Podcasts > Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News > Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

By Rachel Maddow

The latest episode of Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News examines the U.S. presidential debate format and the implications of dishonest rhetoric on voters. Commentators discuss how the debates prioritize performance over substantive policy discussions, failing to adequately assess the decision-making skills necessary for the presidency. They analyze Donald Trump's false claims, particularly about tariffs, and the media's role in normalizing unsubstantiated statements during debates.

The episode also explores the Democratic Party's reaction to Biden's performance and its post-debate strategy. It touches on the Supreme Court's significant rulings limiting federal agencies' regulatory power and narrowing the scope of an obstruction statute related to January 6th. As the hosts dissect these issues, the episode sheds light on the debates' declining impact and the consequences of political dishonesty on the democratic process.

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Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Jun 29, 2024 episode of the Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News

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Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

1-Page Summary

The role and impact of presidential debates

Debates have become more about performance than substance

Zerlina Maxwell states that while viewers expect substantive policy discussions, presidential debates fail to adequately test the skills necessary for the presidency, lacking in-depth policy debate and focusing more on performance.

Viewership decline and media influence

Debate viewership is declining, with only about one third of voters tuning in for the most recent event. The media often declares a winner based on performance over truth or policy merit, misleading voters on competencies needed for leadership.

Impact on voter behavior uncertain

Given low viewership, especially among undecided voters, the debate's true impact on voter behavior is unclear. The format does not sufficiently assess policy depth or decision-making skills critical for the presidency.

Donald Trump's dishonest rhetoric and policy positions

Trump made false claims about tariffs

Trump falsely stated that tariffs would make China pay the U.S., when in reality tariffs are paid by American consumers, according to commentators like Zerlina Maxwell. Trump demonstrated a lack of understanding of tariffs as a tax increasing consumer prices.

Trump normalized outlandish, unsubstantiated statements

Joe Biden accused Trump of lying about his role in the January 6th Capitol attack. Maxwell criticized the media for not challenging Trump's regular lies and erroneous claims that often go unchecked.

The Democratic Party's Reaction to Biden's Debate Performance

Concern over Biden's perceived weak performance

Many Democrats panicked over Biden's debate performance, with some suggesting replacing him as the nominee, though polling showed Biden still led Trump. Anxiety brewed over the potential down-ballot impact of a Biden defeat.

Most voters saw Biden's performance as acceptable

However, focus groups and polling indicated most voters did not see Biden's performance as a major setback, being aware of Trump's dishonesty during the debates.

The Biden campaign's post-debate strategy and messaging

Projecting calm and stability

Biden admitted his performance was not his strongest but highlighted his qualifications. The campaign aims to calm supporters, continue robust fundraising, and spread its message through other events.

Overcoming debate setbacks strategically

The strategy is to navigate the short-term media cycle while maintaining steady momentum. Fundraising and messaging efforts aim to reassure worried donors and overcome debate concerns.

The Supreme Court's significant rulings

Curtailing agency power in Loper-Brite case

The Court overturned the Chevron doctrine, limiting federal agencies' ability to interpret ambiguous statutes and regulate areas like the environment and consumer protection - an aggressive power grab by the Court.

January 6th obstruction statute ruling

The Court narrowed the scope of an obstruction statute related to January 6th, though this is unlikely to majorly impact prosecutions. A ruling on Trump's immunity could have larger consequences.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Debates still provide a platform for direct comparison of candidates, which can be informative for voters.
  • Declining viewership of debates might not reflect a decline in interest but a shift in how voters consume political content, such as through social media or highlights.
  • Even with low viewership, debates can still have a significant impact by influencing the media narrative and voter perceptions.
  • Some economists argue that tariffs can indirectly affect the exporting country by reducing demand for their goods, which can be a point in favor of Trump's claims, albeit not directly making China pay.
  • The media's role is to report rather than intervene, and some argue that it's the responsibility of the opposing candidate to challenge false statements.
  • Concerns over Biden's debate performance could have been a strategic move to lower expectations and make his actual performance seem better by comparison.
  • Biden's perceived weak performance in debates might not necessarily reflect his ability to govern effectively.
  • The Supreme Court's decision on agency power could be seen as a restoration of checks and balances, ensuring that unelected officials do not have excessive regulatory power.
  • The narrowing of the obstruction statute could be argued to provide a clearer legal standard, which is essential for the rule of law.

