#2336 - Ken Burns
In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, documentary filmmaker Ken Burns discusses his approach to creating historical documentaries with PBS. Burns explains how this partnership allows him complete creative freedom and the ability to spend extensive time on projects without commercial pressures. He also shares his philosophy on historical storytelling, including his commitment to embracing complexity rather than simple narratives.
The conversation explores how Burns approaches historical figures and events in his documentaries, treating subjects like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington as complex individuals rather than one-dimensional characters. Burns details his documentary-making process, which combines deep scholarship and thorough research to present varied perspectives on American history, from the Revolutionary period through the Vietnam War.
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Ken Burns' Documentary Approach With PBS
Ken Burns explains his deliberate choice to partner with PBS, viewing it as an institution that allows him complete creative autonomy. He likens PBS to the Declaration of Independence for communications, noting that this partnership enables him to spend extensive time on projects—like the decade he invested in his Vietnam War documentary—without commercial pressures. Burns describes his approach as that of an explorer, emphasizing deep scholarship and thorough research that allows nuanced perspectives to emerge naturally in his films.
Complexity and Nuance in Historical Storytelling
Burns rejects simple binary narratives in historical storytelling, emphasizing the importance of embracing complexity. He keeps a neon sign in his editing room stating "it's complicated" as a constant reminder of this philosophy. When discussing historical figures, Burns advocates for understanding them as complex individuals rather than perfect heroes or villains. He points to examples like Thomas Jefferson, who recognized slavery's wrongness yet owned slaves, and George Washington, whose leadership qualities coexisted with tactical mistakes.
Reviving Pivotal Moments and Figures in American History Through Documentaries
Through his documentary work, Burns brings both celebrated and lesser-known historical figures to life for modern audiences. He examines various aspects of American history, from the Revolution to the Vietnam War, focusing on the human drama within these events. Burns presents figures like George Washington not as stoic icons but as complex human beings, and explores the personal stories behind major historical events. He views his role as a documentarian as a sacred duty to faithfully represent the varied experiences and struggles of the American people throughout history.
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Counterarguments
- While PBS provides creative autonomy, it is still subject to funding constraints and political pressures that could potentially influence content.
- The comparison of PBS to the Declaration of Independence might be seen as hyperbolic, as the platform, while public, is not immune to external influences.
- Spending a decade on a documentary, as Burns did with his Vietnam War project, could be criticized for potentially lacking timeliness or responsiveness to current events.
- Deep scholarship and thorough research are commendable, but they may also lead to a form of gatekeeping where only certain narratives or perspectives are given prominence.
- Rejecting simple binary narratives is important, but there is a risk of creating false equivalencies or downplaying the significance of clear moral or ethical distinctions in history.
- The "it's complicated" philosophy, while valuable, might sometimes be used to avoid taking a clear stance on controversial issues.
- While Burns aims to bring lesser-known figures to life, some may argue that his documentaries still tend to focus on well-trodden historical paths rather than truly marginalized voices.
- The focus on the human drama within historical events can be criticized for sometimes overshadowing systemic issues or broader historical forces.
- Portraying historical figures as complex can sometimes lead to an underemphasis on the harm caused by their negative actions.
- The sacred duty to represent varied experiences might be challenged if the documentaries do not include a diverse range of perspectives, particularly those of historically marginalized groups.
- There is a potential criticism that documentaries, no matter how well-researched, inevitably reflect the biases and interpretations of the filmmaker.
Actionables
- You can start a personal journal to explore the complexities of your own life story, mirroring the approach of deep scholarship. Write daily or weekly entries that delve into your past experiences, decisions, and the people who have influenced you. Instead of viewing events through a binary lens of success or failure, consider the nuances and what you've learned from each situation. This practice can help you appreciate the multifaceted nature of your personal history.
- Create a visual reminder in your workspace that says "Embrace Complexity" to encourage a more nuanced perspective in your daily tasks. Whether you're solving problems at work, engaging in creative hobbies, or interacting with others, this sign can serve as a prompt to look beyond the surface and consider multiple angles and perspectives, fostering a mindset that appreciates the intricacies of any scenario.
- Engage with history by reading biographies of both well-known and obscure figures, focusing on the details that show their human side. As you read, take notes on the complexities of their characters and the context of their actions. This can help you develop a deeper understanding of history as a tapestry of human experiences, rather than a series of monolithic events, and can enhance your ability to recognize the richness of individual stories in the world around you.
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Ken Burns' Documentary Approach With PBS
Ken Burns, renowned for his mastery in documentary filmmaking, has deliberately chosen to collaborate with PBS to ensure creative autonomy and the freedom to delve deeply into complex historical narratives.
