Podcasts > The Joe Rogan Experience > #2317 - Cody Tucker

#2317 - Cody Tucker

By Joe Rogan

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Joe Rogan and Cody Tucker examine how archaeological discoveries are changing our understanding of human history. The discussion covers evidence of advanced ancient civilizations, including sophisticated agricultural societies in the Amazon and mysterious structures in sub-Saharan Africa that some compare to descriptions of Atlantis.

The conversation also explores how ancient myths and religious narratives might preserve historical knowledge, from flood stories appearing across cultures to the origins of mythological creatures. Rogan and Tucker consider the existence of living fossils like the alligator gar, discuss the possibility of undiscovered prehistoric creatures, and address how institutional biases in academia can affect the interpretation of archaeological findings.

#2317 - Cody Tucker

This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the May 7, 2025 episode of the The Joe Rogan Experience

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#2317 - Cody Tucker

1-Page Summary

Archaeology and Discovering Lost Civilizations

In a fascinating discussion between Joe Rogan and Cody Tucker, they explore how recent archaeological discoveries are reshaping our understanding of human history. Rogan points to evidence of sophisticated cultures in the Amazon that possessed advanced agricultural knowledge, citing "The Lost City of Z" as an example of a vanished civilization. He also discusses the "Richard Structure" in sub-Saharan Africa, noting its similarities to Plato's descriptions of Atlantis.

Cryptozoology and the Possibility of Undiscovered Prehistoric Creatures

Rogan and Tucker examine living fossils like the alligator gar, which has remained largely unchanged for about 100 million years. They discuss how these creatures, along with alligators, still inhabit areas like Caddo Lake and Florida, creating ecosystems that appear almost prehistoric. The conversation then shifts to widespread legends of giants, with Rogan suggesting these stories might be based on real tall humans or different hominid species, like the Denisovans.

Mythological and Religious Narratives as Historical Accounts

The discussion explores how ancient myths might be rooted in historical events. Rogan suggests that stories like the Cyclops could have been inspired by elephant skull discoveries, while flood narratives appearing across cultures might represent actual catastrophic events. Tucker adds that the "Epic of Gilgamesh," humanity's oldest known written story, includes such a flood narrative, supporting the idea that these tales might preserve historical knowledge.

Biases and Limitations in Historical Research and Academia

Rogan and Tucker examine how institutional biases can impede the acceptance of unconventional findings in archaeology. They discuss the challenges of accurately reconstructing the distant past, with Jamie noting that even the oldest preserved DNA falls far short of reaching back to the T-Rex era. The hosts also explore how incomplete fossil evidence and cultural biases can affect our understanding of ancient history.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While recent archaeological discoveries can reshape our understanding of human history, it's important to note that interpretations of these findings can be subject to debate and revision as new evidence emerges or methodologies improve.
  • The existence of sophisticated cultures in the Amazon is supported by some evidence, but the extent of their advancement and the nature of their agricultural practices may be interpreted differently by various scholars.
  • The "Lost City of Z" is a subject of speculation and exploration, and while it may represent a vanished civilization, concrete evidence is still a matter of ongoing research and debate.
  • The "Richard Structure" and its connection to Atlantis is a hypothesis that lacks strong empirical support; many scholars consider Atlantis a myth rather than a historical reality.
  • Living fossils like the alligator gar provide valuable insights into evolutionary history, but their existence does not necessarily indicate that ecosystems are "prehistoric" in the sense of being unchanged since ancient times.
  • The interpretation of legends of giants as based on real tall humans or different hominid species is speculative and not universally accepted among historians and anthropologists.
  • While some ancient myths may be rooted in historical events, it is often difficult to distinguish between mythological embellishment and historical fact.
  • The idea that the Cyclops myth was inspired by elephant skull discoveries is an interesting theory but remains speculative without direct evidence linking the two.
  • Flood narratives across cultures could represent actual events, but they could also be a common mythological motif arising from the universal human experience of local floods.
  • The "Epic of Gilgamesh" does include a flood narrative, but whether it preserves historical knowledge or is a literary device is subject to interpretation.
  • Institutional biases in archaeology are a concern, but it's also important to recognize that academic rigor and peer review are necessary to maintain the integrity of historical research.
  • While there are challenges in accurately reconstructing the distant past, interdisciplinary approaches and technological advancements continue to improve our understanding.
  • The fact that the oldest preserved DNA does not reach back to the T-Rex era is true, but it does not necessarily limit our understanding of more recent prehistoric life.
  • Incomplete fossil evidence and cultural biases can affect our understanding of ancient history, but ongoing research and methodological improvements aim to mitigate these issues.

