Podcasts > Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News > Last Call for Immunity

Last Call for Immunity

By Rachel Maddow

In the latest installment of Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News, legal experts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord delve into the complex legal entanglements surrounding former President Donald Trump. As his attorneys push for a stay from the Supreme Court, the Department of Justice gears up to issue a critical response. The tension mounts with predictions about the Supreme Court's potential actions and their implications on presidential powers. Weissmann and McCord unpack the arguments that assert the risks of compromising presidential authority and the counterclaims of the DOJ, setting the scene for a historic decision.

Amidst these high stakes, the episode also examines the DOJ's efforts to amend a previous court decision in the Mar-a-Lago case. The focus is on the sensitive balance between transparency and the safety of witnesses, as the legal team argues for the protection of witness identities against the backdrop of potential threats. Furthermore, the podcast addresses the Georgia RICO case involving Fani Willis, with an upcoming hearing to scrutinize her alleged conflict of interest brought to light by defendant Michael Roman. The episode offers a riveting glimpse into the intricate judicial processes that could shape the trajectory of these significant legal battles.

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Last Call for Immunity

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Last Call for Immunity

1-Page Summary

Latest Updates on Trump's Request for Stay from Supreme Court

The legal battle around former President Donald Trump takes a new turn as his legal team requests a stay from the Supreme Court. The Department of Justice's response is imminent, with Special Counsel Jack Smith to reply by February 20th. Trump's attorneys stress the negative impact on presidential authority if immunity is not granted, warning of potential campaigns of extortion or blackmail. The Supreme Court could take various routes, including issuing a stay, rejecting the motion as frivolous, or opting to review the case more comprehensively. Legal experts are closely monitoring the situation, awaiting the Supreme Court's decision on handling Trump's request for a stay.

Motion for Reconsideration in Mar-a-Lago Case

The DOJ is challenging Judge Cannon's decision on redaction in the Mar-a-Lago case, focused on protecting witness safety and rectifying a legal error. They filed a motion against the disclosure of certain redacted information to safeguard witness identities and avoid compromising investigations. The DOJ emphasizes the threats and harassment risks to witnesses, some of whom may not be trial witnesses, and the disruption such disclosures could cause to ongoing investigations. They argue that the court applied an incorrect legal standard, using "compelling interest" instead of the appropriate "good cause" standard. The DOJ aims to convince Judge Cannon to revise her ruling based on these presented concerns, with a response from Trump's team due by February 23.

Fani Willis Conflict-of-Interest Case in Georgia

A hearing is scheduled for February 15th regarding a disqualification request filed against Fani Willis by Michael Roman, one of the defendants in her RICO case linked to the events of January 6th. The claim is that Willis had an inappropriate pre-existing relationship with special counsel Nathan Wade, influencing his appointment. Willis and Wade deny any conflict of interest, asserting that their relationship began only after his professional appointment and maintained financial independence. Nevertheless, the defendants argue for Willis's disqualification, backed by a witness ready to testify about the nature of Willis and Wade's prior relationship. The hearing will delve into the facts and analyze the legal implications of the alleged personal relationship, aiming to determine any potential conflict of interest and its effect on the case's integrity.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Former President Donald Trump is involved in legal battles where he is seeking immunity from certain legal actions. The Department of Justice is responding to these requests, emphasizing the potential impact on presidential authority. The cases involve issues such as redaction of information to protect witness safety and allegations of conflicts of interest. Legal experts are closely monitoring these cases as they unfold in the legal system.
  • "Good cause" is a legal standard that requires a party to provide a valid reason or justification for a particular action, such as withholding information in a court case. It typically involves demonstrating a legitimate need to protect sensitive information or individuals. On the other hand, "compelling interest" is a higher standard that necessitates a stronger justification, often related to significant public concerns or fundamental rights. In the context of legal proceedings, the distinction between these standards can impact decisions on issues like redaction of information or disclosure of sensitive details.
  • The decisions from the Supreme Court regarding Trump's request for a stay could impact the extent of presidential immunity and the ongoing legal challenges he faces. The motion for reconsideration in the Mar-a-Lago case focuses on protecting witness safety and the legal standards applied in redacting sensitive information. The conflict-of-interest case involving Fani Willis in Georgia may determine the integrity of the RICO case linked to the events of January 6th based on the alleged personal relationship between Willis and special counsel Nathan Wade.

