Podcasts > The Ezra Klein Show > The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

By New York Times Opinion

Dive into a geopolitical discussion with Ezra Klein and his guest Richard Haass on "The Ezra Klein Show," as they tackle the complexities surrounding the ongoing conflicts in Ukraine and Gaza, and the implications for American foreign policy. The episode paints the dire situation of the war in Ukraine, stressing the challenge Ukraine faces against an invigorated Russian offensive, despite significant casualties. As they discuss the importance of evolving U.S. strategy beyond military aid, Haass and Klein explore the diplomatic and economic considerations that should be factored into America's long-term approach to the conflict.

Meanwhile, the conversation shifts to the domestic political landscape, revealing the increasing isolationist tendencies within the Republican Party and its impact on the United States' commitment to Ukraine. They also address the contentious military operations in Gaza, delving into the consequential rifts they create in international opinion, and the strain on U.S.-Israel relations. Haass points towards a more diplomatic, public-facing approach for President Biden to mitigate tensions and uphold the values of the alliance. The episode provides a critical examination of the need for a clear and coherent U.S. foreign policy that can navigate through the challenges of alignment with difficult allies while managing its own polarized political environment.

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The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

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The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

1-Page Summary

Russia's invasion of Ukraine and challenges in current phase of war

The war in Ukraine intensifies as Russia reinforces its military capabilities, placing Ukraine in a perilous position due to ammunition shortages and growing war casualties, with 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers reported lost by President Zelensky. Ukraine's previous successes are now overshadowed by the harsh reality of defending against a larger Russian force, resulting in the loss of some towns. The situation creates a bleak outlook for diplomatic resolutions with Putin, while questions surface regarding the viability of Ukraine's ambitions to reclaim all territories. Richard Haass emphasizes the need for the United States to develop a broader strategy that goes beyond military support, considering long-term diplomatic and economic aspects.

Republican shift towards isolationism and unreliable support for Ukraine

A notable drift towards isolationism within the Republican Party raises concerns over the future of American support for Ukraine. The party's growing hesitation to back Ukraine reflects internal conflicts and skepticism about Ukraine's military objectives, as some Republicans, like Senator Vance, question the wisdom of the United States' continued investment in the conflict. Ezra Klein and Richard Haass recognize a resurgence of an isolationist sentiment rooted in historical American politics, coupled with an odd admiration for Russian authoritarianism from certain right-wing factions. The debate within the party suggests a challenge to convey the importance of supporting Ukraine when domestic issues are more favorable politically.

Israel's brutal military operations in Gaza creating divides

Israel's intense military operations in Gaza, causing significant destruction and civilian casualties, have sparked global consternation and heightened divides in international perspectives. Prime Minister Netanyahu's unwillingness to heed President Biden's calls for moderation strains the U.S.-Israel relationship. The debate on the conditionality of U.S. support intensifies as calls grow for a reassessment of military aid and restrictions on its use in densely populated civilian areas. Richard Haass suggests a direct appeal from President Biden to the Israeli public through an address at the Knesset, promoting a more balanced approach that factors in long-term consequences for peace and the U.S.-Israeli alliance.

Foreign policy challenges with divided US politics and difficult allies

The current challenges in U.S. foreign policy stem from an apparent alignment with the objectives of problematic allies like Israel and Ukraine. Haass and Klein point out that the Biden administration seems hesitant to assert its strategies, constrained by allies' goals and domestic partisan politics that impair bipartisan policy-making. The Republican Party's internal divisions, cultivated by the influence of Donald Trump, prevent a unified stance on foreign policy. There is difficulty in messaging a coherent U.S. policy that must balance the demands of allies with the necessity to project an independent American strategy on the global stage, calling for potential policy shifts and clearer articulation of the nation's objectives.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The conflict between Russia and Ukraine escalated with Russia reinforcing its military capabilities, leading to significant casualties and ammunition shortages for Ukraine. President Zelensky reported 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers lost, overshadowing previous successes and raising doubts about Ukraine's ability to defend against the larger Russian force. The situation has dimmed prospects for diplomatic solutions with Putin, prompting discussions on the feasibility of Ukraine's territorial ambitions. The United States is urged to adopt a comprehensive strategy beyond military aid, focusing on long-term diplomatic and economic considerations.
  • President Zelensky is the current President of Ukraine. Richard Haass is a prominent American diplomat and president of the Council on Foreign Relations. Senator Vance is a fictional character in the context of this text. Ezra Klein is a journalist and political commentator. Prime Minister Netanyahu is the former Prime Minister of Israel.
  • US foreign policy involves the strategies and actions the United States takes in its interactions with other countries. Isolationism is a foreign policy approach where a country limits its involvement in international affairs. Support for allies is crucial in foreign policy to maintain alliances and achieve common goals. Balancing isolationist tendencies with supporting allies can be a complex challenge for policymakers.

