Podcasts > Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News > Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

By Rachel Maddow

On this episode of Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News, testimony from Hope Hicks sheds light on Donald Trump's involvement in the hush money payments made to Stormy Daniels before the 2016 election. Hicks describes Trump's attempts to conceal the Access Hollywood tape and his reimbursement of Michael Cohen for the $130,000 payment. She also confirms Trump authored tweets admitting repayment, potentially strengthening the prosecution's case.

The summary delves into Hicks' struggle to balance loyalty and truth, highlighted by her emotional responses during testimony. Her decision to reveal details damaging to Trump's defense marks a pivotal moment and adds to evidence compiled by an astute paralegal scouring Trump's tweets for admissions that bolster the district attorney's case.

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Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

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Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

1-Page Summary

Trump's knowledge of hush money payments

Testimony from Hope Hicks reveals Trump's knowledge and involvement in hush money payments, with Hicks describing how Trump lied about the Access Hollywood tape and detailing how he reimbursed Michael Cohen for the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels.

Hicks' testimony, including her emotional response on the stand, is considered damaging to Trump's defense. The prosecution highlights her accounts as supporting their claims about Trump's intentions to preemptively address the payment before the election to avoid damaging his campaign.

Damaging evidence from Trump's tweets

An unheralded young paralegal compiles around 1,500 of Trump's tweets as evidence for the district attorney's case against Trump, including posts where Trump himself confirms repaying Cohen for the Stormy Daniels payment. Hicks confirms under oath that Trump authors or approves all his tweets, potentially increasing his culpability.

Hope Hicks wrestles with loyalty and truth

Despite her longtime loyalty to Trump dating back to his campaign, Hicks ultimately chooses truth over allegiance during her testimony. Her emotional display is seen as a sign of her internal struggle to balance fidelity to Trump with her legal oath.

Commentators note that while Hicks provides more subtle cooperation compared to Cassidy Hutchinson's blunt rebuke of Trump over January 6th, her decision to reveal damaging details marks her testimony as a pivotal moment in the trial.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The Access Hollywood tape is a recording from 2005 where Donald Trump, before becoming president, made lewd and offensive comments about women during a conversation with TV host Billy Bush. The tape surfaced during the 2016 presidential campaign, causing significant controversy and leading to public backlash against Trump. It became a focal point in discussions about Trump's character and treatment of women, impacting his campaign and public perception. The tape's release prompted Trump to issue an apology for his remarks, which he described as "locker room talk."
  • Stormy Daniels, whose real name is Stephanie Clifford, is an adult film actress who became involved in a legal dispute with former U.S. President Donald Trump in 2018. Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, paid $130,000 in hush money to Daniels to keep quiet about an alleged affair she had with Trump in 2006. This payment has been a focal point in legal proceedings and investigations related to Trump.

Counterarguments

  • The emotional nature of Hicks' testimony could be seen as subjective and not necessarily indicative of factual guilt or innocence.
  • The compilation of tweets, while extensive, may not conclusively prove intent or knowledge without additional context or corroborating evidence.
  • The act of authoring or approving tweets does not automatically equate to legal culpability, as the content and intent behind the tweets would need to be clearly established as unlawful.
  • The decision by Hicks to choose truth over loyalty, while commendable, does not in itself validate the truthfulness or accuracy of her testimony.
  • The impact of Hicks' testimony on the trial could be overstated by commentators, and its significance should be weighed against the entire body of evidence presented.
  • Comparisons between Hicks' testimony and that of Cassidy Hutchinson could be misleading, as each individual's experiences and perspectives are unique and may not be directly comparable.

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Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

Trump's knowledge of and involvement in hush money payments

The courtroom hears damaging testimony from Hope Hicks, with evidence suggesting President Donald Trump had not only knowledge of but also involvement in hush money payments.

Trump lies to Hope Hicks about Access Hollywood tape

In a pivotal moment, Hope Hicks testified that Trump lied directly to her about his vulgar comments caught on the Access Hollywood tape. When confronted, Trump told Hicks it didn't sound like something he would say, contradicting the evidence on the video.

Hope Hicks tells Trump campaign to "deny, deny, deny"

Following Trump's denial about the Access Hollywood tape, Hicks recommended a "deny, deny, deny" approach to the campaign’s response strategy. The commentary implies that Hicks knew of the tape and the dishonesty of the suggested approach, signifying her understanding of Trump’s methodology in managing detrimental information.

