Podcasts > The Greg McKeown Podcast > 276. Think Remarkable with Guy Kawasaki (Part 1)

276. Think Remarkable with Guy Kawasaki (Part 1)

By Greg McKeown

Dive into a riveting exploration of passions and mindsets with Guy Kawasaki on The Greg McKeown Podcast, where the acclaimed speaker joins host Greg McKeown in a discussion that challenges conventional wisdom. In the episode, Kawasaki shares personal anecdotes from picking up hockey and surfing later in life, illustrating the joy and growth that come with exploring diverse interests. As Kawasaki dismantles the myth of finding a singular, early-life passion, he invites listeners to consider the enriching journey of continuous discovery and the search for one's "ikigai."

Meanwhile, the conversation segues into an examination of Steve Jobs's famously demanding leadership style and its impact on the Macintosh division. Kawasaki recounts how Jobs's high standards and 'genius mindset' paradoxically fostered a fertile environment for team growth and innovation. Further delving into the philosophical divide between fixed and growth mindsets, Kawasaki describes his personal evolution from a self-limiting belief in inherent abilities to a welcoming of new challenges. This episode is an engaging contemplation for anyone curious about learning, leadership, and the potential for transformation at any stage of life.

276. Think Remarkable with Guy Kawasaki (Part 1)

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276. Think Remarkable with Guy Kawasaki (Part 1)

1-Page Summary

Pursuing Diverse Interests to Find Passion

Guy Kawasaki emphasizes the importance of exploring a variety of interests to find one's passion, using his own experiences of embracing hockey and surfing later in life to demonstrate the potential for growth and enjoyment in new endeavors. Rejecting the notion that a single, lifelong passion should be found early in life, he supports the idea that it is enriching and beneficial to continuously step beyond one's existing knowledge and comfort zone in search of one's "ikigai."

Steve Jobs's Leadership Style

Guy Kawasaki reflects on the leadership style of Steve Jobs, particularly within the Macintosh division, noting that Jobs demanded exceptional performance which drove the team towards growth and innovation. Jobs's approach, while seemingly fitting a 'genius mindset,' also propelled a growth environment where team members were encouraged to elevate their capabilities. This paradox between recognizing genius and fostering development forms the core of Jobs's leadership philosophy as observed by Kawasaki.

Fixed vs Growth Mindset

The distinction between a fixed mindset—believing in inherent abilities—and a growth mindset—believing abilities can be developed—is delineated through Guy Kawasaki's own transformation and broader societal observations. Kawasaki describes his journey from viewing effort as an implication of inadequacy to embracing challenges and learning new skills later in life. The conversation extends to critiques of educational systems that perpetuate the fixed mindset by labeling individuals, and underscores the benefits of adopting a growth mindset exemplified by stories like the 49ers' quarterback. The conclusion advocates for the growth mindset's capacity to enhance lifelong learning and success, unbounded by age or initial skill level.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Ikigai is a Japanese concept that represents a reason for being, a sense of purpose in life that brings fulfillment and motivation. It encompasses activities that are willingly pursued and provide a feeling of accomplishment. Ikigai can vary between social, non-social, and anti-social aspects, reflecting different sources of value and meaning in one's life. It is often associated with a sense of inner satisfaction and is believed to contribute to overall well-being and longevity.
  • A fixed mindset is when someone believes that abilities are innate and cannot be changed, leading to a fear of failure and a reluctance to take on challenges. In contrast, a growth mindset is the belief that abilities can be developed through effort and learning, leading to a willingness to embrace challenges and persist in the face of setbacks. Embracing a growth mindset can lead to increased resilience, motivation, and a focus on continuous improvement rather than a fixed view of one's capabilities.

Counterarguments

  • While exploring diverse interests can lead to finding one's passion, it can also lead to a lack of focus and mastery in any one area, which is sometimes necessary for professional success.
  • Embracing new endeavors may not always lead to growth and enjoyment; for some individuals, it can result in frustration, a sense of failure, or wasted resources if the new activities do not align with their abilities or life circumstances.
  • Stepping beyond one's comfort zone is enriching, but it can also be stressful and counterproductive for individuals who thrive on stability and routine.
  • Steve Jobs's demand for exceptional performance indeed drove innovation, but it could also be argued that his leadership style created a high-pressure environment that may not have been conducive to the well-being of all team members.
  • While fostering a growth environment is beneficial, recognizing genius can sometimes lead to a culture of elitism or unrealistic expectations for others to perform at the same level.
  • The transformation from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset is positive, but some individuals may naturally excel in certain areas without the need for a growth mindset, and this innate talent should not be undervalued.
  • Criticizing educational systems for perpetuating a fixed mindset overlooks the complexities of education policy and the challenges of catering to a diverse range of learning needs and preferences.
  • The advocacy for a growth mindset is commendable, but it may not be the optimal approach for everyone; some individuals may find success and fulfillment by capitalizing on their existing strengths rather than constantly seeking to develop new abilities.

