“We Have a Verdict”
In this episode of Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News, Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord discuss the historic trial where Donald J. Trump faced felony charges and was unanimously found guilty on all counts. They explain the prosecution's methodical presentation of evidence and outline potential sentencing factors and appeal timelines.
The conversation also addresses the unprecedented scenario of a convicted president potentially running for office or serving from prison. While focusing on core principles upheld in the trial, such as equal justice and the rule of law, Weissmann and McCord analyze the broader implications for democratic processes and public trust in the justice system.
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1-Page Summary
The trial process and verdict
In a historic trial, Donald J. Trump faced felony charges and was unanimously found guilty on all 34 counts by an attentive jury, Andrew Weissmann notes, marking the first time a US president was convicted of felonies.
The prosecution methodically presented evidence, including testimony from Trump allies like David Pecker, revealing actions during Trump's presidency tied to undermining the 2016 election, Mary McCord explains.
Sentencing and appeals
Trump's sentencing will consider aggravating factors due to the crimes' nature of falsifying records to conceal efforts to undermine a presidential election, Weissmann says. The judge may also factor Trump's contempt rulings and the significance of violating election laws.
While appeals are expected, delays are projected to be minimal, with established timelines for motions and appeals after sentencing.
Trump's political future
Legally, Trump's conviction doesn't prevent him from running for president or serving, Weissmann and McCord state. However, the unprecedented situation of a president potentially serving from prison would likely spur legal challenges.
Broader implications for the justice system
The trial upheld core American principles like equal justice and rule of law, Weissmann emphasizes, showing no individual is above accountability. The District Attorney calls it a demonstration that status didn't sway the fair, intimidation-free process, which Weissmann praises as exemplary.
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Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Andrew Weissmann is a former federal prosecutor who served as a key figure in the investigation led by Special Counsel Robert Mueller into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Mary McCord is a former senior official at the U.S. Department of Justice, where she held a prominent role in national security and legal matters. Both Weissmann and McCord are known for their expertise in complex legal cases and have significant experience in high-profile investigations and prosecutions. Their insights and perspectives on the trial and its implications are informed by their backgrounds in law enforcement and national security.
- The potential legal implications of a president serving from prison involve complex constitutional questions about the ability to govern effectively while incarcerated, the impact on national security, and the interpretation of laws regarding presidential duties and powers. This scenario raises concerns about the practicality of carrying out presidential responsibilities from a prison cell and the potential challenges in maintaining public trust and confidence in the government under such circumstances. The legal system may need to address issues related to succession, continuity of government, and the balance of powers between branches in the event a sitting president is imprisoned. The situation could trigger debates on the limits of executive authority, the mechanisms for removal or temporary transfer of power, and the overall stability of the political system in the face of such unprecedented challenges.
- The significance of contempt rulings in Trump's sentencing relates to any instances where he may have shown disrespect or defiance towards the court during legal proceedings. Violating election laws, in this context, points to any actions Trump took that breached regulations governing fair and lawful elections, potentially impacting the democratic process. These factors can influence the severity of Trump's sentence by demonstrating a disregard for legal norms and the integrity of the electoral system.
- After a sentencing in a criminal case, the defense typically has a limited window to file motions or appeals. These post-sentencing actions must adhere to specific timelines set by the court. The process involves submitting legal arguments to challenge the conviction or sentence, with the goal of seeking a review or modification by a higher court. The timelines for these motions and appeals are crucial, as missing deadlines can result in the forfeiture of the right to challenge the judgment.
Counterarguments
- The unanimous verdict, while legally sound, may be scrutinized by some as potentially influenced by public opinion or political pressure.
- Testimony from Trump allies could be questioned for potential bias or coercion, especially if any witnesses had fallen out with Trump or had reasons to seek leniency for themselves.
- The consideration of aggravating factors in sentencing could be seen as potentially punitive beyond the scope of the crimes, depending on one's view of the justice system's role in balancing punishment and rehabilitation.
- Even with established timelines, appeals in high-profile cases can sometimes uncover procedural errors or new evidence, leading to unexpected delays.
- The legal ability for Trump to run for president or serve again might be challenged on moral or ethical grounds by those who believe a felony conviction should disqualify a candidate from such high office.
