Podcasts > Shawn Ryan Show > #205 Dino Mavrookas - Fmr. Navy SEAL (DEVGRU) / CEO of Saronic Technologies

#205 Dino Mavrookas - Fmr. Navy SEAL (DEVGRU) / CEO of Saronic Technologies

By Shawn Ryan Show

In this episode of the Shawn Ryan Show, former Navy SEAL Dino Mavrookas discusses the current state of U.S. naval capabilities compared to China's rapid maritime expansion. He outlines the stark contrast in shipbuilding capacity between the two nations and examines the challenges facing U.S. defense innovation, including bureaucratic procurement processes and the concentration of defense contracts among a handful of major contractors.

Mavrookas then shares insights into how his company, Seranic, approaches these challenges through the development of autonomous maritime platforms. He details the technical capabilities of their vessel fleet, which can operate independently or in coordinated groups, and explains how their modular design supports various military applications. The discussion covers Seranic's production facilities and their collaboration with military partners to address evolving naval requirements.

#205 Dino Mavrookas - Fmr. Navy SEAL (DEVGRU) / CEO of Saronic Technologies

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#205 Dino Mavrookas - Fmr. Navy SEAL (DEVGRU) / CEO of Saronic Technologies

1-Page Summary

U.S. Shipbuilding and Naval Capability Crisis vs. China

U.S. Naval Decline as China Expands

The contrast in naval capabilities between the U.S. and China is stark. According to Dino Mavrookas, while the U.S. built 18,000 ships in 1943, it only constructed 8 ships in 2023 while retiring 12, resulting in a net loss of 4 vessels. The disparity is even more pronounced in shipbuilding capacity: China can build 23 million gross tons annually, compared to the U.S.'s mere 100,000 tons—a 230:1 ratio. In just 25 years, China has grown from 5% to 50% of global shipbuilding capacity, while the U.S. remains at 0.1%.

U.S. Challenges in Defense Industry Innovation

The U.S. faces significant obstacles in defense procurement and innovation. Mavrookas points out that the defense acquisition process is slow and bureaucratic, often taking over four years to complete. The dominance of the "Big 5" contractors—Lockheed, Raytheon, Northrop, Boeing, and General Dynamics—who control 50% of government contracts, further stifles innovation from smaller companies.

Seranic's Approach To Reindustrializing U.S. Shipbuilding

Seranic, led by former Navy Seal Dino Mavroukas, is developing autonomous maritime platforms to address these challenges. Their fleet includes vessels ranging from 6 to 150 feet, equipped with advanced sensors and impressive capabilities. For instance, their 24-foot Corsair vessel boasts a 1,000 nautical mile range and 1,000-pound payload capacity.

The company is expanding its production facilities, with an upgraded 420,000-square-foot facility in Austin and plans for a Louisiana shipyard. Their software platform enables a single operator to manage multiple vessels simultaneously, with the boats capable of autonomous navigation and coordinated operations.

Capabilities of Seranic's Autonomous Maritime Systems

Seranic's vessels can operate independently or in supervised swarms, using onboard intelligence for autonomous operations. The platforms are designed to be resilient in contested environments, functioning even during communication disruptions thanks to edge processing capabilities and military-grade encryption.

Mavrookas emphasizes that their modular design allows for integration of various mission payloads, from sensors to weapons systems. The company maintains close partnerships with the military to ensure their autonomous solutions meet evolving naval requirements and support new capabilities.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The comparison of ship numbers built in 1943 versus 2023 may not account for the differences in technology, capabilities, and strategic needs of the respective eras.
  • The gross tonnage capability of shipbuilding does not necessarily equate to naval power or effectiveness; quality, technology, and force projection capabilities are also critical factors.
  • The percentage of global shipbuilding capacity may not directly correlate with naval power, as military and commercial shipbuilding are different sectors with different outputs.
  • The slow defense acquisition process could be attributed to necessary checks and balances that ensure the procurement of effective and reliable systems.
  • The dominance of the "Big 5" defense contractors could be seen as a concentration of expertise and resources that might lead to economies of scale and more sophisticated technological advancements.
  • Autonomous maritime platforms, while innovative, may still face challenges in integration, reliability, and acceptance within traditional naval operations.
  • The capabilities of Seranic's vessels, as impressive as they may be, would need to be proven in real-world conditions to validate their effectiveness.
  • The expansion of production facilities is a positive step, but the success of such an expansion would depend on the company's ability to secure contracts and deliver on its promises.
  • The ability of a single operator to manage multiple vessels could raise concerns about over-reliance on technology and the potential for catastrophic failure if the system is compromised.
  • Operating independently or in swarms is a novel concept, but it may face operational challenges in coordination, communication, and rules of engagement in complex maritime scenarios.
  • Resilience in contested environments is crucial, but the actual performance of these systems under real-world combat conditions would be the ultimate test of their design.
  • Modular design offers flexibility, but it also requires rigorous testing to ensure that different payloads can be integrated without compromising performance or safety.
  • Partnerships with the military are essential, but the effectiveness of these partnerships would be measured by the ability to adapt to changing defense needs and to deliver solutions that are truly useful in combat situations.

