Lawrence: Trump immunity appeal shattered by judge Trump doesn't believe should be a citizen
Join the riveting exploration of presidential power and legal boundaries with "Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News." In this episode featuring legal authorities like Florence Pan, Glenn Kirschner, and Lawrence Tribe, delve into the complexities surrounding former President Donald Trump's presidential immunity claims. Challenging the assertion of unchecked executive privilege, the esteemed guests dissect Trump's shaky defense and its potential ramifications on the rule of law. Judges critically scrutinize the "Impeachment First Rule," dismantling the notion that a sitting president could evade legal prosecution without impeachment. Learn why legal experts like Kirschner and Pierce warn against interpretations that could dangerously immunize presidents from accountability for grave offenses.
Beyond the courtroom, political analyst Simon Rosenberg and host Lawrence O'Donnell examine the political landscape shaped by Trump's litigious past. As Trump maneuvers through a minefield of accusations ranging from insurrection to fraud, the show dissects how these charges tarnish his public image and presidential campaign. With fresh poll insights and talk of Biden's rising momentum, the episode paints a picture of a looming electoral struggle for Trump against an increasingly solid opposition. Engage with the heavy-hitting panel, which debates how Trump's notorious unpredictability might be crippling his bid for a 2024 comeback, in a discourse that unearths the inner dynamics of political survival and downfall.
This is a preview of the Shortform summary of the Jan 10, 2024 episode of the Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News
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1-Page Summary
Donald Trump's flawed presidential immunity argument
Legal experts have challenged former President Donald Trump's claim of having absolute immunity from criminal prosecution, barring impeachment and conviction. Judges like Ketanji Brown Jackson have found the defense unable to substantiate such claims. The attempt to draw a distinction between Trump and Nixon’s situation did not convince the judges, who questioned the lack of constitutional support for Trump's "Impeachment First Rule" argument. Jurists dismissed the notion that a president needs to be impeached before facing prosecution, with Judge Pan questioning a hypothetical where a president could order an assassination and escape prosecution due to the lack of impeachment. Trump’s attorney inadvertently supported a problematic interpretation of broad presidential immunity, which legal commentators like Kirschner and Pierce suggest would unjustly grant presidents the ability to commit unchecked crimes, including assassinations or sellings pardons, while in office. Lawrence Tribe criticized this perspective for effectively offering unlimited power to a sitting president and turning citizens into subjects.
Future political and legal jeopardy facing Trump
Donald Trump faces numerous political and legal challenges that could impact his future endeavors. O'Donnell describes Trump as exhibiting behaviors characteristic of a fearful criminal defendant, which stands in stark contrast to his previous public persona. Simon Rosenberg highlights previous court findings against Trump, including serious accusations such as insurrection, sexual assault, and fraud, and suggests that such revelations dampen Trump’s electoral prospects.
Trump’s current campaign for the 2024 presidential election against Joe Biden appears weakened, as polls such as New Hampshire’s predict a defeat for Trump by an eight-point margin. In the Republican presidential primary, despite leading in New Hampshire, Trump’s support shows signs of waning when voters consider his alleged crimes. Biden's campaign, conversely, seems to be gaining traction with well-received events and speeches, causing a modest but potentially significant surge in his polls. Rosenberg notes Trump's decline in support due to his controversial positions and erratic behavior, inferring that these could harm his campaigning efforts, worsening his chances in the upcoming election.
1-Page Summary
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- The "Impeachment First Rule" argument suggests that a sitting president must be impeached before facing criminal prosecution. This argument was challenged in the context of former President Donald Trump's legal defense. Critics argue that this interpretation could grant presidents unchecked power and immunity from criminal prosecution while in office.
- Broad presidential immunity is the concept that a sitting president should have significant protection from legal prosecution while in office. This immunity could potentially shield a president from facing criminal charges for actions taken during their term. Critics argue that granting such extensive immunity could allow a president to engage in unlawful activities without fear of legal consequences, undermining the principles of accountability and the rule of law. The debate over the extent of presidential immunity often revolves around balancing the need for a president to perform their duties effectively with the necessity of upholding legal standards and ensuring accountability.
- Lawrence Tribe criticized the perspective that broad presidential immunity would grant unchecked power to a sitting president, allowing them to commit crimes without consequences. He argued that such immunity effectively turns citizens into subjects by offering unlimited power to the president. Tribe's criticism highlights the dangers of interpreting immunity in a way that could potentially undermine the rule of law and democratic principles.
- Trump's behaviors as a fearful criminal defendant suggest that he is displaying characteristics commonly seen in individuals facing serious legal challenges. This could include heightened anxiety, defensive posturing, and a shift in public demeanor from his usual confident stance. These behaviors may indicate that Trump is feeling the pressure and uncertainty associated with potential legal consequences, leading to a more cautious and defensive approach in his public actions and statements.
