Podcasts > Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News > First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

By Rachel Maddow

In this episode of Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News, key developments unfold in the ongoing legal battles around Donald Trump. The podcast examines the growing evidence against Trump in the hush money trial, where a witness confirmed the payments were illegal campaign finance violations. It also delves into the Supreme Court's consideration of Trump's claims of presidential immunity, with justices questioning the implications for accountability.

The episode also sheds light on the latest charges related to Trump's fake electors plot, revealing coordinated efforts across multiple states to overturn the 2020 election results. Additionally, it explores the controversy surrounding Tennessee's new law allowing armed teachers in schools, despite opposition from educators and advocates for sensible gun control measures.

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First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

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First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

1-Page Summary

Donald Trump's Criminal Trial

The prosecution strengthened its case through key witness testimonies:

  • David Pecker revealed AMI's hush money payments to suppress Trump accusers were campaign finance violations.
  • Custodial witnesses authenticated evidence tracing money trails, supporting Cohen's testimony.

Supreme Court Considers Trump's Claims of Immunity

Justices Kagan and Jackson argued against immunity claims:

  • Kagan: Framers rejected monarch-like immunity for presidents.
  • Jackson: Oval Office could become a "seat of criminal activity" without accountability.

Fake Electors Plot

New charges in Arizona show coordination of election subversion:

  • Top Trump campaign and WH aides named unindicted conspirators.
  • Groups in 7 states falsely certified Trump wins through fraud and forgery.

Gun Control

Tennessee passed a controversial bill allowing armed teachers despite protests:

  • Republican lawmakers rejected Democrats' pleas for sensible gun laws.
  • Governor signed it over objections from teachers, parents, and Democrats.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • AMI stands for American Media, Inc., a media company known for publishing tabloid magazines like the National Enquirer. In the context of the text, David Pecker, a key figure in AMI, revealed hush money payments made by the company to suppress accusers of Donald Trump, which were considered campaign finance violations. AMI's involvement in these payments played a significant role in the legal proceedings related to Trump's criminal trial.
  • Hush money payments are sums of money given to individuals to keep them quiet about certain information, often to prevent the disclosure of embarrassing or damaging details. These payments are typically made to avoid legal consequences, public scrutiny, or reputational harm. They can involve non-disclosure agreements and may be considered illegal depending on the circumstances. The term "hush money" dates back to at least 1709, according to the Oxford English Dictionary.
  • The statement referring to the Oval Office as a "seat of criminal activity" suggests that without accountability, the highest office in the United States could potentially be used for illegal actions. Justices Kagan and Jackson were highlighting the importance of holding the President accountable to prevent abuse of power. This argument is part of a larger debate about the extent of immunity that the President should have in legal matters.
  • Election subversion involves various tactics to manipulate election outcomes, such as voter suppression, disinformation, and intimidation. In the context of the text, it specifically relates to coordinated efforts to undermine the integrity of the electoral process, potentially through fraudulent means. This can include actions like falsely certifying election results, forging documents, or engaging in activities that aim to disrupt the fair counting of votes. Such subversion can lead to challenges to the legitimacy of election results and can have significant implications for democracy and the rule of law.
  • An unindicted co-conspirator is a person or entity identified in an indictment as having participated in a conspiracy but has not been formally charged in the same legal action. Prosecutors may choose not to charge them for various reasons like immunity grants, practical considerations, or evidentiary concerns. This designation does not imply innocence and can be used strategically in legal proceedings. The individual or entity named as an unindicted co-conspirator may still face legal consequences in the future.
  • Tennessee passed a controversial bill allowing teachers to carry firearms in schools, sparking debates on school safety and gun control measures. This decision was met with opposition from various groups, including teachers, parents, and Democrats, who raised concerns about the potential risks and implications of having armed educators in educational settings. The bill's supporters argue that arming teachers could enhance school security and serve as a deterrent against potential threats. This move reflects ongoing discussions and disagreements surrounding gun laws and safety measures in educational environments.

