Podcasts > Shawn Ryan Show > #195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

#195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

By Shawn Ryan Show

In this episode of the Shawn Ryan Show, former Wagner Group commander Marat Gabidullin discusses the private military organization's history and operations. The discussion covers the group's formation in 2014 by Evgeny Prigozhin and its initial involvement in eastern Ukraine, as well as its subsequent expansion into Syria, where Wagner forces engaged in significant battles, including a confrontation with U.S. Special Forces at Khasham.

The episode explores Wagner Group's evolution from a military contractor to a complex organization with independent ventures in Africa, including mining operations and industrial projects. Gabidullin details the growing tensions between Wagner's leadership and the Russian military establishment, which culminated in Prigozhin's 2023 attempted coup and eventual downfall, marking a significant shift in Russian security dynamics.

#195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

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#195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

1-Page Summary

The History and Formation of the Wagner Group

The Wagner Group, founded in 2014 during the eastern Ukraine war, was created by Evgeny Prigozhin, a former criminal who built connections with the Kremlin through his military catering business. Prigozhin partnered with Dmitry Utkin, a former GRU officer who became the group's commander, initially forming a core team of about 50 military contractors with experience in Syria.

The Kremlin used the Wagner Group as a deniable force to support separatists in Ukraine while avoiding international sanctions. The group attracted former military personnel with promises of adventure, camaraderie, and attractive pay of around $2,000 monthly.

The Wagner Group's Military Operations, Particularly in Syria

In 2015, the Wagner Group deployed to Syria, initially struggling until Russia's intervention expanded. The group played a crucial role in capturing Palmyra from ISIS, which allowed Prigozhin to expand Wagner's capabilities and demonstrate its value to the Russian government.

A significant turning point came during the Battle of Khasham, where Wagner forces faced U.S. Special Forces and Kurdish fighters. According to Marat Gabidullin, the battle resulted in significant Wagner casualties when they attempted to seize the Conoco plant. American forces, using substantial air power, successfully defended their position, resulting in 23 Wagner mercenaries killed and 28 wounded in Gabidullin's unit alone.

Wagner Group's Expansion Into Africa and Independent Ventures

Following Syria, the Wagner Group expanded into Africa, particularly Sudan and the Central African Republic. John Lechner explains that Prigozhin independently pursued mining concessions and industrial ventures like breweries, extending Wagner's influence beyond the Kremlin's priorities. After Prigozhin's death, the Russian government struggled to integrate and control these African operations, complicated by the group's previous independence.

Conflict Between Wagner Group and Russian Government

Tensions arose between Prigozhin and Russian military officials, particularly Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, due to Wagner's independent funding and operations. These tensions culminated in the 2023 Wagner mutiny, where Prigozhin led forces in an attempted coup, overtaking the southern Russian military command in Rostov. Despite negotiations by Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko to halt the march to Moscow, Prigozhin's actions led to his eventual downfall three months later, fundamentally reshaping Russian security dynamics.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The assertion that the Wagner Group was used by the Kremlin to discreetly support separatists in Ukraine could be challenged by the argument that the use of private military companies (PMCs) in conflict zones is a common international practice and not unique to Russia.
  • The idea that the Wagner Group attracted former military personnel solely with promises of adventure, camaraderie, and pay might be oversimplified, as individuals may have been motivated by a variety of factors, including ideological beliefs or lack of civilian employment opportunities.
  • The claim that the Wagner Group played a crucial role in capturing Palmyra from ISIS could be contested by emphasizing the role of other forces, such as the Syrian Army and Russian Air Force, in the operation.
  • The Battle of Khasham's significance could be downplayed by arguing that it was just one of many encounters and may not have been as pivotal as suggested for the Wagner Group's reputation or operational strategy.
  • The expansion of the Wagner Group into Africa and independent ventures could be seen as aligned with Russian foreign policy interests rather than purely independent actions by Prigozhin.
  • The narrative of tensions between Prigozhin and Russian military officials could be interpreted differently, with some arguing that internal disagreements are common within any organization and may not necessarily indicate a significant conflict or divergence in objectives.
  • The description of the 2023 Wagner mutiny could be contested by suggesting that the event may have been exaggerated or misinterpreted, and the actual dynamics within the Russian security apparatus might be more complex than presented.

