Podcasts > The Joe Rogan Experience > #2283 - Billy Corgan

#2283 - Billy Corgan

By Joe Rogan

In this episode of The Joe Rogan Experience, Billy Corgan shares his perspectives on the modern music industry and the creative process behind musicianship. Corgan delves into the industry's tendency to prioritize marketability over unique artistry, often stifling musicians' authentic visions.

He also explores the unique psychology and specialized skillsets of musicians. Corgan discusses influential artists and bands, from virtuosos like Jimi Hendrix to groundbreaking acts like Nirvana. The conversation emphasizes the importance of authenticity, uniqueness, and personal experiences in crafting impactful art that resonates with audiences across generations.

#2283 - Billy Corgan

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#2283 - Billy Corgan

1-Page Summary

Music Industry: Influence and Challenges For Artists

Billy Corgan criticizes the music industry for favoring marketability over unique artistry, suppressing artists' authentic vision. He notes being asked to alter his style and persona for commercial interests, a hindrance the industry sees in artists' true selves.

Despite constraints, musicians continuously assert their creative vision without compromising authenticity. According to Corgan, the industry fails to perceive art as musicians do - as collective magic innate in band dynamics versus a mere commodity. He argues maintaining uniqueness is crucial, as artists like Aerosmith took control of their direction despite industry pressures.

The Creative Process and Unique Psychology of Musicians

Corgan reveals musicians often unconsciously embed deeper meanings and messages in their work, only realizing their full intent after an altered experience. He theorizes musicians' frequent bipolarity enhances creativity through brain hemisphere imbalances, which drugs like cocaine aim to normalize.

Musicians face specialized skills from singing technique to controlled vocal fury. Proper warmups and non-traditional styles define signature sounds requiring expertise. Corgan learned techniques from rock-aware vocal coaches.

Specific Influential Musicians, Bands, and Their Impact

Kurt Cobain's vocals embodied his generation's disaffection. Nirvana's success paved the way for alternative/grunge bands to go mainstream.

The Monkees pioneered manufactured music acts created by corporations rather than forming organically, foreshadowing today's industry trajectory.

Virtuosos like Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen redefined the guitar through masterful technique stunning peers like Eric Clapton. Their influential styles set new benchmarks in guitar prowess.

Authenticity, Uniqueness, and Personal Experience in Art

Authentic artistic voices often clash with commercial interests. Corgan chose to maintain authenticity after witnessing his musician father's industry struggles and pressures for mob ties.

Despite professional advice to follow audience demands, visionary artists defying norms can have enduring impact. Corgan sees his band's resurgence as testament to their identity in an inauthentic world.

Personal hardships shape creative expression. Corgan's tumultuous childhood likely influenced his worldview and music, as substance abuse affected Stevie Ray Vaughan's art.

Great art evokes universal emotions by expressing authentic personal experiences Corgan highlights artists' potential to provoke powerful emotions and connect across generations through raw honesty.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Musicians often develop specialized skills in singing, encompassing techniques like breath control, pitch accuracy, and vocal range expansion. Controlled vocal fury involves the ability to convey intense emotions and power through vocals while maintaining precision and control. These skills are honed through practice, vocal training, and experimentation with different vocal styles. Mastery of these techniques allows musicians to create signature sounds and deliver impactful performances.

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#2283 - Billy Corgan

Music Industry: Influence and Challenges For Artists

Billy Corgan and Joe Rogan discuss the complex relationship between artists and the music industry, emphasizing the struggle for creative control and authenticity.

Music Industry Stifles Artists' Vision

Billy Corgan scrutinizes the music industry for favoring marketable control over unique artistry, noting how it can suppress an artist's innate vision.

Industry Prioritizes Marketability Over Authenticity and Expression

Corgan explains that the industry does not understand why musicians cannot conform to a standard business model, like baking cookies, where product alterations meet customer demand. He expresses frustration with the industry, which sees an artist's authenticity as inconvenient to their profit-driven blueprint, treating an authentic persona as a problem that requires tempering.

Artists Told To "Temper" Styles for Commercial Success

Addressing industry pressures, Corgan recounts being asked to modify his music and public image to align with commercial aspirations. Conversation with Rogan indicates that bands like Aerosmith and Van Halen may have altered their original styles under similar pressures.

