In this episode of The Daily podcast, actress Tilda Swinton reflects on her artistic journey and personal experiences with mortality. The discussion explores Swinton's transition from writing to the performing arts, her collaborative approach to acting, and the insights she gained while caring for dying loved ones.
Swinton passionately advocates for art's transformative potential in fostering human connection, empathy, and social change. She shares her perspective on humanity's innate goodness, which she believes art can help reignite by providing a lens into diverse experiences and realities beyond our own.
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From an early passion for writing and poetry, Swinton discusses her transition into the performing arts. She values the collaborative nature of acting, contrasting with her earlier solitary pursuit of writing. Despite her success as an actress, Swinton prefers to identify as a "creative collaborator" rather than solely an "actor," seeing herself as part of a collective artistic experience.
Swinton reflects on her personal experiences caring for dying loved ones, including her parents and filmmaker Derek Jarman. She rejects the "battle" framing of terminal illness, instead advocating for honest engagement with mortality's inevitability. Swinton differentiates the profound process of dying from death itself, finding the former rife with insights into the human condition.
Swinton sees art as a powerful platform for political engagement and social change. She recalls her involvement in activist art during Thatcher-era England, underscoring the value of free speech and protest, especially for the arts community.
For Swinton, art - and cinema in particular - serves as an "empathy machine," allowing people to connect with others' experiences and rekindle their innate goodness. However, she acknowledges the tension around art's potential for both positive change and negative influence.
Swinton maintains a deep faith in humanity's fundamental goodness despite societal cynicism. She sees art, through its invocation of empathy and understanding, as vital for bridging divides. Rather than death, Swinton is compelled by the process of dying and the revelations it can offer about truly living. She believes art provides a space to safely confront mortality and enrich our perspectives on life's meaning.
1-Page Summary
Swinton reflects on her early inclinations towards writing and poetry, her transition into the performing arts, and her unconventional self-perception as a creative collaborator rather than solely an actor.
From a young age, Swinton had a passion for writing and poetry. She reveled in the presence of an artist in her home around the age of nine, feeling a spark of excitement for the art world. In her teenage years, Swinton formed a connection with a boy named Johnny; they shared secretive meetings to discuss art and admire each other’s drawings. Although she went to a boarding school where music was banned, which she considers an "abuse to a growing sensibility," her fascination with artistry persisted, as did her enchantment with the album cover of David Bowie's "Aladdin Sane."
Swinton identified as a writer and a poet and took solace in writing from an early age. This identity was affirmed when she won a poetry competition at the age of fifteen, fueling her desire to attend university—a path that led her to Cambridge. However, amidst the intense academic environment there, she suffered a crisis of confidence and ceased writing, equating this loss to a period of bereavement for her once comforting pursuit.
Despite seeing herself as a writer more than an actor, Swinton eventually gravitated towards the performing arts, driven by the community of people around her. She values the collaborative and communal aspects of performance, finding fulfillment in the shared creative experience with fellow artists. This engagement with the collective contrasts ...
Swinton's Artistic Journey and Creative Process
As Swinton discusses the profound impact of mortality on her life, her roles as both an onscreen talent and as a caregiver offscreen merge to reveal her intimate understanding of death and dying.
Swinton has a long history of being close to people who are facing their mortality. She took on the caregiver role for both of her parents, the father of her children, and many friends throughout her life. Her experiences in this role began with filmmaker Derek Jarman, who contracted HIV and died of it, significantly shaping Swinton's view on death and the importance of bearing witness to the final chapters of one's life.
Swinton describes sitting with her dying mother as a "borderline traumatic" encounter with helplessness, drawing a parallel to enduring a slow motion "car crash." This confrontation with powerlessness deeply influenced her perspective on the dying process. She observed Jarman's journey with HIV and noted that rather than turning away from his mortality, he embraced it, radiating exhilaration and enlivenment even in the face of terminal illness—a time Swinton considers perhaps the most joyful years of his life despite his sufferings.
The actress discusses death with a unique approach. Swinton rejects the common "battle terminology" associated with terminal illness, suggesting that such language distracts from a true understanding of being alive. She criticizes the tendency to frame mortality in terms of winning or losing battles, advocating instead for an acknowledgment of life's limitations without delusions of escaping death.
Swinton differentiates between the process of dying—which she views as substantial—and death itself, stating that death is not the "star of the show," as it simply marks the cessation of life. For Swinton, the process of dying brings profound insights into the human condition that mortality can offer through honest ...
Swinton's personal experiences with death, mortality, and caring for others
Tilda Swinton offers insights into how she views the role and impact of art as a potent tool for political engagement, social change, and fostering human empathy, while also acknowledging its darker potential uses.
Swinton considers her film "The Room Next Door" a political piece because it underscores the importance of witnessing and coexistence. She sees no distinction between political activism, artistic practice, and living life, suggesting they are intertwined reflections of each other. Swinton's early career with Derek Jarman emphasized the lived experience of art, with their lives and conversations leading organically to artistic creation, such as films.
Swinton also recalls being involved in politically charged art during Margaret Thatcher's England, participating in avant-garde queer cinema and attending various marches for causes such as anti-war, LGBTQ+ rights, and workers' rights. She treasures the freedom to assemble and protest and regards it as vital, particularly for the youth and the arts community.
Art, Swinton suggests, has a unique capacity to reconnect people with their inherent goodness, serving as an antidote to cynicism, especially one propagated by extreme ideologies. She views a post-screening protest as a testament to art's ability to instigate necessary political discourse and collective acknowledgment of pressing global issues.
Furthermore, she mentions her personal quest for connection that began in childhood, underscoring the importance of understanding one's intrinsic self—the "original setting"—to foster genuine human connections through art. In this light, art allows for a still connection between the viewer and the work, serving as a processing tool to understand and reflect on experiences.
The role and impact of art in society, including its political and social dimensions
Swinton offers deep insights into her beliefs on the human spirit, the power of art, and confronting mortality, providing a multi-faceted view into the human condition and the search for meaning.
Swinton maintains a steadfast conviction in the innate goodness of the human spirit. She confronts the rise of right-wing politics and societal meanness with a belief in the essential good within people. Swinton seeks to reconnect with that innocence and to engage with people who have strayed from their innate goodness, likening it to recalling the scared little animals we once were. She suggests that this process of rekindling our inherent goodness is vital in an increasingly cynical and divided world.
Swinton sees art, particularly cinema, as an "empathy machine," inviting individuals to step into the shoes of others, promoting empathy and understanding. The collective experience of witnessing a film in a theater embodies this open and resonant interaction. She underscores the power of cinema to evoke love, which is innate and good, through connection and mutual understanding.
Swinton's reflections on her early awareness of social divisions within her childhood church reveal a lifelong pursuit of bridging gaps between people. This pursuit is a cornerstone of her philosophy where empathy and understanding are seen not just as emotional responses, but as essential tools to fashion a more compassionate and equitable world.
Rather than focusing on death itself, Swinton is intrigued by the process of dying. She is interested in the revelations that the process of dying can yi ...
Swinton's philosophical perspectives on the human condition and the meaning of life
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