Rick Doblin - MDMA Psychedelic Assisted Therapy | SRS #97
Delve into the fascinating world of psychedelic therapy with Rick Doblin, the renowned advocate and researcher, on the "Shawn Ryan Show." In this episode, Shawn Ryan engages with Rick Doblin's wealth of knowledge, discussing his personal journey with psychedelics and the promise they hold for mental health treatment. With rich insights from his involvement with MAPS, Doblin shares the transformative effects of substances like MDMA, especially for PTSD sufferers, and outlines his vision for a future where these therapies are not only accepted but integrated into our healthcare systems.
As the conversation expands beyond individual healing, the episode delves into Doblin's groundbreaking work in Iceland, where an entire nation could potentially become a model for net-zero trauma. Discover how strategic collaboration with Icelandic officials and the training of therapists are paving the way for large-scale implementation of psychedelic therapy. With the ultimate goal of establishing thousands of treatment centers worldwide, Rick Doblin and advocates like Shawn Ryan make a compelling case for the use of psychedelics not only as medicine but as a means of fostering human connection, joy, and personal growth in the face of a global mental health crisis.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Feb 19, 2024 episode of the Shawn Ryan Show
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1-Page Summary
Rick Doblin's background in psychedelic research and advocacy
Rick Doblin is well-known in the realm of psychedelic research and advocacy, leveraging his personal experiences with substances such as ibogaine, LSD, Harmaline, 5-MeO DMT, and MDMA to inform his work. His background includes pivotal personal experiences with psychedelics that helped him break through ego and self-critical patterns, viewing these substances as transformative and potentially hopeful. With over 130 MDMA and 100 LSD experiences, Doblin ensures his advocacy aligns with deep personal insights.
He founded MAPS, which focuses on developing MDMA as a medicine, particularly for PTSD treatment, and has succeeded in moving this therapy into late-stage clinical trials. With a history of challenging the DEA's rulings on therapeutic use, Doblin is a key figure in the push for careful, responsible psychedelic research, which has achieved remarkable results, such as significant healing for veterans like Tony Macy. Doblin's goal includes creating a nonprofit-supported psychedelic pharmaceutical company to provide affordable and accessible treatments.
Using psychedelic therapy with trauma victims and prisoners in Iceland
Rick Doblin looks to Iceland as a prime candidate to serve as a test case for achieving net-zero trauma using psychedelic therapy. He is actively involved in training therapists in Iceland, integrating these programs within the national health insurance framework. He estimates that these efforts could translate into a fully implemented system within 15 to 30 years and is already preparing some 40 therapists through a comprehensive program.
Recognizing the pivotal role of government support, Doblin has connected with Iceland's Minister of Justice for potential funding of MDMA therapy research, targeting various groups including crime victims and law enforcement. His ambitious plans include studies with prisoners to assess the impact of MDMA therapy on recidivism and promote psychological healing for both victims and offenders. This initiative draws on historical lessons while ensuring continued support after psychedelic experiences, aiming to start pilot studies soon in Iceland.
The global mental health crisis and the potential for psychedelics to help alleviate suffering
Amidst a severe global mental health crisis, Doblin advocates for the legalization and regulation of psychedelics to make them widely accessible and to address the issue more effectively. With the aim to establish thousands of treatment centers and train approximately 25,000 therapists within the next decade, Doblin is preparing for a scalable and insurance-supported rollout of psychedelic therapies.
Psychedelic-assisted therapy, especially MDMA for PTSD, is reaching notable milestones, demonstrating remarkable mental health benefits. Structured treatments that combine therapy and MDMA sessions, along with non-drug therapies, attest to the successful integrative approach embraced by Doblin.
Beyond clinical applications, Doblin—alongside other advocates like Shawn Ryan—envisions a broader use of psychedelics for personal growth, celebration, and joy. Highlighting historic studies and the current commitment to accessible use, there is a clear intention for psychedelics to aid in social reintegration and combat global trauma in an ethical manner, outside of conventional clinical use.