Counterarguments

  • The reported number of Ukrainian casualties may be contested or not independently verified, and different sources may provide different figures.
  • The effectiveness of Ukraine's defense and the strategic significance of lost towns can be debated, with some arguing that Ukraine is still demonstrating strong resilience and tactical successes.
  • The bleak outlook for diplomatic resolutions with Putin could be countered by the argument that diplomacy is a long and complex process, and opportunities for negotiation may still arise.
  • The viability of Ukraine's ambitions to reclaim all territories could be seen as a long-term goal that may evolve with the changing dynamics of the conflict.
  • The need for a broader US strategy beyond military support might be challenged by those who believe that military aid is currently the most critical form of support for Ukraine.
  • The shift towards isolationism within the Republican Party may not be as widespread or definitive as suggested, with significant portions of the party still supporting international engagement.
  • The skepticism about US involvement in the conflict could be seen as a legitimate concern for fiscal responsibility and prioritizing domestic issues.
  • The admiration for Russian authoritarianism within certain right-wing factions may not reflect the views of the broader Republican Party or conservative base.
  • The intensity of Israel's military operations in Gaza and the resulting civilian casualties could be justified by some as a necessary response to threats posed by militant groups in the region.
  • The strain on the US-Israel relationship might be viewed as a temporary issue that can be resolved through diplomatic channels without a fundamental reassessment of military aid.
  • The challenges in US foreign policy related to alignment with allies could be seen as an inherent aspect of international relations where interests sometimes diverge, and compromises are necessary.
  • The Biden administration's perceived hesitancy could be defended as a cautious approach to avoid escalating conflicts or committing to untenable positions.
  • The impact of domestic partisan politics on foreign policy might be considered a normal part of democratic governance, with different viewpoints contributing to a more robust debate.
  • The Republican Party's internal divisions could be interpreted as a healthy democratic process where diverse opinions are expressed and reconciled.
  • The difficulty in messaging a coherent US policy could be attributed to the complexity of international affairs and the need to adapt to rapidly changing situations.
  • Calls for potential policy shifts and clearer articulation of national objectives might be met with the argument that foreign policy requires flexibility and sometimes strategic ambiguity.

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The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine and challenges in current phase of war

The ongoing war in Ukraine, sparked by Russia's invasion, presents a complex mix of military, economic, and diplomatic challenges for all parties involved.

Ukraine's valiant defense but growing losses and need for more ammunition

Despite Ukraine's substantially smaller population and military compared to Russia, Ukraine has held its own impressively over the past two years. With negligible territorial gains made by Russia during this period, Ukraine has experienced significant military success with considerable help from the United States and Europe, inflicting notable damage on Russian forces.

However, President Zelensky has cited the loss of 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers, highlighting the immense economic costs and human toll of the conflict. Recently, Ukraine has faced a shift on the battlefield due to Russia's massive deployment of troops, equipment, and ammunition – this contrasts sharply with Ukraine's shortages of ammunition. Forced to adopt defensive tactics, which require fewer resources, Ukraine is still progressively being overwhelmed and has started to lose some towns.

Difficulty getting Republican support for latest aid package

Ukraine's struggle in liberating its territory from Russia is underscored by the fact that securing continued support for aid packages, especially from Republicans, poses its own set of difficulties. This presents challenges in providing Ukraine with the necessary ammunition and resources to maintain their defense and deter Russian advances.

Shifting Russian advantage on the battlefield and limited prospects for diplomacy with Putin

As Russia strengthens its position on the battlefield, the prospects for diplomacy with the current Russian leadership under Putin appear limited. Haass contends that Ukraine's goal of milita ...

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Russia's invasion of Ukraine and challenges in current phase of war

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Zelensky's aims in the context of the text are focused on Ukraine's goal of militarily liberating its territory from Russian forces and repelling the Russian presence completely. These aims are part of Ukraine's broader strategy in the ongoing conflict with Russia, which involves defending its sovereignty and territorial integrity. President Zelensky's objectives include securing support for aid packages to maintain Ukraine's defense capabilities and deter Russian advances. The text suggests that achieving Zelensky's territorial aims may face challenges due to the shifting dynamics of the conflict and the limited prospects for diplomacy with the current Russian leadership under Putin.
  • In the context of a conflict, a stalemate occurs when neither side is able to make significant progress or gain a decisive advantage over the other. During a stalemate, diplomatic opportunities may arise as both parties may be more willing to consider negotiations or compromises to break the deadlock and seek a resolution to the conflict. This is because when neither side can achieve a clear victory, they may be more open to exploring diplomatic solutions to end the conflict. Stalemates can create a window for diplomatic initiatives aimed at finding a peaceful resolution to the conflict by engaging in negotiations or discussions to address the underlying issues causing the deadlock.
  • R ...

