Podcasts > Rotten Mango > #393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

By Stephanie Soo & Ramble

This episode delves into the disturbing case of Carly, a young woman accused of murdering her mother and stepfather. The discussion centers on Carly's mental state and the insanity defense, weighing the arguments that her actions were driven by psychosis and uncontrolled mental illness or were calculated and premeditated.

The summary explores the grim evidence and crime details, including chilling video footage and Carly's bizarre courtroom behavior, which some view as manipulative. Different theories surrounding Carly's motivations and her relationship with her stepfather are examined, leaving listeners to contemplate the complexities of this harrowing case.

#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

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#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

1-Page Summary

Carly's Mental State and the Insanity Defense

In the case of Carly, the defense argues she was experiencing a psychotic break due to mental health issues like depression, anxiety, and potential bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. They claim medication exacerbated her symptoms, leading to a state where she blacked out and could not control her actions. The prosecution disputes this, arguing Carly's actions were calculated and showed awareness.

The Evidence and Crime Details

Stephanie Soo narrates chilling hidden camera footage showing Carly's calm movements before shooting her mother. Text messages lured her stepfather Heath to the scene, where he was shot. His 911 call describes finding his wife's body and being attacked by Carly. Evidence like gunshot residue on Carly's hands further incriminates her.

Carly's Courtroom Behavior and Appearance

Carly's bizarre courtroom behavior, including smirking, giggling, and odd facial expressions, is seen as strange and manipulative by observers. Her emotional displays like crying are criticized as insincere. The defense dresses Carly in a youthful, "doll-like" style, accused of trying to make her appear innocent.

Theories on Carly's Motivations

Many struggle to reconcile Carly's high intelligence and young age with the brutal crime. Some see her as a tragic figure impacted by mental illness, while others view her as calculating and manipulative. Heath's support for Carly generates debate over their relationship's nature and his potential trauma bonding or manipulation. Theories range from an inappropriate relationship to Heath being another of Carly's victims.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • A psychotic break is a term used to describe a severe mental health episode where an individual loses touch with reality. During a psychotic break, a person may experience hallucinations, delusions, and disorganized thinking. This state can lead to unpredictable behavior and a lack of awareness of one's actions. Treatment often involves medication and therapy to stabilize the individual's mental state.
  • Trauma bonding is an emotional connection that forms between an abuser and a victim due to a cycle of abuse, characterized by a power imbalance and intermittent reinforcement of both positive and negative behaviors. This bond can occur in various relationships and environments, leading to conflicting emotions and a lack of individual identity for the victim. It is based on fear, control, and unpredictability, often resulting in significant harm to the victim's well-being.
  • Manipulation in the context of mental health issues can involve individuals using their symptoms or conditions to influence others or situations for personal gain or to avoid responsibility. This behavior can manifest as feigning symptoms, exaggerating illness severity, or using emotional displays to manipulate perceptions. It can be complex to discern genuine struggles from manipulative actions, especially in legal cases where mental health is a factor. Understanding the nuances of manipulation in this context requires careful consideration of the individual's history, behaviors, and motivations.
  • Gunshot residue (GSR) is the residue left behind after a gun is fired, composed of particles from the explosive primer, gunpowder, and other components. Law enforcement collects GSR using swabs, adhesives, and vacuums to analyze if someone has recently fired a gun or been in close proximity to a discharged firearm. Presumptive tests like the modified Griess test are used to initially detect GSR, with confirmatory testing done through techniques like Scanning Electron Microscopy. Organic GSR (OGSR) contains organic compounds like nitroglycerine, which can be identified through specialized testing methods.
  • Carly's courtroom behavior, characterized by smirking, giggling, and odd facial expressions, has been viewed as strange and manipulative by observers. Her emotional displays, such as crying, have been criticized as insincere. The defense's choice to dress Carly in a youthful, "doll-like" style has been seen as an attempt to portray her as innocent. These behaviors and appearances have sparked debate and differing interpretations among those following the case.
  • Carly's defense team dressed her in a youthful, "doll-like" style to evoke innocence and vulnerability, aiming to sway perceptions of her demeanor and character in court. This strategic choice in appearance was intended to create a contrast between her physical presentation and the severity of the crimes she is accused of committing. The defense may have believed that presenting Carly in this manner could potentially influence how the jury and observers perceive her mental state and culpability. The defense's decision to style Carly in a specific way reflects a calculated effort to shape the narrative surrounding her actions and mental state during the trial.
  • Reconciling high intelligence with criminal behavior can be perplexing as it challenges common stereotypes. Intelligence does not immunize individuals from mental health issues or criminal actions; complex factors like mental illness, trauma, or personal circumstances can influence behavior. Understanding that intelligence alone does not dictate moral choices is crucial when examining individuals who exhibit both high cognitive abilities and involvement in criminal activities.

