Podcasts > The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett > Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

By Steven Bartlett

On The Diary Of A CEO podcast, Jordan Peterson asserts that modern society has moved away from traditional Judeo-Christian values and community institutions, leaving many feeling ungrounded. He argues religion fulfills deep human psychological needs by providing meaning, identity, and motivation for valuing sacrifice and facing challenges - values he sees as essential for healthy relationships and a fulfilling life.

Peterson also criticizes individualism and hedonistic pursuits like pornography as undermining traditions that bring people together. He suggests adopting a more balanced approach of considering both personal and community needs through commitment and sacrifice.

Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

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Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

1-Page Summary

Decline of Religion and Community in Modern Society

According to Jordan Peterson, modern individualism is weakening society's shared foundations of Judeo-Christian values, eroding traditional social identities and leaving many feeling ungrounded and lacking meaning. Peterson suggests this absence of shared values promotes nihilism and selfishness over collective well-being. Furthermore, the decline of traditional institutions leaves many without former sources of community support.

God, Religion, and Meaning In Human Psychology and Relationships

Peterson argues belief in the divine fulfills deep psychological needs, with religious narratives revealing profound insights into human purpose and yearnings. Belief provides social unity and identity, while religion fosters commitment and sacrifice vital for relationships and well-being. Mental health relies more on social bonds than belief coherence.

Sacrifice, Challenge, and Suffering In a Meaningful Life

Peterson criticizes excessive pleasure-seeking through pornography or hedonistic pursuits as unsatisfying, arguing genuine growth requires confronting difficulty. He views facing hardship as transformative, suggesting concepts like Christ's Passion exemplify embracing suffering for spiritual progress. Long-term commitments like marriage demand sacrifice for others but provide stability.

The Negative Impact of Hedonism and Individualism

Peterson identifies pornography as catastrophic for relationships, potentially reducing motivation for real romance. More broadly, he condemns hedonism's focus on immediate gratification as meaningless and unsustainable. Excessive individualism undermines traditions that unify society. Peterson advocates balancing personal and community needs through sacrifice and challenges.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Jordan Peterson is a Canadian psychologist and professor known for his conservative views on cultural and political issues. He gained widespread attention for his critiques of political correctness and his stance on free speech. Peterson's self-help book "12 Rules for Life" became a bestseller, where he emphasizes personal responsibility and traditional values. He often discusses the importance of mythology, religion, and individualism in shaping personal identity and societal structures.
  • Modern individualism is often seen as prioritizing personal freedom and autonomy over collective values. Judeo-Christian values, rooted in the traditions of Judaism and Christianity, emphasize principles like compassion, justice, and moral responsibility. Some argue that the decline of these shared religious values in modern society has contributed to a weakening of the sense of community and common purpose, as individualism can sometimes conflict with the communal aspects emphasized in Judeo-Christian teachings. This shift has led to debates about the impact of individualism on societal cohesion and the moral fabric of communities.
  • Nihilism is a philosophical belief that life lacks inherent meaning, purpose, or value. It suggests that traditional values and beliefs are baseless, leading to a sense of emptiness or despair. Nihilism can result in a rejection of moral principles and societal norms, emphasizing a bleak outlook on existence. It challenges individuals to find personal meaning in a world perceived as fundamentally meaningless.
  • Traditional institutions, such as religious organizations, community centers, and social clubs, historically played a crucial role in providing community support by offering a sense of belonging, shared values, and social connections. These institutions often served as platforms for individuals to come together, interact, and support one another in times of need, fostering a sense of unity and solidarity within the community. They also provided avenues for collective activities, rituals, and traditions that helped strengthen social bonds and promote a sense of identity and purpose among members. As these institutions decline, individuals may experience a loss of community ties, support networks, and shared experiences that were once integral to their sense of belonging and well-being.
  • Belief in the divine fulfills psychological needs by providing a sense of purpose, meaning, and order in the world. It offers comfort in times of uncertainty, a framework for understanding life's challenges, and a source of hope and guidance. The concept of a higher power can alleviate existential fears, offer a sense of connection to something greater, and provide a moral compass for decision-making. Additionally, religious beliefs often create a sense of community and belonging, fostering social connections and support networks.
  • The relationship between mental health, social bonds, and belief coherence is complex. Social bonds play a crucial role in mental well-being by providing support and a sense of belonging. Belief coherence, or having a consistent set of beliefs, can contribute to mental health by providing a framework for understanding the world and one's place in it. However, the quality of social connections and the nature of beliefs can vary in their impact on mental health, with some relationships and beliefs being more beneficial than others.
  • Confronting difficulty is essential for personal growth as it challenges individuals to develop resilience, problem-solving skills, and emotional maturity. By facing and overcoming obstacles, individuals can learn valuable lessons, gain confidence, and discover their inner strength. Embracing challenges fosters self-improvement and can lead to a deeper understanding of oneself and the world. It is through adversity that individuals often find opportunities for growth, transformation, and a sense of accomplishment.
  • Christ's Passion, in Christian theology, represents the suffering and crucifixion of Jesus Christ. It is seen as a profound example of selflessness, sacrifice, and endurance in the face of immense pain and adversity. Followers believe that by understanding and accepting Christ's suffering, individuals can find spiritual growth, redemption, and a deeper connection to their faith. The concept emphasizes the idea that enduring suffering with grace and faith can lead to personal transformation and a closer relationship with God.