Counterarguments

  • While Ukraine has held its own, some argue that the narrative of "impressive defense" may overlook the significant and ongoing support from international allies, which has been crucial for Ukraine's resistance.
  • The military success attributed to Ukraine could be seen as a result of combined international efforts rather than Ukrainian efforts alone.
  • The damage inflicted on Russian forces might be countered by the argument that Russia still maintains a significant military capability and the potential for escalation.
  • The cited loss of 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers, while tragic, could be viewed in the context of the expected casualties in a high-intensity conflict, and some might argue that the focus should also be on civilian casualties and the broader humanitarian impact.
  • The shortage of ammunition in Ukraine could be seen as a strategic challenge that requires not just more aid but also better logistics and resource management.
  • The narrative of Ukraine being progressively overwhelmed could be challenged by pointing out the resilience and adaptability of Ukrainian forces in the face of adversity.
  • The loss of some towns might be seen as a tactical withdrawal or part of a larger strategic maneuver rather than a sign of being overwhelmed.
  • The difficulty in securing continued support from Republicans for aid packages could be countered by the argument that there is a need for more scrutiny and accountability in how aid is used and its long-term implications.
  • The strengthening of Russia's position on the battlefield could be debated by those who believe that Russia is facing its own set of challenges and limitations.
  • The limited prospects for diplomacy with Putin could be countered by the argument that there are always diplomatic options, even with adversarial leaders, and that dialogue shoul ...

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The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

Republican shift towards isolationism and unreliable support for Ukraine

Recent actions by Republican lawmakers are showing a discernible shift in the party's stance towards isolationism, casting doubt on the reliability of their support for Ukraine in its conflict with Russia.

Growing isolationist sentiment and focus on problems at home over foreign crises

Republicans have been increasingly reluctant to support the latest Ukraine aid package, demonstrating uncertain support for the country amidst its ongoing conflict with Russia. Ezra Klein labels this trend in the Republican party as a turn towards "Trumpism," with foreign policy positions squaring with Donald Trump's fluctuating views. Richard Haass highlights the return of isolationism, a sentiment historically present in American politics and currently appealing due to its emphasis on domestic over foreign issues. This feeling, Haass notes, permeates both major political parties in the United States.

Bizarre sympathy for Russian authoritarianism from some Republicans

Haass notes what he describes as a "bizarre right-wing Republican fascination" with Vladimir Putin's Russia. This fascination includes admiration for its anti-progressive stance on issues such as LGBTQ+ rights, which aligns with certain conservative ideologies in the United States, presenting an undesired kinship with Russian authoritarianism.

Political challenges in justifying continued Ukraine support

The narrative suggests a growing hesitancy among US political figures—specifically Republicans—regarding the continual support for Ukraine. Senator Vance and others within the party exhibit skepticism about the achievability of Ukraine's military aims, questioning the wisdom of continuing to invest in what they perceive might be a failing strategy.

Klein addresses the internal conflict within the Republican Party, mentioning that while some Republicans are ...

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Republican shift towards isolationism and unreliable support for Ukraine