Counterarguments

  • Carly's calm movements on camera could be a result of her mental state rather than calculated behavior, as some individuals in a psychotic state can appear outwardly calm despite internal turmoil.
  • The presence of gunshot residue on Carly's hands does not necessarily prove intent or a lack of a psychotic episode; it only establishes that she discharged a firearm.
  • Carly's courtroom behavior might be misinterpreted; what appears as smirking or giggling could be nervous reactions or involuntary responses due to her mental health condition.
  • Emotional displays in court, such as crying, could be genuine and a result of the overwhelming situation rather than insincerity.
  • Dressing Carly in a youthful, "doll-like" style could be a legitimate strategy to remind the jury of her age and potential vulnerability, not necessarily a manipulative tactic.
  • High intelligence does not preclude the possibility of severe mental illness, and it is possible for a person to be both intelligent and suffer from a mental health disorder that could influence their behavior.
  • Heath's support for Carly could stem from a genuine belief in her mental health issues and his understanding of her condition, rather than trauma bonding or manipulation.
  • The nature of Carly's relationship with Heath and the theories surrounding it require careful consideration of evidence and should not be subject to speculation without factual support.

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#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

Carly's mental state and the insanity defense

The case of Carly is dissected as her defense team presents an insanity defense while the prosecution argues her actions were deliberate with an awareness of her conduct.

The defense argues Carly was experiencing a psychotic break and was not mentally sound at the time of the crime

The defense portrays Carly as a young girl overwhelmed by significant mental health issues, including depression, anxiety, and potential bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and not fully responsible for her mother’s murder. They assert that she was compliant with her medication, but the medication actually exacerbated her symptoms. During a state of acute stress, Carly supposedly experienced a state of psychosis, and the defense describes this as a 'perfect storm' where she blacked out and could not control her actions. Carly was diagnosed after the murder with bipolar two and reported having auditory hallucinations throughout her life. She had previously seen a therapist occasionally for depression but had never mentioned hearing voices until after the murder.

The defense also suggests that Carly's father's mental health condition and her family history implied a higher risk of schizophrenia, although no diagnosis was found for him. They argue that variations in her medication led to a psychotic break, mentioning that she was initially on [restricted term], which made her feel like a zombie, and then was switched to [restricted term].

In addition, the defense produces journal entries where Carly questions her mental state, even asking, "Do I have schizophrenia?" and they mention her self-medicating with weed, which was purported to be volatile for her mental health.

The prosecution disputes the insanity defense, arguing Carly's actions were calculated and showed awareness

The prosecution challenges the insanity defense by showing evidence of Carly's calculated behavior. They indicate that Carly intentionally retrieved a gun and texted her stepfather, actions which seem to bear the markings of planning and awareness. They also argue that in situations like the body cam footage, where Carly is able to confirm the type of weapon used and inquire about her stepfather, she demonstrates awareness and memory of the event.

The prosecutors argue that Carly's blackout seemed conveniently timed just before the murder and yet she was able to use her mother's phone code and text her stepfather, a contradiction suggesting an awareness of her actions. They affirm Carly had mental health problems such as anxiety ...

