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'The Interview': Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother

By The New York Times

In this episode of The Daily podcast, actress Tilda Swinton reflects on her artistic journey and personal experiences with mortality. The discussion explores Swinton's transition from writing to the performing arts, her collaborative approach to acting, and the insights she gained while caring for dying loved ones.

Swinton passionately advocates for art's transformative potential in fostering human connection, empathy, and social change. She shares her perspective on humanity's innate goodness, which she believes art can help reignite by providing a lens into diverse experiences and realities beyond our own.

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'The Interview': Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother

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'The Interview': Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother

1-Page Summary

Swinton's Artistic Evolution

From an early passion for writing and poetry, Swinton discusses her transition into the performing arts. She values the collaborative nature of acting, contrasting with her earlier solitary pursuit of writing. Despite her success as an actress, Swinton prefers to identify as a "creative collaborator" rather than solely an "actor," seeing herself as part of a collective artistic experience.

Intimacy with Death and Dying

Swinton reflects on her personal experiences caring for dying loved ones, including her parents and filmmaker Derek Jarman. She rejects the "battle" framing of terminal illness, instead advocating for honest engagement with mortality's inevitability. Swinton differentiates the profound process of dying from death itself, finding the former rife with insights into the human condition.

Art's Transformative Potential

Social and Political Impact

Swinton sees art as a powerful platform for political engagement and social change. She recalls her involvement in activist art during Thatcher-era England, underscoring the value of free speech and protest, especially for the arts community.

Fostering Human Connection

For Swinton, art - and cinema in particular - serves as an "empathy machine," allowing people to connect with others' experiences and rekindle their innate goodness. However, she acknowledges the tension around art's potential for both positive change and negative influence.

The Human Condition

Swinton maintains a deep faith in humanity's fundamental goodness despite societal cynicism. She sees art, through its invocation of empathy and understanding, as vital for bridging divides. Rather than death, Swinton is compelled by the process of dying and the revelations it can offer about truly living. She believes art provides a space to safely confront mortality and enrich our perspectives on life's meaning.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • While Swinton values the collaborative nature of acting, some might argue that writing and poetry can also be collaborative, with writers often engaging with editors, other writers, and readers.
  • The preference to be called a "creative collaborator" rather than an "actor" might be seen as downplaying the specific skills and contributions of actors within the collaborative process.
  • Rejecting the "battle" narrative of terminal illness is a perspective that might not resonate with everyone; some individuals and cultures find the battle metaphor empowering and a source of strength in facing illness.
  • The belief that dying offers unique insights into the human condition could be challenged by those who believe that focusing on dying might overshadow the importance of living and the experiences one can have in health.
  • Viewing art as a tool for social and political change is a perspective that might be critiqued by those who believe art should be for art's sake, without an explicit agenda or purpose beyond aesthetic experience.
  • The emphasis on free speech and protest in art could be counterargued by those who feel that art should not always be political or that some forms of protest art can be divisive rather than unifying.
  • The idea of cinema as an "empathy machine" might be contested by those who argue that cinema can also perpetuate stereotypes, misinformation, or harmful narratives.
  • Acknowledging art's dual potential for positive and negative influence might lead to discussions about the responsibility of artists and the need for critical engagement from audiences.
  • The faith in humanity's inherent goodness could be seen as naive by those who point to historical and contemporary examples of human cruelty and indifference.
  • The focus on the process of dying as a source of revelations about life might not be universally accepted, with some arguing that it is just as important to find meaning and revelations in the everyday aspects of living.
  • The idea that art provides a safe space to confront mortality could be challenged by those who feel that art sometimes fails to adequately represent the complexity of death and dying, or that it can trivialize these experiences.

Actionables

  • Explore the power of collaboration by joining a local theater group as a volunteer, where you can contribute to various aspects of a production and experience the collective effort firsthand.
    • Volunteering at a community theater allows you to immerse yourself in the collaborative spirit that drives performing arts. You might help with set design, costumes, or lighting, gaining appreciation for the diverse roles that come together to create a performance. This hands-on involvement can deepen your understanding of the interconnectedness within creative endeavors.
  • Start a personal art project that addresses a social issue you're passionate about, using your chosen medium to express and share your perspective.
    • Whether it's through painting, writing, or digital media, creating art focused on a cause you care about can be a form of activism and self-expression. For example, if you're concerned about environmental conservation, you could create a series of artworks highlighting the beauty of local wildlife at risk. Sharing these pieces on social media or at local events can spark conversations and raise awareness.
  • Engage in reflective journaling to explore your thoughts on mortality and the human condition, using art as a prompt for deeper contemplation.
    • Reflective journaling can be a private way to process complex emotions and thoughts about life and death. You might watch a film or visit an art exhibit that deals with these themes, then write about your reactions and how they relate to your personal experiences. This practice can help you confront and understand your own perspectives on mortality, enriching your appreciation for life's meaning.

