Podcasts > Rotten Mango > #385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

#385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

By Stephanie Soo & Ramble

In this episode of Rotten Mango, the podcast examines the tragic death of baby Mirabelle and the legal case surrounding her mother, Kai Yang. Yang, who has a severe seizure disorder, was accused of intentionally placing Mirabelle in a microwave, causing fatal burns.

The episode delves into the forensic evidence against Yang, including witness accounts of her seizures and the specific actions required to cause Mirabelle's injuries. It explores potential psychological factors, such as postpartum depression or psychosis, as well as Yang's cultural beliefs and their potential role in the case. Additionally, the legal proceedings, appeals, and the ongoing debate over whether Yang's epilepsy or intentional harm was responsible are discussed.

#385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

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#385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

1-Page Summary

Kai Yang's Medical History and Seizure Disorder

Kai Yang has battled a severe seizure disorder since her teenage years, experiencing around 100 seizures over 15 years, ranging from complete unconsciousness to disoriented states with memory lapses. Witnesses describe her seizures leaving her unable to perform complex activities. Kai's family notes she typically requires assistance and supervision to recover after seizures, contrasting with her alertness the day of Mirabelle's death.

The Forensic Evidence Around Mirabelle's Death

Baby Mirabelle sustained severe internal and external burns consistent with being placed in a microwave for 2-5 minutes. Her body exhibited deep tissue burns reaching the bone, and a pacifier was found inside the microwave, suggesting intentional placement. Experts testified that the precise sequence of actions required to cause Mirabelle's injuries is highly improbable during a seizure, given the short timeline when Kai Yang was alone with her.

Potential Psychological/Mental Health Factors

The prosecution argued Kai Yang may have had undiagnosed postpartum depression or psychosis, noting her involvement of a priest and discussing spirits could be linked to her Hmong cultural beliefs. However, the defense contested the lack of evidence for clear postpartum psychosis symptoms. Yang reported experiencing auditory hallucinations and a sense of "spirits" around Mirabelle's death, which the defense attributed to her cultural understanding of seizures.

Initially, Kai Yang was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to 25 years despite her defense team arguing her epilepsy was the primary factor. On appeal, her conviction was reversed due to concerns over an unfair trial and insufficient evidence supporting the prosecution's theories. The case awaits a potential retrial as the defense continues arguing Yang's actions resulted from her epilepsy, not intentional harm.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Kai Yang's defense argues that her seizures could have led to confusion or disorientation, potentially impacting her actions during the time of Mirabelle's death. The defense suggests that the nature of Kai's seizures, which vary in intensity and duration, could have influenced her behavior in a way that might explain the tragic events. This argument aims to establish a link between Kai's medical condition and the circumstances surrounding the death of Mirabelle. The defense contends that the effects of Kai's seizures could have played a role in the events that transpired, emphasizing the need to consider her medical history in understanding the situation.
  • Kai Yang's Hmong cultural beliefs include a strong spiritual component, where spirits and supernatural forces are integral to their worldview. In Hmong culture, seizures are often interpreted as a spiritual experience rather than solely a medical condition. This cultural perspective may influence how Kai Yang perceives and explains her seizures, including attributing auditory hallucinations and feelings of spirits to her condition. Understanding these cultural beliefs is crucial in comprehending Kai Yang's reported experiences surrounding Mirabelle's death.
  • During the legal proceedings, Kai Yang was initially convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to 25 years. However, her conviction was later reversed on appeal due to concerns over an unfair trial and insufficient evidence supporting the prosecution's theories. The case is now awaiting a potential retrial as the defense continues to argue that Yang's actions were a result of her epilepsy, not intentional harm.

Counterarguments

  • The severity and frequency of Kai Yang's seizures, while documented, do not conclusively prove that she could not have intentionally harmed Mirabelle, as seizure manifestations can vary widely among individuals.
  • While witnesses describe Kai as unable to perform complex activities during seizures, this does not account for the full spectrum of her cognitive and physical abilities at all times, particularly if her seizure had subsided.
  • The need for assistance and supervision post-seizure does not preclude the possibility of moments of lucidity or capability where complex actions could be performed.
  • The expert testimony regarding the improbability of Kai Yang performing the sequence of actions to harm Mirabelle during a seizure is based on general knowledge of seizures but may not account for atypical seizure presentations or actions taken between seizures.
  • The possibility of undiagnosed postpartum depression or psychosis introduces a psychological dimension that could influence behavior, but without a diagnosis, it remains speculative and cannot be used definitively to explain or excuse the actions taken.
  • The defense's contestation of the lack of evidence for clear postpartum psychosis symptoms does not eliminate the potential for other undiagnosed mental health issues that could have influenced Kai Yang's behavior.
  • Yang's reports of auditory hallucinations and a sense of "spirits" could be interpreted within a cultural context, but they could also indicate a psychological or neurological condition that has not been adequately explored or diagnosed.
  • The reversal of Kai Yang's conviction on appeal points to procedural issues in the trial but does not inherently validate the defense's argument that epilepsy was the primary factor in Mirabelle's death.
  • The ongoing legal proceedings and the potential for a retrial underscore the complexity of the case and the difficulty in establishing the intent and capability of an individual with a seizure disorder in a criminal context.