1-Page Summary
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Ibogaine is a psychoactive substance derived from the root bark of the Tabernanthe iboga plant, traditionally used in spiritual and healing ceremonies in parts of Africa. Harmaline is a naturally occurring compound found in plants like Syrian rue, known for its psychedelic and MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor) properties. 5-MeO DMT is a potent psychedelic compound found in various plants and the secretions of certain toads, known for inducing intense, short-lived psychedelic experiences.
- MAPS, the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies, is a nonprofit organization founded in 1986 by Rick Doblin. It focuses on promoting research into the therapeutic potential of psychedelic substances like MDMA, LSD, and psilocybin. MAPS collaborates with regulatory authorities to conduct studies on the safety and efficacy of these substances for various mental health conditions. The organization aims to establish clinics where psychedelic-assisted therapies can be provided alongside other treatments under professional guidance.
- Recidivism is the act of a person repeating undesirable behavior, especially criminal offenses, after experiencing negative consequences or being trained to stop it. It is often used to describe the rate at which former prisoners are rearrested for similar crimes. In the context of criminal justice, recidivism rates are crucial indicators of the effectiveness of rehabilitation and reintegration programs.
- Rick Doblin's advocacy for MDMA therapy for various groups, including crime victims and law enforcement, involves exploring the potential of MDMA-assisted therapy to address trauma and promote healing in these populations. By conducting studies with these groups, the aim is to assess the impact of MDMA therapy on psychological well-being, potentially reducing symptoms of trauma and aiding in rehabilitation efforts. This initiative seeks to provide alternative therapeutic approaches for individuals who have experienced trauma, including those within the criminal justice system, with the goal of promoting mental health and well-being. The use of MDMA therapy in these contexts is part of a broader effort to expand the application of psychedelic-assisted therapies beyond traditional clinical settings to support individuals in diverse circumstances.
- The legalization and regulation of psychedelics for the mental health crisis involves advocating for laws that permit the controlled use of substances like MDMA and LSD for therapeutic purposes. Regulation ensures that these substances are used safely and effectively in clinical settings under specific guidelines. This approach aims to expand access to psychedelic-assisted therapy for conditions like PTSD and depression, potentially offering new treatment options for individuals who have not responded well to traditional therapies. The goal is to establish a framework that allows for the responsible integration of psychedelics into mental health care to address the growing global mental health challenges.
Counterarguments
- Concerns about the long-term effects of psychedelics on mental health, as the research is still ongoing and the full spectrum of potential risks may not be fully understood.
- Skepticism about the scalability of psychedelic therapy, given the current regulatory environment, societal stigma, and the complexity of training a large number of therapists.
- Questions about the cost-effectiveness and practicality of integrating psychedelic therapy into national health insurance frameworks.
- The ethical considerations of administering psychedelics to prisoners, including issues of consent and the potential for coercion.
- The possibility that the enthusiasm for psychedelics may outpace the evidence, leading to premature widespread adoption without sufficient data on safety and efficacy.
- The risk of diversion and misuse of psychedelics if they become more widely available, which could lead to recreational abuse and potential harm.
- The challenge of ensuring equitable access to psychedelic therapies, preventing a situation where only certain populations can benefit from these treatments.
- The potential for cultural and social resistance to the use of psychedelics in mainstream medicine and the impact this may have on the acceptance of such therapies.
- The need for robust regulatory frameworks to manage the use of psychedelics, ensuring that they are used responsibly and safely.
- The importance of considering traditional and alternative forms of therapy that may also be effective for mental health conditions, ensuring a diverse range of treatment options.
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Rick Doblin's background in psychedelic research and advocacy
Rick Doblin's work in psychedelics spans personal experiences and extensive research, infusing his advocacy with a deep understanding of the transformative power of these substances.
Rick's personal experiences with psychedelics like ibogaine, 5-MeO DMT, and MDMA therapy
Doblin has recounted pivotal moments with various psychedelics, such as ibogaine and LSD combined with Harmaline, which have helped him confront his ego and self-critical patterns. He shared an experience in 1985 involving ibogaine, which he describes as one of the most important of his life, helping him approach opponents in his work without seeing himself as all good and others as all bad. Moreover, Doblin has noted the intense ego dissolution brought on by 5-MeO DMT and considers his high-dose experience transformative, providing him with a lasting sense of hope and potential.
