#2242 - Bert Sorin
In this episode, Joe Rogan and Bert Sorin explore the history of catch wrestling, a unique style that influenced modern MMA. They recount the astonishing feats of legendary strongmen who excelled through intense training regimens. The conversation shifts to finding balance between hyper-specialization and pursuing a breadth of interests.
Rogan and Sorin discuss the pros and cons of total dedication versus being a generalist who excels across disciplines. They touch on outdoor activities like hunting and emphasize the importance of perspective: Rather than complete singularity, individuals should seek paths allowing personal growth in diverse areas.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Dec 12, 2024 episode of the The Joe Rogan Experience
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1-Page Summary
The history and techniques of old-school strength and combat sports
Joe Rogan and Bert Sorin explore the legacy of catch wrestling and its influence on modern MMA, as well as the awe-inspiring feats of strongmen.
Catch Wrestling's Impact
- Farmer Burns and Karl Gotch were pioneers known for innovative routines combining pins and submissions.
- Josh Barnett incorporated catch wrestling techniques like the kimura lock into MMA.
Legendary Strongmen Feats
- Figures like Cleve Dean and Judd Logan excelled into old age through intense training.
- Rogan and Sorin recount astonishing feats like Bill Kazmaier's 900+ lbs Silver Dollar deadlift.
The pursuit of excellence and personal growth
Rogan and Sorin discuss the sacrifices of becoming an elite specialist versus maintaining balance across pursuits.
Challenges of Specialization
- Hyper-focusing risks imbalance, injuries, and financial struggles, as Sorin notes in strength sports.
- Rogan cites examples like developing tendonitis from repetitive training.
The 90% Mindset
- Sorin introduces the "90% guy" who excels across domains without being the absolute best in one.
- They contrast this with the "rabbit hole" mentality of total specialization at the cost of life balance.
Outdoor activities and wild game
Joe Rogan, Bert Sorin, and Steve Rinella delve into hunting practices and cooking wild harvests.
Enhancing Wild Game Flavor
- Rogan suggests marinating in buttermilk or soda to tenderize and boost taste.
- They value utilizing all parts of the animal, including organ meats.
The Thrill of the Hunt
- Sorin recounts his "line in the sand" Cape buffalo hunt, donating meat to local villages.
- Ethical hunting's positive community impact is emphasized.
The importance of balance and perspective
The conversation highlights the value of maintaining a healthy balance between dedicated pursuits and other life experiences.
The Specialist vs Generalist Mindset
- Rogan notes hyper-specialization's downsides, like his overuse archery injury.
- Sorin presents the "90% guy" who excels broadly rather than singularly.
Diversifying Interests
- Sorin enjoys various physical activities beyond his specialty.
- Judd Logan's respected versatility as athlete and coach is praised.
- Rogan concludes individuals should choose paths allowing balanced personal growth.
1-Page Summary
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- While Farmer Burns and Karl Gotch were indeed pioneers, catch wrestling's influence on modern MMA is also due to the contributions of many other wrestlers and martial artists who helped evolve the sport.
- Josh Barnett's use of catch wrestling techniques is notable, but it's important to recognize that MMA has evolved through the integration of various martial arts, not just catch wrestling.
- The feats of strongmen like Cleve Dean and Judd Logan are impressive, but it's also important to acknowledge the role of genetics, nutrition, and modern training methods in achieving such feats.
- Bill Kazmaier's deadlift was remarkable, but there are other strongmen who have also lifted impressive weights, and records continue to be broken as the sport evolves.
- Hyper-focusing in specialization does have risks, but for some individuals, the rewards of achieving the highest levels of success in their field can outweigh these risks.
- The "90% guy" concept is valuable, but some individuals may find deep satisfaction and purpose in striving to be the absolute best in a single domain, even at the cost of balance.
- Marinating wild game can enhance flavor, but there are various methods and preferences for preparing game, and some purists might argue for simpler preparations to appreciate the natural flavors.
- Ethical hunting practices are important, but the positive impact on local communities can vary, and there are differing views on the role of hunting in conservation and community support.
- While maintaining a healthy balance is generally advisable, some individuals may consciously choose to prioritize their passions over a more balanced lifestyle, finding fulfillment in their dedication.
- Diversifying interests can lead to personal growth, but for some, a deep focus on a single interest can also lead to significant contributions to a field and personal satisfaction.