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#385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

Kai Yang's medical history and seizure disorder

Kai Yang has struggled with a severe seizure disorder since she was around 13 or 14 years old, enduring approximately 100 seizures over 15 years. Her condition has been characterized by episodes ranging from complete unconsciousness and convulsions to disoriented, hazy states with memory lapses.

Kai Yang has suffered from severe epileptic seizures since the age of 13 or 14, often experiencing around 100 seizures over the past 15 years.

After her first seizure at her uncle's house, which was traumatic, Kai Yang was diagnosed with epilepsy. In the years following, she suffered an average of six to seven seizures a year, requiring medication that was not entirely effective. Witnesses report that during her seizures, Kai could not perform activities requiring significant coordination, such as driving or working on a computer. After a seizure, she would enter a postictal or haze phase, taking about 30 minutes to "reboot her brain," during which she typically could not form active memories.

Kai Yang's seizures range in severity, with some causing her to become completely unconscious and convulse, while others leave her in a disoriented, hazy state without full memory of what occurred.

Kai Yang’s seizures have been described as varying in intensity. Experts note that, while it's possible for someone experiencing a partial complex seizure to operate a microwave, such an instance would be exceedingly rare. During less severe episodes, known as "fast seizures," she might remain partially conscious, whereas more intense tonic-clonic seizures would lead to a postictal state—a hazy period where complex actions like typing an email or operating a microwave are highly improbable.

Kai Yang's family and friends describe her seizures as debilitating, requiring assistance and supervision to recover, in contrast with her alertness and responsiveness when authorities arrived the day of Mirabelle's death.

Family and friends attest to Kai’s debilitating seizures and subsequent confusion. They have observed that, usually post-seizure, Kai Yang requires assistance and exhibits low energy and disorientation, with the recovery period lasting several hours to regain full cognition. In contrast, following the tragic incident with her daughter Mirabelle, first responders and her brother-in-law, Va, noted Kai's untypical alertness and responsiveness—they did not observe her in her usual post-seizure dazed state, raising questions about her actions.

Kai Yang's history of seizures and her fa ...

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Kai Yang's medical history and seizure disorder

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Counterarguments

  • The frequency and severity of Kai Yang's seizures, while documented, may not be consistent and could vary significantly, making it difficult to predict her behavior or capabilities during or after an episode.
  • The ability to perform certain tasks during a seizure can differ from person to person, and some individuals with epilepsy might retain more function than others, challenging the assertion that Kai could not perform activities requiring significant coordination.
  • The duration and symptoms of the postictal phase can be highly variable among individuals with epilepsy, and not all individuals require a significant amount of time to "reboot their brain."
  • The description of Kai Yang's seizures and their intensity is based on witness accounts, which can be subjective and may not accurately represent the medical nature of her condition.
  • The contrast between Kai Yang's usual post-seizure behavior and her state when authorities arrived could be due to a variety of factors, including different types of seizures or the influence of stress and adrenaline.
  • The family and friends' descriptions of Kai's post-seizure state are anecdotal and may not be medically accurate; they could be influenced by their emotional connection to Kai and the situation.
  • The defense's argument that Kai's actions were the result of a seizure ...

Actionables

  • You can educate yourself on seizure first aid to be prepared to help someone experiencing a seizure. Start by learning the common signs of a seizure, such as confusion, convulsions, or a lack of response. Familiarize yourself with the steps to take, like cushioning the person's head, timing the seizure, and staying with them until they are fully conscious. Practice these steps with a friend or family member to build confidence in your ability to assist in an emergency.
  • Develop a personalized seizure action plan if you or someone you know has a seizure disorder. This plan should include detailed information about the types of seizures experienced, medications taken, and emergency contacts. Share this plan with close friends, family, and colleagues so they know how to respond appropriately during and after a seizure.
  • Create a wearable I ...