Actionables

  • You can enhance your critical thinking by analyzing political debates with a focus on policy rather than performance, creating a personal scorecard that rates the substance of each candidate's arguments.
    • Start by researching a few key policy areas that are important to you. During debates, take notes on what each candidate says about these topics. Afterward, score their responses based on depth, feasibility, and evidence, rather than their delivery or charisma. This practice can help you make more informed decisions at the ballot box and encourage a more substantive discussion among your peers.
  • You can develop a keener understanding of political rhetoric by keeping a "fact-check journal" during election seasons to track and research claims made by politicians.
    • Whenever you hear a statement from a politician that sounds questionable, jot it down in your journal. Later, use reputable sources to verify the accuracy of these claims. This habit not only keeps you informed but also hones your ability to discern truth from falsehood in political discourse, which is crucial in an era of misinformation.
  • You can foster a more informed voter community by starting a non-partisan discussion group focused on dissecting Supreme Court decisions and their implications.
    • Gather a small group of friends or community members with diverse political views. Choose a recent Supreme Court case, like the Loper-Brite decision, and discuss its potential impact on society. Use summaries from legal experts to guide your conversation. This can lead to a deeper understanding of judicial decisions and their real-world consequences, beyond the immediate political spin.

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Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

The role and impact of presidential debates

Presidential debates as a televised event

Zerlina Maxwell highlights the shift in the public's view of presidential debates, indicating that while people tune in to debates to hear substantive discussions on how candidates plan to improve their lives, the debates have become more about performance than substance. The host asserts that presidential debates fail to test the skills necessary for the presidency. They lack in-depth policy discussion and do not reflect the decision-making environment of the Oval Office.

Declined Viewership and Media Influence

Viewership for presidential debates is on the decline, with the most recent debate having the smallest audience of any first presidential debate in the 21st century, engaging only about one third of the people who voted in the last election. Additionally, debate performances receive outsized attention from the media and pundits. The host expresses concern over the media's coverage, which often declares a winner based on performance rather than truth or policy merit. The focus on performance over policy can mislead voters concerning the competencies needed for presidential leadership.

Questioning Debates' Impact on Voter Behavior

The debat ...

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The role and impact of presidential debates

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The viewership for presidential debates has been decreasing, with the most recent debate having the smallest audience for a first presidential debate in the 21st century. Only about one third of the people who voted in the last election tuned in to this debate. This decline in viewership raises concerns about the effectiveness of debates in engaging the electorate and influencing voter behavior.
  • Media coverage of presidential debates can heavily influence voter perceptions and decision-making by shaping how candidates are portrayed to the public. The media's focus on performance over policy substance can lead to voters forming opinions based on presentation rather than actual qualifications. This emphasis on winners and losers in debates can overshadow the critical policy discussions that should inform voter choices. Ultimately, media narratives can impact how voters perceive candidates' abilities to lead effectively.
  • Presidential debates often focus on candidates' performance rather than their ability to discuss policy in-depth or make decisions under pressure. ...

Counterarguments

  • While debates may focus on performance, they still provide a platform for candidates to articulate their policies and for viewers to compare them side-by-side.
  • Debates can offer moments of in-depth policy discussion, although these may be less frequent or less highlighted by the media.
  • The skills displayed in debates, such as quick thinking and effective communication, are indeed relevant to the presidency, even if they are not the only skills required.
  • Declining viewership does not necessarily diminish the importance of debates, as they are recorded and can be watched later, extending their reach beyond the live broadcast.
  • Media coverage, while often focused on performance, can still inform the public about the candidates' policy positions and their ability to handle the pressures of a high-stakes environment.
  • Even if debates are not the sole factor in changing voter behavior, they can contribute to the overall impression and decision-making process of the electorate.
  • Some voters, including undecided ones, may still be influenced ...