Counterarguments

  • The Supreme Court's decision to grant a stay is not solely based on the potential negative impacts on presidential authority; it must also consider the legal merits of the case and the broader implications for the rule of law and separation of powers.
  • While Trump's legal team emphasizes the risks of not granting immunity, it is also important to consider that absolute immunity could potentially shield unlawful conduct from scrutiny, which could undermine the accountability mechanisms inherent in the legal system.
  • The DOJ's argument regarding the incorrect legal standard used by Judge Cannon in the Mar-a-Lago case could be seen as subjective, and the original decision may have been made with a different interpretation of the law that could be justified.
  • The motion filed by the DOJ to protect witness safety and ongoing investigations must be balanced against the public's right to transparency and the defense's right to access evidence in the Mar-a-Lago case.
  • The hearing on the disqualification request against Fani Willis may reveal complexities in the relationship between professional and personal interactions that could challenge the binary notion of conflict of interest.
  • The defendants' argument for Willis's disqualification in the Georgia case may raise valid concerns about impartiality, but it is also possible that the professional conduct of the parties involved has been appropriate and that the allegations do not substantiate a conflict of interest.

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Last Call for Immunity

Latest Updates on Trump's Request for Stay from Supreme Court

There are new developments in the legal challenges surrounding former President Donald Trump as his legal team and the Department of Justice engage with the Supreme Court over a request for a stay.

DOJ responded to request for stay filed February 13

After Donald Trump's legal team filed a motion to stay a mandate from the D.C. Circuit, which determined that a president is not immune from criminal prosecution, the Department of Justice (DOJ) is gearing up for a swift response. The D.C. Circuit had set a deadline for Trump to file this motion while he seeks a petition for Supreme Court review. Although no specific information about the DOJ's response was detailed, the Supreme Court has requested a response from Special Counsel Jack Smith to Trump's motion by February 20th. Expectations are set for an even quicker answer, with commentators like Andrew Weissmann suggesting Smith's response could be imminent, potentially arriving on the same day of the request.

Trump team argued extensive presidential consequences if immunity denied

Trump’s attorneys have laid out a case emphasizing dire consequences for presidential authority if immunity from criminal prosecution is not granted. They argue that indictments against sitting presidents may be used as political tools, leading to future campaigns of extortion or blackmail, which they believe will adversely influence presidential decision-making. Furthermore, they contend that the absence of immunity could irrevocably change the nature of the presidency. In their filings, they also suggested that denying a stay could infringe upon the First Amendment right of voters to choose Trump as a candidate.

Supreme Court has various options for handling request

With the request for a stay submitted, the Supreme Court is in a position to choose from several potential actions. They may allow for further development through an en banc review in t ...

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Latest Updates on Trump's Request for Stay from Supreme Court

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • A stay from the Supreme Court in relation to Trump's legal challenges means a temporary halt or suspension of a lower court's decision or action. In this case, it involves pausing the D.C. Circuit's ruling that a president is not immune from criminal prosecution while the Supreme Court reviews the case. The Supreme Court can decide to grant or deny the stay, which can impact the legal proceedings and the potential prosecution of former President Donald Trump. The decision on the stay could have significant implications for the ongoing legal battle and the broader understanding of presidential immunity from prosecution.
  • The D.C. Circuit's determination that a president is not immune from criminal prosecution means that they ruled that a sitting president can face criminal charges while in office. This decision challenges the notion of absolute immunity for the president from criminal prosecution. It clarifies that the president is subject to the same legal processes as any other individual regarding criminal matters. This ruling has significant implications for the legal accountability of the president while in office.
  • An en banc review in the D.C. Circuit involves all active judges of the court hearing a case together, rather than a smaller panel. This process is typically reserved for cases of exceptional importance or complexity. It allows for a broader range of perspectives and can lead to more comprehensive and authoritative decisions. The decision-making process in an en banc review can differ from that of a panel review, potentially impacting the outcome of the case.
  • A writ of certiorari is a legal order from a higher court to review a decision made by a lower court or government agency. It is commonly used in countries with legal systems based on English common law to ensure the correctness of legal proceedings. The term "certiorari" originates from Latin, meaning "to be made more certain," reflecting its purpose of seeking clarity and review in legal matters. This process allows the higher court to examine the lower court's record and decide whether to hear the case.
  • Justices penning opinions when rejecting a certiorari means that even if the Supreme Court decides not to hear a case, they may still provide explanations for their decision. This can help clarify the reasoning behind why the Court chose not to take up the case and can offer insights into the legal principles or considerations involved. It allows the Justices to explain their stance on the case without actually granting a full review, providing transparency in the decision-making process. These opinions can be significant in contentious or high-profile cases, offering valuable p ...