- Judd Logan's versatility is commendable, but specialization in coaching or athletics can also lead to exceptional outcomes and should not be undervalued.
Actionables
- You can explore the versatility of physical training by incorporating elements from different disciplines into your workout routine, such as adding yoga to improve flexibility if you primarily lift weights, or trying out basic wrestling drills to enhance coordination and functional strength.
- By diversifying your physical activities, you reduce the risk of overuse injuries and can develop a more balanced physique. For example, if you usually run for cardio, try swimming or cycling to engage different muscle groups and give your joints a break from the repetitive impact.
- Experiment with cooking by using unconventional tenderizing methods for meat, like marinating tougher cuts in pineapple juice or kiwi puree, which contain natural enzymes that break down proteins.
- This approach not only adds unique flavors to your dishes but also allows you to explore the culinary potential of less popular cuts of meat. For instance, you could tenderize a flank steak with a kiwi puree marinade before grilling, creating a dish that's both flavorful and more economical.
- Broaden your knowledge and appreciation for various fields by dedicating a small portion of your week to learning something outside of your primary interest, such as taking a free online course on a subject you know little about or attending a community workshop on a practical skill like basic car maintenance or gardening.
- This habit encourages personal growth and can lead to unexpected passions or useful skills. For example, spending an hour each week on a gardening tutorial might not only give you the satisfaction of growing your own herbs but also provide a relaxing break from your usual routine.
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The history and techniques of old-school strength and combat sports
Joe Rogan and Bert Sorin explore the legacy of catch wrestling and its profound impact on modern MMA, as well as the awe-inspiring feats and resilience of strongman legends.
The fascinating legacy of catch wrestling and its influence on modern martial arts
Catch wrestling, with its storied past and legendary practitioners, has left an indelible mark on today's combat sports scene.
Legendary catch wrestling figures like Farmer Burns and Karl Gotch pioneered innovative strength and conditioning routines
Joe Rogan mentions Farmer Burns as a significant figure in catch wrestling, known not just for his grappling prowess but also for stunts like hanging by his neck from a tree, displaying incredible neck strength. Karl Gotch, another cornerstone of catch wrestling, was famous for his intense strength and conditioning routines. Rogan recalls that Gotch would not even train you until you passed his gauntlet of physical challenges.
Catch wrestling involved a unique combination of pinning and submission techniques, differing from the modern ruleset of wrestling
Rogan explains that catch wrestling, or "catch as catch can," was a form of wrestling that allowed both pins and submissions, where competitors could win by securing a tap. This combination of techniques starkly differed from today's wrestling rulesets.
Prominent MMA fighters like Josh Barnett have incorporated catch wrestling into their grappling arsenal
Josh Barnett, a protégé of Karl Gotch, famously applied catch wrestling techniques in MMA, successfully using moves like the kimura or Americana (double wrist lock) against seasoned Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belts. Rogan notes how Barnett tapped out these opponents, demonstrating catch wrestling's effectiveness within his grappling approach.
The physical prowess and longevity of mythical strongman figures
Anecdotes about historic strongmen exhibit their physical might and the enduring appeal of their feats.
Individuals like Cleve Dean and Judd Logan excelled in strength sports well into their later years through intense, specialized training
Legendary figures in the strength world exhibited staggering endurance and capacity, defying the common expectations of physical decline with age. They maintain their prowess through dedicated and rigorous training regimens.
These athletes displayed astonishing ...
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The history and techniques of old-school strength and combat sports
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- While catch wrestling has influenced modern martial arts, it is one of many combat sports that have contributed to the development of MMA, alongside others like Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, and Judo.
- The strength and conditioning routines of Farmer Burns and Karl Gotch were indeed innovative, but it's important to recognize that they were part of a broader historical context where many athletes were experimenting with different training methods.
- The ruleset of catch wrestling is distinct, but it's worth noting that other wrestling styles, both historical and contemporary, also incorporate a mix of pinning and submission techniques.
- Josh Barnett's success with catch wrestling techniques in MMA is notable, but it doesn't necessarily prove the superiority of catch wrestling over other grappling arts, as success in MMA often depends on a well-rounded skill set and strategy.
- The longevity of strongmen like Cleve Dean and Judd ...
Actionables
- You can incorporate catch wrestling drills into your fitness routine to enhance your grappling skills and overall body strength. Start by learning basic catch wrestling holds and maneuvers through online tutorials or local martial arts classes, then set aside two days a week to practice these techniques, focusing on control and fluidity of movement. This can improve your functional strength and give you a new perspective on leverage and body mechanics.