Ken Burns Partnered With PBS to Maintain Autonomy and Explore Complex History
Burns regards PBS as a unique institution akin to the Declaration of Independence but for communications, which equally supports comprehensive storytelling in documentary films. He relishes the directorial control and independence afforded by PBS, likening it to having "one foot in the marketplace and the other out." Burns indicates that such an environment is the only one where he could have possibly spent the 10 and a half years needed to produce his history of the Vietnam War. Working outside major media hubs, Burns forgoes external narrative pressures and commits to storytelling over the constraints of commercial timelines.
He appreciates the freedom to adjust project timelines, as with his "Vietnam" series, which evolved from seven to ten episodes.
Burns avoids the interference of "suits" and instead seeks underwriting, liberating his content and direction from external notes and mandates. This method ensures that the films remain director's cuts that reflect Burns' vision without outside alterations. He compares securing funding for his projects to a congressman raising money from various sources, emphasizing the absence of commercial pressures in public broadcasting.
Burns Emphasizes Deep Scholarship and Thorough Research, Allowing Nuanced Perspectives to Emerge Organically Through Filmmaking
Burns talks about his approach to filmmaking as one of an explorer, driven by discovery and an ambition to share findings rather than dictate to audiences what he knows. He attests to the necessity of deep scholarship and thorough research, noting the emergence of new information that daily enhances understanding of his subjects.
By partnering with PBS, Burns is given the time and freedom to marinate on ideas which helps intricate viewpoints to organically surface in his documentaries. He discusses engaging with scholars to learn varied aspects of history and the importance of understanding all voices, including both sides of the Vietnam War.
Burns likens documentary filmmaking to reducing sap to make maple syrup, emphasizing the distillation of vast information into a concentrated, cohesive narrative. Furthermore, he highlights the rigorous p ...
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Ken Burns' Documentary Approach With PBS
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Clarifications
- Ken Burns' reference to having "one foot in the marketplace and the other out" means that he values the creative freedom and independence he enjoys while working with PBS, which allows him to focus on storytelling without commercial pressures. This expression highlights his ability to balance artistic integrity with the practical considerations of reaching an audience and securing funding for his projects. It signifies his unique position of being able to navigate between the world of artistic expression and the demands of the media industry.
- Underwriting in the context of funding for projects typically involves financial support from corporations or individuals in exchange for acknowledgment in the project's credits or promotional material ...
Counterarguments
- While PBS provides creative autonomy, it may not have the same level of resources and reach as commercial networks, potentially limiting the audience size and production budget.
- Burns' long timelines for project completion, while allowing for depth, may not be as responsive to current events or trends as other documentary formats that have shorter production cycles.
- The underwriting model, although it avoids commercial pressures, could still introduce bias if the funders have specific interests or agendas related to the content of the documentaries.
- Burns' approach to deep scholarship and thorough research is commendable, but it could be argued that it may not always fully capture the diversity of perspectives, especially marginalized or less documented viewpoints.
- The comparison of documentary filmmaking to reducing sap to make maple syrup suggests a linear and reductionist process, which might oversimplify complex historical narratives and overlook the multifaceted nature of historical events.
- While Burns' documentaries are educat ...
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Complexity and Nuance in Historical Storytelling
Ken Burns explains the importance of capturing the nuanced reality of history, rejecting binary narratives, and embracing the complexities and contradictions within historical events and figures.
Burns Rejects Binary History Narratives, Embracing Complexity and Contradictions of Human Experience
Burns describes himself as an "umpire" calling balls and strikes, demonstrating a commitment to acknowledging the complexity of events like the American Revolution, where he includes perspectives of loyalists to show the contested nature of conservative values at the time. Emphasizing nuance, he has a neon sign in his editing room that states "it's complicated," underlining his filmmaking approach that accepts history as more intricate than simple binary discussions.
Burns discusses the complexities inherent in the nation's past, including the story of Samuel Adams, whose business failures juxtapose his significant role in resisting British rule. Furthermore, Burns acknowledges the founders' awareness of human flaws, such as ambition and greed, and their doubts about the sustainability of a republic based on virtue, showcasing the multifaceted nature of historical events and the flawed humanity of historical figures.
Understanding the Past: Acknowledge Historical Figures' Virtues and Flaws, Not As Perfect Heroes or Villains
Burns explores the contradiction in figures like Thomas Jefferson, who knew slavery was wrong yet practiced it, capturing the nuance of his historical role. He also highlights the paradox of George Washington, celebrating his leadership qualities and bravery while acknowledging his tactical mistakes and imperfections. This approach reflects Burns' commitment to telling stories that depict figures as complex beings rather than one-dimensional heroes or villains.
Burns Values "Negative Capability" - Embracing Competing Perspectives Without Rushing to Judgment
Burns discusses the concept of "negative capability," where he aims to hold competing aspects of a character or situation without rushing to judgment. For instance, Burns admits to the imperfection of the relationship between steroid use and exceptional athletic performance in baseball players, affirming his openness to the complexities of human choices and historical figures' legacies.