Doblin discussed his extensive personal use of psychedelics, mentioning that he has done MDMA around 130 times and LSD over 100 times, with some experiences dating back to around 1985. Trevor Miller introduced Shawn Ryan to ibogaine, and Doblin connected his own experiences with theirs, sharing the personal and professional benefits they gained from it. Shawn Ryan's own transformative experience with ibogaine is also acknowledged, reporting significant life changes following his use.
Psychedelic-assisted therapy for treating PTSD and other mental health conditions
MAPS and the Public Benefit Corporation for developing MDMA as a medicine
Doblin's work in psychedelic-assisted therapy is represented by his involvement with the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), which he founded. MAPS, now in its 37th year, and its Public Benefit Corporation focuses on developing MDMA as a treatment for PTSD and other mental health conditions. They have conducted successful phase three studies with MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, marking a significant step toward FDA approval.
Doblin's background includes winning a lawsuit against the DEA over the therapeutic use of MDMA and continuing legal battles to challenge the DEA's rulings. He details the therapy protocol associated with MDMA treatment ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Rick Doblin's background in psychedelic research and advocacy
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Harmaline is a compound found in certain plants like Syrian rue and ayahuasca. It is known for its effects on the central nervous system, acting as a stimulant and a reversible inhibitor of MAO-A. Harmaline's psychoactive properties and potential interactions with other substances make it a subject of interest in various contexts, including psychedelic experiences and therapeutic research.
- 5-MeO-DMT is a psychedelic compound found in various plant species and secreted by certain toad species. It is known for its intense effects on consciousness, including radical perspective shifts, euphoria, and ego dissolution. The substance has been used traditionally as an entheogen in South America and is distinct from DMT in its effects and duration of experience. It has been studied for its potential therapeutic benefits, including anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects.
- A Public Benefit Corporation is a type of corporate structure that requires the company to consider the impact of its decisions not only on shareholders but also on society and the environment. This structure allows businesses to pursue social and environmental goals alongside financial objectives. Public Benefit Corporations are legally obligated to balance profit-making with benefiting the public or the environment. They are distinct from traditional for-profit corporations in their commitment to social responsibility.
- Phase three studies in the context of drug development typically represent the final stage of clinical trials before seeking regulatory approval. These studies focus on assessing the effectiveness and safety of the drug in a larger population to confirm its benefits and monitor any potential side effects. Successful phase three studies are crucial for demonstrating the drug's efficacy and safety profile, paving the way for regulatory agencies like the FDA to consider approving the drug for public use.
- DEA rulings pertain to decisions made by the Drug Enforcement Administration regarding the legal status and regulation of substances like MDMA. These rulings can impact the availability and use of substances in research and therapeutic contexts. Rick Doblin has been involved in legal battles challenging DEA rulings related to the therapeutic use of MDMA.
- Opiate use typically refers to the consumption of substances derived from opium, such as morphine or heroin, which can have pain-relieving and euphoric effects. In the cont ...
Counterarguments
- While Rick Doblin's personal experiences with psychedelics are extensive, personal anecdotes do not equate to scientific evidence and may not be generalizable to the broader population.
- The transformative experiences reported by individuals like Doblin and Shawn Ryan are subjective and may not reflect the potential risks or lack of efficacy for others.
- The use of psychedelics, even in a therapeutic context, carries risks, including potential adverse psychological effects, which may not be adequately represented in the text.
- The successful phase three studies conducted by MAPS are promising, but further research is needed to fully understand the long-term effects and safety of MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD.
- Winning a lawsuit against the DEA over the therapeutic use of MDMA is a legal victory but does not in itself validate the medical use of MDMA; regulatory approval and consensus in the medical community are also necessary.
- The emphasis on proper integration and the acknowledgment that not everyone benefits from psychedelic therapy are important, but the text may not fully address the complexities and challenges of ensuring that therapy is delivered safely and effectively to all patients.
- The story of Tony Macy's profound healing through MDMA therapy is e ...