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'The Interview': Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother

Swinton's Artistic Journey and Creative Process

Swinton reflects on her early inclinations towards writing and poetry, her transition into the performing arts, and her unconventional self-perception as a creative collaborator rather than solely an actor.

Swinton's early artistic inclinations and development as a writer and poet

From a young age, Swinton had a passion for writing and poetry. She reveled in the presence of an artist in her home around the age of nine, feeling a spark of excitement for the art world. In her teenage years, Swinton formed a connection with a boy named Johnny; they shared secretive meetings to discuss art and admire each other’s drawings. Although she went to a boarding school where music was banned, which she considers an "abuse to a growing sensibility," her fascination with artistry persisted, as did her enchantment with the album cover of David Bowie's "Aladdin Sane."

Swinton identified as a writer and a poet and took solace in writing from an early age. This identity was affirmed when she won a poetry competition at the age of fifteen, fueling her desire to attend university—a path that led her to Cambridge. However, amidst the intense academic environment there, she suffered a crisis of confidence and ceased writing, equating this loss to a period of bereavement for her once comforting pursuit.

Swinton's transition into acting and the collective, collaborative nature of her creative process

Despite seeing herself as a writer more than an actor, Swinton eventually gravitated towards the performing arts, driven by the community of people around her. She values the collaborative and communal aspects of performance, finding fulfillment in the shared creative experience with fellow artists. This engagement with the collective contrasts ...

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Swinton's Artistic Journey and Creative Process

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Actionables

  • Explore your childhood interests by creating a visual timeline of your passions and pivotal moments, similar to how an artist might reflect on their inspirations. Start by jotting down early memories of activities or subjects that excited you, then connect these to any current hobbies or interests. This can help you rediscover forgotten passions or see how your past has shaped your present pursuits.
  • Build a creative support network by reaching out to someone who shares your interests, as finding a kindred spirit can rekindle your enthusiasm. Use social media or community forums to find individuals with similar tastes in art, music, or literature. Engage in discussions, share your work, and offer feedback to establish a mutually inspiring relationship.
  • Embrace a new creative role by vol ...

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'The Interview': Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother

Swinton's personal experiences with death, mortality, and caring for others

As Swinton discusses the profound impact of mortality on her life, her roles as both an onscreen talent and as a caregiver offscreen merge to reveal her intimate understanding of death and dying.

Swinton's firsthand experiences with the process of dying and supporting loved ones at the end of life

Swinton has a long history of being close to people who are facing their mortality. She took on the caregiver role for both of her parents, the father of her children, and many friends throughout her life. Her experiences in this role began with filmmaker Derek Jarman, who contracted HIV and died of it, significantly shaping Swinton's view on death and the importance of bearing witness to the final chapters of one's life.

Swinton describes sitting with her dying mother as a "borderline traumatic" encounter with helplessness, drawing a parallel to enduring a slow motion "car crash." This confrontation with powerlessness deeply influenced her perspective on the dying process. She observed Jarman's journey with HIV and noted that rather than turning away from his mortality, he embraced it, radiating exhilaration and enlivenment even in the face of terminal illness—a time Swinton considers perhaps the most joyful years of his life despite his sufferings.

Swinton's philosophical views on the nature of death and the human condition

The actress discusses death with a unique approach. Swinton rejects the common "battle terminology" associated with terminal illness, suggesting that such language distracts from a true understanding of being alive. She criticizes the tendency to frame mortality in terms of winning or losing battles, advocating instead for an acknowledgment of life's limitations without delusions of escaping death.

Swinton differentiates between the process of dying—which she views as substantial—and death itself, stating that death is not the "star of the show," as it simply marks the cessation of life. For Swinton, the process of dying brings profound insights into the human condition that mortality can offer through honest ...

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Swinton's personal experiences with death, mortality, and caring for others

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Counterarguments

  • Swinton's rejection of battle terminology in the context of terminal illness might be seen as overlooking the empowering effect such language can have for some individuals, who find motivation and strength in conceptualizing their experience as a fight or battle.
  • The idea that the process of dying can offer profound insights might not resonate with everyone, as some may view death as a purely biological process without inherent philosophical or existential value.
  • The notion that mourning can lead to critical self-discovery and transformation might not be a universal experience; some individuals may find that grief leads to a long-term struggle with loss and does not necessarily result in personal growth.
  • Swinton's advocacy for embracing the certainty of death for a deeper understanding of life could be challenged by those who believe that focusing on death might detract from living fully in the present.
  • The themes explored in Swinton's upcoming film, "T ...