Actionables

  • You can explore the dynamics of private military companies by starting a book club focused on geopolitical thrillers and military fiction. This can help you understand the complexities of organizations similar to the Wagner Group through a narrative lens. For example, select novels like "Ghost Fleet" by P.W. Singer and August Cole, which delve into future warfare and the role of private forces, and discuss the parallels with real-world entities.
  • Enhance your critical thinking skills by playing strategy video games that simulate military tactics and resource management. Games like "Hearts of Iron IV" or "Arma 3" can provide a virtual experience of military strategy and the consequences of political decisions, mirroring the strategic challenges faced by groups like the Wagner Group.
  • You can gain insight into the motivations behind joining private military companies by volunteering with veteran support groups. Engaging with former military personnel can offer a personal perspective on the allure of private military contracts, similar to the promises made by the Wagner Group. This interaction can foster a deeper understanding of the socio-economic factors that drive individuals towards such organizations.

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#195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

The History and Formation of the Wagner Group

Wagner Group, Founded In 2014 During the Eastern Ukraine War by Evgeny Prigozhin, a Criminal Close to Putin

The Wagner Group, a name now known globally for its private military endeavors, was founded in 2014 during the eastern Ukraine war by Evgeny Prigozhin, a figure with a checkered past and close ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Prigozhin Used Kremlin Ties and Military Catering to Form a Private Army In Ukraine

Evgeny Prigozhin's origin story reads like a gangster tale turned corporate titan; from a petty thief and gangster jailed at the age of 18, he later emerged as a successful businessman leveraging connections from running restaurants in St. Petersburg. These connections with the Kremlin, formed through military catering contracts, positioned him to raise a private army amidst the chaos of Ukraine's political upheaval. Prigozhin saw an opportunity to further curry favor with Putin when the Ukrainian revolution unfolded and the annexation of Crimea ignited conflict in eastern Ukraine. He allied with Dmitry Utkin, a former GRU officer who went on to become the main commander of the Wagner Group, to provide privatized military support to the separatists.

Initial Wagner Group Core: 50 Ex-Syria Military Contractors, Dmitry Utkin Commander

The Wagner Group's core was initially formed by about 50 contractors with military background, mainly from a private military company (PMC) in Syria. These individuals, along with Dmitry Utkin, whose call sign 'Wagner' would christen the group, possessed the tactical knowledge and experience necessary for covert operations. Prigozhin, wielding his Kremlin access and financial resources, sealed a deal with Utkin to combine their respective strengths and form this deniable force.

Kremlin Used Wagner Group to Support Separatists in Ukraine As a Deniable Force

The Wagner Group became the Kremlin's deniable force, with the Russian government aiming to support the anti-Maidan protesters and separatists in eastern Ukraine without risking international sanctions or further isolation.

Kremlin Backed Separatists to Dodge Sanctions; Wagner Offered Manpower and Expertise, Kremlin Gave Political and Financial Aid

P ...

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The History and Formation of the Wagner Group

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can explore the dynamics of private military companies by starting a book club focused on geopolitical thrillers and military fiction. This can deepen your understanding of the complexities and ethical considerations surrounding entities like the Wagner Group. For example, select novels that delve into the world of mercenaries and discuss the motivations of characters that resemble ex-military personnel who join private armies.
  • Enhance your critical thinking skills by playing strategy video games that simulate war scenarios and require the management of resources and troops. Games like these often incorporate elements of political intrigue and deniable operations, mirroring the real-world actions of groups like the Wagner Group. Reflect on the decisions you make in-game and how they relate to the strategic use of private forces in conflict zones.
  • Voluntee ...