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Using psychedelic therapy with trauma victims and prisoners in Iceland
Rick Doblin introduces an initiative to use psychedelic therapy to aid in healing trauma victims, including prisoners, in Iceland. This pioneering work could potentially set a precedent for global approaches to managing trauma.
Rick's plan to make Iceland a test case for achieving net-zero trauma
Doblin's ambitious long-term goal is a world of net-zero trauma by 2070, with a focus on healing through psychedelics and contemplating how to scale this approach globally. He sees Iceland as a potential test case for this goal.
Training therapists and gaining government support
To facilitate this, therapist training programs are underway. Doblin points out the shortage of psychedelic therapists in Iceland and the need for their training to be embedded within the national health insurance system. He anticipates that this could be achieved in the next 15 to 30 years.
Doblin details an upcoming training program for Icelandic therapists, designed to prepare them for studies in MDMA therapy. This program includes 100 hours of initial training, partially online, and partly in-person. Approximately 40 therapists are being trained, some of whom may engage in compassionate use of MDMA outside of research studies.
Government backing is an integral part of introducing this therapeutic approach. Doblin states that he has met with the Minister of Justice and his deputy, both of whom have expressed interest in funding research on MDMA therapy across different groups—victims of crime, prisoners, prison guards, and police officers.
Conducting studies with prisoners and victims of crime
Doblin plans to conduct studies in Iceland with a focus on individuals from various traumatized groups to see whether MDMA therapy can reduce recidivi ...
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Using psychedelic therapy with trauma victims and prisoners in Iceland
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- "Net-zero trauma by 2070" is a goal set by Rick Doblin to minimize the impact of trauma globally. The aim is to reduce the overall burden of trauma through effective therapeutic interventions like psychedelic therapy. The term "net-zero" implies achieving a balance where the negative effects of trauma are counteracted by healing and support mechanisms. Doblin envisions a future where trauma is effectively addressed and minimized by the year 2070.
- Psychedelic therapist training programs aim to educate professionals on administering therapy using substances like MDMA. These programs typically cover theoretical knowledge, practical skills, and ethical considerations in psychedelic-assisted therapy. Training is crucial to ensure therapists can provide safe and effective support to individuals undergoing psychedelic experiences. The goal is to equip therapists with the necessary tools to guide patients through transformative experiences while prioritizing their well-being.
- Compassionate use of MDMA involves providing a controlled and supervised access to MDMA-assisted therapy for individuals who are not part of formal research studies but have a serious or life-threatening condition for which there are no satisfactory treatment options available. This approach allows patients to benefit from the therapy under specific circumstances, typically when traditional treatments have been ineffective. It is a way to offer experimental treatments to those in urgent need while still ensuring safety and monitoring of the therapy's effects. Compassionate use programs are designed to balance the potential risks and benefits for individual patients in exceptional cases.
- Timothy Leary's Concord Prison Experiment was a study conducted in the early 1960s at the Concord State Prison in Massachusetts, USA. The experiment aimed to explore the effects of psilocybin-assisted therapy on recidivism rates among inmates. Despite initial positive reports, the study faced criticism for methodological flaws and ethical concerns. Leary's work at Concord contributed to the growing interest in psychedelic therapy but also highlighted the complexities and controversies surrounding its use in a prison setting.
- Recidivism is the act of a person repeat ...
Counterarguments
- The long-term goal of achieving net-zero trauma by 2070 may be overly optimistic, considering the complexity of trauma and its various causes.
- While Iceland may serve as a test case, its unique social, economic, and cultural context might limit the generalizability of the findings to other countries.
- The shortage of trained psychedelic therapists could be a significant barrier to the widespread adoption of this therapy, even with training programs in place.
- Embedding psychedelic therapy within the national health insurance system could face bureaucratic and regulatory challenges that extend beyond the scope of therapist training.
- The compassionate use of MDMA outside of research studies raises ethical and legal concerns that need to be carefully managed.
- Government support, while essential, may fluctuate with political changes, potentially affecting the continuity and funding of the research.
- The impact of MDMA therapy on recidivism and aiding trauma victims requires rigorous, long-term studies to validate its effectiveness.
