#188 Leigh & Robert Bortins - Why Parents Are Ditching Public Schools for Homeschooling
In this episode of the Shawn Ryan Show, guests Leigh and Robert Bortins discuss the shortcomings of the public education system and the benefits of homeschooling through a classical Christian model. They argue that public schools were established to undermine parental authority and instill socialist values, while lacking a focus on critical thinking.
The episode explores Classical Conversations, a community-based classical education program that aims to develop strong academics, biblical values, and a love of learning. Bortins highlight the program's rigorous curriculum, emphasis on public speaking and community service, and the ability for students to earn college credits and scholarships pre-graduation. They advocate for preserving educational freedom amid efforts to regulate homeschooling and challenge the public education model.
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1-Page Summary
Classical vs. Public Education
Horace Mann Promoted Public Schools to Replace Christianity and Individualism With Marxist Socialism
According to Robert Bortins, Horace Mann aimed to eliminate Christianity, individualism, and capitalism through public education, shifting away from America's Christian foundation towards wealth redistribution and socialism. Leigh Bortins adds that public education undermines parental authority, with evidence that parents increasingly feel lack of control over their children's education and identity.
Public Education Modeled After Prussian System to Create Obedient Citizens, Not Independent Thinkers
Robert Bortins states the U.S. public education system was imported from Prussia, intended to create obedient citizens rather than thinkers. Leigh Bortins contrasts this with classical models involving community service, and cites data showing only 3% of Gen Z has a biblical worldview, suggesting Mann's plan to move the U.S. away from Christian values succeeded.
The Structure and Curriculum of Classical Conversations
Classical Conversations: Community-Based Classical Christian Education
Classical Conversations (CC) blends classical education methods with a Christian worldview. It involves weekly community meetings with tutors where parents actively participate. The curriculum follows the classical trivium of grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric, emphasizing memorization, critical thinking, and communication.
CC: Building Academics, Biblical Values, and Love Of Learning
K-6 students memorize facts, present publicly, and engage in activities like art and science projects. Older students enhance writing, research, debate skills, culminating in a senior thesis presentation. The rigorous curriculum produces confident, articulate graduates prepared for higher education.
The Benefits of the Classical Conversations Approach
CC Students Earn College Credits & Scholarships Pre-graduation
CC's rigor enables students to earn scholarships and college credits prior to graduating. For example, one student won a $250,000 scholarship for skills like impromptu speaking. Around 70% receive academic scholarships.
Classical Conversations Model Fosters Relationships, Aiding Students' Social and Interpersonal Skills Development
CC's emphasis on group activities like mock trials and debates helps develop public speaking skills and confidence. The program encourages community involvement, service, and inclusion, fostering maturity and empathy in students.
Challenges and Opposition to Homeschooling
Efforts to Regulate Homeschooling Threaten Educational Freedom
States like Illinois and Virginia aim to increase homeschool regulations, requiring parents to file paperwork and demonstrate competencies. Leigh Bortins argues against allowing states to dictate homeschooling practices, advocating for preserving educational freedom and parental rights.
Classical Education Model Challenges Public Education System
Leigh Bortins states public schools cannot accomplish what CC achieves. Robert Bortins suggests critics may not understand CC's philosophy due to ingrained public school methods. Leigh expresses concern about subsidizing homeschooling as government influence over children's minds.
Role of Family, Church, and Community in Education
Classical Conversations: Parents Lead; Community and Church Support
CC anchors parents as primary educators and spiritual mentors, supported by a community network of families and churches sponsoring groups. Parents collaborate, share expertise, engage in "cottage schools," and develop leadership skills.
Classical Conversations Empowers Parents as Primary Educators and Spiritual Mentors
CC provides a structure with trainers and leaders to guide parents implementing the classical Christian model at home. The aim is preserving Christian values by having families, backed by community and church, educate children.
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Counterarguments
- Horace Mann's intentions for public education may have been more aligned with creating a literate, informed citizenry rather than imposing Marxist socialism.