Counterarguments

  • The DOJ's response to Trump's motion for a stay is a procedural step and does not necessarily indicate the strength or weakness of the underlying legal arguments.
  • Special Counsel Jack Smith's deadline for response is standard procedure and does not imply any particular leaning or urgency from the Supreme Court.
  • The argument that denying immunity could lead to dire consequences for presidential authority is speculative and assumes that the legal system cannot adequately distinguish between legitimate and politically motivated prosecutions.
  • The suggestion that indictments could be used for political purposes overlooks the checks and balances in place, including judicial review, to prevent such abuse.
  • The claim that denying a stay could infringe upon voters' First Amendment rights assumes that a candidate's eligibility to run for office is contingent upon immunity from legal proceedings, which is not established in law.
  • The Supreme Court's multiple options for handling the request reflect the Court's discretion and established procedures, not necessarily an indication of the case's merits or importance.
  • The possibility of the Court dismissing the case or considering it frivolous is a standard outcome for many cases and does not reflect on this case's specific legal arguments.
  • Mary McCord's comment on the typical issuance or denial of a stay ...

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Last Call for Immunity

Motion for Reconsideration in Mar-a-Lago Case

The Department of Justice has filed a motion for reconsideration regarding Judge Cannon's decision on redaction in the Mar-a-Lago case, on the grounds of protecting witness safety and correcting a legal error.

DOJ's response to Cannon's redaction decision

The DOJ filed a motion in response to Judge Cannon's ruling, which demanded that certain redacted information be made public. The court had originally ruled that the government did not provide a sufficient reason for keeping witness names and other details redacted. However, the motion includes the Department's concerns and arguments for maintaining certain redactions, particularly to protect the identities of witnesses.

Disclosing names would risk safety of witnesses, disrupt investigations

Included with the motion is an under-seal attachment ex parte concerning a potential government witness who has already received death threats on social media and is under criminal investigation. The government has cited the safety risks to witnesses if their identities, which include former government and Trump organization employees, were disclosed. They argue that revealing the names could lead to threats, intimidation, harassment, and compromise ongoing investigations.

Additionally, Jack Smith, the prosecutor, pointed out in his motion that some individuals whose names might be disclosed might not even be witnesses at the trial, suggesting an unnecessary risk is being taken by revealing their identities.

The motion elaborates on the discretion used in handling sensitive documents. This includes the possibility of redacting names, identifying information, or irrelevant specific paragraphs, as well as using placeholders like "Country A" instead of real country names for classified inform ...

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Motion for Reconsideration in Mar-a-Lago Case

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • The legal standard of "compelling interest" typically requires a very high level of necessity or importance to justify an action. On the other hand, the standard of "good cause" is generally less stringent, requiring a reasonable or justifiable reason for a particular action. In legal contexts, the distinction between these standards can impact decisions on issues like redaction of sensitive information in court cases. The "compelling interest" standard sets a higher bar for justification compared to the "good cause" standard.
  • An under-seal attachment ex parte is a document submitted to the court for private review, typically without the involvement of the opposing party. It is used to present sensitive information that should not be disclosed to all parties involved in the case. This type of submission is often made to protect confidential or privileged details that could impact the fairness or safety of the legal proceedings. The court will consider the contents of the under-seal attachment ex parte before d ...

Counterarguments

  • The standard of "compelling interest" may have been appropriately applied if the court believed the public's right to know outweighed the potential risks to witnesses, suggesting a different interpretation of the law.
  • Redactions, while protective, could be seen as overly secretive and may undermine public trust in the transparency of legal proceedings.
  • The DOJ's concerns about witness safety, while valid, might be mitigated through other protective measures that do not involve redactions, such as increased security or anonymity protections.
  • The argument that some individuals might not be witnesses and thus should not be named could be countered by the principle of open justice, where the identities of those involved in legal proceedings are typically a matter of public record.
  • The use of placeholders like "Country A" could potentially lead to confusion or misinterpretation of the context and significance of the classified information.
  • The exp ...