Actionables

  • You can explore the world of shipbuilding and maritime technology by building a small model ship or remote-controlled boat. This hands-on project will give you a tangible understanding of the design and engineering principles that go into maritime construction, similar to how companies like Seranic develop advanced vessels. Start with a simple kit and as you become more comfortable, try customizing your model with sensors or experimenting with different materials to simulate the modular design and resilience mentioned.
  • Consider investing in a stock or mutual fund that focuses on maritime, defense, or technology sectors. By choosing investments related to these industries, you can financially support and benefit from the growth and innovation in areas like autonomous maritime platforms. Research funds that include companies innovating in shipbuilding or defense technology, ensuring that your investment aligns with the trends and challenges discussed.
  • Engage with maritime technology by participating in online simulations or games that involve ship management and strategy. This virtual experience can provide insights into the complexities of maritime operations, fleet management, and the strategic deployment of vessels, akin to Seranic's software platform that enables a single operator to manage multiple vessels. Look for simulations that offer realistic scenarios and allow for the integration of different mission payloads, enhancing your understanding of the strategic decisions involved in maritime operations.

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#205 Dino Mavrookas - Fmr. Navy SEAL (DEVGRU) / CEO of Saronic Technologies

U.S. Shipbuilding and Naval Capability Crisis vs. China

The podcast discusses the critical condition of U.S. naval capabilities and shipbuilding capacity compared to China's aggressive expansion in the same area, focusing on the disparity in production and preparedness.

U.S. Naval Decline as China Expands

The guests outline the alarming decline in U.S. shipbuilding vis-à-vis China's impressive growth in the sector.

U.S. Built 18,000 Ships In 1943, Only 8 in 2023, Retires 12, Net Loss of 4

The U.S. constructed an impressive 18,000 ships in the year 1943; however, in 2023, the scenario is dismal with only eight ships built, and 12 retired, leaving a net loss of four vessels. Dino Mavrookas highlights the stark contrast between the World War II era productivity and today's output.

China's 23 Million Tons in Shipbuilding Capacity vs. U.S.'s 100,000, a 230:1 Ratio

Both Mavrookas and the U.S. Naval statistics reveal that China can construct 23 million gross tons of ships every year, while the United States can muster a mere 100,000 gross tons, setting a staggering 230:1 ratio. In just 25 years, China expanded from holding 5% to 50% of the world's global shipbuilding capacity, whereas the U.S. currently stands at only 0.1%.

China Outpaces U.S. In Shipbuilding: 3-To-1 In Combat Ships, 230x Capacity

Mavrookas points out that China is extensively outperforming the U.S. in shipbuilding, having achieved a 3-to-1 ratio in combatant ships and holding an overwhelming 230 times the shipbuilding capacity. In less than a quarter-century, the Chinese navy has not only expanded dramatically but has also been specifically developing military solutions aimed at countering U.S. power.

U.S. Challenges in Defense Industry Innovation and Acquisitions

The episode also sheds light on systemic challenges the U.S. faces in maintaining and innovating its defense industry.

U.S. Defense Procurement: Slow, Bureaucratic, Ill-suited For Rapid Tech Change

The show tackles the sluggish U.S. defense procurement system, criticized by Mavrookas as ill-suited for rapid technological change. He explains that the defense technology acquisition process can take upwards of four years, often rendering the technology outdated by the time it's implemented.

Private Defense Innovators Hindered by "Big 5" Contractors' Dominance

Mavrookas touches upon the stifling effect of the "Big 5" defense contractors' dominance on private defense innovators. The massive consolidation in the defense contracting sector since 1993 has left ...