- Public education can be seen as a means to ensure all children have access to basic education, regardless of their parents' beliefs or socioeconomic status.
- The Prussian model of education was indeed an influence on the American system, but it has evolved significantly since its inception, incorporating more emphasis on critical thinking and creativity.
- The claim that only 3% of Gen Z has a biblical worldview is difficult to substantiate without knowing the methodology and scope of the data collection.
- Classical education, while beneficial in some respects, may not be the best fit for every student or family, and public education offers a more diverse range of subjects and teaching styles.
- Public education also provides opportunities for memorization, critical thinking, and communication, often through a variety of subjects and extracurricular activities.
- Students in public education also have opportunities to earn college credits and scholarships through Advanced Placement (AP) courses, International Baccalaureate (IB) programs, and other initiatives.
- Public schools also foster relationships and social skills development through team sports, clubs, and other group activities.
- Regulation of homeschooling can be seen as a way to ensure that homeschooled students receive a comprehensive education and are not disadvantaged compared to their peers in public schools.
- Public education advocates might argue that public schools can accomplish similar outcomes to Classical Conversations when provided with adequate resources and support.
- While Classical Conversations emphasizes parental involvement, some argue that professional educators are better equipped to teach certain subjects, especially at higher grade levels.
- The empowerment of parents in education is important, but there is also value in exposing children to diverse perspectives and ideas that they might encounter in a more public or secular educational setting.
Actionables
- You can start a book club focused on classical education and Christian values to foster community and critical thinking. Gather a small group of friends or neighbors interested in exploring these topics. Choose books that delve into classical education theories, Christian worldview, and their application in modern society. This will not only enhance your understanding but also create a space for meaningful discussions and relationship building.
- Create a family education plan that incorporates elements of classical education and Christian values. Sit down with your family and discuss the skills and knowledge you value, such as critical thinking, communication, and biblical teachings. Then, design a weekly schedule that includes activities like memorization games, debates on moral dilemmas, and volunteer work that aligns with your beliefs. This hands-on approach allows you to directly influence your family's educational journey and spiritual growth.
- Develop a personal learning project that combines academic subjects with your spiritual beliefs. For example, if you're interested in art, you could research and create a series of paintings that depict stories or themes from the Bible. Or, if science fascinates you, investigate how scientific principles can coexist with your faith. Document your findings and reflections in a blog or journal, which can serve as a testament to integrating classical education methods with a Christian worldview.
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Classical vs. Public Education
The Bortins family discusses the history and influence of public education in America, drawing sharp contrasts between classical education and the public school system established by Horace Mann.
Horace Mann Promoted Public Schools to Replace Christianity and Individualism With Marxist Socialism
Public Education Replaces Parental Authority and Christian Values With a Secular, Government System
Robert Bortins claims Horace Mann was the primary evangelist for the public school system, aiming to eliminate Christianity, individualism, and capitalism. He discusses Mann's influence on the public school system and implies that Mann had ulterior motives of eradicating these values in favor of a system based on the redistribution of wealth. Robert goes on to suggest that Mann had a vision for the public schools in the United States to shift away from the Christian foundation the country was built on.
Leigh Bortins asserts that state education over the last hundred years has undermined the authority of parents and primary values instilled within a family setting. Leigh refers to the United Nations' desire for a global voucher system, raising concerns that this implies a loss of freedoms or comes with hidden costs to personal liberty. Leigh further expresses that public education is by nature socialist and that Marxist ideology will be its content regardless of efforts to counteract it with school prayer or patriotism. As evidence of the long-term success of public schools based on their originators' goals, Leigh points out that parents are increasingly feeling they are not in control of their children's education or even their gender identity.
Public Education Modeled After Prussian System to Create Obedient Citizens, Not Independent Thinkers
Public School Erodes Western Values, Instilling a Collectivist, Statist Worldview
Robert Bortins mentions that the American public education system was imported from Prussia and intende ...
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Classical vs. Public Education
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Counterarguments
- Horace Mann's advocacy for public education was primarily focused on universal access to education and not the elimination of Christianity, individualism, or capitalism.
