In this episode of Stuff You Should Know, the hosts explore the history and practices of conversion therapy, tracing its origins from early attempts in 1899 to its adoption by religious organizations in the late 20th century. The episode examines the various methods used in these therapies, from electroconvulsive treatments to enforced gender roles, and discusses the role of organizations like Exodus International in promoting these practices.
The hosts detail the complete lack of scientific evidence supporting conversion therapy's effectiveness, citing major health organizations' opposition to the practice. They also cover the psychological impact on individuals subjected to these treatments, particularly LGBTQ youth, and outline recent legal developments including state-level bans and challenges to these regulations. The episode includes context about private sector responses, such as Amazon's removal of conversion therapy-related materials from their platform.

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The first documented attempt at conversion therapy occurred in 1899 when a hypnotist claimed to have turned a gay man heterosexual after 45 sessions. Following this, psychologists employed various unethical methods including electroconvulsive therapy, lobotomies, and even testicular transplantation to try to alter sexual orientation. The modern movement gained momentum in the 1960s alongside the increasing visibility of the LGBTQ community.
The fundamentalist Christian right embraced conversion therapy in the late 20th century, led primarily by Exodus International. The organization promoted the idea that homosexuality could be "cured" through therapy, viewing it as a symptom of societal decay. In the 1990s, the Christian Right launched a $600,000 ad campaign featuring "success stories" of supposedly converted individuals. However, Exodus International's leader, Allen Chambers, eventually shut down the organization and apologized to the LGBTQ community, admitting that conversion therapy doesn't work.
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant describe the disturbing methods used in conversion therapy, including aversive conditioning that links same-sex attractions to negative stimuli like nausea or electric shocks. The practice often enforces traditional gender roles through forced labor and specific clothing requirements. Young children are frequently subjected to these therapies against their will, with techniques ranging from wearing heavy backpacks to forced participation in stereotypically masculine activities.
According to Clark and Bryant, there is no scientific evidence supporting the effectiveness of conversion therapy. Major health organizations, including the American Medical Association and American Psychological Association, condemn the practice as harmful. The APA's 2009 report indicates that individuals subjected to conversion therapy often experience depression, shame, substance abuse, and increased suicide risk. The risk is particularly high for LGBTQ minors, who are up to three times more likely to attempt suicide when subjected to these practices.
As of 2019, eighteen U.S. states, Washington D.C., and Puerto Rico have banned conversion therapy for minors when practiced by licensed professionals. While courts have generally upheld these bans, some jurisdictions have faced legal challenges. For example, New York City repealed its ban to avoid a potential Supreme Court decision that could invalidate all such laws. Meanwhile, private sector actors like Amazon have taken steps to oppose conversion therapy by removing related materials from their platforms.
1-Page Summary
Exploring the origins of conversion therapy reveals a troubling past where unethical methods were employed in an attempt to alter individuals' sexual orientations.
In the late 19th century, conversion therapy had its initial attempts documented when a hypnotist claimed to have turned a gay man heterosexual.
A hypnotist in the 19th century boldly asserted the ability to change a gay man’s sexual orientation to heterosexual after 45 hypnosis sessions. This claim marks an early recorded instance of what can be considered conversion therapy.
The history of conversion therapy includes a range of harsh and unethical practices. Psychologists and medical professionals resorted to electroconvulsive therapy and lobotomies in an effort to change individuals' sexual preferences. Furthermore, inf ...
The History and Origins of Conversion Therapy
The transcript reveals the intertwined history of conversion therapy and the Christian Right, tracing the movement's desperate efforts to align sexuality with their conservative values.
In the late 20th century, the fundamentalist Christian right embraced conversion therapy, a practice grounded in the belief that homosexual feelings, which they refer to as same-sex attraction (SSA), can arise from a variety of non-biological factors.
Exodus International, a leading organization in the ex-gay movement, promoted conversion therapy as a means to align gay people with Christian values. The movement, and its adoption by the Christian right, was driven by a belief that homosexuality and feminism were indicative of a decadent society on the brink of collapse. The Christian right latched onto conversion therapy in an effort to combat what they saw as societal decay, with masculinity serving as an antidote to homosexuality and feminism.
Despite its popularity within the fundamentalist Christian right, the organization’s leader, Allen Chambers, ultimately shut down Exodus International, admitting that conversion therapy does not work and issuing an apology to the LGBTQ community.
