Podcasts > Shawn Ryan Show > #213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

By Shawn Ryan Show

In this episode of the Shawn Ryan Show, combat veteran and guide Braxton McCoy discusses current efforts to sell millions of acres of U.S. public lands. McCoy examines the history of American public lands and explains how they were acquired through various means, from purchases to treaties. He explores Senator Mike Lee's push to transfer or sell these lands, which is presented as a solution for national debt and housing affordability.

The discussion covers the potential consequences of privatizing public lands, including impacts on wildlife migration corridors and recreational access. McCoy and Ryan investigate the financial interests behind land sale initiatives, including corporate involvement and political donations. The conversation also touches on advocacy efforts to preserve public lands, with McCoy sharing insights from his work since 2016 to protect areas like the greater Yellowstone ecosystem.

#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

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#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

1-Page Summary

Braxton McCoy explores how American public lands were acquired through various means including conquests, wars, treaties, and purchases. He explains that after the Revolution, federal control of western lands was established to prevent state monopolization. Notable acquisitions like the Louisiana Purchase and territories gained through the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo expanded these holdings significantly.

McCoy discusses how Teddy Roosevelt viewed public lands as a national birthright requiring protection for future generations. This vision was later formalized in the Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976, which established guidelines for multiple land uses.

Push to Sell Public Lands: Details and Rationales

Shawn Ryan discusses Senator Mike Lee's efforts to transfer or sell millions of acres of public land, ostensibly to reduce national debt and enable affordable housing development. McCoy expresses skepticism about these stated goals, noting that the specifics of targeted lands keep changing. He warns that transferring lands to state control could lead to privatization, as states are constitutionally required to maximize revenue.

Impacts and Consequences Of Selling Public Lands

McCoy emphasizes the critical role of public lands in supporting wildlife, particularly as winter range and migration corridors for species like mule deer. He points to Wyoming's successful efforts to protect migration routes and warns that selling these lands could lead to species extinction in the American West.

The discussion also highlights how privatization would eliminate low-cost recreational opportunities for the public, from hunting and fishing to stargazing in some of the least light-polluted areas in America.

Motivations and Financial Interests Behind Land Sale Efforts

Ryan and McCoy explore the financial interests driving public land sales, including potential profits for companies like BlackRock and Blackstone. McCoy points out that Senator Lee's donors include organizations with vested interests in land development. The conversation reveals how dark money influences land sale advocacy through organizations like the American Path Initiative, which doesn't have to disclose its donors.

Advocacy and Organizing to Prevent Public Land Sales

McCoy, a combat veteran and guide, has been advocating since 2016 to preserve public lands, particularly the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. He's joined by influential figures like Cameron Haynes, Joe Rogan, and Senator Tim Sheehy in opposing land sales. Despite facing online harassment and pressure to cancel interviews, McCoy continues his work, noting that up to 80 percent of Americans oppose public land sales.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The acquisition of lands through conquests, wars, treaties, and purchases may be seen as a historical norm, but it can also be critiqued from the perspective of indigenous peoples and the concept of manifest destiny, which often disregarded the rights and sovereignty of native populations.
  • While federal control was established to prevent state monopolization, some argue that states could better manage the lands closer to the interests and needs of local populations.
  • The vision of public lands as a national birthright is a powerful one, but it can be argued that this vision may not fully account for the diverse views and needs of all Americans, especially those who may prioritize economic development or resource extraction.
  • The Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976, while aiming to protect public lands, can be criticized for potentially limiting economic opportunities or for not adapting to changing environmental and social conditions.
  • Senator Mike Lee's efforts to sell public lands can be defended on the grounds of fiscal responsibility, local autonomy, and the potential for economic development that could benefit local communities.
  • The argument that transferring lands to state control could lead to privatization and revenue maximization might overlook the potential for states to implement innovative conservation financing or public-private partnerships that balance conservation with economic interests.
  • While public lands support wildlife, some argue that responsible development and conservation can coexist, and that private ownership does not necessarily preclude wildlife protection.
  • The concern about selling public lands leading to species extinction could be countered with the argument that targeted, well-regulated development might not significantly impact species populations.
  • The loss of low-cost recreational opportunities through privatization could be mitigated by policies that require private landowners to provide public access or by the creation of private parks and conservation areas.
  • The financial interests of companies like BlackRock and Blackstone in public land sales could be seen as a legitimate part of a market economy, where investment in land development is a standard business practice.
  • While dark money in advocacy is a concern, some might argue that private organizations have a right to confidentiality and that transparency requirements could stifle free speech and participation in policy debates.
  • Advocacy to preserve public lands, while noble, might be critiqued for not fully considering the economic needs of rural communities or the potential benefits of development.
  • The opposition to public land sales by influential figures could be seen as unduly influenced by celebrity rather than by expert opinion or the needs of local stakeholders.
  • The statistic that up to 80 percent of Americans oppose public land sales could be questioned in terms of the representativeness of the polling or the framing of the questions asked.