- Public education aims to provide a common foundation for all students, which can coexist with parental authority and Christian values.
- The United Nations' interest in a global voucher system can be seen as an effort to increase educational access and choice, rather than a threat to personal liberty.
- Public education systems can support a variety of political and economic ideologies, not just socialism or Marxism.
- The goal of adopting the Prussian education model was to improve educational standards and outcomes, not necessarily to create obedient citizens.
- The decline in biblical worldview among Generation Z could be attributed to a variety of comple ...
Actionables
- You can explore alternative education models by researching and considering homeschooling or private schools that align with your values. By doing so, you take a proactive role in your children's education, ensuring it matches your family's beliefs and principles. For example, you might look into classical education curriculums that emphasize Judeo-Christian values or cooperative homeschooling groups in your community that share your educational goals.
- Start a book club with friends or family focused on texts that discuss the history and philosophy of education. This can help you understand different educational approaches and their impacts on society. Choose books that cover the origins of public education, the influence of various educational theorists, and the comparison between different educational systems around the world.
- Engage with local school boards and commun ...
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The Structure and Curriculum of Classical Conversations
Classical Conversations (CC) is both a global homeschooling movement and a community-based classical Christian education system. It offers a blend of classical education methods with a Christian worldview, aiming to foster academic growth, instill biblical values, and cultivate a love of learning.
Classical Conversations: Community-Based Classical Christian Education
Leigh and Robert Bortins outline CC as a program where family participation is crucial, with weekly student group meetings involving parents and trained community tutors.
Weekly Student Group Meetings With Tutors and Parent Participation
The Bortins emphasize the community-driven aspect of CC, where learning takes place in a group setting with a strong parent presence. Communities, led by a community director, organize around weekly meetings facilitated by tutors who are trained by Classical Conversations' home office. Parents participate actively: they observe, learn how to teach at home, and help look after and support one another's children. This is not a drop-off program; instead, one parent is always present, often helping with the child who needs the most assistance. Weekly meetings are divided into 12-week sessions in both the fall and spring, accommodating family schedules and allowing for breaks and travel without students missing significant learning time. An average CC community comprises about 50 students, split into small classroom sizes, with a maximum of eight children.
Curriculum Follows Classical Trivium: Grammar, Dialectic, Rhetoric; Emphasizes Memorization, Critical Thinking, Communication
The curriculum is structured around the classical trivium phases: grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric. This curriculum focuses on the intake of information, analysis, and eloquent expression. Leigh Bortins equates grammar to subjects like Latin, math, science, and history and rhetoric to debate and writing skills. The educational philosophy involves asking students to freely write about what they know, challenging them to express their thoughts and engage with learning materials, irrespective of the subject.
Classical Conversations: Building Academics, Biblical Values, and Love Of Learning
CC emphasizes memorization and public speaking from an early age, as well as enhancing writing, research, and debate skills at higher levels.
K-6 Students Memorize Facts and Engage in Public Speaking
Children from K-6 engage in the Foundations Program, where they memorize facts, are introduced to science experiments and art projects, and participate regularly in public speaking. Even four-year-olds start by presenting to their class on various topics. With age, they engage in more complex presentations, such as the 'Faces of History' segment. Robert Bortins explains that Foundations involves communal days for activities like art or science projects parents might prefer ...
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The Structure and Curriculum of Classical Conversations
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Clarifications
- The classical trivium consists of three stages of learning: grammar, dialectic, and rhetoric. Grammar focuses on the foundational knowledge and rules of a subject. Dialectic involves critical thinking, analysis, and understanding relationships between different pieces of information. Rhetoric emphasizes effective communication, persuasion, and eloquent expression of ideas.
- In Classical Conversations (CC), a community director is a leader responsible for overseeing and organizing the local CC community. They work closely with parents, tutors, and students to ensure the smooth operation of weekly meetings and activities. The community director plays a vital role in maintaining the community's educational focus and fostering a supportive environment for all participants. They serve as a point of contact for logistical coordination, communication, and guidance within the CC community.