Counterarguments

  • The hush money payments, while potentially a campaign finance violation, could be argued as a personal matter unrelated to the campaign, and thus not a violation.
  • The authentication of evidence by custodial witnesses does not necessarily prove the intent or the context behind the transactions, which could be crucial in a legal setting.
  • Presidential immunity is a complex legal issue, and some may argue that certain immunities are necessary to ensure a president can perform their duties without constant legal distraction.
  • The argument against monarch-like immunity does not necessarily address the nuances of executive privilege or the separation of powers outlined in the Constitution.
  • The concern about the Oval Office becoming a "seat of criminal activity" must be balanced against the risk of politicized legal actions against a sitting president.
  • The charges in Arizona regarding election subversion are allegations that would need to be proven in court, and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty applies.
  • Being named an unindicted conspirator does not equate to a conviction or proof of wrongdoing, and those named have the right to defend themselves against the allegations.
  • The certification of election results by groups in various states, while alleged to be fraudulent, would require substantial evidence to overturn, and the legal process must be respected.
  • The bill allowing armed teachers in Tennessee, though controversial, could be defended on the grounds of enhancing school security and deterring potential threats.
  • The rejection of what Democrats call "sensible gun laws" by Republican lawmakers could be based on differing views on the effectiveness of such laws or constitutional interpretations of the Second Amendment.
  • The governor's decision to sign the bill over objections could be seen as an exercise of their legislative judgment and authority, which may align with the views of their constituents.

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First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

Donald Trump's Criminal Trial

The trial against Donald Trump is underway, with significant witness testimonies to support the prosecution's claims of campaign finance violations.

Prosecution Buttresses Case with Witness Testimony

Pecker testifies hush money payments were campaign finance violations, unprecedented for AMI

During the trial, David Pecker, a key witness, withstood the defense’s claim that American Media Inc.’s (AMI) involvement in silencing stories was routine. Pecker’s testimony, delivered over the course of a week, has confirmed that the hush money payments indeed amounted to campaign finance violations, aligning with the non-prosecution agreement he entered with federal prosecutors in 2018. Under oath, Pecker admitted that he was aware even then of the impropriety of their actions. He also stressed that the 'catch and kill' tactic used with regards to Trump's accusers was an extraordinary measure, far beyond AMI's standard operating procedure.

David Pecker revealed that AMI's actions were not just about quashing stories but also about actively preventing scandals related to Trump from surfacing, particularly during his presidential campaign. The prosecution underscored that AMI had not previously operated as an organ to aid a presidential campaign nor worked to suppress accusers to elude campaign finance laws.

Further cementing the prosecution's case, Donald Trump’s former executive assistant, Rona Graf, took the stand to testify that she added contact information for Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal into the Trump organization's records, implying the organization's involvement in the hush money scheme.

Additionally, custodial witness Gary Farrow, a former manager at First Republic Bank, verified bank records tracing the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels. This money was channeled through a shell company and was associated with a home equity loan that Trump's former lawyer, Michael Cohen ...

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Donald Trump's Criminal Trial

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • American Media Inc. (AMI) was involved in silencing potentially damaging stories about individuals, such as Donald Trump, through a practice known as 'catch and kill.' This tactic involves purchasing the rights to a story with no intention of publishing it, effectively burying the information and preventing it from becoming public. AMI's involvement in such activities, particularly related to Trump's accusers, has raised legal questions about campaign finance violations and the manipulation of information for political purposes.
  • The $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels was routed through a shell company, which is a type of company that typically exists only on paper and has no significant assets or operations of its own. This method was used to obscure the true source of the payment and create a layer of separation between the payment and the individuals involved. Shell companies are often employed in financial transactions for purposes such as privacy, asset protection, or, in some cases, to conceal the true nature of the transaction. In this context, routing the payment through a shell company was a tactic to add a level of complexity and opacity to the financial trail, potentially making it harder to trace back to the ...

