Lawrence: ‘Michael Cohen on the witness stand is like Donald Trump in AA.’
In this episode of the Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News podcast, the hosts unpack the significance of Michael Cohen's testimony in the trial against Donald Trump. Cohen provided firsthand accounts of Trump's role in the hush money payments and efforts to conceal them, corroborated by physical evidence like bank statements.
While Cohen faced credibility issues, the prosecution aimed to portray him as a guide to the broader case against Trump. Legal experts discuss the prosecution's reliance on additional witnesses and documentation to build an "extremely strong" case, largely unaffected by the defense's attempts at challenging the evidence. The ironic dynamic of Trump dismissing Cohen's credibility, despite hiring him, is also examined.
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1-Page Summary
Cohen's Testimony and the Evidence It Provides
Michael Cohen's testimony provided direct evidence of Trump's involvement in hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and efforts to conceal them, according to Adam Klasfeld and Lawrence O'Donnell. Cohen recounted specific conversations where Trump approved and directed the payment scheme, referring to it as a "disaster" that needed resolving before the election. Cohen's testimony also corroborated physical evidence like annotated bank statements detailing the payment plan.
The Issue of Cohen's Credibility as a Witness
The prosecution pre-emptively addressed Cohen's credibility issues, disclosing his criminal record and misdeeds upfront, as described by Andrew Weissmann. They aimed to present Cohen as a guide to broader evidence beyond just his testimony. Cohen's demeanor was notably calm and measured on the stand, contrasting his past combative persona and eliciting moments of relatability with the jury.
The Prosecution's Overall Case Against Trump
Weissmann highlighted the prosecution's extremely strong case against Trump, independent of Cohen. Key witnesses like David Packer, Jeff McConney, and Hope Hicks provided damning testimony. An "avalanche" of physical documentation like call logs and text messages also corroborated the claims. The defense's attempts to challenge the evidence were largely unsuccessful.
Trump's Conduct During the Trial
Trump appeared disengaged during proceedings, often reading "fan mail" or resting with eyes closed, contrasting the serious nature of the courtroom video screens adjacent to him, bearing the label "New York County Supreme Criminal." O'Donnell noted the irony of Trump disregarding Cohen's credibility when he hired and elevated Cohen himself.
1-Page Summary
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Michael Cohen, a former lawyer for Donald Trump, testified about Trump's involvement in hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and efforts to conceal them. Cohen detailed specific conversations where Trump approved and directed the payment scheme, providing direct evidence of Trump's knowledge and actions in the matter. Cohen's testimony was supported by physical evidence like annotated bank statements outlining the payment plan, strengthening the case against Trump. Cohen's credibility as a witness was addressed by the prosecution, who presented him as a guide to broader evidence beyond just his testimony.
- Michael Cohen's testimony revealed that Donald Trump was involved in hush money payments to adult film actress Stormy Daniels. Cohen detailed conversations where Trump approved and directed the payment scheme to silence Daniels about an alleged affair before the 2016 election. Annotated bank statements were presented as physical evidence supporting Cohen's account of the payment plan. The hush money payments were described as a critical issue that needed to be resolved discreetly before the election.
- Andrew Weissmann was a key figure in the prosecution team involved in the case against Trump. He played a significant role in addressing Michael Cohen's credibility issues and presenting him as a guide to broader evidence. Weissmann highlighted the strength of the case against Trump, emphasizing the importance of witnesses and physical documentation. His insights provided context on the strategic approach taken by the prosecution in the trial.
Counterarguments
- Cohen's past criminal record and admitted lying to Congress could be used to question the reliability and motives behind his testimony.
- The defense might argue that Trump's alleged approval and direction of the payment scheme were based on legal advice and not intended to violate campaign finance laws.
- Physical evidence like bank statements could be interpreted differently, and the defense might argue that they do not conclusively prove Trump's intent or knowledge of wrongdoing.
- The prosecution's strategy to address Cohen's credibility issues upfront could be seen as an admission that his testimony alone is not entirely trustworthy.
- Cohen's calm and measured demeanor on the stand could be a practiced performance rather than a genuine reflection of his character.
- The strength of the prosecution's case could be challenged by questioning the credibility and motives of other key witnesses, suggesting they may have biases or their own reasons to testify against Trump.
- The defense might argue that the physical documentation like call logs and text messages are circumstantial and do not directly implicate Trump in any illegal activity.