Counterarguments

  • Modern individualism may also empower individuals to find their own values and moral compass, leading to a more authentic and self-determined life.
  • Shared values can evolve and do not necessarily have to be rooted in Judeo-Christian traditions to provide meaning and community.
  • The rise of global connectivity and online communities can offer new forms of support and social identity, compensating for the decline of traditional institutions.
  • Psychological needs can be fulfilled through various secular philosophies and ideologies that do not rely on belief in the divine.
  • Profound insights into human purpose and yearnings can also be found in non-religious narratives, such as those from philosophy, literature, and science.
  • Social unity and identity can be fostered by shared humanistic values, civic engagement, and cultural traditions beyond religious frameworks.
  • Commitment and sacrifice can be motivated by secular ethics, love, and rational considerations about the benefits of cooperation and social cohesion.
  • Mental health can be supported by a coherent belief system, whether religious or secular, as long as it provides a sense of meaning and connection.
  • Pleasure-seeking behaviors, including the consumption of pornography, can be part of a balanced and healthy life when approached with moderation and ethical considerations.
  • Personal growth can also be achieved through positive experiences, education, and the pursuit of happiness, not solely through confronting difficulty.
  • Alternative interpretations of suffering suggest that it should be alleviated wherever possible, and personal well-being should be prioritized.
  • The concept of sacrifice in relationships can be balanced with self-care and personal fulfillment, avoiding the potential for self-neglect or martyrdom.
  • Relationships can thrive without traditional structures like marriage, through open communication, mutual respect, and adaptability.
  • Hedonism, in moderation, can contribute to a well-rounded life, and the pursuit of pleasure can coexist with meaningful, long-term goals.
  • Individualism can coexist with community values, and the two can mutually reinforce each other, leading to a society that values both personal freedom and social responsibility.
  • Balancing personal and community needs does not always require sacrifice; it can also be achieved through mutual support, collaboration, and respect for individual autonomy.

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Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

Decline of Religion and Community in Modern Society

Jordan Peterson presents the idea that as modern society becomes more individualistic, it is experiencing a weakening of shared values and community foundations, which is leading to a decline in religion and a struggle to find meaning and connection.

Modern Society Grows Individualistic, With Shared Values and Community Foundations Weakening

Individualism's Experiment Relies On Eroding Judeo-Christian Values, Leading To Drift and Isolation

Peterson suggests that the liberal experiment in individualism only thrives when grounded in a conservative foundation of Judeo-Christian values, which currently appears to be eroding. This erosion has prompted a feeling of drift and isolation within individuals.

Individualism Erodes Traditional Social Identities, Leaving Many Ungrounded and Lacking Meaning

He also states that modern liberal individualism fails to account for identity as part of a hierarchy that extends beyond oneself to multiple layers of social connections, resulting in a loss of traditional social identities. Such individualism is leaving people feeling ungrounded and lacking meaning because it overlooks the complexity of how individuals relate to wider society.

Breakdown of Community and Religious Structures Leaves Struggle For Meaning and Connection

Loss of Shared Values Fuels Nihilism, Hedonism, and Individual Over Collective Well-Being

Peterson goes on to say that the absence of shared values and the decline of community and religious ...