- The assertion that the trial upheld core American principles could be debated on the grounds that the justice system is not always perfect and that other cases may not receive the same level of scrutiny or fairness.
- The claim that the trial was intimidation-free and fair could be contested by those who feel that the media or political climate could have created a biased environment.
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The trial process and verdict
Following a critical trial that captured the nation's spotlight, Donald J. Trump faced the scales of justice and was found guilty on all 34 felony counts, marking a historical first for a former US president.
The district attorney presented a compelling case, with the jury carefully deliberating and reaching a unanimous guilty verdict on all 34 accounts
The District Attorney confidently expressed that the jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, found Donald J. Trump guilty of all charges, which included falsifying business records to obscure illicit activities influencing the 2016 election. The case was regarded as one built on following facts and the law impartially.
Andrew Weissmann underlined the fairness of the trial and the critical role due process and the rule of law played prior to the final judgment. The jurors were perceived to be unprejudiced and concentrated on their responsibility to meet the state's proof standard.
The prosecutors methodically built their case, using evidence and testimony from Trump allies like David Pecker and Hope Hicks
Compelling evidence and testimony, including those from Trump allies like David Pecker, was critical in the prosecution's case against Trump. Jurors delved into specifics, such as a 2015 Trump Tower meeting involving David Pecker and Michael Cohen, which highlighted the detailed nature of the evidence presented.
Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord examined the trial's outcome, with the jury holding Trump accountable for crimes orchestrated from within the Oval Office. They pinpointed actions in 2017, signified by checks from that year, as evidence of wrongdoings committed during his presidency.
The jury was attentive and engaged throughout the trial, asking thoughtful questions before delivering the verdict
Described as vigilant and involved, jurors dedicated long hours to the trial, such as staying until 8 p.m. on the night of closing arguments. Throughout their deliberations, they engaged deeply with the case, requesting important parts of the transcript, showing their thoroughness before arriving at a decisio ...
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The trial process and verdict
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Clarifications
- Andrew Weissmann is a former prosecutor who played a key role in the investigation led by Robert Mueller into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. David Pecker is a media executive who was involved in a scandal related to hush money payments made on behalf of Donald Trump. Hope Hicks is a former White House communications director who worked closely with Trump during his presidency.
- The significance of checks from 2017 as evidence of wrongdoing lies in their connection to the crimes allegedly committed during Trump's presidency. These checks are believed to provide a financial trail linking Trump to illicit activities that occurred while he was in office. The prosecution used these checks to demonstrate a pattern of behavior and financial transactions that supported their case against Trump. The presence of these checks from 2017 helped establish a timeline and context for the alleged criminal activities attributed to Trump during his time as president.
- The jury poll pr ...
Counterarguments
- The unanimous verdict, while legally sound, may not reflect the opinion of the entire public, highlighting the divide in public opinion on political figures and trials.
- Emphasizing the role of due process and the rule of law is important, but it's also critical to acknowledge the potential for systemic biases that could influence the perception of fairness in high-profile cases.
- The use of testimony from Trump allies could be seen as a double-edged sword, as their motivations and biases could be questioned, potentially undermining the strength of the evidence.
- Holding a president accountable for crimes committed during their presidency sets a precedent, but it also raises questions about the balance of power and the potential for political motivations to influence legal proceedings.
- The jury's attentiveness and engagement are commendable, but it's important to consider the immense pressure and scrutiny they may have faced, which could impact their decision-making process.
- The jury poll process ensures unanimity, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee that all ...
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Sentencing and appeals
In the wake of the verdict returned against Donald Trump, the sentencing process is poised to consider various aggravating factors due to the unique nature of the crimes committed, and appeals are expected to follow.
The sentencing process will consider various aggravating factors given the unique nature of the crimes
Sentencing for Donald Trump, now a first-time felon, takes place on July 11th for 34 counts classified as E felonies. Despite his lack of prior convictions, the case is complicated by many aggravating factors. The falsified records were not solely for financial gain but were employed to conceal efforts to undermine a presidential election. Additionally, there were 10 different findings of contempt by Judge Mershawn against Trump, signaling disrespect for the court system. The judge may also consider the significance of the underlying crime, which involves a violation of New York election law—a conspiracy to promote the election by unlawful means.
