Podcasts > Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News > Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

By Rachel Maddow

"Déjà News," hosted by the inquisitive Rachel Maddow, digs deep into the contentious debates and unparalleled events shaping American politics. In an episode featuring insights from heavyweights like Lawrence O'Donnell and former President Donald Trump, no stone is left unturned as they dissect the U.S.'s fluctuating stance on NATO and weigh President Biden's domestic accomplishments against his predecessor’s leadership.

With a broad guest list including Donald Trump, Lawrence O'Donnell, and legal experts such as Dan Goldman and Andrew Weissmann, this episode traverses a gamut of provocative topics. Discussions examine the intricacies of presidential health and decision-making capacity, shedding light on how articulation challenges, like Biden’s stutter, are sometimes misconstrued as cognitive decline. Moreover, the intricate details of Biden's document investigation are unravelled, clarifying why the case eluded the grand jury. "Déjà News" offers listeners a rigorous examination of the interplay between law, leadership, and legacies in the White House.

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Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

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Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

1-Page Summary

NATO Protection Stance

The NATO alliance has faced contrasting views from U.S. leaders. Reports allege that former President Donald Trump considered encouraging Russia to attack NATO allies who didn't meet financial commitments, potentially violating U.S. law and treaties that treat NATO obligations as legally binding. Conversely, the Biden campaign has affirmed a commitment to NATO's principles, criticizing Trump's stance and underscoring Biden's understanding of the alliance's legal and moral obligations.

Biden's Domestic Achievements

President Joe Biden has accomplished significant domestic achievements. Notably, he has passed numerous laws and has been a leading figure in crisis response, which includes tackling the aftermath of a pandemic and an economic downturn. Critics have favorably compared his legislative success and management of the country's challenges to that of President Franklin D. Roosevelt, accentuating Biden's leadership during the health and economic crises.

Presidential Age and Health

Discussion in the media has observed presidential age and health, drawing parallels with past presidents who worked through health issues, including Franklin D. Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower. Lawrence O'Donnell argues that the ability to make decisions is more crucial than constant cognitive acuity, highlighting that simple articulation errors don't necessarily reflect memory deficits. Challenges such as President Biden's lifelong stutter and the intense pressure of public speaking can impact articulation disproportionately, and should not lead to an assumption of cognitive decline.

Biden Document Investigation

The investigation into President Joe Biden's handling of classified documents found no prosecutable offenses. Andrew Weissmann pointed out that prosecution requires proof of willful mishandling, knowing the documents were present and classified. The special counsel's report mentioned "innocent explanations" for the documents found in Biden's possession. President Biden retained personal notes post-vice presidency, which is not customarily considered a prosecutable violation. The evidence did not demonstrate the knowledge, intent, or willfulness necessary for legal action, leading to the conclusion that the cases could not be brought before a grand jury.

1-Page Summary

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • As presidents age, concerns about their health and cognitive abilities arise. The ability to make sound decisions is considered more critical than perfect cognitive function. Factors like speech difficulties, such as President Biden's stutter, can affect articulation but may not indicate cognitive decline. Past presidents like Franklin D. Roosevelt and Dwight Eisenhower have shown that managing health issues while in office is possible.
  • The investigation into President Joe Biden's handling of classified documents found no prosecutable offenses. Prosecution requires proof of willful mishandling, knowing the documents were present and classified. The special counsel's report mentioned "innocent explanations" for the documents found in Biden's possession. President Biden retained personal notes post-vice presidency, which is not customarily considered a prosecutable violation.
  • To prosecute mishandling of classified documents, proof of willful mishandling is required, showing knowledge of the documents' presence and their classified status. The individual must have intentionally mishandled the documents, knowing they were classified. Innocent explanations or lack of clear intent can prevent prosecution in such cases. The evidence must demonstrate the necessary knowledge, intent, and willfulness for legal action to proceed.

