Podcasts > The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett > Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

By Steven Bartlett

In this episode of The Diary Of A CEO, former FBI agent Joe Navarro draws from his 25-year career in counterintelligence to share insights about human behavior and communication. Drawing from his experience developing the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Program, Navarro explains how nonverbal cues—from subtle facial movements to body positioning—can reveal people's true emotions and intentions.

The discussion covers practical applications of behavioral analysis in everyday situations. Navarro explains strategies for developing genuine confidence, improving interpersonal communication, and navigating interactions with difficult personalities. He also shares specific techniques for handling high-stakes negotiations, including how to create favorable environments through careful consideration of factors like seating arrangements and conversation pacing.

Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

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Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

1-Page Summary

Joe Navarro reflects on his 25-year FBI career specializing in counterintelligence and spy capture. As one of six agents chosen to develop the FBI's Behavioral Analysis Program in 1989-1990, Navarro applied his expertise to identify national security threats and extract valuable information from spies and terrorists. His work included high-stakes cases that potentially impacted Western security, including successfully converting spies to collaborate with the FBI.

The Importance of Nonverbal Communication and Body Language

Navarro explains how nonverbal communication significantly impacts human interaction. He demonstrates how subtle cues, such as a quivering cigarette or furrowed glabella (the area between eyebrows), can reveal genuine emotions and intentions. According to Navarro, these nonverbal behaviors are evolutionary heuristics hardwired into humans. He notes that even blind children exhibit instinctive nonverbal responses, such as covering their eyes when receiving bad news, proving these behaviors are innate rather than learned.

Techniques For Developing Confidence and Effective Interpersonal Skills

Navarro emphasizes that confidence isn't innate but can be developed through practice. He recommends building expertise in specific areas and focusing on nonverbal elements like tone, posture, and gestures to project confidence. For effective communication, Navarro highlights the importance of psychological comfort, active listening, and controlling conversation pace. He explains that proper use of nonverbal cues, including eye contact and seating arrangements, can significantly impact communication outcomes.

When dealing with narcissistic individuals, Navarro advises against trying to "win" and suggests prioritizing self-preservation by removing oneself from toxic situations. For negotiations, he emphasizes thorough preparation and leveraging nonverbal techniques through environment control and seating arrangements. Navarro suggests that successful negotiations should aim for outcomes where all parties feel comfortable, even if they don't achieve everything they want.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While nonverbal communication is significant, it is not the only factor in human interaction; verbal communication and context also play crucial roles.
  • The interpretation of nonverbal cues like a quivering cigarette or furrowed glabella can be subjective and may not always accurately reflect a person's emotions or intentions.
  • The idea that nonverbal behaviors are entirely hardwired and innate may be too simplistic, as cultural factors and personal experiences can also influence these behaviors.
  • While blind children exhibiting nonverbal responses supports the idea of innate behaviors, it does not account for the possibility of learned behaviors through other sensory inputs or socialization.
  • Confidence-building techniques focusing on nonverbal elements may not address underlying issues such as anxiety or self-esteem that can affect confidence.
  • The effectiveness of nonverbal cues in communication can vary greatly among different cultures and individuals, so a one-size-fits-all approach may not be appropriate.
  • The advice to remove oneself from toxic situations when dealing with narcissistic individuals may not always be feasible, especially in professional settings where one must navigate complex power dynamics.
  • The emphasis on thorough preparation and nonverbal techniques in negotiations may overlook the importance of adaptability and the ability to think on one's feet when unexpected issues arise.
  • The goal of achieving comfortable outcomes for all parties in negotiations may not always be realistic, as some negotiations inherently involve zero-sum situations where one party's gain is another's loss.

Actionables

  • You can enhance your nonverbal communication skills by practicing in front of a mirror to become more aware of your own expressions and gestures. For example, work on maintaining steady eye contact or using hand gestures that convey openness and confidence. This self-observation can help you adjust your body language to be more effective in personal and professional interactions.
  • Develop a habit of observing nonverbal cues in others by watching silent films or muted television scenes, focusing on how actors express emotions and intentions without words. Take notes on specific behaviors, such as posture changes or facial expressions, that indicate different feelings or reactions. This exercise can sharpen your ability to read subtle nonverbal signals in real-life situations.
  • Create a personal feedback loop by asking close friends or family members to give you honest feedback on your nonverbal communication during casual conversations. They can point out habits you may not be aware of, like fidgeting or avoiding eye contact when discussing certain topics. Use this feedback to consciously improve how you present yourself and engage with others.

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Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

Navarro's Expertise in FBI Behavioral Analysis

Joe Navarro is a seasoned expert with extensive experience in behavioral analysis, reflecting on his career highlights including his efforts in counterintelligence and capturing spies.