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276. Think Remarkable with Guy Kawasaki (Part 1)

Pursuing Diverse Interests to Find Passion

Guy Kawasaki, an influential technologist and entrepreneur, shares his personal journey and thoughts on the exploration of passions and interests, asserting that it’s never too late in life to start something new and that the act of trying new things itself opens up unforeseen possibilities.

Guy Kawasaki pursuing hockey and surfing later in life

Kawasaki explores the importance of being open to new experiences throughout life, citing his own decision to take up hockey at 44 and surfing at 60. These choices are typically considered unusual since both sports are generally associated with younger people. Kawasaki's own adventures in late-life sports endeavor serve as a testament to the principle of lifelong learning and the joy of embracing new challenges at any age.

Trying new things opens up possibilities

In addition to his personal experiences, Kawasaki critiques the commonly held notion that everyone should discover their single, lifelong passion early on. Inst ...

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Pursuing Diverse Interests to Find Passion

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • "ikigai" is a Japanese concept that combines the notions of what you love, what you are good at, what the world needs, and what you can be paid for. It represents the intersection of these four elements, guiding individuals towards finding purpose and fulfillment in their lives. Discovering one's "ikigai" involves introspection and understanding how personal passions and skills align with societal needs and opportunities for financial sustenance. Embracing "ikigai" can lead to a sense of meaning, satisfaction, and a balanced approach to life.
  • A growth mindset is a belief that one's abilities and intelligence can be developed over time through effort, learning, and perseverance. It contrasts with a fixed mindset, which believes that abilities are innate and unchangeable. Embracing a growth mindset encourages resilience, learning from failures, and seeking challenges as opportunities for growth and improvement. It fosters a positive attitude towards learning and personal development.
  • Lifelong learning is the continuous and self-driven pursuit of k ...

Counterarguments

  • While pursuing new interests can be beneficial, not everyone has the financial resources or time to explore various hobbies, which can be a privilege.
  • Starting new physical activities later in life can come with increased risk of injury, and not everyone may have the physical capacity or health to safely engage in sports like hockey or surfing.
  • Some individuals may find deep satisfaction in mastering one skill or passion rather than exploring many, and the idea of a single lifelong passion should not be dismissed as less valuable.
  • The concept of "ikigai" is culturally specific and may not resonate with or be applicable to everyone's life philosophy or circumstances.
  • Kawasaki's success in pursuing new interests may not be easily replicab ...

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276. Think Remarkable with Guy Kawasaki (Part 1)

Steve Jobs's Leadership Style

Guy Kawasaki examines Steve Jobs's leadership approach, reflecting on his demands for exceptional performance at the Macintosh division which fostered a unique company culture.

Steve demanded exceptional performance from the team which drove growth

Kawasaki recalls how Steve Jobs initially fostered a culture of genius within the Macintosh division, where team members were categorized as either "bozos or not bozos" and as "A player or not." This binary categorization highlights a demand for high caliber performance and innovation, which Jobs insisted upon for the company's progression.

Steve embodied paradox of genius mindset and growth mindset

Upon further contemplation, Kawasaki recognizes that perhaps Jobs’s approach was not merely labeling people, but instead pushing for a culture of growth ...

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Steve Jobs's Leadership Style

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • In Steve Jobs's leadership approach, he categorized team members as either "bozos" (those who did not meet his standards) or "not bozos." He also classified them as "A players" (high performers) or "not," emphasizing his demand for exceptional performance and excellence within the team. This binary categorization reflected Jobs's high expectations and his focus on fostering a culture of excellence and innovation within the Macintosh division.
  • Steve Jobs's leadership style combined a "genius mindset," which focused on recognizing exceptional talent and capability, with a "growth mindset," emphasizing continuous development and improvement. This synthesis meant that Jobs expected high performance akin to genius levels from ...

Counterarguments

  • While demanding exceptional performance can drive growth, it can also create a high-pressure environment that may not be sustainable or healthy for all team members.
  • Categorizing team members as "bozos or not bozos" and "A player or not" can be overly simplistic and may overlook the nuanced contributions of individuals who may not fit neatly into these categories.
  • Insisting on high caliber performance and innovation is important, but it should be balanced with support, resources, and realistic expectations to prevent burnout and turnover.
  • A culture that requires everyone to perform at a genius level might inadvertently discourage collaboration and the sharing of ideas, as it could foster a competitive rather than cooperative atmosphere.
  • The aim to elevate team members to reach genius status is admirable, but it is important ...