Counterarguments

  • The testimony of David Pecker may be challenged on the basis of bias or potential motives to protect himself, given his non-prosecution agreement with federal prosecutors.
  • The defense might argue that AMI's involvement in 'catch and kill' practices, while perhaps not routine, does not necessarily equate to a campaign finance violation without clear intent to influence an election.
  • The defense could question the credibility of Rona Graf's testimony, suggesting that adding contact information to records does not directly implicate the Trump organization in illegal activities.
  • The defense might argue that Gary Farrow's authentication of bank records does not prove that Donald Trump was personally involved in or aware of the specifics of the payment to Stormy Daniels.
  • The defense could assert that the custodial witnesses' testimonies and the documents they authenticate must be scrutinized for accuracy and relevance to the actual charges against Trump.
  • The defense might suggest that the narrative constructed by the prosecution is based on circumstantial evidence and does ...

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First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

Supreme Court Considers Trump's Claims of Immunity

The Supreme Court deliberates over former President Donald Trump's claims to sweeping immunity, a scenario fraught with historical and constitutional implications.

Justice Kagan and Jackson Argue Against Normalizing Extreme Presidential Powers

Two Justices of the Supreme Court, Elena Kagan and Ketanji Brown Jackson, present strong arguments against the notion of unchecked presidential power.

Kagan: Framers rejected monarch's immunity to be above the law

During the oral arguments, Justice Elena Kagan implied that the framers of the Constitution explicitly rejected the idea that a president could possess monarch-like immunity. Kagan argued that the president could not be immune from consequences for acts like staging a coup. She emphasized that the framers made a conscious decision not to include an immunity clause for the president, despite their knowledge of such clauses and the inclusion of legislative immunity. They were reacting against a monarch who was above the law, and they did not intend for the American president to hold that kind of absolute power.

Jackson: Oval Office could become "seat of criminal activity"

Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson expressed concerns about setting a dangerous precedent. If the president believed they could not be penalized for criminal behavior, there would be no deterrent in place to prevent the Oval Office from becoming "the seat of criminal activ ...

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Supreme Court Considers Trump's Claims of Immunity

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Former President Donald Trump has claimed immunity from legal actions related to his time in office. This claim is based on the idea that a sitting president is shielded from certain legal proceedings while in office. The Supreme Court is now considering the extent of this immunity and whether it applies to actions taken by a president while in office. The debate revolves around the balance between presidential power and accountability under the law.
  • The case discussions related to the January 6th events involve allegations that the events were orchestrated to create chaos and maintain Trump's hold on power. These discussions suggest a connection between Trump's actions and the events that unfolded on January 6th, raising questions about accountability and the extent of presidential immunity. The Supreme Court's consideration of these discussions highlights the legal and constitutional implications of presidential powers in the context of potential criminal behavior. The arguments presented in the case aim to address the complexities of presidential immunity and its limits in situations involving actions that could be deemed criminal or unconstitutional.
  • The potential delay of a verdict until after an upcoming election is significant because legal proceedings involving high-profile individuals, like former President Trump, can have political implications. Postponing a verdict until after an election could impact public opinion and potentially influence the electoral outcome. It raises concerns about the timing of legal decisions and their potential influence on political events. This delay could allow the legal process to play out without immediate resolution, potentially affecting the political landscape.
  • Justice Kagan argued that the framers of the Constitution rejected the idea of presidential immunity akin to a monarch's, emphasizing the need for accountability even for a president. Justice Jackson expressed concerns about the potential consequences of allowing unchecked presidential po ...