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Last Call for Immunity

Fani Willis Conflict-of-Interest Case in Georgia

Hearing set for February 15 on disqualification request

Michael Roman, a defendant in Fani Willis's RICO case involving January 6th, filed a motion to disqualify her, alleging a conflict of interest due to an improper relationship with special counsel Nathan Wade. A hearing to address the disqualification is set for February 15th, with both Willis and Wade contesting the claims of any improper pre-existing relationship.

Dispute over relationship timeline between Willis and special prosecutor Wade

The conflict pivots on the timeline of the relationship between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade. Willis appointed Wade as special counsel, and the allegations suggest that Willis had a personal relationship with him before this appointment, during which Wade purportedly used money from his special counsel fees to fund trips with Willis. The defendants, including Mr. Trump, seized upon this allegation to join the motion for Willis's disqualification.

In response, Wade submitted an affidavit under oath attesting that their relationship blossomed only after his appointment and that they are financially independent, negating any suggestions of a conflict of interest. Willis has defended herself in a church setting and then filed a formal response denying any improper relationship with Wade prior to his role as special counsel.

An attorney for Roman contends they have a witness, formerly Wade’s law partner, ready to testify that Willis and Wade had a relationship and possibly even lived together before Wade's appointmen ...

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Fani Willis Conflict-of-Interest Case in Georgia

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Nathan Wade is a legal professional appointed by Fani Willis as special counsel in the RICO case. The role of a special counsel typically involves providing legal advice or handling specific legal matters within a case. In this context, Wade's appointment as special counsel is central to the conflict-of-interest allegations raised in the case. The dispute revolves around the timing and nature of the relationship between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade, with implications for the integrity of the legal proceedings.
  • The allegations of an improper relationship between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade revolve around claims that they had a personal connection before Wade was appointed as special counsel in the case. These allegations suggest that financial interactions occurred between them prior to Wade's official role, raising concerns about a potential conflict of interest. The dispute centers on the timeline of their relationship and whether it could have influenced their professional interactions in the legal case. The upcoming hearing aims to address these allegations and determine if there was any impropriety in their relationship that could impact the legal proceedings.
  • The dispute over the relationship timeline between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade revolves around the timing of their personal connection in relation to Wade's appointment as special counsel. Allegations suggest a pre-existing relationship that could impact the impartiality of the legal proceedings. The crux of the matter lies in determining whether any personal relationship between Willis and Wade existed before or after Wade was appointed to his role. This timeline discrepancy is crucial in assessing the validity of the conflict-of-interest claims raised by the defendants.
  • The term "cohabitating" typically implies living together in a domestic arrangement akin to a romantic partnership. In legal contexts, it can suggest a deeper level of personal involvement beyond mere friendship or professional collaboration. In the case context, the significance of whether Fani Willis and Nathan Wade were "cohabitating" before his appointment as special counsel could indicate a closer relationship that might raise concerns about potential conflicts of interest. The allegation of cohabitation could suggest a more intimate connection between the two parties, potentially influencing the perception of their professional interactions and decisions.
  • The legal ramifications of the alleged personal relationship between Fani Willis and Nathan Wade pertain to the potential conflict of interest it may create in the RICO case. A conflict of interest could arise if their relationship existed before Wade's appointment as special counsel, as it might compromise the imparti ...

Counterarguments

  • The motion to disqualify Fani Willis may be seen as a strategic move by the defense to delay proceedings or cast doubt on the prosecution's integrity, rather than a claim with substantial legal merit.
  • The timing of the relationship between Willis and Wade, even if proven to predate his appointment, may not necessarily constitute a legal conflict of interest if it can be shown that it does not affect the impartiality of the case.
  • Wade's affidavit, while under oath, could be challenged on the basis of bias or incomplete disclosure, but without concrete evidence, such challenges may not hold weight in court.
  • The denial of an improper relationship by Willis could be supported by evidence that demonstrates professional boundaries were maintained, which would undermine the allegations.
  • The testimony of a witness claiming knowledge of Willis and Wade's relationship may be subject to scrutiny regarding credibility, relevance, and potential bias.
  • The legal implications of the alleged relationship may be argued to be irrelevant if the defense can ...

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