Actionables

  • You can volunteer with local conservation groups to help maintain and protect public lands, ensuring they remain accessible for future generations. By participating in trail clean-ups, habitat restoration projects, or wildlife monitoring, you contribute to the preservation of these areas and the species that inhabit them. For example, joining a local chapter of a wildlife conservation organization could involve activities like planting native species or removing invasive plants.
  • Start a social media campaign to raise awareness about the importance of public lands and the risks of privatization. Use platforms like Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook to share facts, personal experiences, and the benefits of public lands. You could create a hashtag, encourage others to post their outdoor experiences, and tag their representatives to show the widespread support for public lands.
  • Educate yourself on the financial and political influences on public land policies by reading up on current legislation, attending town hall meetings, or participating in webinars. Knowledge is power, and understanding the intricacies of these influences can help you make informed decisions and discussions when voting or advocating for public lands. For instance, you might track bills related to public lands in Congress and write to your representatives to express your stance, armed with the facts.

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#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

History and Legal/Political Context of US Public Lands

Braxton McCoy delves into the foundational elements of American public lands—from the times of early conquest and acquisitions to the era of preservation symbolized by the leadership of Teddy Roosevelt.

Public Lands Acquired by Conquest, War, Treaties, and Purchases Form a Core Part of American Identity and Heritage

McCoy establishes that the US public lands have historically been secured through various means such as conquests, wars, treaties, and purchases, each shaping the identity and extent of the nation’s geography and heritage.

Federal Control of Unowned Western Lands Post-Revolution Prevents State Monopolization

He explains that during the era of the Articles of Confederation, some states, including Georgia and Virginia, claimed vast lands that would have marginalized other states. To avoid such disparities, a resolution led to the establishment of state borders, beyond which unclaimed lands were ceded to federal governance. This move was intended to prevent state monopolization and instead place the lands under a public trust.

Notable Land Acquisitions Like Louisiana Purchase, Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, and 49th Parallel Expanded Public Lands

Significant land acquisitions helped expand US territory. McCoy touches upon the Louisiana Purchase, where the US paid $15 million to France, and territories gained from the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Additionally, he addresses land acquisitions along the 49th parallel from the British, and regions previously controlled by Spain and Mexico, often as results of conflicts and negotiations. These expansive territories, McCoy notes, were sometimes used to compensate soldiers, with land allotments serving as a form of payment and reflecting the nation’s growth.

Preserving Public Lands: Teddy Roos ...

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History and Legal/Political Context of US Public Lands

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Counterarguments

  • The acquisition of lands through conquest and war can be viewed as a legacy of colonialism and imperialism, which may not be universally celebrated as part of American identity and heritage.
  • Federal control of Western lands may have prevented state monopolization, but it also centralized power and could be criticized for limiting local governance and self-determination.
  • The notion that land acquisitions reflect national growth can be contested by the perspective that they also represent the displacement and disenfranchisement of indigenous populations and other nations.
  • Viewing public lands as a national birthright might overlook the complex histories and claims of Native American tribes who inhabited these lands before European settlement.
  • The Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976, wh ...