- In the context of the senior thesis presentation in Classical Conversations, emulating a process similar to earning a doct ...
Counterarguments
- The emphasis on memorization in Classical Conversations may not cater to all learning styles, as some students may benefit more from experiential or inquiry-based learning approaches.
- The strong Christian worldview may not be suitable for families seeking a secular education or those from different religious backgrounds.
- The requirement for one parent to always be present can be challenging for single-parent households or families where both parents work full-time.
- The small classroom sizes and community-based approach may not provide the same level of socialization or exposure to diverse perspectives as larger, more traditional school settings.
- The focus on classical education methods may not fully prepare students for the technological and digital demands of modern higher education and the workforce.
- The curriculum's heavy reliance on Latin and classical subjects might not align with the interests or future career paths of all students.
- The structure of the program, with its weekly meetings and 12-week sessions, may not be flexible enough to accommodate all family schedules or unexpected life events.
- The cost of participating in Classical Conversations, ...
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The Benefits of the Classical Conversations Approach
Advocates of the Classical Conversations homeschool program highlight its many benefits, which include pre-graduation college credits and scholarships, as well as fostering key social and interpersonal skills in students.
Cc Students Earn College Credits & Scholarships Pre-graduation
Classical Conversations students often receive scholarships from universities that recognize their capabilities and rigorous curriculum. These students have been known to assist professors in grading papers due to their high competence, indicating a level of preparation that is exceptional by traditional academic standards. A partnership with a Florida college enables these students to earn transferable college credits, often graduating with 9 to 12 hours of college coursework already completed.
One standout example is a Classical Conversations student who won a full $250,000 scholarship to Baylor University, demonstrating expertise in impromptu speaking—a skill cultivated through the program's training.
Rigorous Curriculum and Hands-On Learning Produce Confident, Articulate Students Who Excel In Higher Education
Leigh and Robert Bortins describe how, by senior year, Classical Conversations students are engaging with material at a level typically encountered during a master's program. Around 70% of their students receive academic scholarships, further confirming that higher education institutions value the preparation they receive. The curriculum itself is designed to foster not just a wealth of knowledge, but also skills in public speaking, critical thinking, and leadership, culminating in graduates who are ready to excel in higher education.
Classical Conversations Model Fosters Relationships, Aiding Students' Social and Interpersonal Skills Development
Classical Conversations places a strong emphasis on group activities and community involvement. Programs like the mock trial event in Challenge B and the varsity-level structured debate offer opportunities for students to develop public speaking skills and confidence, interacting with peers in a mature setting. These experiences are believed to contribute to students' overall maturity and self-assuredness.
Homeschooled Classical Conversations Students Show Maturity, Empathy, and a Willingness to Serve Others
The homeschooling model encourages students to be active in community service, while the Classical Conversations approach specifically seeks to integrate involvement with the community into ...
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The Benefits of the Classical Conversations Approach
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Impromptu speaking in the context of the Classical Conversations program involves the ability to deliver speeches or presentations without prior preparation. This skill is honed through exercises that require students to think quickly, organize their thoughts effectively, and communicate persuasively on the spot. Classical Conversations students develop impromptu speaking expertise by participating in activities like debates, discussions, and presentations that demand quick thinking and articulate expression. The program emphasizes cultivating this skill to help students become confident and effective communicators in various academic and real-world settings.
- The Classical Conversations approach integrates community involvement into its curriculum by incorporating activities that encourage students to engage with their communities. This involvement is designed to foster social skills, empathy, and a sense of service among students. By participating in community service and events, students learn to interact with others outside of academic settings, promoting a well-rounded educational experience. This emphasis on community engagement aims to develop ...
Counterarguments
- While Classical Conversations students may earn college credits, this is not unique to their program; many other educational approaches, including Advanced Placement (AP) and International Baccalaureate (IB), also offer college credit opportunities.
- The claim that the curriculum is on par with master's level material could be exaggerated and may not accurately reflect the standard academic progression in traditional educational systems.