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Decline of Religion and Community in Modern Society

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Clarifications

  • Jordan Peterson argues that modern society's shift towards individualism is causing a decline in shared values and community connections, leading to feelings of isolation and a search for meaning. He emphasizes the importance of traditional Judeo-Christian values as a foundation for successful individualism, highlighting the potential consequences of their erosion. Peterson also discusses how the breakdown of community and religious structures can contribute to nihilism and hedonism, impacting both individual and collective well-being. Additionally, he points out the challenges individuals face when traditional social institutions weaken, leaving many without the support and sense of community they once provided.
  • Liberal individualism, as discussed by Jordan Peterson, is seen as reliant on a foundation of conservative Judeo-Christian values. Peterson suggests that the success of individualism is tied to the moral and ethical principles historically rooted in Judeo-Christian traditions. The erosion of these values can lead to a sense of drift and isolation in individuals within a more individualistic society. This relationship highlights the interconnectedness of philosophical and moral frameworks in shaping societal structures and individual experiences.
  • The decline of community and religious structures can lead to feelings of isolation, a lack of shared values, and a struggle to find meaning and connection. This decline may contribute to the rise of nihilism, hedonism, and a focus on individual well-being over collective welfare. Additionally, without the support traditionally provided by these institutions, individuals may feel increasing ...

Counterarguments

  • Individualism can foster personal responsibility and self-determination, which can lead to positive social change and innovation.
  • Shared values and community foundations can evolve rather than simply weaken, adapting to new cultural and societal norms.
  • The erosion of Judeo-Christian values is not universally seen as negative, as it may allow for greater religious pluralism and acceptance of diverse beliefs.
  • Liberal individualism can be grounded in a variety of ethical frameworks, not exclusively conservative or Judeo-Christian ones.
  • Modern individualism includes the concept of intersectionality, which acknowledges multiple facets of identity and how they interact with systems of power and oppression.
  • People may find meaning and grounding in non-traditional ways, such as through personal development, secular humanism, or alternative spiritual practices.
  • The breakdown of traditional community and religious structures can lead to the formation of new typ ...

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Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

God, Religion, and Meaning In Human Psychology and Relationships

Steven Bartlett and Jordan Peterson delve into the depths of human psyche and the role of religion in providing meaning, purpose, and structure in life.

Belief in God or a Higher Power Tied To Psychological Need For Meaning and Purpose

Stories and Narratives in Religious Traditions Like the Bible Reveal Profound Insights Into the Human Condition and Our Deepest Yearnings

Jordan Peterson discusses the significance of moving towards a goal and identifies the "divine" as the pinnacle in the hierarchy of values, representing the ultimate good. He explores the weighty meanings in religious narratives, like the story of Abraham, referring to it as a "voice of adventure" or a call to embark upon life's quests. Peterson insists that these stories and characters epitomize humanity's relentless quest for meaning and embody principles that ensure the propagation and success of one's lineage.

Divine Belief Unifies, Providing Identity and Social Cohesion

Divine belief comes across as a unifying force, offering identity and social cohesion. Peterson emphasizes the impact of religious traditions on humanity’s understanding of psyche, society, and the natural world, hinting at a profound depth that even underlies nature itself. Religious beliefs and the divine are portrayed at the apex of the hierarchy of goodness, which helps provide people with a unified sense of purpose, bolstering societal and community cohesion.

Strong Relationships and Identity Crucial for Well-Being

Mental Health Relies More On Social Connections Than Internal Belief Coherence

Peterson touches upon mental health, asserting that it heavily relies on social connections rather than the coherence of internal beliefs. He argues that mental health stems from harmonious relationships at all levels of one's identity, from the individual to the national level. Social structures are vital for mental well-being; isolation and excessive self-focus can lead to negative emotions and suffering.

Religions Foster Sacrifice and Commitment in Relationships

The discussion ventures into the essence of religious beliefs in fostering robust relationships and identities, deemed crucial for personal well-being ...

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God, Religion, and Meaning In Human Psychology and Relationships

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Counterarguments

  • Religious narratives may offer insights, but they are not the only source of profound understanding of the human condition; literature, philosophy, and science also provide significant perspectives.
  • Some individuals find meaning and purpose through secular ideologies, personal goals, or humanistic values without belief in a higher power.
  • While divine belief can unify, it can also divide, leading to sectarianism and conflict when different religious identities clash.
  • The concept of a hierarchy of goodness with divine belief at the apex is subjective and may not be universally accepted; ethical systems can be based on secular humanism or other philosophies.
  • Strong relationships and identity can be fostered by secular communities and ideologies wit ...