Actionables

  • Create a personal reflection journal to explore your feelings about mortality and document any experiences with death or terminal illness in your life or the lives of those around you. Writing down your thoughts can help you process your emotions and may lead to a deeper understanding of life's finite nature. For example, you might write about how you felt when someone close to you was ill, or how you perceive your own life in the context of its eventual end.
  • Start a creative project that channels your thoughts on life and death, such as painting, writing poetry, or composing music. This can serve as a therapeutic outlet and a means of expressing your beliefs and feelings about the human condition. For instance, you could paint a series of canvases that depict different stages of life, or write a short story that explores the themes of legacy and lineage.
  • Engage in conversations with friends or family about their perspectives ...

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'The Interview': Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother

The role and impact of art in society, including its political and social dimensions

Tilda Swinton offers insights into how she views the role and impact of art as a potent tool for political engagement, social change, and fostering human empathy, while also acknowledging its darker potential uses.

Art as a forum for political and social engagement

Swinton views art, particularly collaborative artistic endeavors, as a powerful platform for political and social commentary, fostering dialogue and collective action around important issues.

Swinton considers her film "The Room Next Door" a political piece because it underscores the importance of witnessing and coexistence. She sees no distinction between political activism, artistic practice, and living life, suggesting they are intertwined reflections of each other. Swinton's early career with Derek Jarman emphasized the lived experience of art, with their lives and conversations leading organically to artistic creation, such as films.

Swinton also recalls being involved in politically charged art during Margaret Thatcher's England, participating in avant-garde queer cinema and attending various marches for causes such as anti-war, LGBTQ+ rights, and workers' rights. She treasures the freedom to assemble and protest and regards it as vital, particularly for the youth and the arts community.

Art as a means of fostering empathy and human connection

Swinton believes that art, and particularly the cinematic medium, possesses a unique capacity to cultivate empathy and facilitate meaningful connections between individuals and communities.

Art, Swinton suggests, has a unique capacity to reconnect people with their inherent goodness, serving as an antidote to cynicism, especially one propagated by extreme ideologies. She views a post-screening protest as a testament to art's ability to instigate necessary political discourse and collective acknowledgment of pressing global issues.

Furthermore, she mentions her personal quest for connection that began in childhood, underscoring the importance of understanding one's intrinsic self—the "original setting"—to foster genuine human connections through art. In this light, art allows for a still connection between the viewer and the work, serving as a processing tool to understand and reflect on experiences.

The tension between art's potential for positive impact and its susceptibility to misuse

While acknowledging art's capacity for truth-telling and promoting social responsibil ...

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The role and impact of art in society, including its political and social dimensions

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Art's influence on political engagement and social change can be overstated, as not all art is politically motivated or has the capacity to effect change.
  • The effectiveness of collaborative artistic endeavors as platforms for political and social commentary can vary widely and may not always lead to tangible outcomes.
  • While art can reflect important issues, it can also be an escape or purely aesthetic, not necessarily intertwined with activism or life's practicalities.
  • Political engagement through art is not always accessible or appealing to all demographics, potentially limiting its reach and impact.
  • The capacity of art to foster empathy is subjective and can be influenced by the viewer's personal experiences, biases, and cultural background.
  • The idea that art reconnects people with their inherent goodness assumes a universal moral baseline, which is philosophically debatable.
  • Art's role in facilitating connections may not be as significant in a digital age where social media and other technologies play a dominant role in human interaction.
  • The concept of a "still connection" between viewer and work is not universally experienced and can be affected by the context in which art is consumed.
  • Vigilance against art's misuse can lead to censorship, which may stifle creative expression and the diversity of viewpoints.
  • The belief in art's capacity for truth-telling and promoting social responsibility may not account for subjective interpretations and the multiplicity of truths.
  • Open communicati ...

Actionables

  • You can create a visual diary to capture your reactions to social and political events, using any form of art that resonates with you, like drawing, painting, or collage. Start by selecting a current event that sparks an emotional response in you. Then, express your thoughts and feelings about this event through your chosen artistic medium. This practice not only allows you to process your emotions but also creates a personal record of your political engagement through art.
  • Engage with local artists by attending gallery openings, art fairs, or public installations that focus on social and political themes. When you visit these events, take the time to speak with the artists or curators to understand the intention behind the works. This direct interaction can deepen your appreciation of how art reflects and critiques societal issues, fostering a sense of community and shared understanding.
  • Start a book club or discussi ...