- The success rate of 70% of students receiving academic scholarships, while impressive, may not account for the self-selecting nature of the homeschooling population, which could include families with more resources and time to dedicate to education.
- Group activities and community involvement are also integral to many traditional schools, suggesting that these benefits are not exclusive to the Classical Conversations model.
- The development of social and interpersonal skills can vary greatly among individuals, and some students might thrive more in a different educational setting that offers a broader social environment than homeschooling.
- The emphasis on community service and maturity could be influenced by the family's values a ...
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Challenges and Opposition to Homeschooling
As homeschooling gains popularity in the United States, it faces challenges and opposition from various fronts seeking to regulate or limit its practices.
Efforts to Regulate Homeschooling Threaten Educational Freedom
Aiming to Control Homeschooling Under the Guise of Social Integration or National Identity
In states like Illinois and Virginia, new legislative efforts aim to increase restrictions on homeschooling. For the first time in 75 years, Illinois is considering requirements for parents to file more paperwork, demonstrate competencies, and possibly become credentialed. Virginia Democrats are seeking to ban homeschooling for religious reasons. These moves signal a push towards more control over homeschooling under the pretenses of ensuring social integration or reinforcing national identity.
In historical context, individuals have faced jail time for homeschooling in the 80s and 90s. Leigh Bortins recalls times when homeschoolers were fined, children were kept indoors to avoid truant officers, and some were even placed in foster care.
Robert Bortins mentions the "accreditation system and our expertise system," suggesting it potentially complicates the homeschooling processes. Different states have varied regulations concerning testing for homeschooled students. Leigh Bortins argues against allowing states to dictate what is permissible in homeschooling, advocating for the preservation of educational freedom and parental rights in guiding children's education.
Classical Education Model Challenges Public Education System
Classical Conversations, Homeschooling Critics Often Misunderstand Philosophy, Benefits
The classical education model, exemplified by Classical Conversations, offers a community-based approach that contrasts sharply with the public education system. Leigh Bortins emphasizes the collaborative effort of parents in this community, suggesting that improvements are seen year after year, unlike in the public school system. She states unequivocally that the public school system cannot accomplish what Classical Conversations achieves and that state funding would inherently destroy their methodology.
Shawn Ryan talks about purchasing property as a real estate investment, not a school, to educate children without government involvement, thereby sidestepping regulation. Leigh Bortins underscores the school choice made possible by homeschoolers challenging compulsory education laws, opposing regulations that could diminish this freedom.
Robert Bortins discloses that public school teachers face difficulties when transitioning to homeschooling; they spend their initial years trying to "unlearn" the methods ingrained by teacher colleges. He suggests that critics of homeschooling and the Classical Conversations appr ...
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Challenges and Opposition to Homeschooling
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Counterarguments
- Increased regulation of homeschooling may be intended to ensure a basic educational standard and child welfare, rather than to limit educational freedom.
- Some argue that oversight is necessary to prevent educational neglect and to ensure that homeschooled children receive a comprehensive education.
- Requiring credentials or competency demonstrations could be seen as a way to maintain educational quality, similar to how public school teachers are required to be certified.
- The ban on homeschooling for religious reasons may be aimed at preventing the use of religion to avoid compliance with educational standards, rather than an attack on religious freedom.
- The historical penalties faced by homeschoolers may not reflect the current context where homeschooling is more widely accepted and regulated.
- Testing for homeschooled students can help assess educational progress and identify areas where additional support might be needed.
- Critics of the classical education model might argue that public education provides important socialization and exposure to diverse ideas and backgrounds that homeschooling may not. ...
Actionables
- You can stay informed about homeschooling legislation by setting up Google Alerts for terms like "homeschooling regulations" and "educational freedom." This way, you'll receive real-time updates on any proposed changes in your state or nationally, allowing you to be proactive in understanding and responding to potential impacts on your homeschooling approach.
- Create a support network by reaching out to local homeschooling groups through social media or community boards. By connecting with others who are also engaged in homeschooling, you can share resources, advice, and experiences that can help navigate the complexities of different educational models and regulatory environments.