In the late 1990s, the Christian Right waged a cultural war to mainstream conversion therapy within their philosophy. A key moment in this effort was a $600,000 ad campaign in 1998 that featured "ex-gay" individuals, such as John and Ann Polk, who claimed to be formerly gay but were now married with a child. This campaign, which presented the Polks as proof of conversion therapy’s effectiveness, captured national attention and marked a significant push by the Christian Right in the cultural war over conversion therapy. John and Ann Polk’s story was even featured on the cover of Newsweek.
Historically, this battle over conversion therapy has included several high-profile figures within the Christian right, like Ted Haggard, who was involved in efforts to promote ex-gay ...
Promotion of Conversion Therapy by Christian Right
Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant shed light on the controversial practices known as conversion therapy, highlighting both the abusive techniques used to change sexual orientation and the reinforcement of traditional gender roles.
Clark and Bryant discuss the disturbing and often secretive methods used in conversion therapy, a practice which can occur in both professional settings and less formal religious environments. Nicolosi's communications with patients, which make the therapy seem professional and innocuous, can mislead individuals about the validity and ethics of the practice. Unfortunately, it's often young children who are forced by their parents to undergo these therapies.
One of the most harmful practices is aversion therapy, where individuals are exposed to nauseating stimuli while viewing images of the same sex or while masturbating to thoughts of other men in an attempt to create a negative association with same-sex attraction. Covert sensitization, for instance, involves using chemicals to induce retching and vomiting in response to certain triggers.
This method is not just a relic of history; the podcast suggests these practices still occur. The hosts mention the work of Robert Gilbreath Heath, who was notorious for implanting electrodes in the brain to shock people under the guise of curing homosexuality.
Conversion therapy often includes psychological abuse through gender role reinforcement. One extreme example mentioned in the podcast involved forcing a teenager to wear a 40-pound backpac ...
The Practices and Techniques Used In Conversion Therapy
Chuck Bryant, Josh Clark, and other experts discuss the painful reality and ineffectiveness of conversion therapy, underscoring the psychological harm and lack of scientific support for these practices.
The sad aspects of conversion therapy are highlighted, particularly how vulnerable children are told they are wrong, sinning, and dirty. Josh Clark notes that from a scientific perspective, there is no evidence supporting the efficacy of conversion therapy. Chuck Bryant echoes that, regardless of opinion, conversion therapy just does not work. There's a total absence of scientific evidence that conversion therapy can successfully convert gay individuals to heterosexuality.
The American Medical Association (AMA) and other major health organizations, such as the American Psychological Association (APA), condemn conversion therapy as not only ineffective but also damaging. The APA asserted in 1972 that homosexuality is a normal sexual orientation variation and thus cannot—and should not—be changed. By this statement, they implied that conversion therapy is essentially fraudulent as it promises the unachievable.
George Rekers's conversion therapy attempt on a young child showed long-term damaging effects when that child, treated for "childhood cross-gender identity," died by suicide at the age of 30. This tragic case exemplifies the severe risks associated with conversion therapy, which the APA's report in 2009 also outlined. According to their report, individuals subjected to sexual orientation change efforts may suffer from a wide range of emotional and psychologic ...
Psychological Harm and Lack of Scientific Evidence For Conversion Therapy
There is a growing recognition of the harms caused by conversion therapy, particularly to minors. This has led to legal actions against the practice, primarily targeting its use on minors by licensed professionals.
As of 2019, 18 states, Washington D.C., and Puerto Rico have enacted bans on conversion therapy for minors when practices by licensed professionals. These bans are a response to the wide consensus in the scientific community regarding the potential harm caused by conversion therapy. Professionals who practice it risk having their licenses revoked. However, these bans typically do not extend to religious figures, allowing some religious groups to potentially continue such practices under the guise of religious freedom.
Courts have generally upheld bans on conversion therapy where they have been challenged, particularly in California and New Jersey, with most challenges to these laws hinging on the grounds of free speech. There is evidence to suggest that some jurisdictions face legal challenges leading to the reevaluation or repeal of bans on conversion therapy. For instance, New York City repealed its ban on conversion therapy for minors and adults t ...
Legal Efforts to Ban Conversion Therapy
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