Navarro brings attention to his lengthy career in law enforcement and behavioral analysis.

25-year FBI Veteran Specializing in Counterintelligence and Spy Capture

With a strong background in law enforcement, Navarro served 25 years in the FBI, concentrating on counterintelligence and espionage cases. Throughout his service, he recounts sitting with spies and enemies of the United States, navigating the high-stakes environment of national security. Navarro reflects on capturing a spy who had been meticulously trained to act as an American, which was geared towards espionage or sabotage if hostilities arose, highlighting the critical nature of his role.

Co-developed FBI Behavioral Analysis Program to Identify Threats

Navarro was among six agents handpicked to shape a nascent behavioral analysis program focused on distinguishing national security risks. Launched around 1989-1990, the program aimed to leverage understanding of human behavior in identifying and defusing threats to national security. Navarro was instrumental in employing behavioral knowledge to elicit confessions and details from captured spies and terrorists.

He speaks of interviewing Roderick James Ramsey, a former U.S. Army sergeant entangled in espionage, as well as other high-profile cases that underscore the gravity and influence of these individuals' actions on national security.

Interviewed Terrorists, Spies, and High-Profile Individuals for Valuable Information Extraction

In one particular case Navarro discusses, the actions of the individ ...

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Navarro's Expertise in FBI Behavioral Analysis

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Clarifications

  • Joe Navarro had a distinguished 25-year career in the FBI, specializing in counterintelligence and espionage cases. He played a key role in developing the FBI's behavioral analysis program to identify national security threats. Navarro conducted interviews with spies, terrorists, and high-profile individuals to extract valuable information for national security purposes. His expertise in nonverbal communication and high-stakes negotiations was crucial for gathering critical intelligence during his tenure at the FBI.
  • The FBI Behavioral Analysis Program, developed around 1989-1990, aimed to use insights into human behavior to identify and mitigate national security threats. Joe Navarro, a key figure in the program's creation, utilized behavioral knowledge to extract crucial information from captured spies and terrorists. The program focused on distinguishing behaviors indicative of national security risks, aiding in the prevention and resolution of espionage and other threats. Navarro's involvement in the program highlights his expertise in applying behavioral analysis techniques to law enforcement and intelligence operations.
  • In the context of national security and espionage cases, the term "high-stakes environment" signifies situations where the consequences of actions can have significant impacts on a country's safety and well-being. Espionage involves clandestine activities where individuals gather sensitive information for a foreign entity, posing serious threats to national security. The high stakes in these cases arise from the potential harm that espionage activities can inflict on a nation's interests, including political, economic, and military repercussions. The intricate nature of espionage and the constant need to safeguard classified information heighten the intensity and risks involved in addressing such cases.
  • Navarro conducted interviews with individuals like terrorists and spies to extract valuable information related to national security threats. These interactions involved engaging with subjects to uncover critical intelligence that could prevent potential harm or attacks. Through his adeptness in communication and behavioral analysis, Navarro successfully obtained confessions and details from these high-profile individuals. His skills in extractin ...

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Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

The Importance of Nonverbal Communication and Body Language

Former FBI agent Joe Navarro and entrepreneur Steven Bartlett delve into the significance of nonverbal communication and body language in human interaction, revealing how gestures, facial expressions, and postures reveal emotions and intentions, and can provide a distinct advantage in various situations.

Humans Communicate Significantly Through Nonverbal Cues

Joe Navarro demonstrates the vast impact of nonverbal communication on human relationships and negotiation scenarios. He sheds light on several nonverbal cues and their interpretive values in understanding human behavior and emotions.

Facial Expressions, Gestures, and Posture Reveal Emotions and Intentions

Joe Navarro recounts numerous instances where nonverbal cues have been vital in revealing a person's true state of mind. For example, during an interview with an individual named Ramsey, Navarro observed his cigarette quivering when a particular name was mentioned, hinting at a significant physiological change. Further investigation confirmed that such nonverbals offered insights into the individual's internal processing and helped affirm Navarro's suspicions.

Joe Navarro discusses the glabella, the area between the eyebrows, highlighting that from a young age, humans furrow this area when experiencing doubt, dislike, or confusion, indicating that nonverbal expressions are highly informative. Children who are born blind, he notes, will cover their eyes when receiving unfavorable news, evidencing nonverbal responses as instinctive reactions. Similarly, the fullness of lips or their narrowing can correspond with comfort or discomfort, providing further insight into an individual's emotional state.

Navarro also emphasizes how a still face, whether in a virtual call or during negociations, can create a negative perception of being a threat or untrustworthy. He refers to "still face experiments" where both babies and adults become distressed by a lack of facial expressions, which are interpreted as threatening and cause a loss of trust.

