epilepsy. It grew to co-chair national epidemiology studies and received recognition for its work in the healthcare sector. Celina's experience with Resolve Research Solutions played a significant role in shaping her professional background before she entered politics.
- The Black Business and Professional Association Harry Jerome Award is a prestigious Canadian award that recognizes excellence and leadership within the Black community. It is named after Harry Jerome, a Canadian track and field athlete who set multiple world records. The award celebrates individuals who have made significant contributions to their respective fields and have demonstrated a commitment to community service. It is a symbol of achievement and recognition for Black professionals and entrepreneurs in Canada.
- The Toronto Board of Trade Entrepreneur of the Year Award is a prestigious recognition g ...
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Her experience as a parliamentary secretary and the dynamics within the Trudeau government
Celina Caesar-Chavannes shares her experience as a parliamentary secretary in the Trudeau government, discussing her initial high hopes and the ensuing disillusionment as she navigated the political landscape.
Despite her limited political experience, Celina was appointed as parliamentary secretary to Prime Minister Trudeau shortly after winning her seat, a role she describes as being the "right hand" of the Prime Minister.
Having been elected in 2015, Celina Caesar-Chavannes was promptly appointed as parliamentary secretary to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. She describes the role as the Prime Minister’s "right hand," a position where she was expected to be closely in sync with Trudeau's actions and positions. Despite her lack of political experience—she hadn't even taken a political science course—she was thrust into a role that she thought would allow her to execute a mandate and represent the people faithfully.
She had high hopes of being able to influence policy and advocate for her priorities, but quickly found herself sidelined and marginalized within the Trudeau administration.
Caesar-Chavannes hoped to influence policy and advocate for key issues, but quickly felt marginalized within the administration. She was excited about her potential influence, such as attending important events like the opening of the National African-American Museum in Washington. Yet, she noticed a pattern where she was often invited due to her identity, theorizing that her presence at events with heavy black representation was more about symbolic diversity than substance.
Celina describes a lack of meaningful interaction and communication with the Prime Minister, despite her role, and was prohibited from speaking in the House of Commons or engaging with the media.
She felt her contributions were not valued, and that she was being used predominantly for symbolic representation rather than substantive policymaking.
Caesar-Chavannes recounts a lack of meaningful interaction with Prime Minister Trudeau, a stark contrast to the close relationship she expected. Despite her readiness and capability, including learning French quickly to perform her role competently, she often felt sidelined in favor of symbolic diversity. Her roles and actions were restricted; she was not allowed to speak during question periods and was barred from speaking to the media. She felt like a token figure and not valued for her abilities, as she was frequently disengaged from substantial policymaking disc ...
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Her experience as a parliamentary secretary and the dynamics within the Trudeau government
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Counterarguments
- Appointment to a high-level position with limited experience can be seen as an opportunity for fresh perspectives and diversity of thought in government.
- Marginalization in politics can sometimes be attributed to the complex dynamics and hierarchies within any administration, not necessarily a failure of the leadership.
- The feeling of being restricted in policy influence could be due to the collective decision-making processes inherent in political environments.
- Lack of meaningful interaction with the Prime Minister might be a result of the demanding schedule and responsibilities of the head of government.
- Prohibitions from speaking in the House of Commons or engaging with the media could be standard practice for certain roles within the government to maintain a unified message.
- Symbolic representation can be an initial step towards substantive change and may have strategic value in politics.
- Delays in feedback for policy proposals like a national brain strategy could be due to the extensive review and consultation processes typically required in government.
- The perception of being used ...
Actionables
- You can evaluate your current role for alignment with your values by listing your job responsibilities and comparing them to your personal goals and priorities. If you find discrepancies, consider discussing them with your supervisor or seeking roles that better match your values.
- Create a personal advocacy plan by identifying issues you're passionate about and outlining steps to influence change within your sphere, such as writing to local representatives or starting awareness campaigns on social media.
- Practice as ...
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The tensions and conflicts that led to her departure from the Liberal party
Celina Caesar-Chavannes’s departure from the Liberal party in 2019 was a result of increasing disillusionment with the party’s transparency, accountability, and her experiences of conflict with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
Celina grew increasingly disillusioned with the apparent lack of transparency and accountability within the Trudeau government, particularly in the wake of the SNC-Lavalin scandal involving Jody Wilson-Raybould.
Celina mentions that decision-making was centralized in the Trudeau government, with important figures like Jerry Butts and Katie Telford running the show, similar to Harper's administration. She implicates this view as a common one, supported by the departure of figures like Bill Morneau who have voiced similar observations. After Jerry Butts stepped down, Celina saw a sign that the situation within the government would deteriorate. She felt marginalized and not supported within the Liberal party, feelings which were compounded on the same day Jody Wilson-Raybould stepped down. Celina told the Prime Minister she would not run again, citing personal disenfranchisement and a desire for more for the people she served.