Industry Views Artist's Authentic Persona as "Inconvenient Problem" to Their Model

Corgan shares that his true self is considered a hindrance to the industry's business mode. Corgan and Rogan note alterations made by artists such as Aerosmith, possibly due to industry expectations for constant reinvention aimed at commercial viability.

Artists Navigate the Gap Between Creativity and Industry Interests

Despite industry constraints, artists continuously strive to assert their creative vision without sacrificing authenticity.

Musicians Intuitively Understand Art Differently Than the Industry

Corgan posits that the industry fails to grasp art as musicians do. There's a fundamental discrepancy in perception; the industry sees art as a commodity, whereas mus ...

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Music Industry: Influence and Challenges For Artists

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Billy Corgan is a musician known for being the lead singer of the band The Smashing Pumpkins. Joe Rogan is a popular podcaster and comedian who often interviews guests on various topics. Aerosmith and Van Halen are iconic rock bands with long histories in the music industry. Sturgill Simpson is a country music artist known for blending traditional country sounds with modern influences.
  • Art being seen as a commodity by the industry means it is viewed primarily for its commercial value and marketability. On the other hand, artists often perceive art as a product of collective magic innate in band dynamics, emphasizing the unique creative synergy and connection among band members. This contrast highlights the differing perspectives on the purpose and essence of art between the industry and artists themselves. The industry's focus on commodifying art can sometimes clash with artists' belief in the organic, collaborative, and almost mystical process of creating music within a band.
  • Artists often face pressure from the music industry to tailor their music and image for commercial success, potentially compromising their artistic vis ...

Counterarguments

  • The music industry also provides necessary resources and infrastructure that can help artists reach a wider audience and achieve commercial success.
  • Some artists may willingly adapt their style to meet market demands as a strategic choice to ensure their livelihood and fund their creative endeavors.
  • The industry's focus on marketability can be seen as a response to consumer demand, aiming to provide music that resonates with the largest possible audience.
  • Not all artists experience the music industry as stifling; some find collaborative opportunities with labels and producers that enhance their creative output.
  • The pressure to maintain a consistent image or sound can sometimes lead to artistic growth and the discovery of new, successful avenues for expression.
  • The music industry's influence can act as a quality filter, ensuring that the music that reaches the masses meets certain production and entertainment standards.
  • Artists often have the option to remain ind ...

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#2283 - Billy Corgan

The Creative Process and Unique Psychology of Musicians

Musicians often tap into deep, subconscious layers of expression, and their neurological makeup can be distinct from those in other professions. Billy Corgan, of The Smashing Pumpkins, sheds light on these aspects of a musician's life, from creative processes to brain chemistry.

Musicians' Creative Process Involves Subconscious Expression Layers

Billy Corgan shares that musicians often unconsciously integrate ideas and messages into their work. He recalls how, when high, he was able to hear his songs as if someone else were singing them and detected messages he hadn't realized he was including. This subconscious ability to embed messages became a conscious tool for Corgan once he noticed it, allowing him to deliberately plant certain themes in his music.

Corgan discovered that songs he thought were about superficial topics often had deeper, subconscious roots, such as abandonment issues related to his mother, which became apparent only after experiencing his music in an altered state. This unintentional depth resonated more with listeners than the meanings he initially assigned to his songs.

He also discusses how artists have a natural, untaught ability to emotionally engage listeners through beats, chords, melodies, and lyrics, suggesting a subconscious layer to their creative process. Rogan relates this to how music can guide psychedelic experiences, illustrating the intrinsic connection between music and deeper states of consciousness.

Neurology and Psychology of Musicians Differ From Others

Musicians' Bipolarity and Brain Chemistry Boost Artistic Ability

Musicians, Corgan posits, frequently exhibit bipolarity, which can enhance their creative output. He speculates that musicians become successful partly because they have developed one hemisphere of their brain more substantially, resulting in a unique imbalance that can contribute to their artistry. Drugs like cocaine are sometimes used by musicians with bipolarity to alleviate feelings of imbalance and achieve a sense of normalcy.

Corgan shares anecdotes of bipolar musicians who have felt that cocaine helps their brain hemispheres communicate more effectively. He theorizes that successful musicians might represent the "graduating class of bipolarity," acknowledging that their brain differences contribute to their artistic capabilities and the consistent "bad behavior" observed among musicians.