- The accusations against Trump, including insurrection, sexual assault, and fraud, could significantly impact his electoral prospects by dampening his public image and support. These serious allegations may erode trust in Trump's character and credibility, potentially leading to a decline in voter support and affecting his chances in the upcoming election. The negative perception resulting from these accusations could weaken Trump's campaign efforts and make it challenging for him to secure electoral victories. The public's response to these accusations may influence voter decisions and contribute to shaping the outcome of the election.
- In the context of the text, polls predicting defeat for Trump by an eight-point margin against Joe Biden indicate that in hypothetical matchups or surveys conducted among voters, Biden is projected to win over Trump by a significant margin of eight percentage points. This suggests that, according to the polling data mentioned, Biden is currently perceived to have a lead over Trump in terms of public support or approval ratings. The eight-point margin signifies the difference in support levels between the two candidates as indicated by the polling results. This polling data serves as an indicator of the potential electoral outcome if an election were to be held at the time of the survey.
- Trump's support waning in the Republican presidential primary indicates a decrease in the level of backing he is receiving from Republican voters compared to earlier stages of the campaign. This decline in support could be attributed to various factors such as controversies, legal challenges, or changing public perceptions of Trump. It suggests that his standing within the Republican Party may be weakening, potentially impacting his chances in the primary election against other Republican candidates. This shift in support could influence the overall dynamics of the primary race and the eventual outcome.
Counterarguments
- Legal experts may argue that the concept of presidential immunity, while not absolute, is rooted in the need to ensure that a sitting president can perform their duties without the distraction of litigation, and that this principle is not without merit.
- Some may contend that the comparison between Trump and Nixon is not entirely appropriate, as each case has its unique circumstances and legal questions.
- It could be argued that the "Impeachment First Rule" is a matter of legal interpretation and that there is room for debate on the constitutional mechanisms for addressing presidential misconduct.
- Supporters of Trump might assert that his attorney's arguments are intended to protect the office of the presidency rather than to endorse unchecked criminal activity by a president.
- There may be constitutional scholars who believe that certain protections for a sitting president are necessary to maintain the balance of powers and the functioning of the executive branch.
- Regarding the political and legal challenges, some might argue that the court of public opinion is not the same as a court of law, and Trump should be presumed innocent until proven guilty in a legal setting.
- Trump's behaviors could be interpreted by his supporters as those of a person who is aggressively fighting against what they perceive as unfair attacks rather than as behaviors characteristic of a fearful criminal defendant.
- Some may argue that despite previous court findings and accusations, Trump maintains a strong and loyal base of support that could prove resilient in the face of political and legal challenges.
- Polls can be volatile and may not accurately reflect the outcome of an election, especially this far in advance, so Trump's electoral prospects could improve over time.
- It could be suggested that Trump's controversial positions and erratic behavior have in the past been seen by some voters as a break from traditional politics, which could potentially appeal to certain segments of the electorate.
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Donald Trump's flawed presidential immunity argument
Legal experts analyze the vulnerabilities in former President Donald Trump's argument that he has absolute immunity from criminal prosecution unless first impeached.
Legal weaknesses in Trump's immunity claim
Trump lawyer unable to counter judges' questioning
The article highlights the failure of Donald Trump's legal team to effectively defend his claim of presidential immunity in court. Lawrence Tribe discusses how Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson and other judges rejected the idea of absolute immunity unless a president is impeached. O'Donnell underscores the defense's collapse, as Trump’s lawyer struggled to respond to the judges' pointed queries.
Judge Florence Pan notably challenged Trump’s lawyer, who was unable to affirmatively answer whether a president could ever be prosecuted without prior impeachment. O'Donnell further states that Trump's lawyer seemed unprepared, even willing to stop arguing due to the lack of material to support their case.
Weissmann observes that the judges did not entertain Trump’s immunity argument, and there was limited inquiry into it because the idea appeared baseless. When pressed on the precedent set by President Nixon’s investigation, Trump’s lawyer fumbled, trying to differentiate Nixon’s actions as merely private conduct.
Furthermore, Judge Michelle Childs interrupted Trump's lawyer, John Sauer, to clarify that nothing in the Constitution supports that a president can only face prosecution after being impeached and convicted. Judge Pan dissected the assertion that a president must face impeachment before being criminologically pursued, and emphasized the significance of the Impeachment Judgment Clause and whether it contains an "Impeachment First Rule."
Judges reject premise of requiring impeachment before prosecution
Kirschner deems it absurd to think that prosecution of a president for in-office crimes hinges on Congressional impeachment and Senate conviction.
Argument implies presidents have unlimited power while in office
Judge Pan presented a hypothetical scenario where a president orders an assassination of a political rival and questioned whether criminal prosecution is possible without impeachment. Trump's attorney appeared to endorse broad presidential immunity, suggesting that without impeachment and conviction, a president would not face criminal accountability.