Counterarguments

  • The concept of presidential immunity is complex, and there may be valid legal arguments for certain immunities to ensure the executive branch can function without undue interference.
  • The framers of the Constitution may have intended for some degree of immunity to protect the president from frivolous lawsuits or politically motivated legal actions that could distract from their duties.
  • The idea of absolute immunity might be rejected, but a nuanced approach could recognize situations where limited immunity is appropriate to balance the need for accountability with the unique role of the presidency.
  • The Supreme Court's decision to hear the arguments could be interpreted not as a victory for any individual but as a necessary step in the judicial process to resolve important constitutional questions.
  • The reference to the January 6th events could be seen as an attempt to contextualize Trump's claims within recent historical events, but some might argue that each legal issue should be considered on its own merits, separate from broader political cont ...

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First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

Fake Electors Plot

New Charges in Arizona Show Coordination of Election Subversion

The segment highlights recently unveiled charges in Arizona that align with allegations of a coordinated attempt to subvert the 2020 election results, known as the fake electors plot.

Unindicted conspirator Trump involved along with top campaign and WH aides

There are new developments in legal cases stemming from former President Donald Trump's efforts to contest the 2020 election outcomes. In a sweeping action that suggests coordination, charges have been filed in Arizona against 11 individuals who participated as so-called fake electors, as well as key aides from Trump's campaign. These individuals are accused of conspiring to falsely certify that Trump won in battleground states.

Those indicted include prominent figures such as Mark Meadows, Rudy Giuliani, Boris Epstein, Mike Roman, Jenna Ellis, Christina Bobb, and John Eastman. Their alleged involvement ranges from orchestrating to executing plans that aimed to overturn the election results.

Battleground states had groups of fake electors falsely certify Trump's win

Arizona is identified as one of seven states where alternate electors were organized to sign false documentation, claiming Trump was the legitimate winner. The other states with similar ...

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Fake Electors Plot

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The fake electors plot involved a scheme by Donald Trump and his allies to submit fraudulent certificates in key states to falsely claim Trump's victory in the 2020 election. The goal was to convince Vice President Mike Pence to count these fake certificates during the electoral college certification process, potentially overturning Joe Biden's win. This plan was based on a fringe legal theory that suggested the Vice President could replace legitimate electors with alternate ones, changing the election outcome. The scheme aimed to undermine the election results through deceptive means and has led to legal actions against several individuals involved.
  • A coordinated attempt to subvert the 2020 election results refers to organized efforts to undermine the legitimacy of the election outcome through fraudulent means, such as submitting false certifications or manipulating electoral processes. This coordinated effort typically involves multiple individuals working together towards a common goal of overturning or discrediting the election results. It often includes activities like spreading misinformation, filing baseless legal challenges, or engaging in deceptive practices to cast doubt on the integrity of the electoral process. The goal is usually to influence the election outcome in favor of a particular candidate or to sow confusion and distrust in the electoral system.
  • "Unindicted conspirator Trump" is a term used to describe someone who is believed to have been involved in a conspiracy but has not been formally charged with a crime in relation to that conspiracy. In this context, it suggests that Donald Trump is suspected of being part of a coordinated effort to subvert the 2020 election results but has not been indicted for his alleged involvement. The term implies that Trump's role in the alleged conspiracy is under scrutiny but has not led to formal charges against him at the time of the publication.
  • Key aides from Trump's campaign are individuals who held significant roles within Donald Trump's election campaign team. They were closely involved in strategizing, coordinating, and executing various aspects of the campaign, including messaging, outreach, and legal efforts. These aides worked closely with Trump and played crucial roles in supporting his electoral objectives.
  • Fake electors falsely c ...

Counterarguments

  • The individuals charged maintain their innocence and argue that their actions were lawful expressions of political advocacy and dissent.
  • The concept of "fake electors" could be challenged as a mischaracterization, with the defense arguing that the electors believed they were part of a legitimate contingency plan in case court challenges to the election results were successful.
  • The term "unindicted conspirator" may be seen as prejudicial, implying guilt without a formal charge or conviction, and could be argued as an infringement on the presumption of innocence.
  • The involvement of top campaign and White House aides could be framed as them performing their professional duties to challenge election results, which they may argue is a standard part of the political process when election integrity is in question.
  • The legal strategy of the accused may include challenging the jurisdiction or the interpretation of the laws under which they have been charged.
  • The defense might argue that the charges are politically motivated and represent an attempt to criminalize political opposition.
  • It could be argued that the legal process should be allowed to unfold without public commentary that could influence potential jurors and the outcome of a fair trial.
  • Some may view the media coverage as biased and believ ...

