Podcasts > Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News > The Trump Indictments, read by Glenn Close and Liam Neeson

The Trump Indictments, read by Glenn Close and Liam Neeson

By Rachel Maddow

Dive deep into the intricate web of legal challenges facing Donald Trump in the latest installment of "Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News." The episode features the analytical prowess of Andrew Weissmann and Melissa Murray, who unravel the complexities surrounding the obstruction charges leveraged against the former President. They explore the contentious use of the First Amendment as a defense mechanism, highlighting Trump's argument that his speech rights are at stake amidst accusations of deliberately misleading the public and undermining the 2020 election's integrity.

With the gravitas of Glenn Close and Liam Neeson bringing the episode's narrative to life, listeners are presented with a thorough dissection of the alleged criminal actions tied to Trump. The discussion delves into the nuances of the indictment that includes hush money payments and the manipulation of business records—an alleged effort to influence the outcome of the 2016 Presidential election. Weissmann and Murray scrutinize the legal ramifications of these purported attempts to stifle competition, offering a detailed examination of the intersection between personal actions and public responsibilities.

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The Trump Indictments, read by Glenn Close and Liam Neeson

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The Trump Indictments, read by Glenn Close and Liam Neeson

1-Page Summary

Obstruction charges against Donald Trump and his First Amendment defenses

Donald Trump faces severe accusations in his indictment, centering on his attempts to overturn the 2020 election results. He utilizes the First Amendment as a shield, asserting that his speech rights are being unjustly targeted. Trump's strategies allegedly involved spreading deliberate falsehoods about voter fraud to undermine trust in the election outcome. The indictment delineates three criminal conspiracies related to fraud, the obstruction of Congress on January 6th, and the violation of voting rights. His post-election maneuvers, predominantly propagating these untruths, underpin the claimed conspiracy to reverse the authentic election results. Trump asserts that his actions constitute protected speech, but critics argue that the First Amendment doesn't shield activities that are part of illegal conduct.

Hush money payments and falsified business records

Donald Trump is implicated in a scheme to skew the 2016 Presidential election, where he is accused of hiding hush money payments through falsifying New York business records. The scheme aimed to silence two women who posed a threat to his candidacy by publicizing their alleged sexual encounters with him, in breach of election laws. Michael Cohen, his lawyer, utilized a company to facilitate a $130,000 payment to an adult actress, a payment that Cohen later confessed to being illegal. Trump is alleged to have reimbursed these expenses through his firm and personal accounts under the guise of legal fees. Evidence suggests that business records were manipulated to obfuscate these transactions, marking deliberate attempts to conceal the payments.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The obstruction charges against Donald Trump stem from his alleged actions to overturn the 2020 election results by spreading false claims of voter fraud. These charges include accusations of conspiracy to commit fraud, obstructing Congress on January 6th, and violating voting rights. Trump's defense revolves around asserting his actions as protected speech under the First Amendment, while critics argue that such speech does not shield illegal conduct.
  • The First Amendment protects freedom of speech, but it does not shield speech that is part of illegal conduct. Donald Trump is invoking the First Amendment to defend his actions related to spreading falsehoods about voter fraud. Critics argue that his speech crossed the line into illegal activities, such as conspiracy to commit fraud and obstruct Congress, which are not protected by the First Amendment. The key debate lies in determining whether Trump's speech was merely exercising his right to free expression or if it was a deliberate part of illegal actions.
  • The criminal conspiracies outlined in the indictment against Donald Trump include fraud related to spreading falsehoods about voter fraud, obstruction of Congress on January 6th, and violation of voting rights. These conspiracies are centered around Trump's alleged efforts to undermine trust in the 2020 election results and reverse the authentic outcome. Trump's defense relies on the First Amendment, claiming his actions constitute protected speech, while critics argue that the First Amendment does not shield illegal conduct.
  • Donald Trump's involvement in hush money payments during the 2016 Presidential election relates to efforts to silence individuals who could harm his campaign by disclosing alleged affairs. The payments were made to prevent damaging information from surfacing before the election, potentially influencing voters' perceptions of Trump. By concealing these payments through falsified business records, Trump and his associates sought to avoid negative publicity and legal repercussions that could impact his electoral prospects. The scheme aimed to protect Trump's image and electoral chances by keeping these allegations hidden from the public eye.
  • Michael Cohen, Donald Trump's former lawyer, played a key role in facilitating hush money payments to silence individuals who could harm Trump's reputation. Cohen used a company to make a $130,000 payment to an adult actress, Stormy Daniels, on Trump's behalf. This payment was intended to prevent Daniels from publicly discussing her alleged affair with Trump before the 2016 election. Cohen later admitted that the payment was illegal, implicating Trump in the scheme to conceal these payments.
  • The manipulation of business records to conceal transactions involves altering financial documents to hide or misrepresent the true nature of certain transactions. This can include falsifying invoices, receipts, or other records to make it appear as though the transactions were for legitimate business purposes. Such actions are typically undertaken to deceive authorities, stakeholders, or the public about the true flow of money within an organization. These manipulations can be illegal and are often used to cover up illicit activities or financial improprieties.