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Carly's mental state and the insanity defense

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The legal threshold for an insanity defense typically involves proving that at the time of the crime, the defendant was so mentally impaired that they could not understand the nature or consequences of their actions, or that they could not distinguish right from wrong. This defense is not about the defendant's general mental health issues but specifically about their mental state at the time of the offense. Meeting this threshold varies by jurisdiction but generally requires a high standard of proof to successfully argue that the defendant should not be held criminally responsible due to their mental state.
  • Stephanie Soo is a popular YouTuber known for her content on true crime and mystery. In this context, she provides a contrasting perspective on Carly's case, questioning the validity of Carly's defense claims based on her analysis of Carly's journal entries and behavior. Soo's skepticism challenges the narrative presented by Carly's defense team regarding her mental state and the circumstances surrounding the crime.
  • Expert witnesses in court proceedings are individuals with specialized knowledge or expertise in a particular field relevant to the case. They are called upon to p ...

Counterarguments

  • The defense's argument that Carly was experiencing a psychotic break may not fully account for her ability to perform complex actions, such as using a phone code and sending a text message, which could indicate a level of awareness and intent.
  • Family history of mental illness is not a definitive predictor of individual behavior, and without a diagnosis for Carly's father, this point may not strongly support the defense's argument.
  • The effect of medication on mental health can be complex, and while the defense suggests that the switch from [restricted term] to [restricted term] led to a psychotic break, this claim may require more substantial medical evidence to be persuasive.
  • Self-medication with substances like weed can complicate mental health conditions, but it does not necessarily prove or disprove the presence of a psychotic break at the time of the crime.
  • Journal entries can be interpreted in various ways, and while they may show Carly questioning her mental state, they do not conclusively prove her mental state at the time of the crime.
  • The prosecution's argument that Carly's actions were calculated could be challenged by the complexity of mental health disorders, where individuals may exhibit planning and forethought even during a psychotic episode.
  • The timing of Carly's blackout could be coincidental rather than convenient, and without further context, it may not be fair to assume it was contrived.
  • Stephanie Soo's skepticism based on Carly's intelligent demeanor and complex journal entries may not ...

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#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

The evidence and details of the crime

Stephanie Soo narrates a chilling incident that culminates in the murder of a mother as related evidence unfolds in court.

The hidden camera footage captures Carly's actions before and after the shooting

Soo describes how the hidden camera footage reveals Carly's calculated movements on the day of the crime. Carly is shown entering the home quietly, with the footage capturing her release of the family's two golden retrievers and careful walk through the kitchen. She stealthily checks the living room and moves with something concealed behind her back, believed to be a gun. Moments later, the camera picks up the sound of a gunshot, followed by two more rounds. Carly then reappears, her calm demeanor intact as she places the gun out of the camera's sight on the counter. The camera, which is normally mounted on a high shelf in the kitchen, is discovered behind stacks of water bottles in the refrigerator, suggesting someone had tried to hide it.

Other evidence, including Carly's text messages and the 911 call, further incriminates her

The call and the texts

Further evidence against Carly emerges as her text messages and a 911 call are presented in court. Carly had sent texts to her stepfather, Heath, luring him back to the home where she then fired shots at him. Heath's distress is palpable in the 911 call that was played during the trial, where he exclaims in agony upon finding his wife Ashley's body and describes being shot by his stepdaughter Carly.

Heath Smiley, overwhelmed with emotion, tells the operator, "She killed her, she killed her mom, she's dead on the floor of my daughter's stepdaughter's room." When the dispatched officer arrives, Heath is fou ...

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The evidence and details of the crime

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Carly is the stepdaughter of Heath and the daughter of Ashley. Heath is Carly's stepfather and Ashley is Carly's mother. The relationship dynamics involve a complex family structure where Carly's actions have led to tragic consequences within the family unit.
  • Swabbing Carly's hands for gunshot residue is a standard forensic procedure to detect particles left behind when a firearm is discharged. This test helps determine if a person has recently fired a gun. Finding gunshot residue on Carly's han ...