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U.S. Shipbuilding and Naval Capability Crisis vs. China

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Counterarguments

  • The comparison of ship numbers built in 1943 and 2023 may not account for the vastly different strategic contexts and technological advancements; modern warships are far more complex and capable, requiring longer construction times and more resources per vessel.
  • The raw tonnage of shipbuilding capacity may not directly translate to naval combat effectiveness; quality, technological sophistication, and force projection capabilities are also critical factors.
  • The 3-to-1 ratio in combat ships does not necessarily reflect the actual combat readiness or technological edge of the fleets; the U.S. Navy may have advantages in training, experience, logistics, and networked operations.
  • The U.S. defense procurement system, while slow, is designed to ensure accountability and thorough testing, which can lead to higher quality and more reliable military technology in the long term.
  • The dominance of the "Big ...

Actionables

  • You can increase your awareness of global manufacturing shifts by tracking shipbuilding trends. Start by following industry news sources and maritime trade publications to observe how different countries are advancing in shipbuilding. This will give you a broader understanding of international economic dynamics and may inform your investment or career decisions.
  • Enhance your knowledge of defense procurement by participating in online simulations or strategy games that mimic the complexities of military logistics. Games like these often require players to navigate bureaucratic challenges and adapt to technological changes, providing a hands-on understanding of the issues faced by defense procurement in real l ...

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#205 Dino Mavrookas - Fmr. Navy SEAL (DEVGRU) / CEO of Saronic Technologies

Seranic's Approach To Reindustrializing U.S. Shipbuilding Through Autonomy

Seranic is taking a unique approach to reinvent U.S. shipbuilding through the development and production of autonomous maritime platforms. With the combined expertise in military, technology, and policy, the company is gearing up to scale production and drive the adoption of new capabilities in collaboration with government, military, and industry partners.

Seranic Develops New Modular, Scalable Autonomous Maritime Platforms

Seranic, under the leadership of Dino Mavroukas, a former Navy Seal, is working towards outpacing Chinese shipbuilding capabilities. Mavroukas emphasizes the need for a significant reduction in manpower by adopting autonomous platforms, especially in response to recruiting issues and the need to compete against countries with larger populations and mandatory military service.

Seranic's Boats: 6-150 Feet, Advanced Sensors, Long Range, High Payload Capacities

The company crafts modular, scalable boats ranging from 6 to 150 feet, with advanced sensors, long-range capabilities, and high payload capacities. There's a focus on versatility, with the boats tailored to fit both military and commercial uses. The Corsair, a 24-foot vessel, boasts a 1,000 nautical mile range and a 1,000-pound payload capacity. Similarly, the smaller six-foot boat has a 30 nautical mile range with a 40-pound capacity, and the 14-foot boat extends to a 300 nautical mile range with a 200-pound payload capacity. These boats are equipped with multiple cameras for a 360-degree view and are designed with dual-use in mind to ensure resiliency in military supply needs.

Seranic Software: Flexible Payloads & Coordinated Operations

Seranic's software platform allows for flexibility in handling a variety of payloads, ranging from sensors to electronic warfare and kinetic capabilities. It permits a single operator to manage multiple boats, potentially hundreds, due to its scalability. These boats can autonomously plot routes and execute coordinated operations, sharing information with the operator and with each other. Designed to be modular in both hardware and software, Seranic's platforms can be quickly adapted to changing mission requirements.

Seranic Invests in High-Volume Autonomous Vessel Production

Seranic is heavily investing in their production capabilities. With an upgraded facility in Austin and plans for a shipyard in Louisiana, they aim to scale up their output significantly. The Austin site will expand to 420,000 square feet to help increase production from hundreds to thousands of boats per year. Meanwhile, the Louisiana shipyard is set to produce 50 autonomous ships annually, with the intention of manufacturing hundreds each year as the company grows.

Seranic's Founders Unite Military, Technology, and Policy Expertise

With Mavroukas’ Navy Seal background providing him with a deep understanding of military needs and innovation challenges, and an all-star team of experts in maritime autonomy, software engineering, and government contracting, Seranic is poised to make a significant impact in the maritime industry.

Rob, with a wealth of experie ...