Actionables

  • You can start a personal reflection journal focusing on daily experiences that resonate with your sense of purpose and meaning. Each evening, write down moments or interactions that made you feel connected to something greater than yourself. This could be a kind gesture from a stranger, a feeling of awe in nature, or a sense of accomplishment in your work. Over time, this journal can help you identify patterns in what gives you a sense of purpose and how your actions align with your values.
  • Create a "unity map" by drawing connections between your relationships and shared beliefs or values. On a large piece of paper, place yourself at the center and draw lines to friends, family, and community members, noting shared beliefs or values next to each line. This visual representation can help you see the social cohesion in your life and might inspire you to strengthen these connections through shared activities or conversations about common beliefs.
  • Volun ...

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Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

Sacrifice, Challenge, and Suffering In a Meaningful Life

Jordan Peterson discusses the importance of confronting challenges and making sacrifices to live a meaningful life. He expresses concern with cultural trends that prioritize pleasure over growth, highlighting the transformative power of hardship.

Humans Are Built For Challenge and Growth

Seeking Easy Gratification Through Pornography or Hedonism Leads To an Unsatisfying Life

Peterson states that people's misunderstanding of seeking pleasure, such as consuming pornography, for maximal fulfillment leads to an unsatisfactory life. He suggests that pornography and other hedonistic endeavors offer momentary gratification but come with medium to long-term costs, creating an unsatisfying existence. Peterson even suggests that overreliance on novel pleasure, such as with pornography, can negatively affect long-term commitments like marriage.

Facing Hardship, Shedding Immaturity Key To Personal Transformation

Peterson argues that facing challenges is fundamental for growth. He uses the notion of a quest and "Jacob's ladder" as metaphors for personal development and suggests that overcoming hardships and embracing maturity are essential for progress. Peterson advises starting with small, achievable steps that challenge an individual's abilities to foster growth. He criticizes avoiding struggles in favor of easy lives, implying that such avoidance can perpetuate immaturity and inhibit transformation. By surpassing one's limits and enduring suffering, argues Peterson, one can find true self-discovery and purpose.

Self-Sacrifice for Higher Goals Underpins Psychological, Social, and Spiritual Stability

Peterson and Steven Bartlett agree that the principles of sacrifice and challenge are necessary for human progression.

Christ's Passion Exemplifies Confronting and Welcoming Difficult Trials

Discussing the concept of voluntary sacrifice, Peterson reflects on the Passion of Christ as the ultimate form of embracing suffering. This narrative suggests that there is redemptive power in willingly facing trials and adversities.

Long-Term Orientation and Sacrifice For Family, Community, and Values Are Key

Peterson emphasizes the importance of long-term planning and dedication to family and community. He praises the biblical figure of Noah for balancing his personal needs with the needs of others, suggesting that this type of wisdom encourages acceptance of responsibility and supports the well-being of larger comm ...

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Sacrifice, Challenge, and Suffering In a Meaningful Life

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Counterarguments

  • The pursuit of pleasure can be part of a balanced and meaningful life when done in moderation and not at the expense of other values.
  • Some psychological theories suggest that not all hedonistic activities are detrimental and can contribute to well-being if they are part of a rich and varied life.
  • The impact of pornography on relationships is complex and can vary greatly among individuals and couples; it is not universally negative.
  • Personal growth can also occur through positive experiences and not just through hardship and suffering.
  • Avoiding unnecessary struggles can sometimes be a rational choice to preserve mental health and well-being.
  • The concept of sacrifice is culturally relative, and what constitutes a meaningful sacrifice can differ widely between individuals and cultures.
  • The narrative of Christ's Passion as a model for confronting trials may not resonate with individuals of different faiths or those who are non-religious.
  • Long-term planning and sacrifice for family and community are important, but so is ensuring personal fulfillment and happiness.
  • Structured systems of ethics can be restrictive and may not accommodate the diversity of human experiences and moral beliefs.
  • The idea that ...