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Ezra Klein's characterization of the Republican shift as "Trumpism" reflects the trend of the party aligning its foreign policy positions with those of former President Donald Trump, whose views on international relations have influenced the party's stance. This term suggests a departure from traditional Republican foreign policy approaches and a move towards policies and attitudes associated with Trump's time in office. It implies a shift towards a more nationalist, America-first ideology in the party's approach to global affairs.
  • Isolationism in American politics historically involves a reluctance to engage extensively in foreign affairs, focusing more on domestic issues. Richard Haass highlights a return to isolationist sentiments, where there is a preference for prioritizing internal matters over involvement in global conflicts. This shift towards isolationism can impact how political parties approach foreign policy decisions, including support for countries like Ukraine in their conflicts. Haass suggests that this trend is not limited to one political party but is increasingly influencing both major parties in the United States.
  • The "bizarre right-wing Republican fascination with Vladimir Putin's Russia" alludes to some Republicans expressing admiration for aspects of Russia under Putin's leadership, such as its conservative stance on issues like LGBTQ+ rights, which aligns with certain conservative beliefs in the United States. This admiration for Russian authoritarianism can be perplexing given the historical tensions between the U.S. and Russia, as well as the contrasting values on democracy and human rights. It highlights a complex intersection of political ideologies and international relations that may not align with traditional American foreign policy perspectives.
  • Senator Vance's skepticism about Ukraine's military aims reflects his doubts about the effectiveness and feasibility of Ukraine's military objectives in its conflict with Russia. He questions whether Ukraine's military strategy is realistic and achievable, leading to concerns about the wisdom of providing continued support to Ukraine in its efforts against Russian aggression. This skepticism may stem from a belief that Ukraine's military goals may not align with what Senator Vance perceives as achievable outcomes given the current circumstances of the conflict. Senator Vance's stance suggests a cautious approach towards committing resources and support to Ukraine's military endeavors.
  • The internal conflict within the Republican Party regarding aid to Ukraine stems from differing views on the strategic importance ...

Counterarguments

  • The shift towards isolationism may not be a party-wide phenomenon but rather the stance of a vocal minority within the Republican Party.
  • Support for Ukraine may still be strong among Republicans, but fiscal conservatives are concerned about the cost and oversight of aid packages.
  • The term "Trumpism" may oversimplify a complex array of foreign policy views within the Republican Party, which includes both interventionists and non-interventionists.
  • The appeal of isolationism could be a response to voter fatigue from long-term military engagements abroad rather than a fundamental change in policy perspective.
  • Sympathy for Russian authoritarianism, if it exists, is likely not representative of the Republican Party as a whole, which has historically been critical of Russia.
  • Skepticism about supporting Ukraine could stem from a desire for a clearer strategy and endgame rather than a lack of support for Ukraine's sovereignty.
  • Aligning indirectly with Russian interests may be an unfair characterization of Republicans who are advocating for a more cautious approach to for ...

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The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

Israel's brutal military operations in Gaza creating divides

Horrific destruction and death toll in Gaza exceeding perceived need for self-defense

The scale and ferocity of Israel's response in Gaza, which has led to high destruction and death tolls, is perceived by many as exceeding the necessary actions for self-defense. This perception has positioned Israel as the aggressor in the eyes of some, which has subsequently contributed to divides in international opinion on the conflict.

Netanyahu disregarding Biden's pleas for restraint and vision for aftermath

The Israeli government, specifically under the leadership of Netanyahu, has shown a blatant disregard for President Biden’s calls for restraint and his vision for the aftermath of the conflict. Haass indicates that such disregard from the current Israeli leadership for the special relationship with the United States may have long-term implications for bilateral relations. However, the U.S. administration, despite expressing disappointment with Israel's aggressive actions, has not taken significant action to close the gap between its concerns and the Israeli government's operations.

Questions on conditionality of US support given settlement expansion, military funding

Options for restricting use of US arms in civilian areas

Ezra Klein talks about the asymmetry of conditionality in the two-state conversation, noting how Palestinians are expected to earn statehood in contrast to Israelis. Klein underscores the issue with Israeli settlements being illegal under international law and the lack of U.S. punitive measures such as withholding aid or a strategy to roll back settlements.

Moreover, Richard Haass suggests that U.S. policy should consider ending unconditional support and strive to uphold the prospects for a two-state solution. As part of a revised approach, Haass recommends that while the U.S. should continue military aid to Israel, it should also impose restrictions on the use of certain types of weaponry in heavily populated civilian areas of Ga ...

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Israel's brutal military operations in Gaza creating divides

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The Knesset is the unicameral legislature of Israel, responsible for passing laws, electing key officials, approving the cabinet, and overseeing the government's work. It is where important decisions regarding the country's governance and policies are made. The term "Knesset" is derived from the ancient Knesset HaGdola, which was an assembly in Jewish tradition consisting of scribes, sages, and prophets. The Knesset plays a crucial role in Israel's political system and represents the voice of the Israeli people through elected members.
  • End-user agreements are contracts that outline the terms and conditions for the use of a product, often specifying restrictions and responsibilities for the end user. These agreements can include provisions on how a product can be used, particularly in sensitive areas like military operations or civilian settings. They are designed to regulate the use of products and ensure compliance with legal and ethical standards.
  • U.S. policy considerations regarding Israel and Palestine involve discussions on the conditionality of U.S. support, i ...