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#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

Carly's behavior and demeanor during the trial

Carly’s courtroom behavior and appearance have attracted attention and criticism throughout the trial, with many seeing her actions as strange and her presentation as an attempt at manipulation.

Carly's courtroom behavior is seen by many as strange and manipulative

Carly is described as smirking, giggling, and making odd facial expressions at inappropriate times

During the trial, Carly’s behavior has been called into question by many. Observers have described her as smirking, giggling, and making odd facial expressions at times that seemed inappropriate. For example, Stephanie Soo noted that Carly exhibited a full smirk when discussing her Harry Potter obsession with villains. In a particularly stark interaction, when Heath was asked to identify the person who shot at him, they both smiled at each other as he pointed to Carly.

Interestingly, Carly appeared remarkably calm when she emerged from the storm drain after the crime, a demeanor that contrasts greatly with the heightened emotions she displayed during the trial.

Her emotional displays, such as crying, are criticized as forced and insincere by observers

Carly was highly emotional during the trial, especially when hearing Heath’s 911 call. Observers, however, criticized these emotional displays, characterizing Carly’s crying as insincere. For instance, she only cried when called a victim and when her defense attorneys emphasized her closeness with her mother, prompting some to view these tears as forced. Observers noted her crying at seemingly random times, such as when an unrelated witness was being sworn in, which further fueled skepticism about her sincerity.

Carly's appearance and presentation in court also draws scrutiny

The defense is accused of dressing Carly in a way to make her appear younger and more innocent

Carly’s attire was a point of concern for many. Her polished, "doll-like" appearance, marked by plaid dresses, collared dress shirts, cardigans with gold buttons, and frilly sleeves, was notably different from her attire at the time of her arrest. The defense's choice of clothing le ...

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Carly's behavior and demeanor during the trial

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The movie "Orphan" is a psychological thriller that revolves around a couple who adopts a 9-year-old girl named Esther. As the story unfolds, dark secrets about Esther's past and true nature are revealed, leading to a series of disturbing events. The reference to the movie in the text suggests that observers saw similarities between Carly's appearance and behavior in court and the unsettling character from the film, implying a connection to deception or hidden motives.
  • The "Catholic school girl" look typically involves clothing items like plaid skirts, c ...

Counterarguments

  • Carly's behavior might be a result of nervousness or anxiety rather than an attempt at manipulation.
  • Facial expressions like smirking or giggling could be involuntary reactions to stress or a nervous tic, not necessarily indicative of her character or guilt.
  • Remaining calm in a stressful situation like emerging from a storm drain could be a sign of shock or a coping mechanism.
  • Emotional responses in court can be unpredictable and may not always align with public expectations; crying at seemingly random times could be due to the overall stress of the trial.
  • The defense's choice of attire for Carly could be a standard legal strategy to present t ...

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#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

Theories and debates around Carly's motivations and culpability

There are numerous theories and debates about Carly's motivations and culpability in the brutal crime she committed, largely colored by perceptions of her intelligence, young age, and the complexity of her family dynamics.

Many struggle to reconcile Carly's young age and high intelligence with the brutality of the crime

Friends of Carly, such as Jason and Jenny, noticed a shift in her behavior, which included smuggling knives and cheating on exams—actions that were out of character, leading them to plan an intervention. Despite her high ACT scores and intelligent background, Carly’s behavior was erratic and risky. The state’s expert psychiatrist saw her anger towards her friends and desire to appear a certain way as elements of personality rather than psychosis. Carly’s own writings suggest a deep fascination with complex criminal concepts and various forms of manipulation. On the defensive side, Carly’s mental health issues and her biological father’s bipolar disorder are suggested as extenuating circumstances.