Actionables

  • You can create a "Challenge Calendar" where each month you focus on a new personal challenge that aligns with your values and promotes growth. Start with something small, like reading a book on a topic that challenges your current understanding, and gradually increase the difficulty to activities like volunteering for a cause that's important to you or learning a new skill that requires dedication. This method encourages you to step out of your comfort zone regularly and track your progress, reinforcing the idea that facing and overcoming challenges is rewarding.
  • Develop a "Sacrifice Swap" practice where you exchange a habitual pleasure for a constructive activity that benefits others. For instance, instead of spending an evening watching TV, use that time to cook a meal for a family member or write a handwritten letter to a friend. This swap not only helps you practice voluntary sacrifice but also strengthens your connections with others and reinforces the importance of community and long-term relationships.
  • Initiate a "Mortality Reflection" ...

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Jordan B Peterson: You Need To Listen To Your Wife! We've Built A Lonely & Sexless Society! If You & Your Partner Do This, You'll Divorce!

The Negative Impact of Hedonism and Individualism

Jordan Peterson and Steven Bartlett delve into the adverse effects of hedonism and excessive individualism on personal development, relationships, and societal values.

Hedonism and Pornography Devastate Human Relationships

Peterson notes the catastrophic impact of pornography on human relationships. He posits that pornography removes the desperation required for life's true adventure, which encompasses love, shame, guilt, and pain. He warns against taking the easy road, such as avoiding conflict, which can result in self-loathing.

Pornography Reduces Young People's Motivation for Real Romantic Relationships

Peterson argues that pornography consumption may lower men's motivation to pursue romantic relationships with women, as it can lead to a lack of motivation for self-improvement and could cause people to betray the most fundamental aspects of life, including relationships and romance. He expresses the outrage people feel towards pornography’s destructive personal impact. Concerns are raised about the potential distortion of young people's perceptions and motivations toward real romantic relationships due to pornography, as it provides effortless gratification.

Hedonistic Pursuits Offering Immediate Gratification Lack Meaning, Leaving People Unsatisfied

Peterson cautions that engaging with pornography caters to one’s weakest part and is detrimental to both personal development and relationships. He and Bartlett discuss how hedonism, in the context of pornography, affects people's ability to focus on discipline and the long term. Peterson agrees that the rise in "sexlessness" is a problem, suggesting that instant gratification can leave individuals feeling empty and contribute to societal issues. Bartlett extends the concern to impulsive actions like unhealthy eating or excessive social media use, which may provide temporary relief but are regretted later. Peterson criticizes the postmodernist approach to life focused on self-gratification, stating it defeats itself and isn't sustainable.

Excessive Individualism Undermines Traditional Social Structures and Values

Discussing the consequences of an increasingly individualistic world, Peterson suggests that excessive focus on the self can lead to feelings of isolation and undermine cooperation within a community.

Decline of Shared Narratives Fuels Isolation Through Focus on Individual Rights Over Responsibilities

Peterson criticizes the idea that individuals can create their own values, arguing that it undermines the stable, shared traditions and structures that provide societal cohesion. He insists on ...

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The Negative Impact of Hedonism and Individualism

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • "Sexlessness" issue in this context refers to a societal concern where individuals are engaging less in sexual activities, potentially due to factors like excessive focus on instant gratification and the impact of pornography on relationships. This decline in sexual activity can lead to feelings of emptiness and contribute to broader societal issues related to personal development and relationship dynamics. The term highlights a trend where individuals may prioritize short-term pleasures over deeper, more meaningful connections, affecting both personal well-being and social cohesion. The discussion around "sexlessness" underscores the potential consequences of hedonistic pursuits and the erosion of traditional values that support healthy relationships and community well-being.
  • The decline of shared narratives refers to the diminishing presence of common stories, beliefs, or values that bind a community together. In a society where shared narratives are fading, individuals may struggle to find common ground or a sense of collective identity. This decline can lead to feelings of isolation and weaken social cohesion as people may prioritize individual perspectives over communal experiences. The absence of shared narratives can impact how people relate to each other and navigate societal challenges.
  • High-achieving wom ...

Counterarguments

  • Hedonism can be a form of self-exploration and personal freedom, allowing individuals to discover their desires and boundaries in a safe and consensual manner.
  • Pornography, when used responsibly, can enhance sexual education and provide a safe outlet for fantasies that might not be practical or ethical to enact in real life.
  • Individualism can foster innovation and personal accountability, encouraging people to take charge of their lives and contribute uniquely to society.
  • The decline of shared narratives might also reflect a more diverse and inclusive society where multiple perspectives are recognized and valued.
  • Emphasizing traditional values such as marriage and commitment ...

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