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Seranic's Approach To Reindustrializing U.S. Shipbuilding Through Autonomy

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Clarifications

  • A CRADA stands for Cooperative Research and Development Agreement. It is a legal agreement between a private company and a government agency, like the military, to collaborate on research and development projects. CRADAs allow the sharing of resources, expertise, and intellectual property to advance technology and innovation in a mutually beneficial way.
  • A prime contractor is a company that directly contracts with the government or another entity for a project or service. They are responsible for overseeing and managing the entire project, including subcontractors and suppliers. Prime contractors often have significant expertise and resources to handle complex projects efficiently. They play a crucial role in coordinating various aspects of a project to ensure its successful completion.
  • Intersectional knowledge in this context means that the team at Seranic possesses a diverse range of expertise and experience across different fields such as military, technology, policy, and maritime autonomy. This varied knowledge allows them to approach challenges and opportunities from multiple perspectives, leading to innovative solutions and a comprehensive understanding of the industry. It emphasizes the importance of having a te ...

Counterarguments

  • The focus on autonomy may overlook the importance of human judgment and decision-making in complex maritime scenarios.
  • Modular and scalable platforms might not be as robust or specialized as dedicated vessels designed for specific tasks.
  • The range and payload capacities, while impressive, may not meet all the requirements of military or commercial operations.
  • A software platform that allows a single operator to manage multiple vessels could introduce risks of over-reliance on technology and potential vulnerabilities in cybersecurity.
  • High-volume production ambitions may face challenges in maintaining quality control and ensuring each vessel meets the necessary safety and performance standards.
  • The expertise of the founders, while diverse, may not cover all aspects of maritime operations, such as environme ...

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#205 Dino Mavrookas - Fmr. Navy SEAL (DEVGRU) / CEO of Saronic Technologies

Capabilities and Concepts of Seranic's Autonomous Maritime Systems

Seranic is filling a crucial gap in the market for autonomous surface boats that the Navy needs to maintain naval superiority. Mavrookas highlights the advent of Seranic's autonomous vessels and how their innovative design addresses various contemporary maritime challenges.

Seranic's Autonomous Vessels Operate Independently or in Supervised Swarms

Vessels Use Onboard Intelligence for Autonomous Operations With Minimal Human Control

Seranic has developed advanced autonomous vessels, enabling independent operations that could form a vast listening network for submarine detection. These vessels function with minimal human oversight due to the onboard intelligence, such as perception built into the autonomy and a 360-degree view enabled by multiple cameras, capable of coordinating actions among multiple boats.

Seranic's Architecture Lets one Operator Simultaneously Control Multiple Autonomous Vessels

The innovative architecture allows a single operator to control a fleet of these vessels, simplifying tasks that would've needed extensive human intervention, like navigating routes for each boat. Instead, general mission directives are programmed into the boats' software, and the vessels communicate with each other to share tasks and avoid collisions efficiently.

Seranic's Systems: Resilient, Secure, and Survivable in Contested Maritime Environments

Seranic's platforms are designed to survive in contested maritime environments, functioning even amid communication jamming. Intelligence at the edge allows these vessels to process information locally and remain operational even with disrupted communications. This capability is further enhanced by military-grade encryption and rigorous cybersecurity measures designed to protect against threats like corporate espionage by nation-states.

Seranic's Autonomous Vessels Accommodate Various Mission Payloads, Including Defence and Offense

Seranic's Design Allows Integration of New Sensors, Communications, and Weapons Systems

The modular ...

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Capabilities and Concepts of Seranic's Autonomous Maritime Systems

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Counterarguments

  • The claim that Seranic fills a crucial gap in the market may not account for other competitors who are also developing advanced autonomous maritime systems.
  • Autonomous operations with minimal human control raise concerns about accountability and decision-making in critical situations where human judgment may be superior.
  • The ability of one operator to control multiple vessels could lead to over-reliance on technology and underestimation of the value of human expertise and oversight in complex maritime operations.
  • While Seranic's systems are described as resilient and secure, no system is entirely immune to failure or cyber threats, and overconfidence in security measures can lead to vulnerabilities.
  • The adaptability of Seranic's vessels to accommodate various mission payloads might lead to a jack-of-all-trades scenario, where specialized vessels could perform certain tasks more effectively. ...

Actionables

  • You can explore the concept of autonomy by starting a small-scale automation project at home, such as automating your garden's watering system using a simple microcontroller and moisture sensors. This hands-on experience will give you a basic understanding of how systems can operate independently and respond to environmental conditions, mirroring the autonomous operations of vessels like Seranic on a much smaller scale.
  • Consider participating in or observing local drone flying clubs or competitions to see autonomous and semi-autonomous systems in action. Observing how drone operators manage multiple devices and how drones use onboard intelligence can provide insights into the principles behind controlling autonomous fleets, similar to how Seranic's architecture allows for multiple vessel control.
  • Engage with online simulation ...

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