Some see Carly as a tragic figure, a victim of her own mental health issues and family dysfunction

There are viewpoints that pin Carly's actions on undiagnosed and untreated mental illnesses, such as bipolar disorder, exacerbated by medication. These perspectives view her as a tragic figure, overwhelmed by her own psychological challenges and family dysfunction.

Others view her as a calculating, manipulative individual who knew exactly what she was doing

Conversely, some label Carly as a highly intelligent and fully aware individual capable of premeditated behavior, potentially dismissing the notion that mental illness significantly influenced her actions.

The role of Carly's stepfather, Heath, generates significant debate

Heath Smiley's behavior during and after the crime has generated significant debate. There are contrasting views on his level of complicity in the crime, the nature of his relationship with Carly, and the possible psychological effects he may have experienced.

Some believe Heath may have been involved or complicit in the crime, while others see his support for Carly as a sign of his own psychological trauma

Heath’s lethargic and emotionless testimony sparked controversy, with possible explanations ranging from the raw nature of the events to a response to medication ...

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Theories and debates around Carly's motivations and culpability

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Carly's relationship with her friends Jason and Jenny was characterized by their observations of her changing behavior, including actions like smuggling knives and academic dishonesty. They noticed a shift in her demeanor, leading them to plan an intervention due to these out-of-character behaviors. Their concerns stemmed from Carly's erratic and risky conduct, which contrasted with her high intelligence and academic achievements. These observations raised questions about the underlying reasons for Carly's behavior and her relationships with those closest to her.
  • Carly's mental health issues, including undiagnosed and untreated bipolar disorder, are suggested to have played a role in her actions. Some perspectives view her struggles with mental illness as a contributing factor to the crime she committed. These viewpoints suggest that her psychological challenges, exacerbated by medication, may have influenced her behavior and decision-making. The debate surrounding Carly's mental health involves discussions on how her untreated conditions could have impacted her motivations and culpability in the crime.
  • Carly's family dynamics are complex due to her biological father's bipolar disorder, which is suggested as a factor influencing her behavior. The presence of mental health issues in her family background adds a layer of complexity to understanding Carly's actions. Her relationship with her biological father and how his condition may have impacted her upbringing and mental state are significant factors in the discussions surrounding her motivations and culpability. These family dynamics contribute to the various perspectives on Carly's behavior, with some attributing her actions to her family environment and genetic predispositions.
  • Carly's high ACT scores are mentioned to highlight her academic intelligence and contrast it with her erratic behavior, suggesting a disconnect between her intellectual capabilities and her actions. The mention of her ACT scores serves to emphasize the complexity of Carly's character, as it raises questions about how someone academically gifted could engage in risky and out-of-character behavior. It underscores the multidimensional nature of Carly's personality, hinting at the internal conflicts and complexities that may have influenced her actions. The reference to Carly's ACT scores adds depth to the discussion by showcasing a facet of her life that seemingly contradicts the behaviors she exhibited leading up to the crime.
  • Heath Smiley's behavior during and after the crime has sparked debate due to his lethargic and emotionless testimony, which some attribute to various factors like the raw nature of the events or potential psychological effects. There are contrasting views ...

Counterarguments

  • Carly's high intelligence could imply a greater awareness of the consequences of her actions, challenging the view that her youth and intelligence are at odds with the crime's brutality.
  • A fascination with criminal concepts in writings does not necessarily correlate with a propensity to commit a crime; it could be a sign of intellectual curiosity rather than a predictor of behavior.
  • The presence of mental health issues or a family history of such does not automatically diminish personal responsibility or culpability in a crime.
  • Viewing Carly as a tragic figure may overlook the agency and choices involved in her actions, potentially minimizing the severity of the crime.
  • The perception of Carly as calculating and manipulative could be influenced by societal biases against individuals with mental health issues, assuming malice where there may be illness.
  • Heath Smiley's behavior could be interpreted through various lenses, and without concrete evidence, it is speculative to assert his complicity or the ...

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