Counterarguments

  • Former President Donald Trump's alleged consideration to encourage Russia to attack NATO allies could be interpreted as a negotiation tactic to pressure allies into meeting their financial commitments, rather than a serious intent to undermine NATO's collective defense principle.
  • While the Biden campaign may affirm a commitment to NATO's principles, some critics argue that actions speak louder than words and may point to specific policy decisions or military engagements as falling short of a full commitment to the alliance.
  • President Biden's legislative success and crisis management may be seen as significant, but some critics argue that the measures taken have not been effective enough in addressing the root causes of the economic downturn or that they have contributed to other issues such as national debt or inflation.
  • Comparing Biden's leadership to that of President Franklin D. Roosevelt could be seen as overstating Biden's achievements, given the historical context and scale of Roosevelt's New Deal during the Great Depression.
  • While decision-making is crucial for a president, some argue that cognitive acuity is also important for the role, and any signs of cognitive decline should be taken seriously and transparently addressed.
  • The investigation into Biden's handling of classified documents concluded with no prosecutable offenses, but critics may argue that the standards applied to different political figures regarding classified information should be consistent, and any mishandling, regardless of intent, should be scrutinized.
  • The mention of "innocent explanations" in the special counsel's report does not necessarily eliminate concerns about the proper handling of sensitive information, and some may argue for stricter controls and accountability for all government officials, including the president.

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Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

NATO Protection Stance

The NATO alliance, a cornerstone of global security, has been brought into the spotlight through contrasting statements and positions from U.S. leaders, from remarks considered reckless to a competent understanding of the alliance's importance.

Trump's reckless and illegal NATO statement

O'Donnell sheds light on a concerning report regarding former President Donald Trump's remarks about the NATO alliance.

Encouraging Russia to attack

Trump is reported to have openly suggested that he might encourage Russia to attack if a NATO member country failed to meet its financial obligations to the alliance.

Violating U.S. law and treaties

O'Donnell points out that Trump's statements about not protecting certain NATO countries and indicating that he would be comfortable with President Vladimir Putin attacking any NATO country he chose, in fact, imply a violation of U.S. law. NATO treaties are considered the law of the land in the United States, and any prior president would have faced severe consequences for suggesting a deli ...

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NATO Protection Stance

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Trump reportedly suggested that he might encourage Russia to attack a NATO member country if it failed to meet its financial obligations to the alliance. This implied a violation of U.S. law and the NATO treaties, which are considered legally binding in the United States. Such statements raised concerns about the former President's commitment to upholding the obligations of the NATO alliance. Biden's campaign, on the other hand, emphasized the importance of respecting NATO's founding principles and criticized Trump for potentially endangering U.S. allies and democratic nations.
  • The NATO treaties are legally binding agreements that the U.S. has ratified, making them part of U.S. law. Violating these treaties, such as by suggesting not protecting certain NATO countries, would go against the legal obligations the U.S. has committed to within the alliance. Any actions that undermine these agreements could have serious legal and diplomatic consequences for the U.S. and its standing within NATO.
  • The legal commitments of the United States towards NATO are primarily outlined in the NATO treaty, which is considered a binding agreement that obligates member countries to come to each other's defense in case of an attack. This commitment is enshrined in Article 5 of the NATO treaty, which states that an attack on one member is considered an attack on all members. The moral commitment of the United States towards NATO stems from shared values of democracy, individual liberty, and the rule of law, which are fundamental principles that the alliance aims to uphold and protect. Upholding these legal and moral commitments is crucial for maintaining the credibili ...

Counterarguments

  • Trump's approach to NATO may have been intended to encourage greater financial responsibility among member nations, emphasizing the importance of meeting agreed-upon defense spending targets.
  • The interpretation of Trump's statements as a violation of U.S. law could be debated, as the President has significant discretion in foreign policy and defense matters, which could include negotiating terms of collective defense.
  • Criticisms of Trump's NATO stance may overlook the broader context of his foreign policy, which could include leveraging unconventional rhetoric for strategic negotiations.
  • Biden's emphasis on adherence to NATO's founding principles might be critiqued for potentially lacking flexibility in responding to the changing ...