Actionables

  • You can explore the concept of ancient civilizations by starting a themed book club that focuses on historical fiction and non-fiction works related to lost cities and ancient myths. Gather a group of friends or join an online community interested in history and select books that delve into topics like the "Lost City of Z" or the "Epic of Gilgamesh." This will allow you to discuss and analyze how these stories might intertwine with real historical events and archaeological findings, fostering a deeper appreciation for how narratives are shaped by history.
  • Enhance your understanding of prehistoric ecosystems by creating a mini-ecosystem at home using an aquarium or terrarium. Research the types of plants and animals that would have existed in ancient times, like those resembling the alligator gar, and replicate that environment on a small scale. This hands-on project can give you a tangible connection to the ecosystems discussed in the podcast and a visual representation of how certain species have remained unchanged over millions of years.
  • You can challenge your own biases and expand your perspective on history by writing a short story or creating a piece of art that reimagines a well-known myth or legend with a twist based on real archaeological evidence. For example, take the legend of giants and reinterpret it using what you know about the Denisovans or other hominid species. This creative exercise encourages you to think critically about how stories are formed and how they might be rooted in historical truths, while also engaging with the material in a personal and imaginative way.

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#2317 - Cody Tucker

Archaeology and Discovering Lost Civilizations

Cody Tucker and Joe Rogan delve into the realm of archaeology and discuss how recent discoveries are challenging our understanding of human history.

Archaeological Discoveries Challenge Beliefs About the Past

Gobekli Tepe and Malta Excavations Uncover Advanced Prehistoric Structures and Artifacts

The discovery of the ancient city of Troy, for example, once thought to be purely mythological, exemplifies how archaeological findings can reshape our views of the past. The conversation highlights how the widely held beliefs about prehistoric capabilities are often based on limited evidence and can be turned on their head by new discoveries.

Evidence of Ancient Advanced Civilizations

Explorer Accounts: Vanished Amazon Rainforest Populations and Settlements

Joe Rogan brings attention to explorer accounts suggesting that there were once sophisticated cultures with large populations in the Amazon, contrary to the notion that it was sparsely populated by simple hunter-gatherer communities. Advanced agricultural setups that coexisted with the rainforest were unlike any agriculture seen at the time elsewhere, suggesting these societies possessed advanced land management knowledge. These societies, however, seemed to have vanished, underscoring the transient nature of civilizations.

Rogan specifically cites the book "The Lost City of Z," which explores a reputedly advanced city in the Amazon that disappeared—an early European explorer reported its existence in the 1500s, but a century later, it was gone. This narrative includes references to the rich, fertile Amazonian soil known as terra preta and the devastating impact of European settlers on indigenous populations, akin to the Native American experience post-Columbus.

Anomalous Geology, Like "Richard Structure," May Align With Atlantis Descriptions

Continuing on these lines, Joe Rogan discusses how advanced the Aztec cities were and marvels at how amazed the first European explorers must have been upon encountering them. He then pivots to the "Richard Structure" in sub-Saharan Africa, pointing out its similarities to Plato's descriptions of Atlantis. Rogan emphasizes the anomaly's size, concentric rings, and geographic features that match ancient texts might indicate its true identity as the legendary civilization. Surrounding the structure are signs of enormous water erosion, as well as evidence such as pottery, which suggest human habitation and coincide with narratives of a cataclysmic flood.

Biases and Barriers Limit Investigation of Unconventional Findings

Ac ...