Skills and Training in Singing and Playing Instruments

Corgan delves into the specialized skills and physical training required by m ...

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The Creative Process and Unique Psychology of Musicians

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While subconscious integration of ideas in music is possible, it is not exclusive to musicians and can be found in other forms of art and creative expression.
  • The resonance of unintentional depth in music with listeners might also be due to the listeners' own projections and interpretations, not just the subconscious messages of the musician.
  • The natural ability to emotionally engage through music is not limited to musicians; other artists, such as writers, painters, and actors, also have the capacity to evoke strong emotional responses.
  • The connection between music and deeper consciousness is not fully understood and may not be as direct as suggested; other factors like cultural context and personal experiences also play significant roles.
  • The claim that musicians often exhibit bipolarity and that it enhances creativity could be seen as an oversimplification and stigmatization of mental health issues; not all creative individuals have bipolar disorder, and not all individuals with bipolar disorder are creative.
  • The use of cocaine or other drugs to alleviate imbalances or enhance brain communication is controversial and can be harmful; it is not a recommended or safe method for managing bipolar disorder or enhancing creativity.
  • Singing, like any skill, requires practice and train ...

Actionables

  • Explore your subconscious creativity by keeping a dream journal and using it as inspiration for artistic projects. When you wake up, jot down any dreams or fragments of dreams you remember. Over time, you may start to see patterns or themes that could inspire a piece of music, a painting, or a story, tapping into the same subconscious well that musicians do.
  • Develop your emotional expression through music by creating a playlist that aligns with different moods or emotions you want to explore. Listen to these playlists during various activities or when you're feeling a particular way to deepen your connection with those emotions. This can help you understand how music influences your feelings and can be a stepping stone to creating your own music that resonates emotionally with others.
  • Enhance your vocal abilities by practicing singing exercises daily ...

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#2283 - Billy Corgan

Specific Influential Musicians, Bands, and Their Impact

Billy Corgan, Joe Rogan, and others look at the remarkable influence certain bands and musicians have had on the music industry and how they continue to inspire generations.

Kurt Cobain and Nirvana's Impact on Music Landscape

Kurt Cobain left an indelible mark on music, embodying the spirit and struggles of Generation X.

Cobain's Vocals and Songwriting Embodied His Generation's Disaffection

Billy Corgan comments on the quality of Cobain's voice, noting that when Cobain sang, it sounded like the collective howl of their generation, connecting deeply with the experiences of latchkey kids. Cobain's singing conveyed a unique blend of anger and sorrow that resonated with the disaffected youth.

Nirvana's Success Paved the Way for Alternative and Grunge Acts to Achieve Mainstream Success

Corgan discusses the impact of Nirvana's "Nevermind" album, describing its release as a pivotal moment when alternative and grunge music broke through to the mainstream, facilitating the rise of many bands from their generation.

Monkees as a Template for Later Corporate-Manufactured Bands

The Monkees are acknowledged as pioneers in the emergence of manufactured music acts, predicting the contemporary music industry's trajectory.

Monkees: First Major Band Created by Corporation, Not Organically

Joe Rogan and Billy Corgan discuss the Monkees as one of the first major bands created by a corporation rather than forming organically. Corgan suggests that the Monkees are more relevant today, serving as a model for the music industry's evolution toward "plastic music."

Monkees' Success Predicted Rise of Manufactured Music Acts

Corgan implies that the success of the Monkees foreshadowed the rise of manufactured music acts, with authenticity becoming less critical in an industry where the idea of a corporately constructed band is no longer surprising.

Musicians Who Redefined Their Instruments: Hendrix & Van Halen

Jimi Hendrix and Eddie Van Halen are celebrated as virtuosos who transformed the way the guitar is played and set new benchmarks for technical expertise.

Virtuosic Guitarists' Technical Mastery Stunned and Inspired Musicians

Corgan mentions interviewing Steve Vai and expresses awe at the technical abilities of guitarists like Vai, Van Halen, and Hendrix. He sh ...

