Episode 566: Fred & Rose West (Part 3)
In the latest episode of the Morbid podcast, Alaina Urquhart and Ash Kelley explore the disturbing crimes committed by serial killers Fred and Rose West. The hosts delve into the Wests' modus operandi, revealing how they preyed upon vulnerable individuals, particularly those with troubled backgrounds or unstable living situations.
Urquhart and Kelley recount the gruesome details of the Wests' torture and murder tactics, expressing disbelief at the depravity involved. They examine how the couple lured victims through feigned trust and existing relationships before subjecting them to unimaginable horrors, including dismemberment and restraint in a makeshift "torture chamber." As the episode unfolds, the hosts' visceral reactions underscore the heinous nature of these crimes.
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1-Page Summary
The Wests' Victims and Vulnerability
As Alaina Urquhart points out, the victims of Fred and Rose West often faced difficult upbringings, disrupted childhoods, and previous trauma - factors the Wests exploited. Many victims experienced dysfunctional homes, abuse, or unstable living conditions as children that left them emotionally vulnerable.
How the Wests Targeted Victims
The Wests frequently lured victims by offering rides or exploiting existing relationships. Fred would become a confidant to some girls before inviting them to the home. Juanita Mott, a former lodger, likely trusted them when they picked her up hitchhiking, as Urquhart describes.
The Wests' Gruesome Crimes
Victims were subjected to horrific torture and abuse before being killed. Some were dismembered, with bones kept as "trophies." Carol Cooper's remains revealed missing hand and foot bones. Urquhart notes victims were kept barely alive through restraints like a "tape mask with a tube in the nostril area."
Speaker Reactions
Ash Kelley and Alaina Urquhart express visceral horror, disgust, and disbelief at the depravity of the Wests' crimes. Kelley struggles to comprehend their apparent enjoyment from the suffering. Both lament the victims' vulnerable backgrounds contributing to the Wests preying on them.
1-Page Summary
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Fred and Rose West were British serial killers who committed a series of murders in the 1970s and 1980s. They targeted young women, often luring them to their home with promises of work or lodging before subjecting them to extreme torture and abuse. The victims were often dismembered, with some body parts kept as trophies. The Wests' crimes shocked the public due to the brutality and sadistic nature of their actions.
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The background and victims of Fred and Rosemary West
Carol Cooper, nicknamed Kaz, and other victims of Fred and Rose West faced difficult upbringings, as Alaina Urquhart points out. Their tendency to prey on vulnerable individuals with traumatic backgrounds is a somber thread in the tapestry of their heinous crimes.
The Wests' victims tended to come from troubled or dysfunctional backgrounds
Carol Cooper faced a disrupted childhood with her parents separating when she was four and her mother passing away when she was eight. Shirley Hubbard also had a difficult life, entering foster care after her parents separated. Shirley had been living with a foster family and experienced trouble, including running away, just a month before her disappearance. Alaina Urquhart observes that most victims came from "dysfunctional upbringings, like trauma upbringings," unknown detail further substantiates the victims' experiences of trauma, abuse, or unstable home lives as children. Juanita Mott, another victim, endured a rough childhood with her parents' divorce and left high school at 15, leading a nomadic life thereafter. Shirley Ann Robinson also came from a challenging background and had been in foster care multiple times. This pattern underlines how the Wests targeted individuals who were already struggling with life’s adversities.
Many of the victims had experienced trauma, abuse, or unstable home lives as children
The victims, like the 15-year-old Miss A, were often emotionally fragile, having suffered previous abuse. Miss A had been moved to protective care after being sexually abused by her father and brother. Carol Cooper's teenage rebellion, troubles with the law, and instances of running away reflect the vulnerability and emotional instability that the Wests exploited.
The Wests were known to local authorities but evaded suspicion for their crimes
While the Wests' home was frequently visited by the police for Fred’s minor legal issues, deeper investigations into the safety of the household were glaringly absent. Despite the children's interactions with Child Protective Services and foster care, along with Fred's criminal activities, law enforcement failed to suspect or uncover the grim reality within the Wests' household.
The police frequently visited their home for minor offenses but ne ...
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The background and victims of Fred and Rosemary West
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- The police frequently visited the Wests' home for minor offenses like petty thefts and minor drug offenses. Despite these interactions, deeper investigations into the safety of the household were lacking. This lack of thorough investigation allowed the Wests to continue their crimes undetected. The authorities were aware of the Wests for Fred's criminal activities, but they did not suspect the grim reality within their household.
- Societal biases and perceptions can influence how much attention and justice victims receive based on factors like their background, age, and circumstances. Media coverage and public interest may vary depending on the victim's demographics, leading to disparities in empathy an ...
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The details of the Wests' crimes and how they targeted and killed their victims
The true extent of the horrific crimes committed by Fred and Rose West is laid bare as we delve into the methods they used to target, abduct, and ultimately kill their victims.
The Wests would often offer rides or manipulate victims into coming to their home
Fred West had made a habit of offering rides to girls he saw on the street, utilizing this ruse to ensnare young victims. Juanita Mott, a previous lodger in the Wests' home, likely trusted them when they picked her up while she was hitchhiking. Similarly, the Wests leveraged their existing relationships with some of their victims, inviting ones who had rented from them or worked for them as a nanny into a perilous false sense of security.