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Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

Biden's Domestic Achievements

President Joe Biden has been credited with substantial domestic accomplishments, reflecting his lead in crisis response and policy-making in recent times.

Passing laws and leading crisis response

Snyder commends Biden for his legislative achievements, stating that Biden has passed more laws and done more for domestic survival following a pandemic and economic crisis than any president since Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR). This suggests a breadth of policy change and leadership aimed at navigating the country through a period of significant challenge and uncertainty.

Economic and pandemic recovery

Snyder goes further to acclaim Biden for his management in times of conflict, assertin ...

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Biden's Domestic Achievements

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • President Biden's legislative achievements are highlighted for their significance in addressing the challenges faced by the nation, particularly in response to the pandemic and economic crisis. The comparison to FDR underscores the scale of Biden's efforts in enacting laws and guiding the country through turbulent times. The emphasis is on Biden's leadership in navigating the country through a period of crisis, rather than detailing specific laws passed. The focus is on the broader impact and effectiveness of Biden's governance during times of conflict and uncertainty.
  • President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) is often revered for his leadership during the Great Depression and World War I ...

Counterarguments

  • The number of laws passed is not always indicative of the quality or effectiveness of those laws.
  • Some critics argue that the recovery from the pandemic and economic crisis could have been faster or more robust under different policies or leadership.
  • There is debate over the extent to which Biden's leadership alone is responsible for any successes in managing the country's crises, as these efforts often involve many stakeholders, including Congress, state governments, and international partners.
  • The comparison to FDR's leadership during wartime may not be entirely appropriate, as the nature of conflict and the role of the United States on the world stage have changed significantly since World War II.
  • Some may argue that certain policies have had unintended negative consequences or have not adequately addressed the needs of all Americans.
  • There is a perspect ...

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Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

Presidential Age and Health

The discussion focuses on how historical presidents managed their roles despite health issues, and questions the current media's preoccupation with age and cognitive function in leaders.

Examples of great presidents who had health issues

FDR and Eisenhower's reelections

Lawrence O'Donnell notes that despite Franklin Delano Roosevelt's declining health, exemplified by falling asleep mid-signature, he was better at the presidency than any of his Republican challengers. Roosevelt, who died at 63, appeared frail and aged, but his capacity to make decisions effectively remained unimpaired through his healthiest days in office.

Assumptions about age and cognitive function

Incorrect perspectives on memory

O'Donnell criticizes the focus on the president's age and cognitive function, arguing that effective leadership hinges on the ability to make decisions, not on being perpetually cognitively sharp. Charan Ranganath clarifies that simple articulation errors, such as when President Biden mistakenly said "Mexico" instead of "Egypt," are not indicative of memory deficits but rather challenges in articulation. He explains that Biden, who has had a lifelong stutter, faces issues delivering information at the right moment, not with losing memories.

Pressure and articulation challenges

Ranganath and O'Donnell also address the pressure that can accompany speaking to millions on ...