- Experiment with old-school strongman exercises to build functional strength and endurance. Research the training methods of historical strongmen and integrate exercises like farmer's walks, sandbag lifts, and thick-bar deadlifts into your workout regimen. These exercises not only honor the legacy of strongmen but also contribute to your own physical resilience and strength.
- Create a personal challenge to perform a f ...
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The pursuit of excellence and personal growth in physical endeavors
Joe Rogan and Bert Sorin explore the trade-offs and challenges that come with the quest for mastery in physical skills and discuss the importance of self-awareness and setting appropriate goals to avoid burnout or health issues.
The trade-offs and challenges of becoming a true master in a particular physical skill
Athletes committed to highly specialized sports like the shot put, discus, hammer, and javelin, embark on a path that may lack financial rewards, comments guest Bert Sorin, exemplifying the sacrifice and dedication needed in pursuing such specialized athletic skills. Sorin himself speaks from experience about the trade-offs in his strength and power sport, where cardio might undermine strength, thus he avoids non-aligned training methods like CrossFit. Rogan chimes in, highlighting that extreme focus still may not guarantee one becoming the best, especially against naturally superior talents such as Jon Jones or Mike Tyson in their prime.
Sorin further describes the elite athlete's life of intense specialization, which requires prioritizing rest and eating over a diversified routine, trade-offs that can cost a more balanced lifestyle. Common chronic injuries among athletes, especially in high-impact sports, underscore the physical toll of pushing the body to its limits. Rogan, for instance, mentions developing tendonitis from repetitive archery, and he discusses the serious injuries, including surgeries, that are almost a rite of passage for martial artists like John Jones.
The importance of self-awareness and setting appropriate goals
Rogan touches upon the wrestling culture, known for its embrace of extreme training and hardships. Here, physical endeavors also involve sacrifices in other life domains—a pattern seen in dedicated athletes from all spheres, such as Bert Sorin himself, who at 22, needed surgery due to his commitments.
The conversation shifts to the balance between being the 'rabbit hole guy'— ...
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The pursuit of excellence and personal growth in physical endeavors
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Clarifications
- The shot put, discus, hammer, and javelin are considered highly specialized sports within the realm of track and field athletics. Athletes who compete in these events require specific technical skills and training due to the unique nature of each discipline. These events focus on throwing objects of different weights and shapes for distance, requiring athletes to develop strength, speed, and precision in their movements. Mastery in these events often involves years of dedicated practice and coaching to achieve peak performance levels.
- Chronic injuries in high-impact sports are long-term physical issues that result from repetitive stress on the body. These injuries often develop gradually over time and can affect areas like joints, tendons, and muscles. High-impact sports, which involve intense and forceful movements like jumping, running, or sudden stops, put significant strain on the body, increasing the risk of chronic injuries. Common examples include stress fractures, tendonitis, and cartilage damage.
- Jon Jones and Mike Tyson are renowned athletes in their respective sports, known for their exceptional talent and dominance. Jon Jones is a mixed martial artist who has achieved great success in the UFC, showcasing a unique blend of skills and athleticism. Mike Tyson is a former heavyweight boxing champion famous for his power, speed, and aggressive fighting style. Their natural abilities and achievements have solidified their status as legends in the world of combat sports.
- Tendonitis from repetitive archery is a condition where the tendons in the arm, particularly the elbow, become inflamed due to the repetitive motion of drawing and releasing a bowstring during archery practice. This overuse injury is common among archers and can cause pain, swelling, and limited range of motion in the affected arm. Proper technique, equipment adjustments, and adequate rest are essential in preventing and managing archery-related tendonitis.
- The 'rabbit hole guy' is someone who deeply specializes in a single area, often sacrificing breadth for depth in their skills. On the other hand, the '90% guy' is more versatile ...
Actionables
- You can create a balanced training routine by incorporating activities that address different aspects of fitness, such as strength, flexibility, and cardiovascular health. Start by scheduling your week with a variety of exercises that complement each other, like yoga for flexibility, weightlifting for strength, and swimming for cardio. This approach helps prevent overuse injuries and maintains a well-rounded physical condition.
- Develop a personal growth plan that includes time for rest and hobbies outside your main pursuit. Dedicate a day each week to engage in activities unrelated to your primary focus, whether it's reading, painting, or simply going for a walk. This can help maintain mental health and prevent burnout, ensuring you have the energy to continue pursuing your goals with vigor.