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#385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

The forensic evidence and circumstances around Mirabelle's death

The tragic death of baby Mirabelle reveals harrowing and complex forensic evidence that contradicts Kai Yang's initial account and suggests a dark and deliberate act.

The baby Mirabelle sustained severe internal and external thermal burns consistent with being placed in a microwave for an extended period, estimated around 2-5 minutes.

The nature and extent of Mirabelle's injuries

Baby Mirabelle's body exhibited severe burns, with over 80% of her body covered in external thermal injuries, and approximately 56% exhibiting second and third-degree burns. However, she also had deep tissue and fourth-degree radiation burns—reaching down to the bone, which are not typical of contact with fire or acid. These injuries were so extensive they damaged her internal organs, indicating that they were the result of being cooked from the inside out. This method of injury is specific and has been seen in other cases involving infants microwaved.

Investigators found a pacifier inside the microwave

While examining the scene, investigators found a purple pacifier inside the microwave, which along with the nature of the injuries, suggested intentional placement rather than accidental exposure. Notably, Mirabelle's hair and clothes were not as burned as her body, which is inconsistent with injuries from a space heater. The thermal burns Mirabelle had were unusual, similar only to a few other cases in the country linked to microwave burns.

The timeline of events, with Kai Yang being left alone with Mirabelle for only 11 minutes, makes it highly improbable that Kai Yang's seizure alone could account for Mirabelle's death in the microwave.

Exper ...

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The forensic evidence and circumstances around Mirabelle's death

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Actionables

  • You can enhance your critical thinking skills by practicing analyzing complex scenarios with friends during casual discussions, focusing on identifying inconsistencies and probable causes as if you were investigators in a mystery game.
    • This activity sharpens your ability to assess information and draw conclusions based on evidence. For example, you might take a news story or a historical event and dissect the timeline of events, debate potential motives, and question the plausibility of official accounts, similar to how you would approach a true-crime case.
  • You can improve your understanding of medical conditions and their effects by participating in online forums or social media groups dedicated to sharing experiences and knowledge about specific health issues like seizures.
    • Engaging with these communities can provide a deeper insight into the realities of living with such conditions, which can help you better assess the likelihood of certain actions being possible under specific medical circumstances. For instance, you might learn from firsthand accounts about the range of behaviors possible during a seizure, which could inform your perspective on similar cases.
  • You can develop a more informed perspective on fo ...

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#385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

Potential psychological/mental health factors, including postpartum issues

The case of Kai Yang raises challenging questions about the intersection of psychological factors, cultural beliefs, and the tragic death of her daughter Mirabelle.

The prosecution argued that Kai Yang may have been suffering from undiagnosed postpartum depression or psychosis

The prosecution raises the possibility that postpartum issues played a role in the inexplicable tragedy, suggesting that Kai Yang was dealing with postpartum depression and possibly psychosis following the birth of Mirabelle. They note that postpartum issues are most common in the first three months after childbirth and that Yang may have been overwhelmed on the day of the incident, potentially leading to harm. Moreover, they noted behaviors that might indicate undiagnosed psychosis, like involving a priest and discussing spirits, ones they believe could be linked to her Hmong cultural background.

Despite this, the defense argues that there is no concrete evidence to prove that Yang had postpartum psychosis to such an extent. They note the dramatic nature of the condition and how it would not have gone unnoticed.

However, the defense contested that the prosecution failed to provide sufficient evidence that Kai Yang exhibited clear symptoms of postpartum mental health issues

Stephanie Soo mentions that despite the prosecution's insistence on potential postpartum issues, Ka Yang has consistently denied feeling depressed and screened negative for postpartum depression. The defense highlighted the lack of solid evidence and diagnostic confirmation of postpartum psychosis, suggesting that Yang's actions following her seizure might have been due to confusion and delirium rather than psychosis.

Additionally, the expert for the defense highlighted that postpartum psychosis is a condition that is usually noticeable to those around, which was not the case with Yang.

Kai Yang herself reported experiencing auditory hallucinations and a sense of "spirits" or a "Caucasian demon" around the time of Mirabelle's death

Kai Yang and her husband reported strange phenomena, like a Caucasian demon staring at them and wanting their baby. But Yang clarified she never claimed the spirit compelled her actions. Stephanie Soo mentions that Yang’s reference to "spirits" could be interpreted as an impending seizure based on her Hmong cultural beliefs, rather than literal spirits, a point the defense used to argue that the prosecution may be taking her words too literally.

Ka Yang had expressed a fear of her daughter inheriting her predisposition for seizures which, according to one theory, could imply a motive rooted in a desire to protect Mirabelle from a similar fate.