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#195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

The Wagner Group's Military Operations, Particularly in Syria

2015 Wagner Group Deployment in Syria: Initial Struggles Due to Russian Military's Ineffective Utilization

The Wagner Group, utilized by the Russian Ministry of Defense (MOD) to support separatists, was one of the forces employed during Russia's maneuvers to influence ceasefire negotiations and take control over separatist republics. Marat Gabidullin arrived in Syria in April 2015, around the time when Russia overtly intervened with a full air campaign. Initially, Wagner forces in Syria, comprising about 50 guys, including Marat, struggled as the Russian military did not utilize them effectively, resulting in casualties and retreat.

However, the scale of their involvement shifted when Russian air-power proved insufficient to defeat Assad's opposition and ISIS. Prigozhin and Utkin ensured Wagner forces were reintroduced in Syria, participating in the capture of Palmyra from ISIS and allowing Prigozhin to expand Wagner's size, capabilities, and showcase its value to the Russian government. The use of Wagner mercenaries enabled the Russian military to maintain the appearance of a war with little bloodshed as they did not have to report casualties within the mercenary group.

Battle of Khasham: Wagner Vs. U.S. Special Forces and Kurds, Resulting In Wagner's Defeat

Marat Gabidullin provides an in-depth account of the Battle of Khasham, detailing the heavy casualties suffered by the Wagner Group against U.S. Special Forces and Kurdish fighters. Gabidullin admits that due to indecisive actions and insufficient resources, his force failed to take a factory encompassing infrastructure of an important oil field near Deir Ezzor, Syria. The subsequent engagement led to defeat and casualties for Wagner forces as they were met with overwhelming American air power.

Shawn Ryan teases a discussion about the Battle of Khasham, noting that 500 Wagner Group soldiers were pitted against 40 U.S. Special Forces alongside Kurdish partner forces. The conflict escalated when the Wagner Group tried to seize the valuable Conoco plant near Khasham, which was under control of U.S. and Kurdish forces. Gabidullin explained that the Wagner forces were only 300 meters from the U.S. stronghold, ready to attack, but were prevented by a powerful American counteroffensive.

During the assault, the American forces utilized significant air power, including Apaches, combat drones, and two Spectre gunships, to suppress the attack. The U.S. had contacted the Russian Ministry of Defense to confirm if the attacking force was Russian-backed; however, despite denials from the ministry, the battle continued, resulting in the destruction of two of Wagner's assault units and aroun ...

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The Wagner Group's Military Operations, Particularly in Syria

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can enhance your critical thinking by analyzing the effectiveness of different strategies in complex situations. For instance, take a current event or historical conflict and assess the strategic decisions made by the involved parties. Consider factors like resource allocation, tactical maneuvers, and the element of surprise. This exercise can sharpen your ability to evaluate strategies in your own life, whether it's for negotiating a raise or planning a complex project.
  • Improve your media literacy by researching and comparing multiple sources on a controversial event. Look for discrepancies in reporting, such as casualty numbers or the portrayal of certain groups. This practice will help you develop a more nuanced understanding of how information can be presented and manipulated, which is valuable for making informed decisions in your personal and professional life.
  • Develop your continge ...

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#195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

Wagner Group's Expansion Into Africa and Independent Ventures

The Wagner Group, following its entanglements in the conflicts in Syria and Ukraine, has set its sights on new opportunities across Africa, with Prigozhin's untimely death complicating its relation to the Russian government.

Syria Conflict Ends; Wagner Group Expands In Africa, Signs in Sudan, Central African Republic

With the de-escalation of Syrian conflict, the Wagner Group has been proactive in asserting its presence in Africa.

Wagner Group Independently Pursued Mining and Brewing In Africa

Former member Marat Gabidullin observed the group's expansion in Africa, noting its activities in Sudan and Central African Republic (CAR). In these countries, the Wagner Group signed contracts for training and secured mining concessions, further extending their reach without direct Russian competition. Not only has the group delved into training but also into industrial ventures such as running breweries and pursuing gold mining operations. These actions suggest Wagner's independent pursuit of profit and influence outside the Kremlin's slated areas of interest.