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276. Think Remarkable with Guy Kawasaki (Part 1)

Fixed vs Growth Mindset

The conversation surrounding the concept of mindset reveals the distinct differences between a fixed and a growth mindset. Through personal anecdotes and the examination of influential figures such as Steve Jobs, Guy Kawasaki, and others support the idea that a growth mindset can greatly expand one's potential and opportunities for learning and success.

Fixed mindset limits potential; believes abilities are inherent

Kawasaki feels that he previously had a fixed mindset, under which he associated effort with impossibility. With this mindset, he once believed he was a prodigy who couldn't learn new skills or lose the skills he already had, which he now finds limiting and even pathetic. This intrinsic belief in inherent abilities leads individuals to avoid challenges or pursuits they are not immediately good at, like music or surfing.

McKeown elaborates that a fixed mindset can be perpetuated by families and schools when they label individuals as either gifted or not. He explains how the label "genius" has shifted from a temporary state to a permanent characteristic of a person, reinforcing the fixed mindset. Kawasaki also points out the limitation of this mindset, which falsely suggests that if you are not good at something right away, then you never will be.

Growth mindset believes abilities can be developed

Kawasaki shares how Carol Dweck's book "Mindset" fundamentally changed his perspective, shifting him from a fixed to a growth mindset. Kawasaki took up hockey at 44 and surfing at 60, illustrating that it's never too late to develop new skills. His shift is supported by interviews with remarkable individuals who demonstrated growth and grit, showing that abilities can indeed be developed over time.

McKeown builds on this idea, discussing how a growth mindset enables individuals to embrace challenges and leads to the belief in expanding one's mind through learning. By contrast, a fixed mindset may instill fear of failure or of being exposed as lacking inherent genius, thus discouraging new endeavors.

McKeown recommends adop ...

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Fixed vs Growth Mindset

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • A fixed mindset is when someone believes their abilities are innate and unchangeable, leading to a fear of failure and avoidance of challenges. In contrast, a growth mindset is the belief that abilities can be developed through effort and perseverance, leading to a willingness to take on challenges and learn from setbacks. Fixed mindset individuals may see talent as static, while those with a growth mindset view intelligence and skills as qualities that can be cultivated over time. Adopting a growth mindset can lead to increased resilience, learning, and success in various endeavors.
  • In the context of fixed mindsets, labeling individuals as gifted or not by families and schools can reinforce the belief that abilities are innate and unchangeable. This labeling can create a mindset where individuals feel defined by their perceived inherent talents, leading to a reluctance to take on challenges outside their perceived strengths. It can limit personal growth by discouraging efforts in areas where one may not excel immediately. Such labels can perpetuate the idea that success is predetermined by natural abilities rather than effort and perseverance.
  • The concept that intelligence and abilities are not static means that they are not fixed traits determined at birth. Instead, individuals can develop and improve their skills and intelligence through effort, practice, and learning over time. This idea, known as a growth mindset, emphasizes the belief in one's capacity for growth and improvement in various areas of life. Embracing a growth mindset can lead to increased motivation, resilience, and a willingness to take on challenges to achieve personal and professional growth.
  • Carol Dweck's book "Mindset" is a seminal work that introduces the concept of fixed and growth mindsets. It explains how individuals with a growth mindset believe that abilities can be developed through dedication and hard work, leading to greater success and fulfillment. Dweck's research highlights the transformative power of adopting a growth mindset, emphasizing the importance of viewing challenges as opportunities for growth and learning. By showcasing real-life examples and practical strategies, the book inspires readers to shift their perspectives and embrace a mindset that fosters resilience, perseverance, and continuous improvement.
  • Embracing challenges and committing to lifelong learning are essential aspects of develo ...

Counterarguments

  • While a growth mindset is beneficial, it is important to recognize that some abilities may have a biological or genetic component that can limit the extent to which they can be developed.
  • The concept of a fixed mindset might be oversimplified, as people can have a mix of fixed and growth mindsets in different areas of their lives.
  • Labeling individuals as gifted does not necessarily reinforce a fixed mindset; it can also motivate and provide opportunities for further development if approached correctly.
  • The idea that adopting a growth mindset can lead to success may overlook other factors that contribute to achievement, such as socioeconomic status, access to resources, and support systems.
  • The narrative that anyone can achieve anything with a growth mindset might inadvertently lead to self-blame for those who face systemic barriers or do not reach their goals despite their efforts.
  • The emphasis on constant learning and development could contribute to a culture of overwork and the undervaluing of contentment and acceptance of one's current abilities.
  • The success stories me ...

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