The defense argued that Kai Yang's descriptions of her experiences with "spirits" and "demons" were rooted in her Hmong cultural beliefs

The defense countered the prosecution's interpretati ...

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Potential psychological/mental health factors, including postpartum issues

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The prosecution's argument about postpartum depression or psychosis could be challenged by the fact that such conditions typically present with a range of symptoms that should be observable by those close to the individual, and if these were not observed, it may weaken the argument.
  • The defense's claim of no concrete evidence could be countered by arguing that mental health issues, particularly postpartum conditions, can be subtle and not always diagnosed, especially if the individual is not forthcoming or aware of their symptoms.
  • The defense's assertion that the prosecution failed to provide sufficient evidence of postpartum mental health issues could be met with the point that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and mental health diagnoses can be complex and require expert interpretation beyond overt symptoms.
  • The report of auditory hallucinations and a sense of "spirits" or a "Caucasian demon" could be interpreted differently by mental health ...

Actionables

  • You can deepen your cultural sensitivity by researching Hmong spiritual beliefs to better understand cultural contexts that might influence someone's description of their mental health experiences. Start by reading books or articles on Hmong culture, and if possible, attend cultural events or workshops to engage with the community directly. This will help you appreciate the diversity of mental health expressions across different cultures.
  • Enhance your awareness of postpartum mental health by taking an online course or webinar on the subject. Look for resources offered by mental health organizations or universities that cover the signs, symptoms, and support strategies for postpartum depression and psychosis. This knowledge can be invaluable for recognizing potential issues in yourself or others and knowing when to seek professional help.
  • Create a personal mental health checklist tha ...

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#385: Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

The legal proceedings and appeals process

The case of Kai Yang, who was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, has taken a significant turn after her conviction was reversed on appeal due to concerns over the fairness of her trial and the evidence presented by the prosecution.

The initial trial resulted in Kai Yang being convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.

In the initial trial, Kai Yang’s defense team argued that the evidence against her was flawed, claiming that her pediatrician was improperly involved in the trial and that her history of epilepsy was not adequately considered as the primary factor in the death of Mirabelle. Despite these arguments, Yang was found guilty and received a 25 years to life sentence, a verdict that her lawyers believed to be incorrect, attributing the unfortunate tragedy to Yang's medical condition rather than deliberate harm.

Kai Yang's conviction has been reversed on appeal, with the court determining that the original trial was unfair and lacked sufficient evidence to support the prosecution's theories.

Upon appeal, the defense team successfully argued that the trial was unfair and that the prosecution based their case on insufficient evidence. They contended that the same doctor who had screened Kai Yang for postpartum depression and found her negative ended up testifying for the prosecution regarding postpartum depression psychosis. Furthermore, the defense criticized the prosecution for pushing unreliable statistics, such as one stating that 41% of women with mental illness and depression harbored thoughts of harming their child, challenging the relevance and rel ...

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The legal proceedings and appeals process

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Counterarguments

  • The conviction's reversal does not necessarily prove Kai Yang's innocence but indicates procedural or evidential issues during the trial.
  • The involvement of Kai Yang's pediatrician in the trial could be seen as a conflict of interest, but it could also be argued that the pediatrician had relevant insights into Yang's mental health and capabilities.
  • The history of epilepsy being inadequately considered is a significant concern, but it would be important to evaluate whether expert testimony during the trial sufficiently addressed how epilepsy could lead to the events in question.
  • The defense's belief that the verdict was incorrect is subjective and open to debate; the original jury's decision was based on the evidence presented at the time.
  • The reversal of the conviction on appeal highlights potential issues with the trial, but it does not necessarily invalidate the original evidence or the possibility that Yang could be found guilty again upon retrial.
  • The argument that the prosecution used unreliable statistics must be weighed against the context in which these statistics were presented and whether they were used to establish a pattern or a motive.
  • The claim that 41% of women with mental illness and depression have thoughts of harming their child may be challenged for its relevance to the specific case, but it could also be part of a broader discussion on mental health iss ...

Actionables

  • Educate yourself on the legal system by attending a local community college course or online seminar on criminal justice to better understand the complexities of trials and appeals. This knowledge can help you critically analyze cases presented in the media and foster informed discussions with peers about the justice system's workings.
  • Volunteer with organizations that support individuals with epilepsy to gain insight into the challenges they face, which can broaden your perspective on how medical conditions might impact behavior. This firsthand experience can be valuable when evaluating cases like Kai Yang's, where medical conditions are a key factor.
  • Start a book club focused on rea ...

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