Actionables

  • You can explore the historical context of your local public lands by visiting a nearby national park or monument and engaging with the educational resources available. By doing so, you'll gain a deeper appreciation for how these lands have shaped American identity. For example, if you live near a Civil War battlefield, you might find exhibits or guided tours that explain how the land was acquired and its significance in American history.
  • Create a personal map that highlights the major land acquisitions in U.S. history and their local impact. This can be a simple paper map where you mark areas like the Louisiana Purchase territory and note how they've influenced the development of your state or region. This activity will help you visualize the scale of these acquisitions and their role in national growth.
  • Volunteer for a conservation project on public lands to cont ...

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#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

Push to Sell Public Lands: Details and Rationales

Mike Lee's Efforts to Transfer or Sell Federal Lands

United States politicians, including Senator Mike Lee, have made efforts to transfer or sell between two and three million acres of public land.

Rationale: Enable "Affordable Housing" Development, Reduce National Debt

Shawn Ryan mentions that one of Senator Lee's goals is to reduce the national debt and enable the development of affordable housing through the sale of federal lands. However, the term "affordable housing" is seen suspiciously by critics like McCoy, who suggests that the term is being used misleadingly, implying it is about creating housing that people can afford, while expressing skepticism about whether this outcome will actually materialize.

Vague and Inconsistent Details and Locations of Targeted Lands

McCoy points out that the specifics regarding the lands proposed for sale have changed numerous times, contributing to a lack of clarity and consistency in the debate. This moving of goalposts makes it difficult to argue the issue effectively.

State-Controlled Land Transfers Problematic; Constitutions Require Revenue Maximization

McCoy raises the issue that transferring public lands to state control prepares them for eventual sale because states are constitutionally required to maximize revenue. This mandate could result in public lands being sold to private interests rather than being pre ...

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Push to Sell Public Lands: Details and Rationales

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Affordable housing development on public lands could be more cost-effective and environmentally sustainable than urban revitalization, which often faces higher costs and more complex logistical challenges.
  • Selling public lands could provide immediate financial benefits to the government, potentially reducing the national debt more quickly than other methods.
  • The term "affordable housing" may indeed reflect a genuine intent to create housing solutions for low-income families, and skepticism might overlook the potential positive impacts of such developments.
  • Changes in the specifics regarding lands proposed for sale could be a result of ongoing negotiations and assessments to ensure the best outcomes for public interests.
  • State control of lands does not necessarily lead to their sale; states could manage these lands in ways that balance revenue generation with publ ...

Actionables

  • You can educate yourself on public land policies to form your own opinion by reading up on current legislation, attending local government meetings, or joining webinars hosted by land management agencies. Understanding the intricacies of public land management will help you make informed decisions about where you stand on such issues and how they may affect your community.
  • Start a conversation with your local representatives to express your concerns or support for land use decisions by writing letters, making phone calls, or scheduling meetings. By voicing your opinion, you contribute to the democratic process and ensure that your perspective is considered in the decision-making process ...

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#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

Impacts and Consequences Of Selling Public Lands

Braxton McCoy and Shawn Ryan delve into the critical consequences of potentially selling public lands, highlighting the severe ramifications for wildlife and outdoor recreation in America.

Selling Public Lands Would Devastate Wildlife, Especially Migratory Mule Deer

The discussion begins with the significant role of public lands in supporting wildlife, particularly in the western United States.

Public Lands: Essential Winter Range & Irreplaceable Migration Corridors

Shawn Ryan points out that public lands are vital as they serve as essential winter range and irreplaceable migration corridors for migratory mule deer. Braxton McCoy emphasizes the importance of the land around Yellowstone National Park, which includes critical winter range that supports various species.

He discusses how Wyoming has actively worked to protect mule deer by acquiring private lands used as migratory routes. The state's efforts, which included the removal of fences, have had a positive impact on the mule deer population, emphasizing the importance of protecting these corridors.