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Presidential Age and Health

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Charan Ranganath is a cognitive neuroscientist known for his research on memory and brain function. In the context of the discussion, Ranganath provides insights into how memory and articulation challenges can be influenced by factors like stress and aging. His expertise adds a scientific perspective to the debate on age and cognitive function in leaders.
  • Articulation challenges, such as difficulty finding the right words or making speech errors, are not necessarily indicative of memory deficits. Memory deficits involve problems with recalling or retaining information, which is distinct from the ability to articulate thoughts clearly. In the context of leadership or public speaking, challenges in articulation can be influenced by factors like stress, age-related changes in brain efficiency, or speech impediments, rather than being solely linked to memory issues. It's important to differentiate between articulation challenges and memory deficits when assessing cognitive abilities, as they involve different cognitive processes.
  • Stress can affect word choice and articulation by making it harder to find the right words quickly. This challenge can be more pronounced in high-stress situations like speaking to a large audience or handling press questions. As individuals age, the frontal cortex's efficiency may decrease, potentially slowing down the process of finding and delivering words accurately. Stress can impact individuals of any age, but it may be more noticeable in older individuals due to age-related changes in cognitive processing.
  • The frontal cortex plays a crucial role in word retrieval by helping to organize and retrieve words from memory. As we age, the frontal cortex may become less efficient, leading to challenges in finding the right words quickly. This can be particularly noticeable in high-stress situations, such as public speaking or fielding questions, where word retrieval may be slower or more difficult. Difficulties in word retrieval can impact articulation and may contribute to occasional lapses in speech, especially under pressure.
  • The comparison to seasoned actors forgetting lines highlights that memory lapses or ...

Counterarguments

  • While decision-making capacity is crucial, cognitive sharpness can affect the quality and speed of those decisions.
  • Articulation errors, while not definitive indicators of cognitive decline, can sometimes be symptomatic of underlying issues that merit attention.
  • The stress of the presidency is constant, and if a leader's ability to communicate effectively under pressure diminishes, it could have implications for their leadership.
  • Aging can affect various cognitive functions, and it is reasonable to consider how this might impact the responsibilities of a high-stakes role like the presidency.
  • Public scrutiny of a president's words is part of the accountability expected in a democratic society, and while it can be excessive, it is not always unwarranted.
  • While lapses ...

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Lawrence: Biden on his worst day is better than Trump on his best day

Biden Document Investigation

Andrew Weissmann and O'Donnell discuss the outcome of the investigation into President Biden's handling of classified documents.

Requirements for prosecution

Weissmann clarifies that the investigation found no prosecutable case against President Biden. He outlines that for a crime to exist, it’s not sufficient just for classified documents to be in the wrong location; there must be evidence that the person knew the documents were there and that they were classified as containing national defense information. Prosecution also requires proof that the individual knew it was wrong to have those documents in their possession and acted willfully.

"Innocent explanations"

O'Donnell points out that the special counsel's investigation noted President Biden retained classified materials—specifically his own handwritten notes—after his vice presidency. The Justice Department reportedly hasn't considered prosecuting anyone for keeping private notes after leaving office, as this has historically not been viewed as a violation warranting prosecution.

Further, every other classified document found in searches of President Biden's home and office reportedly has "an innocent explanation," according to the special coun ...

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Biden Document Investigation

Additional Materials

Clarifications

  • Andrew Weissmann is a former federal prosecutor who served as a key figure in the Special Counsel investigation led by Robert Mueller into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. O'Donnell, on the other hand, is not explicitly identified in the text, but based on common naming conventions, could be a legal expert, journalist, or another individual involved in discussing the investigation into President Biden's handling of classified documents.
  • The legal standards for prosecuting someone for mishandling classified documents require evidence that the individual knowingly possessed the documents and understood their classified nature. Prosecution also necessitates proof that the person willfully retained the documents despite knowing it was wrong. Merely having classified documents in the wrong place is not enough for prosecution; intent and awareness of the documents' classified status are crucial factors.
  • A grand jury is a group of citizens convened to review evidence presented by prosecutors to determine if there is enough evidence to bring ...

Counterarguments

  • The threshold for prosecution may be too high, potentially allowing individuals to escape accountability due to the difficulty in proving intent or knowledge.
  • The historical lack of prosecution for retaining private notes may not be a sufficient justification; past practices might not reflect the best approach to handling classified information.
  • The term "innocent explanations" is subjective and could be seen as a way to downplay the seriousness of mishandling classified documents.
  • The absence of evidence of knowledge or willfulness does not necessarily mean it did not exist, only that it could not be proven to the standard required for prosecution.
  • The decision not to prosecute could be perceived as a reflection of unequal tre ...

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