Nonverbal Cues, Like a Quivering Cigarette, Offer Insights

Navarro provides examples such as a furrowed chin in response to unpleasant stimuli, illustrating the consistency of facial expressions of discomfort across ages. He points out that nonverbal behaviors are evolutionary heuristics hardwired into humans as defenses against predators, and today these cues can reflect individuals' comfort or discomfort.

He even discusses specific behaviors observed during espionage work, where a single nonverbal cue like repeatedly glancing at one's watch or the manner of holding a bouquet of flowers signaled important information about a spy's background and intentions, underscoring the value of nonverbal insights in profiling.

Mastering Nonverbal Signals Provides an Advantage

Navarro posits that understanding and being proficient in interpreting body language grants significant advantages in everyday life. He explains that people who can read circumstances and other individuals quickly through nonverbal cues ...

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The Importance of Nonverbal Communication and Body Language

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Counterarguments

  • Nonverbal communication, while significant, is not the only factor in understanding human interactions; verbal communication and context are also crucial.
  • Facial expressions and gestures can be ambiguous and subject to cultural differences, which can lead to misinterpretation.
  • Nonverbal cues may offer insights, but relying solely on them can result in confirmation bias or misjudgment, especially if not corroborated by other evidence.
  • While nonverbal behaviors may have evolutionary roots, the interpretation of these cues can be influenced by socialization and individual differences.
  • Mastering nonverbal signals can be advantageous, but overemphasis on body language can detract from the content of the message or lead to manipulation.
  • The ability to interpret body language varies among individuals, and not everyone may have the same level of proficiency or innate skill.
  • In a digital society, nonverbal communication can be less relevant in text-based interactions, wh ...

Actionables

  • You can enhance your emotional intelligence by practicing mirroring techniques during conversations. Start by subtly copying the body language, gestures, or facial expressions of the person you're speaking with. This can create a sense of empathy and understanding, as people often feel more connected to those who reflect their own nonverbal cues. For example, if someone leans forward when they're interested, do the same to show your engagement.
  • Improve your digital communication by incorporating emojis and punctuation to convey tone and nonverbal intent. When texting or emailing, choose emojis that match the emotional undertone of your message to reduce ambiguity. For instance, a smiley face can soften a request, while an exclamation mark can convey enthusiasm. This helps mimic the nonverbal cues that are missing in digital communication.
  • Develop a habit of observing nonverbal beha ...

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Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

Techniques For Developing Confidence and Effective Interpersonal Skills

As Joe Navarro explains, confidence is not an innate trait but a skill that can be developed over time with practice and awareness of both verbal and nonverbal communication.

Confidence Can Be Trained and Developed Over Time

Focus On Expertise and Skills

Navarro recommends gaining confidence by starting with one small thing and then building from there. Being well-read on subjects before meetings can change the dynamics, especially for individuals who are initially nervous and unsure. He discusses self-mastery through personal examples and historical figures, showing dedication to learning builds expertise and confidence in one's skills over time.

Use Tone, Posture, and Gestures to Project Confidence

Navarro signals the power of nonverbal communication in projecting confidence. Using gestures, controlling the tone of voice, and adopting a proper posture are important. For instance, projecting an image of calmness and assurance in situations such as negotiations is crucial for success. Navarro advises against speaking too fast or in a high pitch when trying to exhibit confidence, suggesting that a lower pitch and taking up space with a proper posture express self-assurance.

Mirror Confident Individuals to Build Self-Assurance

Navarro suggests looking at confident leaders and mimicking their behaviors to build confidence. He talks about synchronizing nonverbal behaviors such as hand gestures and leaning in to match the other person, which also helps build rapport. He emphasizes adopting behaviors and skills from role models can contribute to personal growth and self-assurance.

Effective Communication and Rapport Are Essential for Success

Navarro highlights the importance of being good at observing as a key skill for success. Connecting properly with others and maintaining those connections underlines the essence of effective communication and rapport.

Active Listening, Empathy, and Psychological Comfort Are Key

The importance of psychological comfort in communication is underscored by illustrating examples like Steve Jobs making computer ...

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Techniques For Developing Confidence and Effective Interpersonal Skills

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Counterarguments

  • While confidence can be developed, some individuals may have a predisposition towards confidence due to their personality traits or early life experiences, suggesting that innate factors can also play a role.
  • Focusing on expertise and skills is important, but overemphasis on knowledge can lead to information overload and increased anxiety for some individuals, potentially undermining confidence.
  • Projecting confidence through nonverbal cues is effective, but it must be authentic; otherwise, it can come across as insincere or manipulative, which can damage interpersonal relationships.
  • Mirroring confident individuals can be a useful strategy, but it's important to maintain one's individuality and authenticity rather than simply copying others.
  • Effective communication and rapport are indeed essential, but there can be cultural differences in communication styles that may require more nuanced approaches than those suggested.
  • Active listening and empathy are key, but they must be balanced with assertiveness in some situations to ensure one's own needs are also met.
  • Controlling the pace and flow of a conversation to establish dominance might not always be appropriate or ethical, especially in collaborative settings where power dy ...