Trump is a first-time felon, but the falsified records were used to cover up a conspiracy to undermine the 2016 election
The records in question went beyond financial deception; they were instrumental in a conspiracy aimed at undermining the electoral process of 2016. Judge Mershawn has previously warned of possible incarceration for Trump due to his disrespect for the judicial system.
The judge will likely take into account Trump's continued attacks on the judiciary and lack of remorse
Weissmann discusses how a lack of remorse can influence sentencing, underscoring that admissions of fault typically indicate a lower risk of reoffending. In Trump's situation, his apparent pride in his conduct and dismissal of the verdict as rigged could weigh heavily against him. It's worth noting, however, that specific discussions of Trump's attacks on the judiciary or his lackacy of remorse weren't covered in the provided transcript.
While Trump's team will likely file motions for a new trial and appeals, significant delays are unlikely
The defendant's counsel has already move ...
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Sentencing and appeals
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- "E felonies" are a classification of felony crimes in New York State, with the letter indicating the severity level. In New York, felonies are categorized from A to E, with E being the least severe. "Contempt" in legal terms signifies a willful disregard or disobedience of a court order or behavior that shows disrespect for the authority of the court.
- When a defendant is dissatisfied with the outcome of a trial, they can file a motion for a new trial, typically based on legal errors or new evidence. If the motion for a new trial is denied, the next step is to file an appeal, which involves asking a higher court to review the trial proceedings for errors that may have affected the outcome. Appeals focus on legal issues rather than re-examining the facts of the case, and they aim to ensure that the trial was conducted fairly and in accordance with the law. Appeals can result in various outcomes, such as affirming the original verdict, ordering a new trial, or even overturning the conviction.
- The legal process involving motions for a new trial and appeals may cause delays, but these are not expected to be significant. The judge has set specific dates for sentencing and motions, aiming to maintain a structured timeline. While Trump's defense team may r ...
Counterarguments
- The consideration of aggravating factors is a standard part of the sentencing process, and while the nature of the crimes may be unique, the legal framework for assessing these factors is well-established and should be applied uniformly, regardless of the defendant's identity.
- The assertion that the falsified records were used to cover up a conspiracy to undermine the 2016 election is a legal conclusion that may be subject to interpretation and challenge on appeal, particularly regarding the intent and direct impact of the actions.
- While Judge Mershawn may have warned of possible incarceration, the final sentencing decision will need to be based on legal guidelines and the specifics of the case, not solely on previous statements or warnings.
- The impact of Trump's lack of remorse and continued attacks on the judiciary on sentencing could be seen as subjective and potentially prejudicial if not directly related to the legal criteria for sentencing.
- The defense's right to file motions for a new trial and appeals is a fundamental part of the legal process, and such actions should not be prejudged as merely delaying tactics without evidence to support such a claim.
- The likelihood of success for a motion for a new trial may be low, but it is not negligible, and each case can present unique legal questions that could warrant a different outcome.
- While the ju ...
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Trump's political future
The political future of Donald Trump remains a contentious and legally complicated matter, outlined by observations from Weissmann and McCord.
Trump's conviction does not legally bar him from running for or serving as president
Despite Donald Trump's legal entanglements, his conviction on multiple counts does not disqualify him from either running for the presidency or serving as president.
Weissmann and McCord discuss the implications of Trump’s potential conviction. Weissmann notes that if Trump were to be elected president, his prison sentence could possibly be postponed until after his term. The Constitution does not specifically forbid a felon from seeking the presidency.
If elected, Trump could potentially face legal struggles related to serving his sentence concurrent with his presidential role. McCord foresees potential litigation and debates over whether Trump could serve while being president, a situation she describes as a "big to be determined".
The potential conviction raises a host of unprecedented concerns about the practicality of a president carrying out the duties of the office f ...