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Archaeology and Discovering Lost Civilizations

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Counterarguments

  • The interpretation of Gobekli Tepe and Malta as evidence of advanced prehistoric civilizations may be contested by some archaeologists who argue that "advanced" is a relative term and that these structures, while impressive, may not necessarily indicate a level of technological sophistication comparable to later historical civilizations.
  • The discovery of Troy does not necessarily validate all aspects of the Homeric epics; it merely shows that a city existed that may have inspired the stories. The extent to which the archaeological site corresponds to the legendary city remains a matter of interpretation and debate.
  • The accounts of vanished Amazon rainforest populations are based on historical records that may be exaggerated or misinterpreted. The extent of these populations and their agricultural practices is still being researched, and conclusions must be drawn carefully from a combination of archaeological evidence and historical accounts.
  • The identification of the "Richard Structure" with Atlantis is speculative and based on a selective reading of Plato's texts. Many scholars argue that Atlantis was a fictional place used by Plato to illustrate philosophical points rather than a real historical location.
  • The dismissal of discoveries by independent researchers may sometimes be justified if the research does not meet established academic standards or if the e ...

Actionables

  • You can explore local history by visiting nearby historical sites or museums to gain a deeper appreciation for the layers of human civilization in your own region. By engaging with local historians or joining guided tours, you'll uncover stories and evidence of past societies that may have been overlooked or forgotten, similar to the way larger ancient civilizations are being reevaluated.
  • Start a book club focused on historical fiction or non-fiction that delves into ancient civilizations and their mysteries. This encourages a collective exploration of different perspectives on history, much like the discussions around Troy and Atlantis, and can lead to stimulating conversations about the nature of historical evidence and the evolution of societal narratives.
  • Engage in citizen scie ...

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#2317 - Cody Tucker

Cryptozoology and the Possibility of Undiscovered Prehistoric Creatures

In a fascinating discussion, Joe Rogan and Cody Tucker consider the existence of living fossil creatures and legends of giants, hinting at the possibility that prehistoric beings might still reside in unexplored corners of our world.

Fossil Evidence Shows "Living Fossils" Like Alligator Gar Survive

Creatures Resemble Prehistoric Animals: Potential Ancient Ecosystem Remnants

Joe Rogan and Cody Tucker explore the alligator gar and sturgeon, surprised by their prehistoric characteristics that seem unchanged since the Cretaceous period, around 100 million years ago. They express amazement at how these creatures are still present today, noting that they're even hunted. The alligator gar is specifically cited as a creature that has overlapped with dinosaurs for 35 million years. Describing these ancient-looking fish, they note unusual features like nostrils and a swim bladder that functions to breathe air—traits that might explain their survival into modern times.

The presence of alligators in locations like Caddo Lake and Florida is discussed, where the ecosystem appears ancient and teeming with such creatures that resemble prehistoric animals. Tucker and Rogan both agree that alligators and alligator gars have striking resemblances to the creatures found in dinosaur books.

Widespread Legends of Giant Humanoid Creatures Across Cultures

Giant Stories Could Be Based On Real Tall Humans or Hominids

The conversation shifts to the topic of giants. Joe Rogan discusses the potential for a race of giants to have existed, pointing to stories shared across various cultures and biblical references. They delve into the possibility that tales of giants were actually based on real tall humans or different races of humans, like naturally large individuals found in Iceland.

Rogan and Tucker discuss the unearthing of Denisovans and another unnamed group with large heads, implying that variations of human-like creatures could have given rise to the legends of giants. They suggest that the phenomenal height recorded in history, such as a person who was 7'6" tall during the Civil War, supports the potential of extraordinary stature in the human genome.

Artifacts Suggesting Existence of Giants Found, Authenticity Disputed

They also mention conspiracy theories about the Smithsonian Institution hiding evidence of gia ...