Loss of These Lands Threatens Species in American West

McCoy warns that selling off lands essential for winter range would have a severe impact on the survival of animal species within the larger Yellowstone ecosystem, which spans an area as big as Ohio. With already declining mule deer populations across the west, the loss of public land threatens to further disrupt migration and wintering habits, potentially leading to the extinction of certain species. McCoy highlights the moral gravity of such an outcome, likening the extinction of a species to a sin.

Loss of Public Lands Limits Americans' Access to Recreation, Hunting, and Fishing

The loss of public lands also has a direct impact on Americans' ability to engage in outdoor recreation.

Lands Provide Low-cost Opportunities Lost if Privatize ...

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Impacts and Consequences Of Selling Public Lands

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Public lands, while essential for wildlife, may not always be optimally managed by the government, and in some cases, private ownership could lead to better conservation outcomes through more focused stewardship.
  • The assertion that selling public lands would devastate wildlife does not consider the possibility of conservation easements or agreements that could be put in place to protect wildlife even if the land is sold.
  • The positive impact of Wyoming's efforts to protect mule deer by acquiring private lands could be challenged by pointing out that such interventions are costly and may not be sustainable or replicable on a larger scale.
  • The claim that selling public lands threatens species survival assumes that all public lands are currently managed effectively for conservation, which may not be the case.
  • The idea that the loss of public lands could lead to the extinction of certain species does not consider the role of adaptive management strategies that could mitigate such risks.
  • The moral argument equating species extinction to a sin is subjective and may not resonate with all ethical frameworks or value systems.
  • The loss of public lands limiting access to recreation could be countered by arguing that private lands can also offer recreational opportunities, sometimes with better facilities and management.
  • The concern about privatization eliminating low-cost recreational opportunities does not account for the potential economic benefits of privatization, such a ...

Actionables

  • You can volunteer with local wildlife conservation groups to help maintain and improve habitats on public lands. By participating in activities like planting native vegetation or removing invasive species, you contribute to creating a healthier ecosystem for wildlife, including migratory species like mule deer.
  • Start a social media campaign to raise awareness about the importance of public lands for recreation and conservation. Use hashtags, compelling images, and facts about the benefits of public lands to engage your followers and encourage them to support policies that protect these areas.
  • Choose to spend your vacat ...

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#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

Motivations and Financial Interests Behind Land Sale Efforts

The conversation investigates the potential financial interests and motivations behind the push to sell public lands, raising concerns about the influence of wealthy developers, investors, and dark money in politics on such initiatives.

Influential Developers and Investors to Profit From Public Land Sales

During the conversation, Shawn Ryan and Braxton McCoy delve into the question of who stands to gain from the sale of public lands, hinting at the roles of influential developers and investors.

Blackrock, Political Donors, and Allies in Land Sales Seen With Financial Incentives

Discussion reveals that companies like BlackRock could be looking to profit from buying neighborhoods, which underscores the financial motives behind public land sales. Braxton McCoy particularly pointed out organizations such as Club for Growth, Microsoft, and Blackstone among Senator Mike Lee's donors. He suggested these donors, and notably Blackstone with its private equity investments, might have vested financial interests in the deregulation and sale of public lands. McCoy also noted Utah's high ranking in private equity investment in single-family homes, implying that such private equity firms could be motivated to purchase public lands should they become available for private development.

Dark Money in Politics Influences Land Sales Through 501(c)4 Organizations

The discussion goes further into the realm of dark money and undisclosed political influence, particularly through organizations that do not have to disclose ...

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Motivations and Financial Interests Behind Land Sale Efforts

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can research the ownership of local properties to understand who is investing in your community and how it might affect you. Start by using online public records and local property tax databases to see which companies and investors own significant amounts of property in your area. This will give you insight into the potential motivations behind land sales and developments near you.
  • Engage with local government meetings and public comment periods to voice your concerns or support for land sale policies. Find out when your city council or county board meetings are held, and attend them to listen for discussions related to land sales. Prepare a statement or questions to contribute during public comment periods, ensuring your perspective is heard by decision-makers.
  • Educa ...