- Trump's disengaged behavior during the trial could be interpreted as confidence in his innocence rather than disrespect for the proceedings.
- The argument that Trump should not disregard Cohen's credibility because he hired him could be countered by suggesting that Trump was not aware of Cohen's actions or that Cohen acted independently.
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Cohen's Testimony and the Evidence It Provides
The revelations from Michael Cohen's testimony offer significant insights into Donald Trump's alleged involvement in hush money payments and efforts to obfuscate them.
Cohen provided direct evidence of Trump's involvement in hush money payments and cover-up efforts
In a striking testimony, Michael Cohen provided vivid details regarding Donald Trump's direct involvement in a scheme to silence Stormy Daniels.
Cohen testified about specific conversations with Trump where Trump approved and directed the payment scheme to Stormy Daniels
Cohen recounted specific conversations with Trump wherein he was directed to "take care of" the issue with Stormy Daniels. Trump allegedly referred to the controversy as a "disaster" that needed to be pushed beyond the election date, indicating its potential negative impact on his campaign.
Cohen described Trump's attitude towards the outcome of the elections and the payments to Stormy Daniels, highlighting Trump's comments regarding Melania, and emphasized that nothing was done without Trump's sign-off.
Cohen's testimony corroborated key physical evidence like the handwritten notes documenting the payment plan
Cohen spoke about a particular instance where he, together with Weisselberg, presented a bank statement with annotations to Trump, detailing the plan to repay the sum through monthly installments. Cohen clarified that this strategy was premeditated and discussed prior to the meeting with Trump, who subsequently approved it.
Cohen's testimony gave the jury an inside view of the criminal conspiracy
Through his testimony, Cohen aimed to give the jury an inside view of the alleged criminal conspiracy, providing critical information about the inner workings within the Trump Organization.
Cohen described the behind-the-scenes discussions and decision-making process with Trump and other Trump Organization executives
Cohen's anecdotes and descriptions centered on Trump's decision-making role. He also confirmed the accounting of funds as fake legal fees. Interestingly, he noted a conscious decision to delay payment to Stormy Daniels, using the holiday season as an excuse, until after the election based on Trump's instructions, that it would not matter post-election.
Adam Klasfeld emphasized that Cohen's testimony foc ...
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Cohen's Testimony and the Evidence It Provides
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Hush money payments are financial transactions made to keep someone quiet about potentially damaging information. Cover-up efforts involve actions taken to conceal or obscure certain activities or information to prevent public disclosure or legal consequences. In this context, the hush money payments and cover-up efforts are related to allegations of Donald Trump's involvement in paying off individuals like Stormy Daniels to keep them from speaking out about their relationships with him. These actions are significant because they can indicate attempts to hide potentially damaging information that could impact Trump's reputation or legal standing.
- Stormy Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford, is an adult film actress who became involved in a legal dispute with former President Donald Trump over an alleged affair in 2006. Trump's attorney, Michael Cohen, paid hush money to Daniels to keep quiet about the affair. This controversy led to legal issues for Trump, including charges related to the payments. The Stormy Daniels controversy has been a significant part of the legal challenges faced by Trump.
- Weisselberg, in the context of the text, is most likely referring to Allen Weisselberg, the Chief Financial Officer of the Trump Organization. He was a key figure in the financial operations of the organization and was involved in various financial matters, including the hush money payments discussed in Michael Cohen's testimony. Allen Weisselberg's role in the organization made him a central figure in understanding the financial intricacies and decision-making processes related to the payments and cover-up efforts.
- The Trump Organization is a conglomerate of businesses owned and operated by Donald Trump and his family. Trump Organization executives are individuals in leadership positions within the organization who oversee various aspects of its operations, such as finance, real estate development, marketing, and legal affairs. These executives play key roles in decision-making processes, strategic planning, and the overall ...
Counterarguments
- Cohen's credibility as a witness may be questioned due to his own legal troubles and previous convictions for lying to Congress, which could undermine the reliability of his testimony.
- The testimony and evidence provided by Cohen may be interpreted differently, with some arguing that the payments could be seen as personal rather than campaign-related expenses, thus not necessarily intended to influence the election.
- The defense might argue that the physical evidence, such as handwritten notes and bank statements, does not conclusively prove Trump's intent or direct involvement, as they could be interpreted in various ways.
- The involvement of other Trump Organization executives in the payment scheme could suggest a broader organizational practice rather than direct orders from Trump, potentially diffusing the responsibility.