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Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

Donald Trump's dishonest rhetoric and policy positions

According to commentators Stuart Stevens, Joe Biden, and Zerlina Maxwell, Donald Trump’s recent debate performance was marked by false claims and a significant lack of policy understanding, particularly on economic issues such as tariffs.

Trump made numerous false and misleading full claims during the debate, including about the purpose and impact of tariffs.

Trump falsely claimed that tariffs would force China to pay the U.S. money, when in reality tariffs are paid by American consumers.

During the debate, Trump argued that his tariffs would make China "pay us a lot of money." However, commentators like Zerlina Maxwell and O'Donnell point out that Trump's statements misconstrue the nature of tariffs, which are in reality a tax on imported goods that increases prices for American consumers, rather than a direct payment from one government to another.

Trump demonstrated a lack of understanding about the basic function of tariffs as a tax on imported goods that increases prices for consumers.

Stevens describes Trump’s rhetoric as disconnected from the nation, indicating a misrepresentation of the facts. He notes that Trump missed an essential opportunity to present substantial policies and to reposition himself as a learned and improved candidate following his tumultuous presidency. Instead, Trump boasted about tax cuts for the wealthy, demonstrating his incomplete grasp of policy impacts.

The debate moderators did not challenge Trump’s misunderstanding of tariffs, a point of criticism by the host. A necessary question, according to the host, would have been to ask Trump to explain what a tariff is, as he showed a fundamental misunderstanding by not recognizing it as a tax on imported goods paid for by the consumer.

Trump's debate performance highlighted his tendency to make outlandish and unsubstantiated statem ...

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Donald Trump's dishonest rhetoric and policy positions

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • Tariffs can sometimes compel foreign governments to negotiate trade practices by creating economic pressure, which could indirectly benefit the imposing country.
  • The impact of tariffs on consumers can be complex and may also protect domestic industries, which could be part of a broader economic strategy.
  • Trump's focus on tax cuts for the wealthy could be defended as a means to stimulate investment and economic growth, following supply-side economic theories.
  • Trump's debate style and rhetoric, while criticized for lacking substance, could be seen as effective in mobilizing his base and communicating in a way that resonates with his supporters.
  • Accusations against Trump, such as being a "one-man crime wave," could be challenged on legal grounds, as the legal process requires conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, and political rhetoric does not equate to legal judgment.
  • Th ...

Actionables

  • You can enhance your critical thinking skills by practicing fact-checking in real-time during political debates or speeches. Start by watching a live political event and take notes on any bold claims or statistics presented. Pause the event if possible, and use reputable fact-checking websites to verify the information. This will train you to spot potential misinformation and understand the importance of fact-checking in forming educated opinions.
  • Develop a habit of researching the ripple effects of policies on different socioeconomic groups. Whenever you hear about a new policy proposal, such as a tax cut, spend some time looking into academic articles or credible analysis that discuss its potential impacts on various demographics. This will give you a more nuanced understanding of policy implications and prevent you from accepting oversimplified narratives.
  • Create a personal media literacy routine by evaluating the sources of your news and information. Ma ...

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Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

The Democratic Party's Reaction to Biden's Debate Performance

Many Democratic operatives, donors, and public figures expressed panic and concern about Biden's perceived weak debate performance.

In the aftermath of a notable debate, Zerlina Maxwell comments on the panic rippling through the ranks of Democratic operatives, donors, and public figures regarding Joe Biden's debate performance. There was palpable concern on television screens as the word "panic" became prevalent. Dreamy thoughts of a magical candidate emerging to take over the Democratic ticket circulated amongst some party members. The New York Times editorial even broached the idea of concocting a process to handpick a more suitable candidate, while acknowledging there was no such existing mechanism and without putting forward a viable name.

In the political ether, there was no shortage of speculation or desperation, but these feelings were not grounded in any substantive polling data. In fact, Biden was polling robustly against Trump, with no other Democrat showing similar traction. Reflecting on political precedent, there were instances such as in 1992 when attempts were made to replace Bill Clinton and again in 2016, discussions to unseat Trump after the Access Hollywood tape surfaced. Within the ranks of the Democratic Party, anxiety brewed over concern about the down-ballot impact a Biden defeat could have on senators, governors, and the party at large. Hakeem Jeffries, who is often in dialogue with donors, exhibited signs of this unease when probed about Biden's certainty as the nominee.