Counterarguments

  • The First Amendment protects free speech, and there is a legitimate debate over where the line is drawn between protected political speech and speech that incites illegal activity.
  • The concept of "deliberate falsehoods" can be subjective, and proving intent to deceive as part of a criminal conspiracy can be legally complex.
  • The legal standard for obstruction of Congress requires specific criteria to be met, and there may be arguments that Trump's actions did not meet these criteria.
  • The term "conspiracy" implies a level of coordination and intent that must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, which can be challenging.
  • The use of the First Amendment as a defense may be seen as a valid legal strategy that tests the boundaries of constitutional protections in the context of political discourse.
  • The accusations related to hush money payments involve complex legal questions about campaign finance laws and the definition of personal versus campaign-related expenses.
  • The legal concept of falsifying business records may hinge on the interpretation of what constitutes a legitimate business expense, which can be subject to different interpretations.
  • The role of Michael Cohen and his admissions may be scrutinized for consistency and reliability, especially if he acted independently or against Trump's direct knowledge or instructions.
  • The characterization of reimbursement as "legal fees" may be part of a broader legal strategy that was common practice and not necessarily intended to deceive.
  • The manipulation of business records, if it occurred, may be argued to have been for privacy or other non-criminal reasons rather than an attempt to obstruct justice.

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The Trump Indictments, read by Glenn Close and Liam Neeson

Obstruction charges against Donald Trump and his First Amendment defenses

The indictment against former President Donald Trump includes serious accusations of his post-election actions and strategies. However, Trump and his followers claim his First Amendment right to free speech in his defense.

Allegations in the DC indictment of obstruction, fraud, corruption, and interference

Trump faces multiple allegations in the indictment. He’s accused of spreading lies about voter fraud and a stolen election despite knowing these claims were false, which aimed to create mistrust and anger and erode public faith in the election administration.

Trump's post-election campaign to overturn the legitimate election results

The indictment states that Trump engaged in a campaign to overturn the 2020 election results using dishonesty, fraud, and deceit. It outlines that he pursued unlawful means to discount legitimate votes and subvert the election. Doing this, he was allegedly determined to remain in power despite losing the 2020 presidential election.

Methods and means used, including spreading knowing lies about voter fraud

Trump is accused of conspiring to impair, obstruct, and defeat the lawful function of the federal government through various means. The indictment alleges that he and co-conspirators used knowingly false claims of election fraud to fulfill their agenda. Trump is reported to have been notified repeatedly that his assertions were untrue, often by those best positioned to know the facts.

The indictment highlights three specific criminal conspiracies: one, to defraud the United States; two, to obstruct and impede the January 6th congressional proceeding; and three, against the right to vote. Trump’s post-election actions, dominated by the perpetuation of these lies, were seemingly central to the alleged conspiracy ...

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Obstruction charges against Donald Trump and his First Amendment defenses

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The First Amendment protects free speech, but it does not shield speech that directly incites unlawful actions or is integral to criminal conduct. While challenging election results is a form of protected speech, actively encouraging illegal behavior based on false claims may not be protected under the First Amendment. The indictment against Trump alleges that his actions went beyond permissible speech by promoting falsehoods that led to unlawful conduct. Legal experts argue that the First Amendment does not provide blanket immunity for speech that is intertwined with criminal activities.
  • Andrew Weissmann is a former federal prosecutor who was a key figure in the investigation led by Robert Mueller into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. In the context of the text, Weissmann i ...