- The timing of the payments and the decision to delay them could be argued as coincidental with the election and not necessarily for the p ...
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The issue of Cohen's credibility as a witness
The credibility of Michael Cohen, a critical witness in a high-stakes case, has been at the forefront of legal discussions. His past associations with Donald Trump and criminal record present challenges that the prosecution is keen to address.
The prosecution addressed Cohen's credibility issues head-on
In an effort to mitigate the expected assaults on Cohen's reliability by the defense, the prosecution has taken a pre-emptive approach to address the credibility issues.
They planned to present Cohen's criminal record and past misdeeds before cross-examination, getting out in front of the defense's attacks
Weissmann and Lawrence O'Donnell discuss the prosecution's strategy to disclose Cohen's past crimes and unethical actions—including perjury—upfront. This acknowledgement of Cohen’s darker past in their characterization of him is a strategic attempt to pre-empt the defense's likely attacks during cross-examination.
The prosecutors highlighted how Cohen's testimony was corroborated by other evidence, reducing the need to rely solely on his word
The state's strategy, as discussed by Andrew Weissmann, is not to make the trial a referendum on Cohen's credibility, but rather to use him as a guide to a broader array of evidence that does not depend exclusively on his testimony. This is crucial given Cohen's history of perjury and making false statements.
Cohen came across as more sober and measured than previous public appearances
The assessment of Cohen's demeanor during his testimony reveals a notable departure from his previously known public image.
His calm, deliberate demeanor on the stand contrasted with his past combative media persona
Weissmann notes that Cohen, drawing upon his awareness of how ...
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The issue of Cohen's credibility as a witness
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Weissmann is Andrew Weissmann, a former prosecutor who was a key figure in the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Lawrence O'Donnell is a television host and political commentator known for his show "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" on MSNBC. In the context of the text, Weissmann and O'Donnell are discussing the prosecution's strategy regarding Michael Cohen's credibility as a witness in a legal case.
- Michael Cohen, a lawyer, was previously known for his close association with Donald Trump, serving as Trump's personal attorney and "fixer" for many years. Cohen was involved in various legal matters and business dealings on behalf of Trump, including handling sensitive issues like hush money payments to women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump. Their relationship soured after Cohen pleaded guilty to multiple charges, including campaign finance violations and lying to Congress, which led to his cooperation with authorities in various investigations.
- Cohen's transformation from a man associated with gangster-like behavior signifies a change in public perception of him. This shift suggests that Cohen's demeanor during his recent testimony portrayed him in a more relatable and sympathetic light. It indicates a departure from his previous image of being involved in questionable or criminal activities. This transformation could influe ...
Counterarguments
- Presenting Cohen's criminal record and past misdeeds could be seen as a double-edged sword, potentially reinforcing doubts about his credibility rather than mitigating them.
- The effectiveness of corroborating evidence is contingent on its quality and direct relevance to Cohen's testimony; if the evidence is circumstantial or weak, it may not sufficiently bolster his credibility.
- Cohen's sober and measured demeanor in court, while contrasting with his past public appearances, may not necessarily be indicative of truthfulness; it could be perceived as a well-rehearsed performance.
- The jury's apparent warming to Cohen's "new neighbor" persona does not guarantee that they w ...
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The prosecution's overall case against Trump
The prosecution has reportedly constructed a formidable case against Donald Trump, largely independent of the testimony of Michael Cohen. Key witnesses and a vast array of corroborating evidence have painted a picture that has left the defense with a challenging uphill battle.
The prosecutors have built an extremely strong case independent of Cohen
Key witnesses like David Packer, Jeff McConney, and Hope Hicks provided damning testimony and evidence
Andrew Weissmann highlighted the significance of multiple witnesses, including David Packer, whose testimony was described as "damning," and Jeff McConney, whose notes were said to detail a cover-up scheme. Hope Hicks also provided what was termed as "incredibly damaging information." These testimonies, among others, appear to make the case against Trump substantial.
The physical documentation, call logs, and other corroborating evidence created an "avalanche" of proof
The prosecution’s case is strengthened by the "avalanche" of proof from various sources. For instance, physical documentation and call logs have been part of the evidence. Weissmann referred to Allen Weisselberg’s notes, suggesting a robust case. They further buttressed their claims with corroborated evidence, including calls, text messages, tweets, and tapes. Every witness seems to have corroborated Cohen’s testimony, aligning with Adam Klasfeld's observations.