However, polling and focus group Defence implied synonym data indicated that most voters saw Biden's ...

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The Democratic Party's Reaction to Biden's Debate Performance

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The panic among Democratic operatives, donors, and public figures could be seen as a proactive measure to ensure the strongest possible campaign, rather than a sign of weakness.
  • Discussing alternative candidates might reflect a healthy democratic process where all options are considered to ensure the best outcome in an election.
  • The New York Times editorial could be advocating for due diligence in considering all strategic options, rather than expressing a lack of confidence in Biden.
  • Speculation and desperation in political discussions could be interpreted as engagement and passion for the political process and the outcome of the election.
  • Polling data, while currently favorable for Biden, is not always predictive of election outcomes, and concerns about his debate performance could be valid if they reflect longer-term trends or issues not captured by polls.
  • Anxiety about the down-ballot impact could be based on historical precedents where the top of the ticket significantly affected other races, which is a legitimate strategic concern for the party.
  • Hakeem Jeffries' unease could reflect a broader need for the party to remain vigilant and not complacent, even when polling data seems favorable.
  • While pol ...

Actionables

  • You can develop critical thinking by analyzing political debates without relying on media interpretations, focusing on the substance of what's said rather than the performance. Start by watching a debate and taking notes on the key points made by each candidate. Then, compare your notes to various media reports and see how the coverage aligns with your own observations. This will help you understand the influence of media framing and become more discerning of political narratives.
  • Enhance your understanding of public opinion by creating informal polls among your social circles after significant political events. After the next debate or political event, ask friends, family, or online communities simple questions about their perceptions. Track these informal results over time to see if they align with major polling data. This can give you a grassroots perspective on political sentiment and the reliability of different polling methods.
  • Practice emotional resilience in politics by setting up a 'debate diary' where you r ...

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Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

The Biden campaign's post-debate strategy and messaging

The Biden campaign, following a recent debate, has taken measures to project calm and stability, acknowledging the debate's limited effect on the race's trajectory.

Biden Campaign Maintains Confidence and Stability

Joe Biden has admitted that his debate performance was not his strongest but emphasized his qualifications, including his integrity, job knowledge, problem-solving abilities, and resilience. Kamala Harris echoed the high stakes of the election, highlighted the contrast between the candidates, and expressed confidence in Biden. She also reminded supporters that Biden had already achieved a victory over Trump once.

Lawrence O'Donnell notes the need for the Biden campaign to reassure supporters in the wake of the debate. Meanwhile, Stevens remains confident in Biden’s position, anticipating a decisive victory and suggesting the campaign will continue with its strategy without being overly swayed by the debates.

Initiatives for Calming Supporters

The team is focused on continuing robust fundraising efforts and spreading their message through other campaign events, as well as the media. They aim to manage the concerns of Democratic donors and officials who worry the debate performance could negatively affect Biden’s chances.

Following the debate, Biden hit the campaign trail, continuing to advocate for a wide range of policy changes and promises. Heilemann points out that despite some Democratic donors and party officials feeling panicked after the debate, the Biden campaign is thinking long term, believing in the ample space to offset the debate’s impact on election day.

The Biden campaign had a positive response to a recent event ...

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The Biden campaign's post-debate strategy and messaging

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The debate setbacks referred to in the text are related to Joe Biden's performance in a recent debate. While Biden acknowledged that his performance was not his strongest, the campaign is working to reassure supporters and overcome any concerns that may have arisen due to his debate performance. The focus is on maintaining campaign momentum and addressing any anxieties among donors and party officials following the debate.
  • A "media cycle" typically refers to the pattern of news coverage and public attention given to a particular event or topic by the media. It encompasses the stages of reporting, analysis, and discussion that occur within a specific timeframe, often influenced by factors like news agendas, audience interest, and editorial decisions. Understanding the media cycle is crucial for cam ...