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'The Interview': Tilda Swinton Would Like a Word With Trump About His Mother

Swinton's philosophical perspectives on the human condition and the meaning of life

Swinton offers deep insights into her beliefs on the human spirit, the power of art, and confronting mortality, providing a multi-faceted view into the human condition and the search for meaning.

Swinton's belief in the inherent goodness of humanity

Swinton maintains a steadfast conviction in the innate goodness of the human spirit. She confronts the rise of right-wing politics and societal meanness with a belief in the essential good within people. Swinton seeks to reconnect with that innocence and to engage with people who have strayed from their innate goodness, likening it to recalling the scared little animals we once were. She suggests that this process of rekindling our inherent goodness is vital in an increasingly cynical and divided world.

The importance of connection, empathy, and mutual understanding

Art as an Empathy Machine

Swinton sees art, particularly cinema, as an "empathy machine," inviting individuals to step into the shoes of others, promoting empathy and understanding. The collective experience of witnessing a film in a theater embodies this open and resonant interaction. She underscores the power of cinema to evoke love, which is innate and good, through connection and mutual understanding.

Swinton's reflections on her early awareness of social divisions within her childhood church reveal a lifelong pursuit of bridging gaps between people. This pursuit is a cornerstone of her philosophy where empathy and understanding are seen not just as emotional responses, but as essential tools to fashion a more compassionate and equitable world.

The search for meaning and purpose in the face of mortality

Rather than focusing on death itself, Swinton is intrigued by the process of dying. She is interested in the revelations that the process of dying can yi ...

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Swinton's philosophical perspectives on the human condition and the meaning of life

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Swinton's philosophical perspectives encompass beliefs in the inherent goodness of humanity, the power of art to foster empathy and understanding, and the exploration of meaning and purpose through the lens of mortality. She emphasizes the importance of reconnecting with our innate goodness, using art as a tool for empathy and introspection, and viewing the process of dying as a means to understand life more deeply. Swinton's philosophy revolves around using art as a bridge to understanding and fostering a compassionate and equitable world.
  • Right-wing politics typically advocates for conservative values, emphasizing tradition, individualism, and limited government intervention. Societal meanness can refer to a lack of kindness, empathy, or compassion in interactions among people, often manifesting in behaviors that disregard the well-being of others. In the context of the text, Swinton contrasts these negative aspects with her belief in the inherent goodness of humanity. She sees a need to counteract these trends by reconnecting with the positive qualities she believes exist within individuals.
  • Cinema as an "empathy machine" refers to the idea that films have the power to evoke empathy and understanding in viewers by allowing them to emotionally connect with the experiences and perspectives of characters on screen. Through storytelling and visual representation, cinema can create a shared emotional space that enables audiences to step into the shoes of others, fostering a deeper sense of empathy and compassion. This concept highlights the unique ability of films to transcend individual experiences and societal barriers, promoting a greater understanding of diverse human emotions and situations. By immersing viewers in different narratives and viewpoints, cinema serves as a medium for building empathy and encouraging reflection on the complexities of the human condition.
  • The process of dying can offer insights into life by prompting reflection on one's values, relationships, and priorities. Facing mortality often leads individuals to contemplate the meaning of their existence and the legacy they wish to leave behind. This introspection can bring clarity on what truly matters and how to live more authentically. By acknowledging the finite nature of life, individuals may find a renewed appreciation for the present moment and a deeper understanding of the interconnectedness of all experiences.
  • Engaging with art can provide a cathartic exp ...

Counterarguments

  • While Swinton believes in the inherent goodness of humanity, some philosophical perspectives argue that humans are not inherently good or bad but are shaped by their environment and experiences.
  • The idea of art as an "empathy machine" can be contested by pointing out that art can also be divisive or misinterpreted, sometimes reinforcing stereotypes or misunderstanding rather than promoting empathy.
  • The effectiveness of empathy and understanding as tools for creating a more compassionate world can be challenged by noting that structural and systemic issues may require more than just emotional responses to effect real change.
  • The focus on the process of dying to find meaning in life might be seen as a narrow perspective, as some philosophies and religions emphasize the importance of the actions and choices made throughout life rather than the end-of-life experience.
  • The belief that art ca ...

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