Podcasts > The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett > Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

By Steven Bartlett

In this episode of The Diary Of A CEO, former Secret Service agent Evy Poumpouras discusses emotional intelligence and effective communication in professional settings with Steven Bartlett. They explore how emotional control and self-regulation contribute to better decision-making, and examine the role of neutrality and empathy in understanding others' behavior.

The conversation delves into practical aspects of building strong professional relationships, including how to select trustworthy people for your inner circle and ways to distance yourself from negative influences. Poumpouras and Bartlett share insights on developing authoritative communication skills through deliberate speech and body language, while addressing the importance of accepting reality and focusing on controllable elements when facing challenges.

Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

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Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

1-Page Summary

Emotional Intelligence and Self-Regulation

Former Secret Service agent Evy Poumpouras emphasizes that emotional control is vital for effective communication and decision-making. She advocates for maintaining neutrality in professional contexts and using empathy without judgment to gather intelligence and read behavior accurately. Poumpouras stresses that successful leaders should embrace uncertainty and be comfortable not having all the answers, as true confidence comes from self-assurance rather than ego.

Building Strong Relationships and Support Networks

Poumpouras and Steven Bartlett discuss the importance of carefully selecting one's inner circle. Poumpouras shares how being around regulated, intelligent people at NYPD helped her own self-regulation, while Bartlett maintains a zero-tolerance policy for negative behaviors in his companies. Both experts advocate for distancing oneself from negative influences, even family members, when necessary for personal growth.

They emphasize quality over quantity in relationships, with Bartlett noting he only trusts about ten people with close confidence. Poumpouras adds that trust must be earned over time, using the example of "Jack," who built trust consistently over seven years.

Developing Confident, Authoritative Communication and Presence

According to Poumpouras, effective communication requires deliberate speech, thoughtful gestures, and strategic pauses. She advises against rushing, using filler words, and oversharing, noting that showing open hands while speaking can enhance trustworthiness. Bartlett adds that the value of words significantly influences audience perception.

Accepting Reality and Adapting To Circumstances

Poumpouras emphasizes the importance of accepting reality rather than trying to change others. She shares practical strategies for handling challenges, such as breaking down difficult tasks into smaller goals. Both Poumpouras and Bartlett discuss the importance of focusing on controllable elements, with Bartlett sharing examples like a British cycling team's "pedals over podium" approach to illustrate the effectiveness of concentrating on actionable steps.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While emotional control is important, it's also necessary to acknowledge and express emotions in a healthy way; suppressing emotions can lead to stress and burnout.
  • Neutrality can sometimes be perceived as disinterest or lack of empathy, which might hinder relationship building in professional contexts.
  • Using empathy without judgment is ideal, but it's also human nature to have biases, and it's important to recognize and work on them rather than pretend they don't exist.
  • While embracing uncertainty is a valuable leadership quality, stakeholders often expect leaders to have a clear vision and answers to critical issues.
  • True confidence may come from self-assurance, but it's also important to recognize the role of external validation and feedback in building one's self-esteem.
  • The idea of distancing oneself from negative influences can be beneficial, but it's also important to consider the value of diverse perspectives, including those that challenge or critique.
  • Trust is indeed built over time, but there can be instances where immediate trust is necessary, and a balance must be struck between caution and openness.
  • Deliberate speech and thoughtful gestures are important, but there's also a place for spontaneity and authenticity in communication, which can sometimes be lost in overly calculated interactions.
  • Avoiding filler words is generally good advice, but they can also serve a purpose in natural speech, such as giving the speaker time to think or signaling engagement in a conversation.
  • The advice to focus on controllable elements is sound, but it's also important to recognize and prepare for the impact of uncontrollable factors.
  • Concentrating on actionable steps is effective, but it's also crucial to keep the bigger picture in mind to ensure that these steps are leading towards the desired long-term goals.

Actionables

  • You can enhance your emotional control by practicing mindfulness during routine activities, like brushing your teeth or doing dishes, focusing solely on the sensations and experience, which trains your brain to stay present and calm during more stressful situations.
  • Develop your empathy skills by engaging in a 'perspective-taking' exercise where you write a brief story about a day in the life of someone you know, trying to capture their emotional landscape, which can improve your ability to understand others without judgment.
  • To improve the quality of your relationships, initiate a monthly 'relationship audit' where you reflect on your interactions with the people in your life and identify which relationships are mutually beneficial and which may need boundaries or distance to foster personal growth.

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Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

Emotional Intelligence and Self-Regulation

Emotional Awareness and Control Essential For Performance and Relationships

Having control over our emotions is crucial for effective communication and decision-making, according to security specialist and former Secret Service agent Evy Poumpouras.