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Specific Influential Musicians, Bands, and Their Impact

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • Explore the impact of iconic musicians by creating a personal playlist that traces the evolution of a music genre. Start with the artists mentioned, like Nirvana and Jimi Hendrix, and then add tracks from contemporary artists who cite them as influences. This will help you hear the progression of sound and technique over time and understand the lasting legacy of these musicians.
  • Develop your own creative skill by practicing "emotional mimicry." Choose a song by one of the artists, like Kurt Cobain, and try to capture the emotion in a different medium, such as writing, painting, or even cooking. This exercise can help you appreciate the emotional depth that great artists convey and improve your ability to express feelings in your own work.
  • Foster a deeper appreciation for musical innovation by hosting a listening party with friends where you compare and ...

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#2283 - Billy Corgan

Authenticity, Uniqueness, and Personal Experience in Art

Billy Corgan shares insights into the tension between authenticity and commercialism in the art world, drawing on his personal experiences to describe how artists operate within this complex space, and Joe Rogan contributes to the discourse on how non-creatives influence art.

Authentic Artistic Voices Often Clash With Commercial Interests

In the pursuit of celebrating valuable and authentic contributors to American culture, Billy Corgan discusses his plan to start a podcast, noting the current focus on influencers rather than genuine artistry. He shares the story of his father, a musician with unfulfilled ambitions, illustrating the conflict between personal aspirations and external pressures. Corgan recounts the necessity of signing contracts with the mob in Chicago's music scene, showcasing an extreme case where commercial interests stifled artist independence and integrity.

Corgan, contrasting with artists who have built a mythical status within subcultures, admires the sustained impact of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards' genuine accomplishments. Despite music industry professionals advising him to prioritize audience demand, Corgan chose to maintain authenticity, informed by witnessing his father's own struggle in the industry. Although the commercial success often defines an artist's value, Corgan finds significance in his unique voice.

Visionary Artists Defying Industry Pressure Have Enduring Impact

Corgan criticizes the music industry’s approach, which fails to support successful artists in continued innovation. He remarks on the struggle for authenticity, noting Bruce Springsteen's candidness about his public persona versus his true self.

Corgan sees the resurgence of his band, The Smashing Pumpkins, as a testament to their authentic identity in an increasingly inauthentic world. As someone who has doubled down on what he represents despite industry pressure, Corgan has noted improvements in his business. He suggests that emerging changes in the music business might enable more direct peer-to-peer commerce, empowering visionary artists to have a more enduring impact without succumbing to industry norms.

Artists' Struggles Shape Creative Expression

Discussing non-creatives in show business, Joe Rogan and Corgan express dissatisfaction with the money-driven influence on the creative process. Corgan highlights the difficulty of navigating an identity between public expectation and personal evolution, exemplified by his band's trials and enduring identity, which underscore the impact of staying authentic despite external pressures.

Corgan's complicated relationship with his father, involving substance abuse, violence, and illegal activities, provided a tumultuous background that likely shap ...

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Authenticity, Uniqueness, and Personal Experience in Art

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Authenticity in art is subjective and can be perceived differently by various audiences; what is authentic to one may not be to another.
  • Commercial interests can sometimes enhance art by providing the resources necessary for production and distribution, allowing it to reach a wider audience.
  • The music industry's focus on commercial success is not inherently negative, as it can help sustain artists financially and enable them to continue their work.
  • The idea that only artists who defy industry pressure have an enduring impact is debatable; many commercially successful artists have also left lasting legacies.
  • The resurgence of a band like The Smashing Pumpkins could be attributed to nostalgia and the cyclical nature of music trends, not solely to their authenticity.
  • The influence of non-creatives in the industry can bring a different perspective that may benefit the creative process, leading to a more diverse and rich artistic output.
  • Personal struggles are not a prerequisite for creating impactful art; ar ...

Actionables

  • You can explore your authenticity by starting a daily "creative authenticity journal" where you reflect on and write about your true feelings, thoughts, and aspirations without any filter or concern for external validation. This practice can help you identify what is genuinely important to you and can serve as a guide for making decisions that align with your authentic self. For example, if you're a musician, use the journal to explore new sounds that resonate with you personally, rather than what you think will sell.
  • Develop a personal "authenticity audit" for your creative projects by listing out the reasons behind your creative choices and identifying which ones are driven by personal passion versus external pressures or trends. This can help you make more conscious decisions that favor your authentic voice. For instance, if you're an aspiring writer, audit your story themes or character developments to ensure they're rooted in your unique perspective and not just mirroring popular genres or market demands.
  • Create a "diverse audience feedback loop" by ...

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