O'Donnell recalls that Trump's lawyer even suggested a re-elected Trump could authorize an assassination ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Donald Trump's flawed presidential immunity argument
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Presidential immunity is the idea that a sitting president is shielded from certain legal actions while in office. This immunity is not absolute and does not protect the president from all legal consequences. The Impeachment Judgment Clause in the U.S. Constitution outlines the process for impeaching and removing a president from office for "high crimes and misdemeanors." It does not explicitly state that a president must be impeached before facing criminal prosecution.
- Requiring impeachment before prosecution for a president implies that criminal accountability for in-office actions would depend on Congress initiating impeachment proceedings and the Senate convicting the president. This process could potentially grant a president immunity from criminal prosecution unless impeached and convicted, allowing them to escape legal consequences for their actions while in office. It raises concerns about the extent of a president's power and the potential for abuse if criminal accountability is tied solely to the impeachment process.
- Granting unconditional immunity for crimes committed in office could lead to a situation where a president could potentially abuse their power without fear of leg ...
Counterarguments
- The concept of presidential immunity is rooted in the separation of powers, which could be argued as necessary to ensure the executive branch can operate without undue influence or interference from the judiciary.
- The argument for immunity might be based on the idea that the executive branch has unique functions and responsibilities that require a certain degree of protection to ensure national stability and security.
- The impeachment process is a constitutional mechanism for addressing presidential misconduct, and some may argue it is the appropriate avenue for dealing with alleged crimes by a sitting president.
- The notion of absolute immunity could be seen as a way to prevent frivolous or politically motivated charges against a president, which could otherwise paralyze the functioning of the executive branch.
- Some legal scholars might argue that the text of the Constitution is open to interpretation, and there may be legitimate grounds to argue for a form of temporary immunity while a president is in office.
- The argument that a president could face criminal charges after leaving office might serve as a deterrent against misconduct, without the need to prosecute while they are still in office.
- The idea that a president could be prosecuted after leaving office, rather than during their term ...
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Future political and legal jeopardy facing Trump
O'Donnell and Simon Rosenberg analyze the future political and legal challenges Donald Trump could face, pointing out his apparent weaknesses and diving into his current political standing.
Trump displaying weakness and fear as a defendant
According to O'Donnell, Trump's behavior in legal proceedings—which includes avoiding the media, appearing dispirited, and displaying fear while speaking at a microphone—suggests that he is experiencing the same fear typical of criminal defendants. Rosenberg amplifies this argument by outlining previous court findings against Trump, such as insurrection against the United States, sexual assault, and massive fraud. He insists that publicizing these facts could severely harm Trump’s chances of winning an election.
Poor polling and campaign outlook against Biden in 2024
The Boston Globe poll indicates that Joe Biden would beat Donald Trump in New Hampshire by an eight-point margin if the presidential election were held now, which echoes the margin by which Biden previously won against Trump. Moreover, Simon Rosenberg notes that since Thanksgiving, a majority of the independent polls have shown Biden either tied with or ahead of Trump, painting an optimistic picture of the Democratic outlook for 2024.
In the Republican presidential primary in New Hampshire, Trump is leading with 46 percent, followed by Nikki Haley with 27 percent, and then Chris Christie and Ron DeSantis trailing with 12 and 8 percent, respectively. Nonetheless, Rosenberg suggests that polls indicate a drop in support for Trump when voters consider his alleged crimes.
Rosenberg observes that Biden's campaign is gaining momentum, with the president conducting significant campaign events and delivering strong speeches, which some consider being among his ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
Future political and legal jeopardy facing Trump
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- The Boston Globe poll results indicate that Joe Biden would defeat Donald Trump in New Hampshire by an eight-point margin if the election were held at that time. This suggests a significant lead for Biden over Trump in that specific state. The margin reflects Biden's previous victory over Trump in the same region. The poll results provide insight into the current political landscape and the potential outcomes of a hypothetical election between Biden and Trump in New Hampshire.
- In the Republican presidential primary in New Hampshire, Trump leads with 46%, followed by Nikki Haley at 27%, and then Chris Christie and Ron DeSantis at 12% and 8%, respectively. This breakdown shows the current levels of support for each candidate among Republican voters in New Hampshire. The percentages indicate the relative popularity of each candidate in the primary race.
- The characterization of Trum ...
Counterarguments
- Trump's behavior in legal proceedings could be a strategic choice rather than an indication of fear.
- Court findings against Trump have been politically contentious, and some supporters believe they are part of a partisan attack rather than objective legal outcomes.
- Trump's base may not be swayed by allegations or previous court findings, as they may distrust the sources or consider them politically motivated.
- Polls can be inaccurate and may not fully capture the sentiment of the electorate, especially given historical instances where polls underestimated Trump's support.
- Trump's lead in the Republican primary in New Hampshire suggests he still has a strong base of support within the party.
- Voter opinions on alleged crimes may not significantly impact Trump's support due to deep political polarization and skepticism about the legal processes.
- Biden's campaign momentum could be overstated, and there may be underlying weaknesses not captured by public appearances and speeches.
- A two-point increase in polling is within the margin of error and may not indicate a significant trend.
- Descriptions of Trump ...
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