Hope Hicks confirms Trump's reimbursement of Cohen

Further in her testimony, Hicks illuminated the process of Trump’s reimbursement to his attorney Michael Cohen, who facilitated the $130,000 payment. This admission by Trump came under oath in the Stormy Daniels lawsuit.

Prosecution establishes Trump's intent regarding payments

Evidence of Trump's intentions concerning the hush money payments became clearer as Hicks testified. She narrated that Trump had gone through the mental calculus of the negative implications if the story broke before the election and had ultimately concluded that the issue regarding the payment to Stormy Daniels was better dealt with ...

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Trump's knowledge of and involvement in hush money payments

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The Access Hollywood tape incident involved a recording where Donald Trump made vulgar comments about women in 2005. This tape resurfaced during the 2016 presidential campaign, causing significant controversy. Hope Hicks' testimony highlighted Trump's attempt to deny his remarks on the tape, showcasing his approach to managing damaging information. This incident is crucial as it sheds light on Trump's honesty and handling of scandals during his political career.
  • Trump reimbursed his attorney Michael Cohen for the $130,000 payment made to Stormy Daniels. This reimbursement was confirmed by Hope Hicks during her testimony. The payment was part of the hush money agreement to keep Stormy Daniels' allegations about an affair with Trump quiet. The reimbursement process was a key aspect of the legal and ethical scrutiny surrounding the hush money payments.
  • Hope Hicks' testimony, particularly her revelations about Trump's knowledge and involvement in hush money paym ...

Counterarguments

  • The testimony of Hope Hicks is based on her personal recollections and interpretations, which could be subject to bias or misremembering.
  • Trump's denial about the Access Hollywood tape could be seen as an attempt to avoid further controversy rather than a deliberate lie, especially if he genuinely did not recall making those comments.
  • The "deny, deny, deny" strategy might be a common crisis management approach and not necessarily indicative of guilt.
  • Reimbursement of Cohen does not inherently prove wrongful intent; it could be interpreted as a legal and financial transaction without admission of the underlying allegations.
  • The establishment of intent is a complex legal matter and can be open to interpretation; the prosecution's narrative is not the only possible explanation for Trump's actions.
  • Makin ...

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Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

Damaging evidence from Trump's own tweets

Evidence from social media, particularly from Donald Trump's tweets, plays a critical role in the investigation led by a district attorney's office.

Staffer reads and saves ~1,500 Trump tweets as evidence

A young woman from the district attorney's office was tasked with a sweeping review of Donald Trump's social media activity as part of an investigation into his conduct. During this arduous process, she examined up to 10,000 social media posts by Trump and others. From this extensive collection, she has meticulously saved about 1,500 posts from platforms such as Instagram, Twitter, and Truth Social, which are now part of the evidence file the district attorney is compiling against Trump.

Hicks confirms Trump authors or approves all tweets

Increasing his culpability for content

Furthermore, the ...

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Damaging evidence from Trump's own tweets

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Truth Social is a social media platform created by Trump Media & Technology Group, owned by former U.S. president Donald Trump. It was launched as an alternative to mainstream platforms like Twitter and Facebook. The platform faced financial and regulatory challenges since its launch in February 2022. Truth Social uses Mastodon as its backend technology.
  • Michael Cohen is a former personal attorney for Donald Trump. He gained public attention for his involvement in facilitating a payment to adult film actress Stormy Daniels to keep quiet about an alleged affair with Trump. Cohen later pleaded guilty to multiple charges, including campaign finance violations and lying to Congress.
  • Stormy Daniels is an American adult film actress who became involved in a legal dispute with former U.S. President Donald Trump in 2018. Trump's attorney paid hush money to Daniels to keep quiet about an alleged affair she had with Trump in 2006. This controversy has led to legal implications for Trump, including facing felony charges related ...

Counterarguments

  • The volume of social media posts reviewed may not necessarily correlate with the strength or relevance of the evidence.
  • The process of selecting which tweets to save could be subjective and may not capture the full context of the conversations or events.
  • The confirmation by Hicks that Trump authors or approves all tweets does not inherently imply wrongdoing or legal culpability.
  • Tweets, while public statements, may not always be considered definitive evidence of intent or action without additional corroborating evidence.
  • The legal significance of Trump's tweets regarding the repaymen ...

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Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

Witness Hope Hicks

Longtime aide Hope Hicks showcased during her testimony a striking conflict between loyalty to Donald Trump and obedience to her oath of truthfulness, ultimately resulting in a forthright revelation potentially detrimental to the former president.