Composure and Thoughtful Responses Key to Effective Communication and Decision-Making

Poumpouras underscores the necessity of emotional regulation, especially in professional contexts. She emphasizes the importance of maintaining neutrality and not passing judgments to foster an environment of openness. This neutral stance enables intelligence to be gathered to inform decision-making. Moreover, Poumpouras stresses the value of empathy during interactions, such as interrogations, where one may strive to understand without agreeing, avoiding the projection of biases to read behavior accurately.

Managing High Emotions Through Trusted Guidance to Avoid Poor Choices

Managing one's emotional response is an essential skill, according to Poumpouras. She believes that owning your emotions and responses ensures control over situations. Poumpouras points to the practice of self-regulation as the ability to manage internal emotional surges while presenting a calm demeanor outwardly. She offers guidance to those making critical decisions driven by fear, advocating for more secure, thoughtful choices.

Confident, Authoritative Presence Comes From Self-Assurance, Not Ego

Successful Leaders Embrace Uncertainty and Don't Need all the Answers

Poumpouras contends that a successful leader is one who can embrace uncertainty and doesn't require all the answers. By being okay with not having all the information and the possibility of making incorrect decisions, a leader exudes confidence that is not based on ego but on self-assurance.

Prioritizing Team/Mission Over Personal Agenda Builds Trust and Engagement

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Emotional Intelligence and Self-Regulation

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Evy Poumpouras is a security specialist and former Secret Service agent known for her expertise in protection and security strategies. As a Secret Service agent, she was involved in high-stakes security operations and protection details for top government officials. Poumpouras leverages her experience to provide insights on emotional intelligence, self-regulation, and effective decision-making in various contexts. Her background in security and law enforcement adds credibility to her advice on managing emotions and fostering composure in challenging situations.
  • Emotional regulation in professional contexts involves managing one's emotions effectively to maintain composure and make sound decisions. It includes strategies like staying neutral, empathizing without bias, and seeking guidance to navigate high-pressure situations. Self-regulation complements emotional regulation by focusing on controlling internal emotional responses and presenting a calm outward demeanor. These skills are crucial for fostering open communication, making thoughtful choices, and building trust in professional settings.
  • Maintaining neutrality and avoiding passing judgments to foster openness means staying impartial and non-biased in your interactions. By not immediately forming opinions or criticisms, you create a space where others feel comfortable sharing their thoughts and feelings without fear of judgment. This approach encourages open communication and allows for a more objective understanding of situations. It involves setting aside personal biases and preconceptions to truly listen and comprehend others' perspectives.
  • In high-stress situations like interrogations, empathy plays a crucial role in understanding the individual's perspective without necessarily agreeing with them. This approach helps in accurately interpreting behavior and gathering valuable intelligence. Empathy in this context allows for a more nuanced and insightful assessment of the situation, contributing to effective decision-making and communication.
  • To manage high emotions through trusted guidance means seeking support and advice from someone you trust when you are ex ...

Counterarguments

  • Emotional intelligence may not always lead to effective decision-making if it results in overemphasizing consensus or avoiding necessary confrontations.
  • In some situations, neutrality might not be appropriate, such as when ethical or moral judgments are necessary.
  • Empathy, while valuable, can sometimes lead to partiality or a lack of objectivity if not balanced with critical thinking.
  • The concept of owning one's emotions, while empowering, may oversimplify complex psychological processes and the influence of external factors.
  • Self-regulation strategies might not be sufficient for individuals with certain psychological conditions or in high-stress environments without additional support.
  • The idea that guidance always leads to secure, thoughtful choices may not account for situations where guidance is biased or incorrect.
  • Asserting that a confident presence comes from self-assurance could overlook the role that external validation and feedback play in building confidence.
  • The notion that successful leaders don't need all the answers might be misinterpreted as endorsi ...

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Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

Building Strong Relationships and Support Networks

Experts share insights on the crucial role of carefully choosing one's inner circle and the preference for quality over the quantity of relationships in ensuring personal stability and growth.

Choosing Your Inner Circle Ensures Stability and Wise Choices

Evy Poumpouras and Steven Bartlett discuss the need to make deliberate choices about the people one includes in their inner circle, considering the impact these individuals have on one's life and decisions.

Surround Yourself With Supportive, Honest Individuals

Poumpouras emphasizes the importance of having strong social bonds and notes how being around highly regulated and intelligent people at NYPD aided her personal self-regulation. She highlights the necessity of having supportive and honest individuals in your inner circle, like her husband, who provides stability and wise advice. Poumpouras suggests that one's presentation can attract either manipulative individuals or those who are supportive and honest, which underscores the importance of being selective in forming relationships.