- Develop a personalized educational philosophy statement for your homeschooling approach. Reflect on what educ ...
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Role of Family, Church, and Community in Education
Through a comprehensive look at Classical Conversations, it becomes evident that family involvement, coupled with the support of church and community, plays a significant role in educational outcomes. The program operates on the premise that parents are the primary educators and spiritual mentors, complemented by community and church support.
Classical Conversations: Parents Lead; Community and Church Support
Classical Conversations (CC) is anchored in a parental vision that aims to preserve Christian and Western values. Leigh Bortins, influenced by her Christians neighbors like Joni Isaac, embraced this model that fosters collaboration and support among homeschooling families. It gives a strong foundation for the organization, placing parents at the forefront of educating their children.
Program Fosters Collaboration, Support, and Expertise Sharing Among Homeschooling Families
Through Classical Conversations, parents find a network of families that work together. Families can engage in "cottage schools," where they take turns educating children or even hiring teachers, illustrating the strong support system in place. Over time, as CC communities grow, they often split to foster new communities, expanding this network of familial and community engagement.
Leigh Bortins emphasizes the importance of collaboration, where families support one another in difficult times. When one parent tutors, others can assist in supervising children, creating a supportive environment for education. Robert Bortins adds that homeschooling teaches parents and children to reach out to those with expertise within the community, for example, a church member who may be knowledgeable in a certain field.
The company offers a consistent curriculum no matter the location, highlighting the supportive network for homeschooling families. Communities usually convene at churches, with over 2,700 churches sponsoring these groups across the U.S., where community leaders and parents collaborate, continuing the development of business and leadership skills.
Classical Conversations Empowers Parents as Primary Educators and Spiritual Mentors
Parents are supported by a structure that includes trainers who help tutors understand the classical Christian model. This structure extends to include regional and state leaders who work with tutors and parents at live events and help ensure quality within the educational endeavor.
This reinforcement comes from a company that Leigh Bortins describes as a community of parents who work together, with the company providing initial support to foster freedom without excluding any human endeavor. The program is designed to entrust parents to lead their children's educational journey, offering them resources and guidance, and to participate in community days where they can practice and prepare for continuing education at home.
Strengthening Family and Community Bonds Against Modern Educational Fragmentation
Throughout all levels, Classical Conversations emphasizes the preservation of Christian values and the idea that education should align with a family's faith and community. Leigh Bortins points out that there is opposition to the government trying to control children's education and propagates the notion t ...
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Role of Family, Church, and Community in Education
Additional Materials
Counterarguments
- The emphasis on Christian values may not be inclusive of families with different religious beliefs or those who are secular, potentially limiting the program's appeal and accessibility.
- The model assumes that all parents have the time, resources, and ability to be the primary educators, which may not be feasible for every family due to various socioeconomic factors.
- The reliance on community and church support may not be sustainable in areas where such networks are weak or non-existent, potentially leading to unequal educational opportunities.
- The program's focus on Western and Christian values could be seen as lacking in cultural diversity and may not adequately prepare students for a globalized world.
- The structure of Classical Conversations may not align with state educational standards, which could create challenges for students who transition to or from public or private school systems.
- The model may not provide enough socialization opportunities with a broader peer group, which is important for the development of social skills and exposure to diverse perspectives.
- The approach may not be suitable for all learning styles, as some students may benefit more from a traditional classroom environment or different educational philosophie ...
Actionables
- You can start a book club with a focus on classical Christian education to deepen your understanding and share insights with like-minded parents. Gather a small group of homeschooling parents who are interested in exploring classical Christian texts and educational philosophies. Meet regularly to discuss the books and how the ideas can be practically applied to your homeschooling practices, fostering a collaborative learning environment.
- Create a skill-sharing network within your homeschooling community to leverage diverse expertise. Identify the unique skills and knowledge each parent possesses, such as a background in science, arts, or literature, and set up a system where parents can offer workshops or tutoring sessions in their area of expertise. This not only enriches the educational experience for the children but also strengthens the support system among families.
- Develop a mentorship ...
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