Prigozhin's African Expansion Enhanced Wagner Group's Influence Beyond Kremlin Priorities

John Lechner explains that Prigozhin, presented to the Kremlin an opportunity for Russia to extend its global presence through potentially lucrative business ventures that would also finance Wagner operations. By exploiting the Kremlin's disinterest in certain African regions, Prigozhin independently financed Wagner operations and expanded the group's sway beyond Russian geopolitical objectives.

Wagner Group's Africa Activities Strain Ties With Russian Government

The expansion and independent ventures of the Wagner Group in Africa have introduced new challenges for the Russian government in terms of control and resource conflicts.

Russia Struggled to Integrate Wagner Group's African Operations, Leading To Resource and Control Conflicts

The complexity of integrating the Wagner Group's African commercial interests has led to resource and control disputes. Foll ...

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Wagner Group's Expansion Into Africa and Independent Ventures

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can enhance your global awareness by tracking the activities of international groups like Wagner in real-time using open-source intelligence tools. Start by setting up alerts on social media platforms and news aggregators for keywords related to Wagner Group and its known areas of operation. This will give you a live feed of information and help you understand the dynamics of such organizations as they evolve.
  • Develop critical thinking skills by analyzing the impact of private military companies on international relations through online courses or webinars. Look for educational resources that focus on the geopolitical implications of non-state actors. This knowledge can help you form informed opinions and contribute to discussions on topics like international security and conflict resolution.
  • You can practice ethical consumerism by researching the origins of p ...

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#195 Marat Gabidullin - Wagner Group Commander / Russian Mercenary

Conflict Between Wagner Group and Russian Government

John Lechner delves into the intricate conflict between Evgeny Prigozhin, who leads the Wagner Group, and Russian government authorities, detailing a narrative of tension, aspirations, and a power struggle within Russia's security dynamics.

Wagner Group's Prigozhin Ties and Military Independence Cause Tensions

Lechner paints a picture of the Wagner Group as it relates to Russian government operations, where Prigozhin straddles both the ambitions of the Kremlin and his private profit-driven ventures. Prigozhin's direct access to Putin and independent actions have made him a source of irritation for military officials, including those in the general staff and the Ministry of Defense led by Minister Sergei Shoigu.

Wagner Group's Funding Threatened Ministry of Defense Power

The struggle for control is partly fueled by financial interests, with Prigozhin's funding mechanisms for the Wagner Group bypassing the Ministry of Defense and thereby depriving Minister Shoigu of the opportunity to benefit financially, which further escalates the tension.

Prigozhin's Ambition and Risk in Khasham Battle Heightened Wagner-Russian Tensions

Prigozhin's ambition and high-risk tolerance, evidenced by his approach in the Battle of Khasham against American forces, has historically been a catalyst for creating tension with the Russian military establishment. His audacity is both a means for outmaneuvering rivals within the Russian hierarchy and exacerbating already strained relations.

2023 Wagner Mutiny Against Russian Government

Prigozhin's Coup Reveals Wagner Group's Rift With Russian Military Establishment

In 2023, Wagner forces, under Prigozhin's command, moved from Ukraine to southern Russia with an apparent goal of capturing and executing Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. This culminated in an attempted coup on June 23, 2023, when Wagner forces overtook the southern Russian military command in Rostov. Shoigu, however, evaded arrest. This act underscored a profound rift with the Russian military establishment and highlighted Prigozhin's grave miscalculation in assuming that Putin would support him over S ...

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Conflict Between Wagner Group and Russian Government

Additional Materials

Actionables

  • You can analyze power dynamics in your workplace by mapping out the relationships and influence levels between different departments or teams. Just like the tensions between Prigozhin and the Russian military, understanding where conflicts may arise in your organization can help you navigate them more effectively. For example, if you notice that one department is bypassing another in decision-making processes, you might suggest a meeting to clarify roles and improve communication.
  • Enhance your conflict resolution skills by role-playing scenarios where you mediate a dispute between two parties with competing interests. Imagine yourself as Belarus President Lukashenko, who attempted to halt Wagner's march. By practicing mediation, you can develop the ability to de-escalate situations and find common ground, which is valuable in both professional and personal settings.
  • Reflect on your own ...

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