Counterarguments

  • While Joe Biden emphasizes his qualifications and resilience, some may argue that debate performances are critical to demonstrating these qualities to undecided voters.
  • Kamala Harris's confidence in Biden and the contrast she draws between candidates might not resonate with all voters, especially those who are looking for substantive policy discussions over personality differences.
  • The need for the Biden campaign to reassure supporters post-debate could be seen as an indication that the debate did have a significant impact, contrary to their messaging.
  • Stuart Stevens's anticipation of a decisive victory may be overly optimistic and could potentially lead to complacency within the campaign and its supporters.
  • Continuation of robust fundraising efforts and spreading messages through events and media might not be sufficient if the campaign does not adequately address the issues raised during the debate.
  • Advocating for policy changes and promises on the campaign trail is important, but it may not be enough to sway voters who are influenced by debate performances.
  • Managing concerns of Democratic donors and officials might not translate to addressing the concerns of the broader electorate.
  • Focusing on navigating the media cycle to maintain campaign momentum may not be as effective as directly addressing any perceived shortcomings from the debate.
  • Efforts to connect with voters through events are important, but they must also be matched with effective communication strategies that reach a wider audie ...

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Lawrence: We live in a country where most commentators declared the liar the debate winner

The Supreme Court's significant rulings on administrative power and January 6th

The Supreme Court has released pivotal rulings that reframe administrative power and the scope of legal statutes regarding the January 6th Capitol attack.

In the Loper-Brite case, the Supreme Court overturned the longstanding Chevron doctrine, which had given deference to federal agencies' interpretation of ambiguous statutes.

The Supreme Court's decision in the Loper-Brite case significantly curtails the ability of federal agencies to craft and enforce regulations in areas like the environment, consumer protection, and public health. By overturning Chevron, a case that empowered administrative agencies through Congress's broad statutes like the Food and Drug Act, Clean Air Act, or the Environmental Protection Act, the Court has reshaped the landscape of administrative regulation.

This ruling significantly curtails the ability of federal agencies to regulate in areas like the environment, consumer protection, and public health.

The Supreme Court's ruling limits how much agencies can regulate food and drugs, environmental protection, and other sectors previously managed by agency regulations. This represents a substantial reduction in the authority vested in these agencies to craft regulations critical to protecting public interests.

It represents an aggressive power grab by the Court, overturning a well-established precedent and doctrine that had been in place for decades.

The ruling showcases the Court's aggressive stance in claiming power for itself by overturning Chevron—a well-established precedent that had been referred to 70 times by the Supreme Court and cited 18,000 times in lower courts.

The Court decided that the Justice Department's interpretation of the obstruction statute 1512 C2 was too broad. Instead, they defined it more narrowly, specifying that it should apply more directly to the destruction or interference with documents.

How ...

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The Supreme Court's significant rulings on administrative power and January 6th

Additional Materials

Counterarguments

  • The Chevron doctrine, while longstanding, may not have been the only or best way to interpret ambiguous statutes, and its overturning could lead to a more rigorous legislative process and clearer statutes.
  • Federal agencies' regulatory power, though curtailed, may still be exercised within the bounds set by Congress, ensuring that regulations are more directly accountable to elected representatives.
  • The decision to overturn Chevron could be seen as a recalibration of the balance of power between the judiciary and the executive rather than an aggressive power grab, aiming to reinforce the principle of separation of powers.
  • The narrowing of the scope of the obstruction statute could be interpreted as a clarification of the law, ensuring that it is applied as intended by Congress and not overly broadened by prosecutorial interpretation.
  • While the immediate impact on January 6th prosecutions may be limited, t ...

Actionables

  • You can educate yourself on the basics of administrative law to better understand the impact of such court decisions. Start by reading accessible books or articles that explain how federal agencies create regulations and the role of the judiciary in reviewing those regulations. This knowledge will help you grasp the significance of changes in legal precedents and how they might affect your daily life, especially in areas like environmental policies and consumer rights.
  • Engage in community discussions to raise awareness about the importance of regulatory agencies. Organize informal meetups or use social media platforms to initiate conversations about how federal regulations touch on various aspects of public health, safety, and welfare. By doing so, you contribute to a more informed public that can advocate for or against changes in regulatory oversight based on a deeper understanding of the issues.
  • Monitor legal developments related to high-profile cases and understand their broader i ...

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