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Cryptozoology and the Possibility of Undiscovered Prehistoric Creatures

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The idea that alligator gar and sturgeon have remained unchanged since the Cretaceous period may be an oversimplification, as all species undergo some evolutionary changes over time, even if their overall appearance remains similar.
  • While alligator gars have been around for millions of years, their coexistence with dinosaurs does not necessarily imply that other prehistoric creatures are still alive today.
  • The resemblance of alligators and alligator gars to prehistoric animals does not provide direct evidence of undiscovered prehistoric creatures living today.
  • Cross-cultural legends of giants may be based on exaggerations, myths, or misinterpretations of fossil remains rather than evidence of actual giant humans.
  • The existence of tall individuals in history does not confirm the existence of a race of giants; exceptional height can occur due to various genetic and environmental factors.
  • The authenticity of artifacts suggesting the existence of giants is widely disputed, and without verifiable evidence, such claims remain speculative.
  • The challenges of proving the existence of rare ...

Actionables

  • You can explore local wildlife to better understand prehistoric species by visiting natural history museums or state parks where you might find species like alligator gar and sturgeon. By observing these creatures and their habitats, you'll gain a firsthand appreciation for their ancient characteristics and how they've adapted over time.
  • Start a creative writing project inspired by the concept of giants and prehistoric creatures, using historical figures of extraordinary height or ancient human-like creatures as characters. This can be a short story, a novel, or even a series of poems that weave together the myths and facts you've learned about giants and their possible origins.
  • Engage in citizen science projects that focus on the identif ...

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#2317 - Cody Tucker

Mythological and Religious Narratives as Historical Accounts

Joe Rogan and Cody Tucker discuss the potential historical foundations underlying mythological and religious narratives, suggesting that they may have been based on real events and encoded sophisticated knowledge of ancient societies.

Myths and Legends Echo History

Rogan suggests that ancient myths, such as the story of the Cyclops, may have been inspired by real-world discoveries like elephant skulls, which have a large central hole that could be mistaken for a single giant eye socket. He also proposes that stories like Noah and the Ark, as well as other flood narratives from various cultures, could be historical depictions of catastrophic events, such as a flood that might have wiped out Atlantis.

Flood Narratives in Cultures Stem From Catastrophic Flooding

Cody Tucker agrees with Rogan, noting that the "Epic of Gilgamesh," the oldest written story known, includes a flood narrative, a recurring motif in ancient religions and cultural stories. Tucker suggests that these shared themes across cultures could stem from common catastrophic flooding events.

Symbolic Elements in Ancient Stories May Preserve Historical Knowledge

Rogan discusses how biblical stories and ancient cultural tales, such as the Sumerians' accounts of the Anunnaki, might be early peoples' attempts to communicate significant events of their times. He suggests that they could be connected to real events or entities interpreted symbolically through storytelling.

Academia Often Dismisses Mythological Accounts As Fictional

Rogan touches upon the general reluctance within academia to investigate the historical basis of ancient myths, as these narratives are often dismissed outright as fictional.

Reinterpreting Religious and Mythological Narratives Historically

Rogan speculates on the potential metaphorical meanings behind religious phrases such as "God created the universe in six days" and the Islamic reference to "72 virgins." He suggests that these might describe complex cosmological p ...

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Mythological and Religious Narratives as Historical Accounts

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The interpretation of mythological creatures, such as the Cyclops, being inspired by elephant skulls is speculative and not universally accepted among scholars.
  • The idea that Noah's Ark or other flood narratives are historical accounts of real events like the destruction of Atlantis is not supported by conclusive archaeological evidence.
  • While flood narratives are common across cultures, they may also reflect a shared human experience with local floods rather than a single global event.
  • Symbolic elements in ancient stories may not always have a direct historical basis and could be purely mythological or allegorical in nature.
  • Academia does not dismiss mythological accounts as purely fictional; many scholars study these narratives to understand the cultures that created them, though they may not accept them as literal historical accounts.
  • Interpreting religious phrases such as "God created the universe in six days" or "72 virgins" as descriptions of cosmological phenomena is a modern reinterpretation that may not align with the original intent or understanding of these texts.
  • The suggestion that mythological narratives represent accumulated memories of ancient event ...