Bartlett agrees, referencing the honesty of the best leaders in his companies and the need to be surrounded by individuals who are honest. He practices a zero-tolerance level for negative behaviors, such as shouting, further underscoring the importance of a peaceful and positive support network for personal growth.

Distancing From Negative Influences, Even Family, For Growth

Poumpouras speaks about the concept of accepting individuals for who they are and stresses the need to be selective in offering help, possibly distancing oneself from those who could bring one down, which may include family members. She warns against exposing oneself to negative people and environments.

Bartlett discusses the difficult decisions surrounding distancing oneself from family members who are negative influences, describing his own experience of cutting off a family member who did not meet his relationship standards. He indicates that choosing to limit or end such toxic connections can lead to being treated better.

Quality Over Quantity of Relationships Leads To Deeper Trust

Poumpouras and Bartlett explore the idea that fewer, more meaningful relationships lead ...

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Building Strong Relationships and Support Networks

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While choosing your inner circle is important, it's also necessary to recognize the value of diverse perspectives. Being surrounded only by like-minded individuals can create an echo chamber that stifles personal growth and understanding of different viewpoints.
  • Supportive and honest individuals are indeed valuable, but it's also important to have relationships that challenge you and push you out of your comfort zone, as this can lead to personal development.
  • Being overly selective in forming relationships might lead to missed opportunities for learning from a variety of people and experiences.
  • Distancing from negative influences is generally sound advice, but it's also important to consider the potential for reconciliation and the benefits of forgiveness and understanding in certain family dynamics.
  • Quality over quantity in relationships is a common preference, but having a larger network can provide a wider range of support, opportunities, and perspectives that can be beneficial in ...

Actionables

  • Create a "relationship audit" spreadsheet to evaluate your current connections based on positivity, support, and honesty. Start by listing the names of people you interact with regularly. Next to each name, add columns for 'Support', 'Honesty', 'Influence', and 'Trust'. Rate each person on a scale of 1 to 5 for these qualities based on your experiences with them. Use this data to identify which relationships are beneficial and which might need reevaluation or distance.
  • Develop a "trust-building challenge" where you focus on deepening a relationship with one person over a month. Choose someone you believe has the potential to be a part of your inner circle. Set specific goals like having weekly in-depth conversations, engaging in a shared activity, or offering and asking for help when needed. Document the progress and evaluate the level of trust achieved at the end of the mon ...

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Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

Developing Confident, Authoritative Communication and Presence

Developing a confident, authoritative communication style and presence is essential for competence, command, and credibility.

Deliberate Speech, Gestures, and Pauses Show Competence and Command

Evy Poumpouras and Steven Bartlett discuss the importance of deliberate communication strategies to demonstrate confidence and authority.

Avoid Filler Words, Rushing, and Oversharing to Build Credibility and Keep Focus

Poumpouras stresses the importance of taking your time when speaking, as rushing can lead to mistakes. She notes that speaking slowly helps better processing and communication. She advises against diminishing the importance of what you're saying by prefacing it with phrases like, "I don't want to waste anybody's more time," and that using too many words or talking a lot can make a person appear less trustworthy and competent.

Avoiding filler words and being deliberate with gestures are crucial. Poumpouras discusses the significance of gestures, such as using hands when speaking, to keep the audience's attention, pointing out that showing hands and open hands can be seen as a sign of trustworthiness and honesty. She also discusses the importance of owning one's voice and utilizing a deeper, more authentic tone.

Bartlett notes that the value of words significantly influences how an audience perceives and listens to a speaker, suggesting that sparse but thoughtful communication can have a strong impact on audience engagement.

Tailoring Communication To Audience Boosts Engagement and Understanding

To engage an audience, it's essential to adapt your communication to their level of understanding. Poumpouras explains that when speaking, people typically retain about 49% of what is said, which means engaging the audience is crucial to ensure they are listening. By asking open-ended questions such as "Tell me," "Explain," and "Describe," Poumpouras demonstrates a method of tailoring communication to elicit detailed responses while encouraging dialogue and avoiding passive listening.

Bartlett emphasizes the effectiveness of silences, as they demonstrate confidence and can make communication more engaging. He also mentions that high retention on his podcast is associated with guests who can create a 'curiosity gap' to engage the audience immediately. Similarly, Poumpouras refers to assessing language skills and simplifying speech if necessary, suggesting that speakers need to meet listeners where they are.

Simplify to Make Messages Clear and Impactful

Simplifying communication ensures clarity and makes it easier for the audience to retain the essence of the message.

People Retain Essence, Not Details, Enabling Concise, Powerful Commun ...