They sometimes exploited their existing relationships with victims to lure them in
Fred West became a confidant for some girls, leading one victim, known as Miss A, to the West house after running away from school. In the case of Shirley Ann Robinson, who moved in with Fred and Rose and later became pregnant with Fred's child, the relationship turned deadly. Shirley's trusting relationship with the couple made her vulnerable to their gruesome designs.
The Wests used gruesome and sadistic methods to torture, rape, and murder their victims
Victims were often dismembered, with body parts kept as "trophies"
It is believed some victims, like Lucy, were held captive for as long as a week, during which time they were tortured and raped. Investigators discovered during excavations the presence of items such as a tape mask around the skull and ropes, along with evidence suggesting bones had been removed, implying that the Wests kept parts of their victims' bodies as macabre trophies. Carol Cooper's dismembered remains revealed a pattern of brutality, including missing hand and foot bones.
Fred West admitted to sustaining an injury while dismembering Lucy’s body, reinforcing the belief in the extreme violence used. The dissection of Shirley Ann Robinson's body was also notably vicious, including the unborn baby she carried at the time of her murder.
Some victims were ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
The details of the Wests' crimes and how they targeted and killed their victims
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Fred and Rose West subjected their victims to gruesome torture, including dismemberment and rape. They kept body parts as trophies and some victims were restrained and kept barely alive for ongoing abuse. The Wests' sadistic treatment involved prolonged suffering and calculated cruelty, showcasing their predatory and ruthless nature. Their crimes were marked by extreme violence and domination over their victims.
- The tape mask and ropes found during excavations were significant as they indicated the Wests' use of restraints and torture on their victims. These items suggest that the victims were subjected to prolonged and horrific forms of abuse while in captivity. The presence of such tools points to the sadistic nature of the crimes committed by Fred and Rose West. The discovery of these items provided crucial evidence of the extreme violence and control exerted by the Wests over their victims.
- Keeping victims barely alive for ongoing abuse is a disturbing tactic where perpetrators intentionally maintain their victims in a state of near-death, allowing them to suffer prolonged agony. This method involves restraining the victim to control their movements and keep them alive for further torment. Perpetrators may use various means like tape masks with breathing tubes to ensure the victim's survival while subjected to continued ...
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The speakers' reactions and emotional responses to the disturbing nature of the crimes
Ash Kelley and Alaina Urquhart express a strong emotional response to the heinous crimes committed by Fred and Rose West, filled with horror, sickness, and disbelief.
The speakers express visceral feelings of horror, sickness, and disbelief at the Wests' actions
Throughout their discussion, the speakers, particularly Ash Kelley, reveal their horror and disgust with expressions like "Oh my god," and strong reactions against euphemistic language used in court testimonies. They are appalled by the Wests’ actions, with one speaker describing Fred West as a "lying sack of fucking sewage." The speakers find themselves struggling to comprehend how the Wests could have found enjoyment in degrading and killing their victims. Ash Kelley states that their mind cannot understand how the Wests could have had fun while people were dying by their hands.
The speakers are disturbed by the Wests' apparent enjoyment and lack of empathy
Both speakers indicate that cases of this nature blow their minds and turn their stomachs, even with their history of discussing similar topics. The realization that Fred West killed and dismembered his own near-term baby, along with the mother, elicits a particularly strong reaction. Descriptions like finding a tape mask still around Carol Cooper's skull, bones missing from her hands and feet, and the Wests' use of their children to abduct victims suggest the speakers' perception of the perpetrators as taking gratification from their cruel actions. Alaina Urquhart speaks to the disturbance of seeing fear or sadness on someone's face, relating it to the Wests' seemingly complete lack of empathy and enjoyment from causing pain and fear.
The speakers note the frustration and sadness that the victims' difficult backgrounds may have contributed to their vulnerability
The speakers share a profound sadness and frustration over the victims' plights, especially as their difficult backgrounds may have contributed to their vulnerability. Alaina Urquhart notes how these backgrounds made the victims easy prey for the Wests and mourns the idea that some victims, due to their circumstances, were not looked for with the urgency and concern they deserved.
The speakers also convey ...
Here’s what you’ll find in our full summary
The speakers' reactions and emotional responses to the disturbing nature of the crimes
Additional Materials
Clarifications
- Fred and Rose West were a married couple in the UK who committed a series of horrific crimes, including multiple murders and sexual assaults, between the 1960s and 1980s. They targeted young women, including their own daughters, and buried their victims' bodies in and around their home in Gloucester. The extent of their depravity shocked the nation when their crimes were uncovered, revealing a pattern of extreme violence, abuse, and sadistic behavior. The Wests' case is considered one of the most infamous and disturbing criminal cases in British history.
- The speakers, Ash Kelley and Alaina Urquhart, express strong emotional responses to the heinous crimes committed by Fred and Rose West, including horror, sickness, and disbelief. They are deeply disturbed by the apparent enjoyment and lack of empathy displayed by the perpetrators, particularly in the face of extreme violence and degradation inflicted upon the victims. The speakers also express frustration and sadness over the victims' difficult backgrounds, which may have made them vulnerable to the Wests' crimes. Additionally, they lament the systemic failures that allowed the Wests to continue their atrocities unchecked for an extended period.
- The victims' difficult backgrounds, such as histories of abuse, poverty, or social isolation, made them more vulnerable to predators like Fred and Rose West. These vulnerabilities could have made it easier for the Wests to manipulate and control their victims, leading to tragic outcomes. Understanding the victims' backgrounds helps shed light on why they may have been targeted and why their disappearances were not immediately noticed or inve ...
Counterarguments
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