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#213 Braxton McCoy - Why is the US Government Selling Millions of Acres of Public Land?

Advocacy and Organizing to Prevent Public Land Sales

In the fight to prevent the sale of public lands, veterans, hunters, and anglers are aligning to oppose such plans, exemplified by Braxton McCoy's advocacy work. Advocates like McCoy face significant challenges, including online harassment and allegations of bribery, as they work to preserve these lands for future generations.

Veterans, Hunters, and Anglers Oppose Land Sale Plans

Activists and public figures are rallying together to protect public land from being sold, with Braxton McCoy standing out as a prominent voice in this effort.

Braxton Mccoy Advocates For Preserving Public Lands

Shawn Ryan introduces Braxton McCoy, a combat veteran and guide who has been vocal since 2016 about preserving public lands, such as the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. McCoy, raised using these lands for outdoor activities, advocates for not losing a single acre to privatization. He presents his stance patriotically, suggesting that the lands bought with blood should not be sold off. McCoy disapproves of conflating military bases and Indian reservations with public land, cautioning against changes to public land designations. He emphasizes that public access to lands, such as the "corner crossing fight," is essential and that many Americans, by a majority of up to 80 percent, are opposed to the sale of public lands.

Influencers and Organizations Rally Opposition and Raise Awareness

McCoy is not alone in his efforts; influential figures like Cameron Haynes, MeatEater, Jocko Willink, Joe Rogan, and Senator Tim Sheehy have joined the cause, drawing attention to the issue and opposing land sales. Shawn Ryan himself was prompted to engage with the topic after seeing tweets from these individuals.

Public Land Advocates Face Pressure, Potential Retribution For Activism

Advocacy work is not without its risks, as evidenced by the harassment and intimidation tactics used against activists like McCoy.

Mccoy Reports Online Harassment, Bribery Allegations, and Pressure to Cancel the Interview

Despite his dedication to preserving public lands, McCoy has faced opposition, including allegations of bribery and pressure to ...

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Advocacy and Organizing to Prevent Public Land Sales

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The alignment of veterans, hunters, and anglers may not represent the full spectrum of stakeholders interested in public land management, and other groups may have different perspectives on the best use of these lands.
  • While preserving public lands is important, there may be cases where the sale or lease of public lands could be beneficial for economic development, especially in communities that are struggling financially.
  • Some may argue that the privatization of certain public lands could lead to better maintenance and conservation due to the investment and interest of private owners in maintaining the value of their property.
  • The emphasis on public access to lands might overlook the need for certain restrictions to protect sensitive ecosystems or wildlife, which can sometimes be better managed through limited access.
  • The reported 80% of Americans opposing the sale of public lands might not reflect the nuances of public opinion, which could vary greatly depending on the specific context of the land sale and the proposed use of the land.
  • Advocacy work often involves facing opposition and criticism, and while harassment and intimidation are unacceptable, some pushback or scrutiny could be a legitimate part of the democratic pr ...

Actionables

- You can express your stance by writing to your local representatives to voice your concerns about public land sales, ensuring your message is clear, respectful, and outlines the benefits of preserving these lands for community use and environmental conservation.

  • Writing letters or emails to elected officials is a direct way to influence policy. Make sure to personalize your message with your experiences or connections to public lands, and explain how their preservation impacts your life and the community. For example, if you frequently hike or fish on public lands, share how these activities contribute to your well-being and local economy.
  • Start a social media awareness campaign using hashtags like #PreservePublicLands to share information and personal stories about the importance of keeping these lands accessible to all.
  • Social media campaigns can reach a wide audience and create a community of supporters. Share photos and experiences from public lands, and encourage others to do the same. This can create a visual and emotional appeal that resonates with people who may not be aware of the issue. For instance, post a picture from a recent camping trip and include a caption about the value of public land access for recreation and wildlife preservation.
  • Volunteer ...

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