Actionables

  • You can explore the origins of local myths by visiting nearby historical sites and museums to see if you can draw parallels to natural phenomena. For instance, if there's a legend about a giant in your area, research the local geography and fossil records to see if there might be a natural explanation, like unusual rock formations or prehistoric bones that could have been misinterpreted by ancient people.
  • Start a creative writing project where you reinterpret a well-known myth or religious story using modern scientific concepts. For example, take the story of Noah's Ark and write a short story that explains the event through the lens of climate change and rising sea levels, providing a contemporary understanding of ancient flood narratives.
  • Engage in a thought experiment where you ...

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#2317 - Cody Tucker

Biases and Limitations in Historical Research and Academia

Cody Tucker and Joe Rogan explore the biases and limitations that affect the study of history and how these can hinder the acceptance of unconventional findings and the understanding of the distant past.

Institutional Biases Affect Acceptance of Unconventional History

Rogan and Tucker suggest that there is reluctance within the academic community to acknowledge findings that could upend established narratives. These professionals may fear for their reputations or funding and, as a result, might not want to admit that they could have overlooked something significant—especially if it was discovered by an amateur.

Resistance to Contradictory Evidence

There are accusations that the academic community might suppress evidence which contradicts mainstream historical accounts. Rogan raises the hypothetical example of the discovery of a 10-foot human and questions whether archaeologists or scientists would acknowledge it, suggesting institutional bias. He also humorously imagines the dire fate of someone who finds proof of giants, remarking that scientists might try to "run you off the road" as a reflection of the belief that such evidence could be deliberately obscured.

The Inherent Challenges Of Reconstructing the Distant Past

Skepticism about the feasibility of accurately interpreting the distant past arises in their discussion. Jamie points out that the oldest preserved DNA on record is a far cry from the era of the T-Rex, discrediting the idea of engineering dinosaurs from ancient DNA.

Time and Context Hinder Understanding History

The hosts also consider how artistic interpretations can drastically distort our perception of ancient creatures, such as dinosaurs, and that cultural biases could affect the reconstruction of past organisms. The Cyclops myth, for instance, might have stemmed from misinterpretations of elephant skulls. This idea suggests how such myths can steer the narrative and potentially misguide scientific understanding.

Rogan and Tucker discuss how museum displays of dinosaur skeletons are often not composed entirely of real bones due ...

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Biases and Limitations in Historical Research and Academia

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Academic rigor and peer review processes are designed to minimize biases and ensure that unconventional findings are scrutinized before acceptance, which is a necessary part of scientific inquiry.
  • The suppression of evidence is a serious accusation and would require substantial proof; many instances of unconventional findings have been published and discussed openly in academic circles.
  • While there are inherent challenges in reconstructing the distant past, interdisciplinary approaches and advancements in technology have significantly improved our ability to interpret historical and prehistorical evidence.
  • The feasibility of engineering dinosaurs from ancient DNA is not a central concern for most paleontologists, who focus on understanding the past rather than recreating it.
  • Artistic interpretations are often based on the best available scientific evidence, and while they can be influenced by cultural biases, they are regularly updated to reflect new discoveries and theories.
  • Myths like the Cyclops may have multiple origins, and while misinterpreted fossils could contribute, it's also possible that such myths are purely imaginative creations or have other explanations.
  • Museums often use casts of dinosaur skeletons to protect the original fossils and to complete displays when full skeletons are not available, but this practice is typically transparent and does not necessarily lead to skepticism.
  • The difficulty in ...

Actionables

  • You can explore the reliability of historical narratives by comparing different sources on the same event. Start with a well-known historical event and gather information from various textbooks, documentaries, and online articles. Note the discrepancies and commonalities to understand how narratives are shaped and how they might differ from the actual events.
  • Enhance your critical thinking by creating a "myth-buster" journal where you document and investigate common myths or historical interpretations. Whenever you come across a myth or a historical claim, research its origins, look for scientific explanations, and write down your findings. This practice will help you develop a habit of questioning and seeking evidence.
  • Develop a deeper apprecia ...

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