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Trump's political future
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Clarifications
- The potential implications of Trump's conviction on multiple counts are centered around the legal complexities of a convicted individual running for and potentially serving as president, including the possibility of postponing a prison sentence until after a presidential term and the unprecedented challenges of a president carrying out duties while facing incarceration. The discussion highlights the lack of explicit constitutional provisions barring a felon from seeking the presidency but underscores the significant practical and legal hurdles that would arise if a convicted individual were to hold the office.
- The practical challenges and legal complexities of a president serving from prison would involve issues such as communication restrictions, security concerns, decision-making processes, and the ability to fulfill constitutional duties while incarcerated. These challenges could impact the effectiveness of governance, the perception of the presidency both domestically and internationally, and the overall stability of the government. The logi ...
Counterarguments
- While the Constitution does not explicitly disqualify a convicted felon from serving as president, it is silent on the specifics of such a scenario, which could lead to interpretations that uphold the spirit of the law over the letter, potentially disqualifying a candidate based on their ability to fulfill the duties of the office.
- The argument that Trump's prison sentence could be postponed might be challenged on the grounds that no legal precedent exists for such a deferral, and it could be seen as undermining the rule of law and equal treatment under the law.
- The practicality of a president carrying out duties from behind bars, while constitutionally ambiguous, could be argued against on the basis of the president's need to be readily available and present for various duties, which incarceration would impede.
- The assertion that a president could serve from prison might be met with the counterargument that the executive branch's credibility and functionality could be severely compromised, both domestically and internationally, by having a leader who is incarcerated.
- The idea of a flurry of legal contests and logi ...
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Broader implications for the justice system
The trial and verdict of a high-profile political leader holds broader implications for American values of justice and rule of law.
The trial and verdict upheld core American principles of equal justice and the rule of law
The District Attorney stated that the case demonstrated the upholding of American principles, such as equal justice and the rule of law, regardless of an individual's status or political influence.
Weissmann reflects on the trial's importance, noting that it’s a sign that the United States has joined other democracies in holding political leaders accountable through legitimate legal processes. He underscores that no one, not even those who hold or have held high government positions, is above the law. This is evident when people are held accountable for crimes that may have originated before taking office but were carried out while in power.
The conversation highlights that despite the former president's efforts to claim immunity and criticize the judicial process, adherence to the law prevailed. The denial of immunity and enforcement of the gag order showed that the legal process was not swayed by status, a testament to the country’s commitment to equal justice.
Weissmann praises the fairness of the trial process, guided by an outstanding jurist who conducted proceedings dispassionately under exceptional pressure. He depicts the actions of the prosecutor's team, jurors, witnesses, and the judge as exemplary, stressing that they operated devoid of intimidation or prejudice and in accordance with their oat ...
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Broader implications for the justice system
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Clarifications
- A gag order is a legal directive issued by a court that restricts the disclosure of certain information to the public or unauthorized parties. It is often used to prevent prejudicial pre-trial publicity or to protect sensitive information, such as trade secrets or the privacy of individuals. Violating a gag order can result in legal consequences. Gag orders are controversial as they can be seen as a form of prior restraint on free speech.
- Alvin Bragg is the New York County District Attorney, the chief prosecutor for Manhattan. He made history by being the first African American elected to this position in 2021 and later became the first district attorney to secure a conviction of a former U.S. president in 2024. Bragg has a background as a lawyer and has held significant legal positions prior to becoming the District Attorney.
- "Party-transcending justice" refers to the concept of justice that goes beyond political affiliations or party loyalties. It emp ...
Counterarguments
- The perception of equal justice and rule of law may vary among different segments of the population, and some may view the trial as politically motivated rather than a pure pursuit of justice.
- The concept of a fair trial can be subjective, and the intense media coverage and public opinion surrounding high-profile cases can potentially influence the proceedings.
- The assertion that no one is above the law, while ideal, may not always hold true in practice due to systemic issues or biases that can affect the judicial process.
- The claim that the legal process was not swayed by status might be contested by those who argue that less influential individuals might not receive the same level of legal scrutiny or resources in their defense.
- The role of the District Attorney and the prosecution team can be seen as contentious, with some arguing that prosecutorial discretion can lead to unequal application of the law.
- The idea that the jury’s decision is the preeminent voice in the pursuit of justice may overlook the potential for juror bia ...
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