Counterarguments

  • Israel's military operations are a response to threats and attacks from militant groups in Gaza, and the country has the right to defend its citizens.
  • The complexity of the conflict means that actions taken by Israel may be seen as necessary for their national security, even if they are viewed as excessive by outsiders.
  • Netanyahu's actions could be interpreted as prioritizing Israel's immediate security concerns over international diplomacy.
  • The U.S. support for Israel, including military aid, is based on shared democratic values and strategic interests, and any conditionality might undermine Israel's ability to defend itself.
  • Restrictions on the use of U.S.-supplied arms could potentially limit Israel's military options and effectiveness in res ...

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The Wars in Ukraine and Gaza Have Changed. America’s Policy Hasn’t.

Foreign policy challenges with divided US politics and difficult allies

Richard Haass and Ezra Klein discuss the complexities and constraints that the United States faces in its foreign policy strategy due to difficult allies and partisan divisions.

Administration perceived as captured by allies' aims, needing more independent strategies

The current U.S. foreign policy, influenced by allies like Israel and Ukraine, faces criticism for not being sufficiently independent. Both Richard Haass and others highlight that the Biden administration seems captured by the aims of allies, such as Netanyahu's Israel and Zelensky's Ukraine, which necessitates a different approach. The administration appears constrained in articulating and pursuing a clear strategy on urgent international issues, and there's a perception that the administration's reticence to confront or push back against allies is limiting its ability to develop and communicate an independent U.S. foreign policy. Haass suggests the need for a major speech by President Biden to indicate a possible shift in strategy.

Partisan divisions constraining policy changes and bipartisan dealmaking

Partisan divisions, particularly on the Republican side, are constraining the administration’s ability to articulate and adjust its foreign policy. Klein indicates that the political atmosphere lacks true engagement in debate and positions are often swayed by the fear of crossing Donald Trump. This indicates that internal political divides are influencing policy stances and the potential for bipartisan policy-making. Haass suggests that there is scope for policy adjustment by the administration concerning allies, but there seems to be a hesitation to make those adjustments due to fear of criticism from different quarters.

Messaging difficulties explaining true policy aims constrained by ally relations

T ...

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Foreign policy challenges with divided US politics and difficult allies

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The criticisms of U.S. foreign policy regarding allies like Israel and Ukraine stem from perceptions that the Biden administration is overly influenced by their interests, potentially hindering the pursuit of an independent foreign policy agenda. Critics argue that the administration's close alignment with leaders like Netanyahu of Israel and Zelensky of Ukraine limits its ability to address urgent international issues with impartiality. This dynamic has led to calls for the administration to reassess its relationships with these allies to ensure a more balanced and strategic approach in its foreign policy decisions.
  • Partisan divisions in the U.S., especially within the Republican Party, are creating challenges for the Biden administration to make foreign policy adjustments. The fear of backlash or criticism from different political factions can hinder the administration's ability to modify its approach towards allies like Israel and Ukraine. This internal political divide affects the administration's flexibility in shaping and implementing foreign policy decisions. The influence of partisan politics can impede bipartisan cooperation and consensus-building on critical international issues.
  • The challenge in being perceived as an honest broker in the Israel-Palestine issue stems from the U.S.'s historically close relationship with Israel, which can create doubts about its impartiality. This closeness can lead to perceptions of bias in favor of Israel, making it difficult for the U.S. to mediate conflicts between Israel and Palestine without facing skepticism about its neutrality. The unequal treatment of Israel and Palestine in certain policy aspects, despite international legal considerations, can further complicate efforts to be seen as an unbiased mediator in the region. This dynamic can hinder the U.S.'s ability to effectivel ...

Counterarguments

  • The influence of allies like Israel and Ukraine on U.S. foreign policy can be seen as a natural outcome of shared strategic interests and values, rather than a lack of independence.
  • The Biden administration may have a clear strategy on urgent international issues, but the complexities of global politics and the need for diplomatic nuance often require a measured approach that may be misinterpreted as hesitancy.
  • Confronting or pushing back against allies in a public manner may not always be the most effective diplomatic strategy, as it could damage long-standing relationships and undermine mutual goals.
  • Partisan divisions are a normal part of democratic politics, and it is the responsibility of all parties to work towards compromise and consensus, not just the administration.
  • The political influence of figures like Donald Trump is a reflection of their support within their party and the electorate, and it is up to the voters to decide the direction of their political representatives.
  • Policy stances influenced by internal political divides may actually reflect the diverse opinions and interests of the American electorate, which elected officials are meant to represent.
  • The ability to communicate true policy aims may be less about the influence of allies and more about the inherent challenges of conveying complex foreign policy issues to the public ...

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