- Seek out a mentor or coach who embodies a balanced approach ...
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Outdoor activities, hunting, and cooking wild game
Joe Rogan and guests Bert Sorin and Steve Rinella dive into the intricate world of hunting and the joys of cooking and consuming wild game, highlighting the challenge, ethics, and culinary practices involved.
Relishing the freshness and flavor of harvested wild meat
Rogan and Sorin discuss various methods of enhancing the taste of wild game.
Techniques like marinating in buttermilk or Coca-Cola can tenderize and enhance the taste of wild game
Rogan mentions a cook named Guga who marinated a steak in buttermilk for a week, resulting in tender, flavorful meat. He suggests the same technique works wonders on duck by drawing out unwanted flavors. Sorin elaborates on his culinary adventures, recounting how marinating pig backstraps in Coca-Cola before grilling them with butter and bacon elevates the dish.
Responsibly utilizing every part of an animal, including organ meats and offal, aligns with traditional values of minimizing waste
Rogan and Sorin talk about the full utilization of the animal, noting that nothing goes to waste in Africa; even the guts are cleaned and consumed. They discuss their appreciation for various organ meats and their cooking methods, such as wrapping meat in caul fat for grilling. Rogan also states that he has whitetail deer in his freezer and savors the tenderloins marinated in butter and garlic, while Sorin notes that deer backstrap is a favorite dish for his children.
The thrill and challenges of hunting dangerous game
The conversation shifts to the adrenaline and ethics of hunting formidable animals.
The Cape buffalo hunt in Africa represented a personal "line in the sand" for the guest, highlighting the risks and rewards of pursuing such an undertaking
Sorin recounts his harrowing Cape buffalo hunting experience in Africa, which tested his limits and represented a "line in the sand" for him regarding dangerous game. He notes the meat from the buffalo was gratefully received by local villagers, putting into context the positive impact that hunting can have on communities.
Donating the harves ...
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Outdoor activities, hunting, and cooking wild game
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Clarifications
- Marinating wild game in buttermilk or Coca-Cola is a technique used to tenderize the meat and enhance its flavor. The acidity in buttermilk helps break down proteins, making the meat more tender. Coca-Cola can add sweetness and caramelization when used as a marinade, creating a unique flavor profile for the wild game. These methods are popular among hunters and cooks for improving the taste and texture of game meat.
- Utilizing organ meats and offal involves using parts of an animal that are not typically consumed as muscle meat. These parts include organs like liver, heart, kidneys, and other offal such as tripe (stomach lining) and sweetbreads (thymus or pancreas). They are valued for their unique flavors, nutritional benefits, and cultural significance in various cuisines worldwide. Cooking techniques for organ meats and offal vary widely, with some requiring specific preparation methods to enhance their taste and texture.
- The Cape buffalo is one of the most dangerous animals to hunt in Africa due to its size, strength, and unpredictable nature. Hunting Cape buffalo is considered a challenging and risky endeavor that requires skill, experience, and careful planning. The experience of hunting Cape buffalo often involves tracking the animal on foot in its natural habitat, which adds to the intensity and excitement of the hunt. Hunters who pursue Cape buffalo must be prepared for the physical demands and potential dangers associated with facing such a formidable and resilient species.
- Flow states while hunting involve a mental state of intense focus and immersion in the hunting experience, where hunters feel fully absorbed and in sync with their actions and surroundings. This heightened state of concentration can enhance performance, decision-making, and overall hunting success. Achieving a flow state while hun ...
Counterarguments
- Marinating techniques like buttermilk or Coca-Cola may not be universally accepted as the best methods for enhancing the taste of wild game, as some purists argue that they can mask the natural flavors of the meat.
- The full utilization of an animal, while ethical and traditional, may not be practical or appealing to everyone, and some people may lack the knowledge or desire to prepare and consume organ meats and offal.
- Hunting dangerous game raises ethical concerns for some individuals who may question the necessity and morality of pursuing animals that can pose a significant risk to the hunter.
- While donating meat to local communities can be seen as a positive impact of hunting, critics might argue that it can create dependency or that there might be more sustainable ways to support these communities.
- The use of traditional bows in hunting is a skill and preference ...