Openness to Complexity Enables Burns To Craft Documentaries Inviting Nuanced, Reflective Engagement With History, Avoiding Rigid Moral Absolutes
By discussing the concept of negative capability, Burns suggests that embracing the complexities and nuances of historical figures and situations allow ...
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Complexity and Nuance in Historical Storytelling
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Counterarguments
- While embracing complexity is valuable, there is a risk of creating false equivalencies or obscuring moral clarity when presenting all sides of an issue.
- The concept of "negative capability" might sometimes lead to a lack of decisive conclusions, which can be unsatisfying or confusing for audiences seeking clear historical understanding.
- By avoiding binary narratives, there is a possibility that the urgency or severity of certain historical injustices might be underemphasized.
- The focus on the flaws and virtues of historical figures could potentially lead to an overemphasis on individual agency, downplaying the role of broader social, economic, and political forces in history.
- Burns' approach to storytelling, while aiming to be neutral, may inadvertently reflect his own biases, as complete objectivity in historical interpretation is often unattainable.
- The commitment to avoiding pushi ...
Actionables
- You can deepen your understanding of historical events by writing a reflective journal entry after reading a history book or article. Choose a historical event or figure and write about the complexities and contradictions you notice. For example, if you read about the Industrial Revolution, reflect on both the technological advancements and the social challenges it brought, such as labor exploitation.
- Start a book club focused on historical biographies that delve into the virtues and flaws of their subjects. During discussions, encourage members to explore the gray areas in the characters' lives, rather than labeling them as simply heroes or villains. For instance, if you're reading about Winston Churchill, discuss his leadership during World War II alongside his controversial policies and statements.
- Engage with history by visiting local museums or historical sites ...
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Reviving Pivotal Moments and Figures in American History Through Documentaries
Burns Explores America Through Documentaries From the Revolution To Vietnam War
Ken Burns has tackled a series of documentaries drawing from diverse aspects of American history, from the Revolution to the Vietnam War. His work reexamines figures both celebrated and marginalized, illuminating obscure perspectives and bringing forward lesser-known individuals.
Historical Figures Reimagined For Modern Audiences
Burns brings both renowned and obscure figures from the American Revolution to life for modern audiences, like the lesser-known story of Henry Knox or the influences of the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois Confederacy). He delves into the personal drama, portraying George Washington not as a stoic figure but as a complex human being. By providing in-depth examinations of their motivations and the circumstances of the times, Burns seeks to reimagine these figures for contemporary viewers.
The stories from "Vietnam" and the tales of famous athletes like Muhammad Ali and Jack Johnson are told with the intent to humanize and provide context for the emotions, decision-making, and legacies that shaped them. Burns presents Ali’s life, his stance on the Vietnam War, his influence, and the personal consequences of his decisions, thereby giving modern audiences a relatable narrative.
Key Moments in American History, Like the Civil and Vietnam Wars, Are Presented by Burns as Human Dramas With Real Consequences
Burns reveals the personal and emotional aspect of American history through his works. The emotional impact and intense personal stories from the Vietnam War are highlighted in his documentaries. He discusses the real-life consequences of wars, saying that the American Revolution was as bloody per capita as the Civil War and drawing parallels to the Vietnam War's impact on the nation.
Personal Experiences and Emotions in Pivotal Eras
He touches on the personal experiences and emotions of pivotal historical moments, discussing events like the Boston Tea Party and the drafting of the Declaration of Independence as dramas filled with real decisions and emotions. Burns details the guerrilla actions and sectarian violence among Americans during the Revolution, comparing such actions from past to the later conflicts and underlining the personal toll of these events.
Burns Sees His Role as a Documentarian as a Sacred Duty to Faithfully Re ...
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Reviving Pivotal Moments and Figures in American History Through Documentaries
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Counterarguments
- While Burns is praised for bringing historical figures to life, some critics argue that his storytelling approach may sometimes oversimplify complex historical events or figures to fit a narrative arc.
- There is a debate over the extent to which documentaries can remain objective; some viewers might feel that Burns' personal perspective influences his portrayal of history.
- The focus on human drama and personal stories, while engaging, might lead to an underrepresentation of the broader socio-political and economic contexts of historical events.
- Burns' documentaries are sometimes criticized for their length and pacing, which may not appeal to all audiences and could potentially lead to viewer fatigue.
- Some historians argue that documentaries, including Burns', may choose to emphasize certain historical narratives over others, which can contribute to a skewed understanding of history.
- The emph ...
Actionables
- You can explore your own family's history to connect with the past by interviewing older relatives, creating a family tree, or researching genealogical records online. By understanding the lives and choices of your ancestors, you'll gain a personal perspective on historical events and how they've shaped your family's journey, much like how historical figures are humanized through their personal stories.
- Start a journal to reflect on how national events have impacted your life, noting your thoughts and feelings about them. This practice will help you recognize the personal and emotional aspects of history in your own experience, similar to how documentaries highlight the human drama of historical events.
- Engage ...
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