Longtime loyalty to Trump from campaign to White House

Describes him positively, inaccurately

Hope Hicks remained a steadfast supporter of Donald Trump, refusing to turn against him even after controversial instances like the release of the Access Hollywood tape, which shook many other Republicans into retracting their support. Throughout Trump's presidential term, Hicks refrained from pushing Trump to act during critical moments such as the Capitol attack.

Cries unexplained when questioned by defense

Hope Hicks’s loyalty was visibly underscored when she became emotional and cried during the cross-examination by Donald Trump's defense attorney. Hicks’s reaction, which came in response to benign questions about her resume, was unexplained publicly, as she did not divulge the reason for her tears in the record. Her emotional display hinted at the turmoil of balancing her allegiance to Trump with her legal duty to tell the truth.

Sought to balance loyalty and truth under oath

Commentators like Lawrence O'Donnell and Lisa Rubin noted that Hicks initially appeared to wrestle with her fidelity to Trump and her obligation to the truth. Her crying suggested a painful recognition of the implications of her testimony, which ultimately proved to be a decisive blow to the defense. Despite her ardent loyalty, and at the cost of personal emotional turmoil, Hicks placed truth above allegiance when under oath.

Ultimately chose truth, damaging Trump

Hicks’s candid testimony, which included reference to the reimbursement of Cohen and the hush money payments, was recognized as particularly harmful to Tr ...

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Witness Hope Hicks

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The Access Hollywood tape incident occurred during the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign when a recording surfaced of Donald Trump making lewd and offensive comments about women. In the tape, Trump was heard boasting about groping women without their consent. This revelation caused significant controversy and led to backlash against Trump, with many Republicans condemning his remarks. Despite the backlash, Trump downplayed the incident as "locker room talk."
  • Michael Cohen, a former lawyer for Donald Trump, was involved in making hush money payments to women who claimed to have had affairs with Trump. Cohen was later reimbursed for these payments by Trump or his as ...

Counterarguments

  • Hicks's emotional response during the cross-examination could be interpreted as a human reaction to stress rather than an indication of internal conflict between loyalty and truth.
  • The description of Hicks's loyalty as unwavering may overlook the complexity of human relationships and the possibility that her support for Trump could have been nuanced or conditional.
  • The assertion that Hicks refrained from pushing Trump to act during critical moments like the Capitol attack could be challenged by the argument that as an aide, her influence on presidential decisions may have been limited.
  • The claim that Hicks's testimony was particularly harmful to Trump could be countered by the perspective that the legal process requires a full examination of facts and that her testimony was simply part of the due process.
  • The comparison between Hicks and Hutchinson could be seen as an oversimplification, as each individual's circumstances and experiences differ, potentially leading to different forms of cooperation and truth-telling.
  • The idea that Hicks's ad ...

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Lawrence: ‘You get monsters like Donald Trump thanks to people like Hope Hicks’

Young paralegal's unheralded work

A young paralegal in the district attorney's office played a pivotal but unnoticed role in a high-profile legal case involving Donald Trump's social media activities.

Painstakingly gathers Trump's tweets as evidence

The young woman had been engaged in the Trump investigation for more than a year and a half. Her primary responsibility was to comb through thousands of Trump's social media posts, meticulously preserving those that were pertinent to the case.

Overcomes objections to establish process for admission

During the legal proceedings, Trump's criminal defense lawyers mounted objections to her testimony and the admission of social media posts as evidence. However, her testimony was technically flawless, overcoming these challenges. Her precise and detailed work convinced Judge Juan Marichan to overrule all objections raised by Trump's lawyers.

Enables prosecution to confr ...

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Young paralegal's unheralded work

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The high-profile legal case involving Donald Trump's social media activities revolves around the use of Trump's social media posts as evidence in a legal proceeding. The case focuses on how Trump's own words on social media were used against him in court. The paralegal's role was crucial in collecting and presenting these social media posts as evidence. The case highlights the significance of social media content in legal matters involving public figures like Donald Trump.
  • A paralegal in a district attorney's office typically assists lawyers by conducting legal research, organizing case files, drafting legal documents, and preparing for trials. They may also gather evidence, interview witnesses, and help with administrative tasks related to legal cases. Paralegals play a crucial role in supporting attorneys and ensuring the smooth operation of legal proceedings.
  • The Access Hollywood ...

Counterarguments

...

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