Actionables

  • You can practice confidence by recording yourself during a mock presentation and then reviewing the footage to observe and improve your nonverbal cues. Set up a camera and give a short talk on a topic you're passionate about. Watch the recording to see how you use gestures, eye contact, and posture. Note areas for improvement, like avoiding slouching or making more consistent eye contact, and practice these changes in your next mock presentation.
  • Develop your observational skills by engaging in people-watching exercises in public spaces. Choose a busy location like a park or a coffee shop and discreetly observe the interactions around you. Pay attention to how individuals use body language, make eye contact, and control their vocal pace when communicating. Take mental notes on techniques that convey confidence and consider how you can incorporate similar behaviors into your own interactions.
  • Enhance your conversational control by initiating and leadin ...

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Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You! They're Controlling You Like A Puppet!

Navigating Difficult Personalities and High-Stakes Negotiations

Joe Navarro and Bartlett provide insights into dealing with difficult personalities, particularly those exhibiting traits of narcissism, and share strategies for engaging in effective, high-stakes negotiations to produce equitable outcomes for all parties involved.

Recognizing and Dealing With Narcissistic or Toxic Individuals

Understanding Narcissism Characteristics and Manifestation in Behavior

Navarro speaks about how individuals with narcissistic tendencies can be challenging to work with. These individuals might overvalue themselves and devalue others. They exhibit traits like being self-centered, disloyal, and disinterested in others' personal affairs but demand attention. They can be deceiving and display harmful, toxic behavior.

Avoid "Winning" Against a Narcissist; They're Unlikely to Change

Navarro cautions against attempting to "win" against narcissists, acknowledging that they are unlikely to change due to the severe flaws in their character and lack of introspection. These individuals view themselves as perfect and are not aware of any imperfections.

Prioritize Your Well-Being; Consider Removal From the Situation

These interactions can be toxic and potentially lead to victimization. Navarro advises setting limits on endurance of such behavior and taking steps to remove oneself from the situation. There's no cure for narcissism or a way to make narcissists like you, so self-preservation by exiting the situation is crucial for personal well-being.

Strategies for Effective Negotiation

Prepare: Plan Logistics and Interaction Flow

Navarro stresses the importance of thorough preparation before entering a negotiation—understanding who you will be communicating with, their negotiating style, and the logistics of the interaction.

Leverage Nonverbal Techniques: Environment, Seating, and Pacing

Navarro notes the usefulness of nonverbal techniques such as environment control, ...

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Navigating Difficult Personalities and High-Stakes Negotiations

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Counterarguments

  • While narcissists may have traits that are difficult to manage, it's important to recognize that narcissism exists on a spectrum, and not all individuals with narcissistic traits will exhibit them to a harmful degree. Some may be capable of change with the right interventions.
  • The assertion that narcissists are unlikely to change might be overly deterministic. With therapy and personal effort, some individuals with narcissistic tendencies can learn to understand and manage their behaviors.
  • Removing oneself from a situation involving a narcissist may not always be feasible, especially in professional settings where collaboration is necessary. Alternative strategies, such as setting clear boundaries and using structured communication, might be required.
  • While preparation is key in negotiations, over-preparation can lead to inflexibility. Being too attached to a preconceived plan may hinder one's ability to adapt to new information or changing circumstances during the negotiation process.
  • Nonverbal techniques are important, but they should not overshadow the substance of the negotiation. Overemphasis on nonverbal cues can lead to misinterpretation and may not be as effective across d ...

Actionables

- You can create a personal boundary blueprint to handle interactions with difficult individuals by listing specific behaviors you won't tolerate and actions you'll take if they occur, such as walking away from a conversation or declining to engage in a project.

  • By having a clear set of boundaries, you'll be better equipped to maintain your well-being when dealing with people who exhibit challenging traits. For example, if someone consistently interrupts you, your blueprint might include a polite but firm request to finish speaking before they respond.
  • Develop a negotiation preparation worksheet that prompts you to research the other party's background, interests, and negotiation style, as well as logistical aspects like location and timing.
  • This worksheet will serve as a guide to ensure you're fully prepared for any negotiation scenario. For instance, if you're negotiating a raise, the worksheet could include sections for understanding your manager's negotiation tendencies, the best time to schedule the meeting, and the ideal setting to foster a collaborative atmosphere.
  • Practice setting up your negotiation space at ho ...

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