- The assumption that processing trauma can lead to more humane prison guards and less violent prisoners may not account for other influential factors in the prison environment.
- Drawing inspiration from Timothy Leary's Concord Prison Experiment may be controv ...
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The global mental health crisis and the potential for psychedelics to help alleviate suffering
The global mental health crisis is an urgent issue, and there is a growing interest in the potential of psychedelics to help alleviate suffering.
Legalizing and regulating psychedelics to make them more accessible
Rick Doblin underscores that to address the mental health crisis effectively, psychedelics must be legalized and regulated to ensure accessibility for those in need. The high number of PTSD patients and others suffering from depression and addiction indicates the critical importance of making psychedelic therapies available. Doblin’s advocacy for the legalization and regulation of psychedelics is primarily motivated by the vision of people accessing pure, uncontaminated substances, reducing the risk of overdoses from impure drugs.
Establishing psychedelic treatment centers and training therapists
The effort to alleviate the mental health crisis includes the establishment of thousands of psychedelic treatment centers and the training of clinicians. Doblin outlines a plan to medicalize psychedelics and to train approximately 25,000 therapists in the next decade. The envisaged process involves practical training sessions for therapists, including the option to voluntarily experience MDMA to enhance personal understanding of what they will administer to patients. The goal also includes having insurance cover these therapies, indicating positive responses from insurance companies.
Achieving mental health benefits through psychedelic-assisted therapy
Psychedelic-assisted therapy, particularly MDMA for PTSD, is gaining momentum as a promising mental health tool. The discussion highlights individuals' beneficial outcomes following such therapies, with anecdotes indicating profound improvements in well-being and alleviation of anxiety. Doblin’s detailed description of an integrative approach to treating PTSD, including several hours of therapy combined with MDMA sessions and subsequent non-drug therapies, demonstrates a structured and promising pathway to mental health benefits. Plans to expand these approaches, aiming to treat millions with therapy by 2032, show a determined approa ...
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The global mental health crisis and the potential for psychedelics to help alleviate suffering
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Rick Doblin is the founder and executive director of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies (MAPS), a non-profit organization dedicated to researching the therapeutic potential of psychedelics. He has been a key figure in advocating for the legalization and regulation of psychedelics for therapeutic use. Doblin's work focuses on promoting psychedelic-assisted therapy, particularly for conditions like PTSD, depression, and addiction. His efforts include training therapists and establishing treatment centers to expand access to psychedelic therapies.
- Psychedelic-assisted therapy involves using substances like MDMA in conjunction with therapy sessions to address mental health issues. MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD typically includes a few preparatory sessions, an all-day therapy session with the MDMA experience, and follow-up integration sessions to process the experience. The therapy aims to help individuals process traumatic memories in a safe and supported environment, leading to reduced symptoms of PTSD and improved mental well-being. Studies have shown promising results in using MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD, with many participants reporting significant improvements in their symptoms and quality of life.
- The Concord Prison Experiment was a study conducted in the early 1960s by psychologist Timothy Leary and his colleagues. It aimed to explore the potential of psilocybin-assisted therapy in reducing recidivism rates among inmates. The study suggested that psychedelic experiences could lead to positive behavioral changes and increased empathy, potentially aiding in rehabilitation efforts. However, the methodology and ethi ...
Counterarguments
- Legalizing and regulating psychedelics could lead to increased recreational use and potential abuse.
- The long-term effects of psychedelic use are not fully understood, and there may be unforeseen negative consequences.
- Psychedelic experiences are highly variable and may not be beneficial for all individuals, potentially exacerbating mental health issues in some cases.
- The training and regulation of therapists in psychedelic-assisted therapy are complex and may not be standardized easily, leading to inconsistent treatment quality.
- Insurance coverage for psychedelic therapies may increase the cost of healthcare premiums and could be controversial among policyholders.
- The emphasis on psychedelics may divert attention and resources from other evidence-based treatments for mental health conditions.
- The potential for psychedelics to be used for personal growth and celebration may trivialize their serious medical applications and risks.
- Historical studies, such as the Concord Prison Experiment, have metho ...
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