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First week of testimony in Trump hush money trial wraps

Gun Control

Tennessee Passes Controversial Bill Allowing Teachers to Be Armed

In Tennessee, a bill allowing teachers to carry concealed guns has sparked intense debate and protests.

Republican lawmakers reject Democrat pleas for focus on sensible gun laws instead

Democratic legislators criticized the bill for being the first major piece of gun legislation since the Nashville Covenant mass shooting. They argued for progress on gun control, but Republican lawmakers passed the bill.

Governor signs law over objections from teachers, parents, and Democrats

Despite objections from teachers, parents, and Democrats, Governor Bill Lee signed the bill into law. He described it as providing "a valuable option" and local-level decision-making.

In the Tennessee legislature, vocal opposition to the idea of introducing more guns into schools led to protests in the galleries and subsequent removal of protesters by state troopers. Democrats criticized the bill, emphasizing the lack of sensible gun laws and noting that this bill, allowing armed teachers, is the response following the Nashville Covenant school shooting tragedy.

Parents like Jennifer Aprea have raised concerns over the authenticity of expecting teachers to act in defense during a crisis, pointing out that teachers are trained to shelter in place rather than confront threats. Aprea, along with Ali Velshi, discussed the natural protective instinct of teachers and the emotional difficulty in potentially having to shoot someone they know.

Amendments like parent notification of guns on campus and safe firearm storage were rejected. Williamson County Superintendent Jason Golden stated he would not authorize teachers or staff to be armed, reinforcing the importance of trained School Resource Officers.

Despite a stopgap measure allowing districts to arm teachers, given they have approval from school heads, superintendents, and the sheriff's office, families and educators showed a clear preference for common-sense gun legislation over arming educators. Statistics indicate that a significant majority ...

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Gun Control

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Parent notification of guns on campus and safe firearm storage are amendments that were proposed but ultimately rejected in the context of the bill allowing teachers to carry concealed guns in Tennessee. The proposed amendments would have required notifying parents if teachers were armed on campus and implementing regulations for safe storage of firearms in schools. These amendments aimed to address concerns about transparency and safety regarding the presence of guns in educational settings.
  • School Resource Officers (SROs) are sworn law enforcement officers assigned to schools to ensure safety and prevent crime. They work closely with school administrators and have powers similar to regular police officers. SROs also often take on additional roles such as mentoring students and educating them on youth-related issues. The concept of SROs originated in the United States in the 1950s as a community policing strategy to enhance relationships between law enforce ...

Counterarguments

  • Teachers with proper training and certification could potentially stop a threat and save lives before law enforcement arrives.
  • The presence of armed staff might deter potential attackers from targeting schools.
  • Local control allows individual school districts to decide what's best for their communities rather than a one-size-fits-all approach.
  • Some parents may feel more secure knowing that there is an armed presence on campus to protect their children.
  • The decision to arm teachers is a response to calls for schools to be better protected, and some see it as a practical measure in the absence of other solutions.
  • The bill does not mandate that all teachers carry guns; it allows for those who choose to be armed and meet certain criteria to do so.
  • The argument that the bill could exacerbate the teacher shortage is speculative; there may be teachers who support the measure and feel empowered by it.
  • The influence of organizations like the NRA on political parties is a common aspect of interest group politics, and support for gun rights is a legitimate political position held by many voters.
  • The bill's passage reflects the democratic process, where elected representatives act according to what they believe their constituents want.
  • The rejection of amendments such as parent notification ...

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