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Developing Confident, Authoritative Communication and Presence

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While deliberate speech and pauses can show competence, they can also be perceived as overly rehearsed or inauthentic if overused or not matched with genuine content.
  • Avoiding filler words is generally good advice, but occasional use can make a speaker seem more relatable and less robotic, which can be beneficial in some contexts.
  • Gestures can aid communication, but excessive or unnatural gestures can distract from the message or appear disingenuous.
  • A deeper, more authentic tone is often recommended, but this advice should not encourage people to artificially lower their voice in a way that feels unnatural or uncomfortable for them.
  • Tailoring communication to the audience's understanding is important, but oversimplification can sometimes insult the audience's intelligence or leave out necessary nuances.
  • Asking open-ended questions is a good practice, but it may not always be the best approach, especially if the audience is looking for specific guidance or expertise.
  • The use of silence can be powerful, but in some cultures or situations, it might be misinterpreted as uncertainty or lack of engagement.
  • The 'curiosity gap' can be engaging, but if overused or not followed by valuable content, it can lead to disappointment or frustration.
  • Simpl ...

Actionables

  • You can practice speaking with a metronome to slow down your pace and improve your verbal delivery. Set a metronome to a slow, comfortable beat and try to align your speech with the ticks. This exercise will help you become more conscious of your speaking speed and encourage you to choose your words more deliberately.
  • Create a personal gesture dictionary by identifying hand movements that align with different types of content you communicate. For example, open hands when explaining a concept to signal honesty, or pointing upwards when discussing goals to symbolize aspiration. Use these gestures consistently in conversations to reinforce your points and appear more authoritative.
  • Engage in daily 'active listening' exercises with friends ...

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Secret Agent: Never Be Yourself At Work! Authenticity Is Quietly Sabotaging You! - Evy Poumpouras

Accepting Reality and Adapting To Circumstances

Evy Poumpouras and Steven Bartlett delve into the importance of accepting reality and the power of adaptability in face of life's challenges.

Dwelling On the Past or Making Excuses Inhibits Progress

Evy Poumpouras warns against the futility of trying to change others and stresses the importance of acceptance. She explains that the first step to progress is living in truth and accepting the current reality, which then allows for adaptability. Instead of fixating on how one wishes things were, one should deal with things as they are.

Acknowledging Difficulties Empowers Change

Poumpouras points out that adaptability involves acknowledging the real problem to determine how to proceed. She speaks of her method for handling tough training runs by focusing on short-term, smaller goals like reaching a tree or mailbox. This kind of strategy enhances resilience by tackling immediate steps.

Poumpouras believes that by not accepting the truth of a situation, like a partner's infidelity or a person's inability to change, individuals wrestle with ongoing issues. Accepting these realities can lead to more effective decision-making and empowerment.

Tough Decisions and Letting Go Enhance Agility and Resilience

When individuals accept that they cannot change others, like a partner incapable of change, they can make the tough decision of adapting to the circumstance or moving on. This is a critical step in enhancing one's agility and resilience in life. Poumpouras uses the example of decreased racial abuse over time in an individual's community and how holding onto a past identity can prevent one from moving forward.

Focusing On Controllables Leads To Effective Problem-Solving

Poumpouras discusses the concept of cognitive load, advising that people should not overwhelm themselves with tasks but instead manage their existing responsibilities well. By keeping the cognitive load light and focusing on what's controllable, individuals can avoid decision fatigue and make better decisions. Evy Poumpouras shares President Barack Obama’s strategy of having multiple identical suits to simplify decisions and manage his cognitive load.

Poumpouras e ...

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Accepting Reality and Adapting To Circumstances

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Accepting reality is important, but there can be value in critically examining past events to learn from them and prevent future mistakes.
  • While adaptability is crucial, there are circumstances where perseverance in the face of adversity, rather than adaptation, may be the more appropriate response.
  • Acknowledging difficulties is empowering, but it's also important to balance this with a positive outlook to maintain motivation and hope.
  • Sometimes, the refusal to accept a negative truth can be a driving force for change, as seen in social movements that refuse to accept unjust realities.
  • Tough decisions and letting go can enhance agility and resilience, but they can also lead to a sense of loss and grief that requires time to heal.
  • Focusing on controllables is generally effective, but it's also important to recognize and prep ...

Actionables

  • Create a "Reality Check" journal where you write down the facts of your current situation each morning. This practice helps you start the day with a clear understanding of where you stand, preventing you from getting lost in what-ifs or could-have-beens. For example, if you're facing financial challenges, note your exact income, expenses, and debts to ground your decisions in reality.
  • Develop a "Micro-Goal Map" for the week, breaking down a larger goal into daily bite-sized tasks. This can transform an overwhelming objective into manageable steps, fostering a sense of achievement and progress. If your goal is to get healthier, your map might include specific daily water intake, step counts, or vegetable servings.
  • Initiate a "Control Circle" exerc ...

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