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The importance of balance and perspective in highly specialized pursuits
Exploring the conversation between Joe Rogan and Bert Sorin, the narrative reveals insights into the challenges and considerations that come with intense dedication to specialized pursuits, such as sports or a strict diet, and highlights the importance of maintaining balance and perspective.
Recognizing the value of a "90% guy" mentality versus the all-consuming "rabbit hole" approach
While discussing the specifics of training in jiu-jitsu, Rogan points out that a hyper-focused approach on one aspect, like rolling, might disregard the value that a balanced approach brings to overall effectiveness.
Sorin introduces the concept of the "90% guy," someone who is passionate and talented in multiple areas rather than solely committed to being the best in one field. He acknowledges that becoming the "greatest of all time" likely requires complete dedication that he, among many, are not willing to give at the expense of other interests. Rogan supports this mindset in discussing his diet, describing how he mainly eats meat and eggs but does not restrict himself from occasionally enjoying pasta and vegetables, presenting a more balanced approach to life.
Highly specialized athletes can achieve remarkable feats, but often at the cost of a balanced lifestyle
Rogan shares his personal experience of intense commitment to archery leading to an overuse injury, which serves as a reminder of the potential cost of specialized pursuits on an individual's health and lifestyle. Likewise, Sorin discusses the demanding culture of wrestling, implying the high price that comes with an imbalanced, specialized approach.
Embracing a diverse range of interests and experiences
Joe Rogan and Bert Sorin talk about knowing when to aim for excellence and when to scale back, such as not aspiring to be a 70-year-old Olympic athlete. This conversation underlines the significance of recognizing points where chasing peak performance might negatively affect other life experiences.
Sorin reflects on his need to mature and refocus, considering his family and business, rather than chasing victories in sports. Rogan underscores the tension of wanting to be number one but also recognizes the potential life-long regrets if one focuses too narrowly on a singular pursuit.
Exploring multiple physical and intellectual passions can lead to personal growth and fulfillment
Sorin points out that he enjoys various forms of physical activity, such as weightlifting and throwing, besides his specialty, suggesting personal enjoyment in ...
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The importance of balance and perspective in highly specialized pursuits
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Clarifications
- The concept of a "90% guy" refers to someone who is proficient and passionate in multiple areas, rather than solely focusing on being the best in one specific field. This mindset values a well-rounded skill set and diverse interests over singular, all-consuming dedication to a single pursuit. It emphasizes the idea that excellence and fulfillment can be achieved without the need to be the absolute best in the world in any one endeavor.
- In the context of wrestling, the term "demanding culture" typically refers to the rigorous training regimens, intense physical conditioning, strict weight management practices, and competitive nature prevalent in the sport. Wrestlers often face immense pressure to perform at high levels, both individually and as part of a team, which can lead to a highly competitive and challenging environment. The sport demands discipline, dedication, mental toughness, and resilience from athletes to succeed in the face of intense physical and mental challenges. Coaches and teammates play a significant role in shaping this culture, emphasizing hard work, perseverance, and a relentless pursuit of excellence in wrestling.
- An overuse injury in archery can occur due to repetitive strain on the muscles and joints involved in drawing and releasing the bowstring. This can lead to conditions like tendonitis or muscle strains in the shoulders, arms, or back. Proper technique, conditioning, and rest are essential to prevent such injuries in archery. Overuse injuries are common in sports that involve repetitive motions and can impact performance and overall well-being if not managed effectively.
- Gary Clark Jr. is a renowned musician known for his blues and rock music. His "all in" approach in his music career signifies his intense dedication and focus on his musical craft, often at the expense of other aspects of his life. This approach involves priori ...
Counterarguments
- While balance is important, some fields may require a high level of specialization to achieve breakthroughs or innovations, and this intense focus can be necessary and beneficial for progress in certain areas.
- The "90% guy" mentality might not be suitable for everyone, as some individuals may find greater satisfaction and success in pursuing a single passion to the fullest extent.
- Specialization does not always lead to a lack of balance; some individuals may find ways to integrate their specialized pursuits into a well-rounded lifestyle.
- The idea that one should not aspire to be a 70-year-old Olympic athlete could be seen as limiting; age should not necessarily be a barrier to pursuing excellence in sports or other activities.
- Engaging in a diverse range of interests might dilute the effort and time one can dedicate to each, potentially leading to mediocrity in all areas rather than excellence in a few.
- The concept that one does not need to be the best in the world to find fulfillment might not resonate with highly competitive individuals who find their sense of fulfillment precisely in str ...
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