Counterarguments

  • The First Amendment protects a wide range of speech, including controversial and unpopular opinions, and the threshold for criminalizing speech should be high to avoid infringing on constitutional rights.
  • The legal standard for proving obstruction of justice and fraud is stringent, and it requires showing that there was a clear intent to commit the crime, which can be challenging to establish beyond a reasonable doubt.
  • The term "knowingly false claims" implies a subjective understanding of truth, and proving that Trump had actual knowledge of the falsehoods, as opposed to a mistaken belief in their validity, may be difficult.
  • The concept of "encouraging lawless actions" can be nuanced, and there is a distinction between advocating for general discontent and directly inciting specific illegal acts.
  • The political context of the allegations may lead to concerns about selective prosecution or the use of legal tools for political purposes, which could undermine public trust in the justice system.
  • The defense of free speech is a fundamental aspect of the American legal system, and it is important to ensure that any limitations on speech, especially political speech, are narrowly tailored and necessary to achieve a compelling governmental interest.
  • The indictments may set a precedent that could potentially ...

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The Trump Indictments, read by Glenn Close and Liam Neeson

Hush money payments and falsified business records

Donald J. Trump is alleged to have orchestrated a scheme to influence the 2016 presidential election by falsifying New York business records to conceal hush money payments.

Allegations of Trump directing payments to silence stories from two women before 2016 election

Role of Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, in making illegal payments

From August 2015 to December 2017, Trump is accused of engaging in a scheme to suppress damaging information by silencing women who claimed sexual encounters with him, in violation of election laws. Weißmann touches on efforts to silence stories which are allegedly related to these payments.

One lawyer for the Trump Organization, identified as Michael Cohen, used a shell corporation to pay an adult film actress $130,000 to prevent her from discussing an encounter with Trump. This payment was routed through a Manhattan bank. Cohen later pleaded guilty to federal crimes involving illegal campaign contributions related to these dealings and served time in prison.

Allegations Trump later reimbursed the payments through his company

The narrative suggests that after the "Access Hollywood" tape's release raised concerns about Trump's viability as a candidate, especially among female voters, Woman 2 agreed to be paid $130,000 for her silence to prevent her story from emerging before the election.

Trump is accused of reimbursing Cohen for the payment using a series of monthly checks from the Donald J. Trump Revocable Trust after being elected president. Later payments came from Trump's personal account. These reimbursements were a ...

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Hush money payments and falsified business records

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The alleged scheme involved Donald J. Trump orchestrating hush money payments to silence women who claimed sexual encounters with him before the 2016 election. Trump's lawyer, Michael Cohen, used a shell corporation to pay $130,000 to an adult film actress to prevent her from discussing her encounter with Trump. Trump is accused of reimbursing Cohen for the payment through his company after the "Access Hollywood" tape's release raised concerns about his candidacy. The reimbursements were allegedly disguised as legal services under a non-existent retainer agreement in 2017.
  • Michael Cohen, a lawyer for the Trump Organization, used a shell corporation to pay $130,000 to an adult film actress to keep her from discussing an alleged encounter with Donald Trump. Cohen later pleaded guilty to federal crimes related to these payments, which were made to silence damaging information before the 2016 election. The payments were processed through a Manhattan bank and were part of a scheme to suppress stories that could harm Trump's reputation. Cohen's involvement in these illegal payments led to his conviction and imprisonment.
  • A shell corporation is a company that exists only on paper and has no significant assets or operations. It is often used to conduct financial transactions or hold assets for another entity while providing a layer of anonymity or legal protection. In this case, a shell corporation was allegedly used to facilitate the payment to an adult film actress in order to conceal the true source of the funds and the purpose of the transaction. This practice can make it difficult to trace the origin of the money and the individuals involved in the transaction.
  • The reimbursement process involved Trump allegedly repaying Cohen for the hush money payments made to silence women. These reimbursements were disguised as payments for legal services through a non-existent retainer agreement, aiming to conceal the true na ...

Counterarguments

  • The allegations of falsifying business records and orchestrating a scheme to influence the election are just that—allegations—and have not been proven in a court of law. Trump has the right to a fair trial and should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.
  • The payments made to the women could be interpreted as personal matters, unrelated to the campaign, and thus not subject to campaign finance laws.
  • The characterization of the payments as "hush money" is contested; they could be seen as settlements to avoid personal embarrassment and litigation, which is a common legal practice.
  • The use of nondisclosure agreements and settlements does not necessarily imply wrongdoing or an admission of guilt.
  • Michael Cohen's credibility as a witness may be questioned due to his own criminal convictions and potential motives to reduce his sentence or seek revenge.
  • The assertion that the payments were made to influence the election is speculative and assumes the intent behind the payments without definitive proof.
  • The claim that the reimbursements were disguised could be ...

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