The evidence presented included detailed accounts, such as hours of proceedings, as well as text messages and phone messages that paint a comprehensive picture of the alleged misconduct.
The prosecution has effectively boxed in the defense's strategy
The defense's attempts to challenge the evidence have been repeatedly rebuffed
According to Klasfeld, the defense's approach, such as suggesting the evidence was falsified, had little traction, with suggestions that attempts by Trump's attorney Emil ...
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The prosecution's overall case against Trump
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Michael Cohen is a former lawyer for Donald Trump who has been involved in various legal issues related to Trump. He has provided testimony and evidence that has been significant in building the case against Trump, including details about potential misconduct. Cohen's cooperation with prosecutors has added weight to the prosecution's arguments and has been a key factor in shaping the case against Trump.
- The legal proceedings against Trump mentioned in the text appear to involve a prosecution team presenting a case against him. Key witnesses and corroborating evidence have been used to build a strong case, challenging the defense. The defense seems to be struggling to counter the prosecution's evidence, lacking a coherent alternative narrative. The text suggests that the prosecution has effectively boxed in the defense's strategy by presenting a compelling case.
- Allen Weiss ...
Counterarguments
- The strength of a case cannot be fully assessed until the defense has presented its arguments and cross-examined the prosecution's witnesses.
- Testimony from key witnesses may be subject to bias or personal motivations that could undermine their credibility.
- Physical documentation and call logs must be contextualized properly, and there may be alternative explanations for the evidence presented.
- The defense's strategy may involve introducing reasonable doubt later in the trial, which is not always apparent at the outset.
- The jury is instructed to consider both sides of the case impartially and may not necessarily acce ...
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Trump's conduct during the trial
During the course of the trial, Donald Trump showcased a striking disengagement, often reading "fan mail" or resting with his eyes closed, providing a stark contrast to the serious nature of the proceedings indicated by the courtroom video screens.
Trump's apparent disengagement and reliance on "fan mail" during the proceedings
During Michael Cohen's testimony, Trump appeared to show signs of disinterest or fatigue, spending considerable time with his eyes closed, head tilted back as if struggling to stay awake. Trump’s pattern of behavior included frequent periods where his eyes were shut for longer durations, his head occasionally tilting to one side and slumping, suggesting he may have been dozing off.
When attentive, Trump was often seen reading typed quotes from supportive public commentators like Mark Levin and Andrew McCarthy. His engagement with these comments was such that, to the jury, it could appear as though he was scrutinizing crucial documents related to the case since the actual context was not visible to them. This strategic delivery of positive feedback was noted as possibly designed to keep him placid and distracted from the actual testimony.
O'Donnell took a moment to note the seeming imbalance in judgment concerning the credibility of Michael Cohen, pointing out that regardless of the jury or defense’s views on Cohen, it was Trump who had not only chosen to hire him but also kept him close for a decade and even elevated him to a Republican Party ...
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Trump's conduct during the trial
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Clarifications
- Mark Levin and Andrew McCarthy are conservative commentators known for their support of Donald Trump. Their comments were being read by Trump during the trial, possibly to provide him with positive reinforcement and distraction from the ongoing proceedings. This strategic use of supportive feedback could have been aimed at influencing Trump's demeanor and focus during the trial.
- O'Donnell is not explicitly identified in the text, but based on common knowledge, it is possible that the reference is to Lawrence O'Donnell, a television host and political commentator known for his show "The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell" on MSNBC. In this context, O'Donnell may have been providing commentary or analysis on Trump's behavior during the trial.
- The "New York County Supreme Criminal" banner display ...
Counterarguments
- Trump's disengagement could be a defense mechanism to cope with the stress of the trial, rather than a sign of disrespect or lack of interest.
- Reading supportive messages during a trial could be a way for Trump to maintain his composure and confidence in a highly adversarial environment.
- The perception of Trump dozing off could be misleading; he may have been resting his eyes or deep in thought, which is not uncommon in prolonged proceedings.
- The strategic delivery of positive feedback could be seen as a legitimate part of a defense strategy to reinforce the defendant's morale.
- Hiring and keeping Michael Cohen close for a decade does not necessarily reflect on Trump's judgment if the alleged misconduct was unknown to him at the time of employment.
- The placement of Trump on t ...
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