She felt compelled to speak out against what she saw as unethical and abusive behavior by the Prime Minister's Office, despite the personal and professional risks.
Celina Caesar-Chavannes had a contentious phone call with the Prime Minister, in which he reprimanded her in a manner she found unprofessional. She asserts herself, making it clear she would not tolerate such treatment. Her decision to speak out about her experiences was influenced by the situation with Jody Wilson-Raybould, who was pressured by the Prime Minister's Office and expelled after refusing to succumb to that pressure.
Celina's decision to resign from the Liberal caucus in 2019 was precipitated by a series of tense, confrontational encounters with Prime Minister Trudeau, during which she experienced what she describes as contempt, hatred, and fear from the Prime Minister.
Celina reflects on feeling "duped" and "disenfranchised" by the Liberal party, which she felt was contrary to its principles of equity and justice. She highlights a discrepancy in her colleagues' responses to the Me Too movement and their reluctance to support Wilson-Raybould. She emphasizes the importance of standing by o ...
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The tensions and conflicts that led to her departure from the Liberal party
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Counterarguments
- Decision-making in any government is often complex, and centralization can sometimes be a response to the need for cohesive policy and action, especially in times of crisis.
- The perception of marginalization within a political party can be subjective and may not always reflect the broader intentions or actions of the party or its leadership.
- Speaking out against perceived unethical behavior is a significant personal decision, but it can also be seen as a political move that may align with personal ambitions or ideological differences.
- Tense encounters and conflicts are not uncommon in politics, and they can sometimes be exaggerated or misinterpreted due to the high-pressure environment and the stakes involved.
- The feeling of contempt, hatred, and fear is a serious accusation and may not necessarily reflect the intentions or feelings of the other party involved in the conflict.
- Standing by one's values and principles is commendable, but it is also important to consider the potential impact on governance and the ability to effect change from within the system.
- Career risks are inherent in political stands, but such risks can also lead to new ...
Actionables
- Reflect on your personal values by writing them down and considering how they align with your current environment, whether it's your workplace, social circle, or political affiliations. This exercise can help you identify areas where you may feel compromised or unsupported, similar to how Celina Caesar-Chavannes felt within her political party. For example, if honesty is a top value for you, but you find yourself in situations that demand the opposite, it's a sign that you might need to reassess your position or speak up.
- Practice assertive communication by role-playing scenarios where you need to confront unethical behavior or stand up for your principles. You can do this with a friend or in front of a mirror. Imagine a situation where you're facing pressure to act against your values, and practice responding in a way that is both respectful and firm. This can prepare you for real-life situations where you might need to take a stand, much like Celina did when she spoke out against actions she disagreed with.
- Create a personal risk assessment chart to eval ...
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The aftermath and impact of her resignation on her career
In the year following her resignation, Celina Caesar-Chavannes faced significant obstacles in her professional life, which took a toll on her mental health, but she emerged with a renewed sense of purpose.
Struggle for New Employment and Emotional Toll
After leaving politics, Celina Caesar-Chavannes struggled to find a job despite numerous applications, feeling the effects of possibly being blacklisted due to her public disagreement with the Prime Minister. This period triggered substantial emotional and psychological strain, challenging her mental stability and pushing her near the edge of a mental health crisis. The confrontation with someone as powerful as the Prime Minister left her stressed and wary of the repercussions of speaking out, including potentially never working in Canada again.
Rediscovering Purpose and Advocacy through Memoir Writing
Despite the challenges and emotional distress, Celina eventually regained her sense of purpose and resolve. She drew inspiration from her dedication to her constituents and decided to uphold her values regardless of the personal and professional costs.
As a result of her exp ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
The aftermath and impact of her resignation on her career
Additional Materials
Actionables
- You can create a personal resilience plan by identifying stress triggers and developing coping mechanisms, such as mindfulness exercises or a support network of friends and colleagues, to help navigate through challenging career transitions or public disagreements.
- Building a resilience plan involves recognizing the situations that cause you stress, much like Celina Caesar-Chavannes might have experienced. For example, if public speaking or confrontation is a trigger, you could practice stress-reduction techniques like deep breathing before such events. Additionally, having a trusted group of peers to discuss your challenges with can provide emotional support and practical advice.
- Start a journal to document your professional journey, including the challenges and successes, to reflect on your growth and maintain a sense of purpose during difficult times.
- Keeping a journal allows you to track your emotional and psychological state over time, which can be particularly useful when facing adversity. You might write about a tough day at work, how you dealt with it, and what you learned. This practice can help you see patterns in your responses and inspire you to find new ways to overcome similar situations in the future.
- Engage in community service or volunteer ...
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1-Page Summary- Celina Caesar-Chavannes' political and professional background prior to entering politics
- Her experience as a parliamentary secretary and the dynamics within the Trudeau government
- The tensions and conflicts that led to her departure from the Liberal party
- The aftermath and impact of her resignation on her career
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